Tiki Dog,
I too like your post a lot.
cheers to you sir.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

bigtikidude
I think the thing that will kill surf music is the lack of the "Surf Fans" actually going to see the bands.

True! Jeff, your tireless energy for spreading the word is truly untouchable. I know I've told you this before, buti f there were only 200, 000 more surf fans like you we would be hearing surf on the radio right now. Cheers to you brother!

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bigtikidude

shivers13
so I'm interested in getting opinions why people call their music surf music and why they feel it needs to be updated or changed.
In my opinion Jazz is Jazz and Surf is Surf. I'm not hard-line about this, but when Surf Music goes too far out of the box I tend to not like it.

Why is changing or updating surf a bad thing, or "fixing something that isn't broke"?

Why is it ok to implement garage and fuzz, and still be "cool",
but if you add Psychedelic aspect to your sound, its too far?
and if so, why is the Satan's Pilgrims Psyche album ok.
but other Psyche surf bands "too out there"?
I'm puzzled by this to no end.

I love all the sub Genres of surf, and styles that get mixed in.
but I find that there are some that put certain year or style parameters on surf additions, and I can't understand who made these rules?

I actually like more of this than anyone here might expect. As I mentioned before I'm interested in other perspectives other than my own. Thus the reason for the thread.

Honest Question: Who is actually playing stuff that they consider way outside the box?

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bigtikidude
I don't know if he will chime in on this thread.
but Shantanu of DaiKaiju
http://www.myspace.com/daikaiju
will be the first to say that they really aren't a surf band,
But to me it still surfy enough that they are cool to post their cd, and show info on SG101.

though some would say they are a Prog rock, or metal, instro band.

You touch on another interesting thing. Many Surf-type bands say they're not Surf and some bands that call themselves Surf clearly aren't. It's quite puzzling to me as well. Who makes the rules, you ask? I find myself wondering that as well. Thus, the reason for this thread.

I listened to all the tracks on the Daikaiju link you posted. It was quite cool actually. Reminded me a bit of MOAM. To be honest though I would would not classify that as too far outside... and not psych either. It was pretty cool though.

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Some very good input in this thread. I'm too busy and preoccupied right now to put together anything coherent and thoughtful enough to warrant inclusion, but every time I check in here there are more well-argued and worthwhile points being made.

shivers13
Who is willing to give up the gear that's associated with the 60's surf sound??? You know... Reverb tanks, Showmans, Fender Guitars...raise your hands.

I am, absolutely!

And regarding your question of "Who considers themselves outside the box"; I don't think there are any bands who consider themselves surf but are outside the box. I think it is capable for a surf band to be outside of the box, but I dont' think we've seen that band.

bigtikidude

shivers13
so I'm interested in getting opinions why people call their music surf music and why they feel it needs to be updated or changed.
In my opinion Jazz is Jazz and Surf is Surf. I'm not hard-line about this, but when Surf Music goes too far out of the box I tend to not like it.

Why is changing or updating surf a bad thing, or "fixing something that isn't broke"?

Why is it ok to implement garage and fuzz, and still be "cool",
but if you add Psychedelic aspect to your sound, its too far?
and if so, why is the Satan's Pilgrims Psyche album ok.
but other Psyche surf bands "too out there"?
I'm puzzled by this to no end.

I love all the sub Genres of surf, and styles that get mixed in.
but I find that there are some that put certain year or style parameters on surf additions, and I can't understand who made these rules?

I also wonder about this.
If you say jazz is Jazz, there would have never been Jazz as we know it right now. Dixieland guys hated Charlie Parker. Other guys didn't like amplified guitars in jazz..so there never would have been Wes Montgomery, Barney Kessel, Grant Green...I don't want to miss these guys.

To define certain rules to a musical genre, it has to be totally over, dead and gone. You can say Sixties girl groups were like this and they had these elements in their music, because there weren't any vocal girl groups like the Ronettes and Crystals since the Sixties. But that doesn't mean you can't update this genre...it just hasn't happened so far.

No matter what musical style I played, there was always a guy coming up, saying: you can't do this. When I played jazz, I couldn't use a distortion pedal or a slide. When I played blues, it was too rocky or noisy. When I was in a country band, guys came up saying you play like a guy from Nashville, but you look like Metallica....well, I didn't. I had long hairs and tattoos, but there are other guys with long hair and tattoos ( for example the Allman Brothers)
When we started playing surf music, I still had long hair and everybody said, you sound metal. I cut my hair and put some grease in it and suddenly everybody heard Elvis, Brian Setzer and Gene Vincent in my style...they have been there before and I don't like Metal at all, but nobody said something about Rockabilly before...so I guess it's more the conception in the mind of someone watching me how it should be than what I actually do...
Long hair = metal
pompadour = rock'n roll
good guitar playing = not traditional enough

I find that very boring...The Mermen may look like hippies, but they do some music no one else has ever done...that's great!

About the euipment: I love vintage gear and think it's much better than new stuff, but there is also some pretty good new stuff. There's also a good test, if you really can hear old equipment: Record it and listen to it 5 weeks later. If you can't tell, if it's the old or new reverb, it's not THAT important...especially not for the audience.
Another thing about using the RIGHT stuff is that a lot of people start to sound the same...like in the eighties, when you either had the Ibanez/rack thing or the the strat/tube screamer thing...after ten guys doing the same, you think: Gimme a break!

@ dalibor: I don't think recording got worse...you have to compare the right things: oF course a Beatles record sounds better than a computer home demo, but you compare a high end studio with some crappy home recording.
Same with analogue versus digital. maybe some great recordings from the 50s and 60s sound better than today's productions, but if you compare budget recordings from the 80s with today, I have to say: For less money you can get a better sound. 20 years ago it just wasn't possible to record a good sounding record in your rehearsal room without spending tons of money...today it is possible. You can also get preamps, Mikes and other stuff for less money...which is great. If I record at home, I don't need 32 channel mixing desks, but a single Channel strip for under 1000 € is affordable and gets the same results...

I think we all should get out of the box we made ourselves comfortable in and not talk about the good old times too much...I think, if we could go back to the sixties, we all would shake our heads and and wonder, what living was like back then

Putting a label on surf music is like trying to put a label on art. You can paint a picture of a sea landscape using many types of brushes, paints, colors, and canvas. The bottom line is, it,s still a picture of a sea landscape. I think the same can be said about surf music.

Be careful following the masses. Sometimes the "M" is silent...........................

WhorehayRFB
I find most surf & garage tunes to be short & catchy. I find most psych tunes to be long & not catchy.

There's a pretty big difference between early garage psych and later acid casualty jammy psych.

That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.

CaptainSpringfield

WhorehayRFB
I find most surf & garage tunes to be short & catchy. I find most psych tunes to be long & not catchy.

There's a pretty big difference between early garage psych and later acid casualty jammy psych.

I would agree. And I would say that most of the psych surf stuff I have heard would fall into the latter category. I would also opine that the Pilgrims' CD would fall into the short & catchy category.

I recall hearing a band at the pier last summer that someone described as "psychedelic" but it sounded like Pearl Jam to me.

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