Muddslide
Joined: Mar 25, 2009
Posts: 76
Gypsy Caravan
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Posted on Oct 22 2010 07:57 PM
BillyBlastOff
Putting a label on surf music is like trying to put a label on art. You can paint a picture of a sea landscape using many types of brushes, paints, colors, and canvas. The bottom line is, it,s still a picture of a sea landscape. I think the same can be said about surf music.
This is what I was getting at when I said that, to me, surf music is a feeling and I can't list any/all criteria for what comprises surf music other than "I know it when I hear it."
Again, it is so subjective. It means different things to different people. Everyone has their individualized definition of what "surf" is and none can really be said to be objectively "wrong." We all apply our own opinions on the subject.
Also, I didn't mean to spin the thread OT into a discussion of recording techniques/audio quality.
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shivers13
Joined: Jul 29, 2009
Posts: 2605
Boss Angeles, CA
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Posted on Oct 22 2010 08:06 PM
Muddslide
Again, it is so subjective. It means different things to different people. Everyone has their individualized definition of what "surf" is and none can really be said to be objectively "wrong." We all apply our own opinions on the subject.
I think this is a fitting end to this thread. Now, let's all go grab a beer! What'ya say??
— BOSS FINK "R.P.M." available now from DOUBLE CROWN RECORDS!
www.facebook.com/BossFink
www.doublecrownrecords.com
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outsides
Joined: Jul 08, 2006
Posts: 460
NorCal
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Posted on Oct 22 2010 09:20 PM
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25309
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Oct 22 2010 09:30 PM
WhorehayRFB
bigtikidude
Why is it ok to implement garage and fuzz, and still be "cool",
but if you add Psychedelic aspect to your sound, its too far?
and if so, why is the Satan's Pilgrims Psyche album ok.
but other Psyche surf bands "too out there"?
I'm puzzled by this to no end.
I find most surf & garage tunes to be short & catchy. I find most psych tunes to be long & not catchy.
seems maybe you could be using the wrong map?
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25309
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Oct 22 2010 09:32 PM
SpaceFargo
I was thinking back to when Daikaiju came through socal a little while back. I was talking with a few people before the show when somebody pointed out Jim Frias. I was kind of blown away seeing this dude, who has been in the surf scene since "the good old days", come to see this very modern, high-energy band who sit on the border of not-surf. And the next day he was actually playing the sax with them! You're not going to see that anywhere else.
I forgot to post about that at the time.
so cool to See Jim diggin Daikaiju on monday,
then seeing him jam on 3 or so songs,
with them on tuesday night,
Norm, wish you could have seen that.
but it was Mon. and Tues. and in OC and Long Beach.
No way you would have ever come down for that.
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3732
tn
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Posted on Oct 22 2010 09:59 PM
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shivers13
Joined: Jul 29, 2009
Posts: 2605
Boss Angeles, CA
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Posted on Oct 22 2010 11:21 PM
Nah Ted, Kate was cool with me seeing Diakaiju, but she just didnt want me going on another man date with Jeff. 
— BOSS FINK "R.P.M." available now from DOUBLE CROWN RECORDS!
www.facebook.com/BossFink
www.doublecrownrecords.com
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Pappa_Surf
Joined: Oct 28, 2008
Posts: 671
Winnipeg, Canada
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Posted on Oct 23 2010 12:05 AM
For me, I have a fairly broad definition for what I'll consider Surf music. But satisfying a number of required elements of surf music isn't to me what surf music is.
Aside from the musical elements of surf music and to me just as important, is what surf music represents. Surf music to me, embodies the mid 60's southern California pop culture. I have a idealized version of what it was like in SoCal back then, and when I'm playing or listening to surf music, I'm transported there. Kustom Kars, tiki bars, hamburger stands, googie architecture, it goes on, and on. I love it!
I can't think of another genre of music that has the same effect on me.
— https://www.facebook.com/index.php?lh=9353f9155b5ff32e14c998495fd00da4&#!/rich.derksen.7
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Muddslide
Joined: Mar 25, 2009
Posts: 76
Gypsy Caravan
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Posted on Oct 23 2010 08:36 PM
Pappa_Surf
Aside from the musical elements of surf music and to me just as important, is what surf music represents. Surf music to me, embodies the mid 60's southern California pop culture. I have a idealized version of what it was like in SoCal back then, and when I'm playing or listening to surf music, I'm transported there. Kustom Kars, tiki bars, hamburger stands, googie architecture, it goes on, and on. I love it!
I can't think of another genre of music that has the same effect on me.
Pappa Surf, I am right there with you. Well spoken. This is a great encapsulation of what I was trying to say a while back.
I was born in 1968, so I missed the original wave of all the things I really hold dear. I have no shame in admitting I tend to immerse myself in nostalgia...nostalgia for a time I never experienced firsthand.
The vast majority of my music collection centers around the 1955-1965 era. And this is where most of my listening takes place.
I get the same great feeling from more recent bands who kind of mine similar territory but with unique twists...The Ghastly Ones, Satan's Pilgrims, The Bomboras, MoAM, The Mummies, etc. I am so glad those cats are around (or at least came around, even if they have left,) preserving the great elements of the original era while pushing boundaries and bringing it all to a new crowd.
I DO have affection for other eras of music --pre WW2 hot jazz, later 60s garage and psych rock, more modern/current (mostly instro) bands like Unwed Sailor, Mogwai, Grails, Earth...
And my other major love is for punk and new wave from around 1977-1984. I guess that is a kind of personal nostalgia for a time I was around for.
But nothing--nothing--resonates with me more than the first decade of rock and roll. I realize we live in a different world, but there is something about this time of music that makes me joyful.
It's the same with movies...the bulk of what I watch is 50s-60s horror and sci-fi fare. I have a huge collection of those types of films from that period.
I cannot explain why I am drawn to this time...the days of stomps and drive-in movies and early hot rods...except to say that it makes me feel good to "live" there in my head when I can. And surf/instro tunes from back then just do something to me.
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3545
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Oct 25 2010 10:57 AM
IvanP
... If we don't make captivating music that can connect with listeners, all the above will be for naught. I want surf musicians to be more ambitious, to set bigger goals for themselves, to really push themselves. I think that's our only hope...
this sentiment resonates deeply with me...i do believe Ivan has hit the nail squarely upon its head...
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3545
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Oct 25 2010 11:06 AM
to me, "surf" is absolutely unfinished business... the surface has barely been scratched. "surf" to me resides in the same realm as other great folk forms and idioms (ie: flamenco, blues, and even jazz)... as with any folk idiom, there exists a fine balance between wide commercial appeal versus such artistic considerations as heartfelt creativity and respect for the perimeters or boundaries of the form...
I dig how Wynton Marsalis is steadfast in his "purist" jazz outlook...it's definitely not everyone's bag, but he does enjoy measurable success. Likewise, I dig how Miles Davis never seemed to follow any conventions at all during some phases of his career...likewise he met with considerable "success"...
surf is unfinished and evolving...it grows, it contracts...it grows again...that may simply be part of it's inherent nature as an artform...
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WhorehayRFB
Joined: Jun 12, 2008
Posts: 3331
Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted on Oct 25 2010 11:38 AM
bigtikidude
WhorehayRFB
bigtikidude
Why is it ok to implement garage and fuzz, and still be "cool",
but if you add Psychedelic aspect to your sound, its too far?
and if so, why is the Satan's Pilgrims Psyche album ok.
but other Psyche surf bands "too out there"?
I'm puzzled by this to no end.
I find most surf & garage tunes to be short & catchy. I find most psych tunes to be long & not catchy.
seems maybe you could be using the wrong map?
Perhaps, but my intent was to explain why I am personally not crazy about the psych surf stuff.
— Radio Free Bakersfield--60 Minutes of TWANG, CRUNCH, OOMPH.
http://radiofreebakersfield.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Radio-Free-Bakersfield/172410279636
http://www.sandiegojoe.com/rfb.htm
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StratCat
Joined: Oct 25, 2010
Posts: 13
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Posted on Oct 25 2010 08:01 PM
For me I think the original surf music was classic and you can't take that away. They made music that reflected the times and how they were inspired. That being said, I have to say that I like to see the merging of different styles and someones own take on a certain genre. If after 50 years all the new surf bands never did anything different, I would get pretty bored. But maybe that just my small attention span ;-). There are some surf bands that are out now that have punk influences, reggae influences, etc. and since I like those other types of music as well I like to see them together. It makes the music unique, while still giving a shout out to the older generation.
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mr_pkgs
Joined: Jun 12, 2009
Posts: 13
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Posted on Oct 26 2010 02:15 PM
Ron, thanks for that post - great to see the story written out, though it was even more fun to hear it straight from the "vendor's" mouth - heh, heh. As for classifications, like "surf rock instrumental music", all are imperfect, I'm inclined to agree with what John Blair wrote in the liner notes of the Cowabunga CD compilation. I like to characterize the setlist we (Shark Biscuit) play as "Rock Instrumentals", which includes stuff like Sleepwalk, Sing, sing, sing, Apache, Last Night and The work song. When we do Pipeline, Wipeout, Mr. Moto, Miserlou, etc. we and our audience know we're doing surf rock instrumentals. But it's all good, and teens can dance and stomp to it all, and teens can play most of it.
I first encountered surf rock instrumental music when, as an 11-year-old (and a beginning guitarist) in northern Wisconsin I heard "Wipeout" on the AM radio. I didn't know what surfing was, didn't call it surf rock, but I liked it! And, I could play it!! When I first heard pipeline, I knew I would need more reverb, and was vaguely aware, from what the DJ's said, that this music was related somehow to that of the Beach Boys and Jan and Dean. And once I thought of Wipeout and Pipeline as "surf rock instrumental" tunes, it was obvious that, as with any music genre, CHANGE was happening, as is inevitable.
Are there any surf rock instrumentals that don't have a 4/4 or 2/2 time signature?
Is "Cobra" by Quicksilver Messenger Service surf rock? I think so, even though it is also psychadelic 60's guitar in the same tune.
It seems clear that surf rock doesn't have to have anything to do with surfing, other than maybe the title of the tune. I love reggae (shout out to The Shakers!) and it's just grand if some surfers love it best. But a reggae band plays reggae.
Mostly.
Ha!
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3732
tn
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Posted on Oct 26 2010 02:19 PM
mr_pkgs
I love reggae (shout out to The Shakers!) and it's just grand if some surfers love it best. But a reggae band plays reggae.
Mostly.
Ha!
When we started in the early 90s, we heard from more than one person that surf was just "white boy reggae".
— http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com
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Jagshark
Joined: Nov 05, 2008
Posts: 745
Colorado, home of The Astronauts
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Posted on Oct 26 2010 02:51 PM
I heard recently someone say surf music was the "white man's soul music".
— (defunct) Thee Jaguar Sharks
Plus! Other stuff not surf: https://soundcloud.com/jamesmileshq
Enjoy every minute
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elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
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Posted on Oct 26 2010 03:43 PM
Jagshark
I heard recently someone say surf music was the "white man's soul music".
Whoever said that is wrong. 
My reaction to reggae is the same as a lot of people (Not me!) react to Surf. After the second song, I want to hear something else.
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surferjoemusic
Joined: Jan 01, 2008
Posts: 2105
Livorno
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Posted on Oct 26 2010 03:53 PM
elreydlp
Jagshark
I heard recently someone say surf music was the "white man's soul music".
Whoever said that is wrong.
My reaction to reggae is the same as a lot of people (Not me!) react to Surf. After the second song, I want to hear something else.
Don't tell me... Ivan saw me playing reggae with a rasta guy at my house and he can describe my face after 2 min.
— Lorenzo "Surfer Joe" Valdambrini
(www.surfmusic.net)
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Tikitena
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Posts: 1540
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Posted on Oct 29 2010 09:30 PM
surferjoemusic
elreydlp
Jagshark
I heard recently someone say surf music was the "white man's soul music".
Whoever said that is wrong.
My reaction to reggae is the same as a lot of people (Not me!) react to Surf. After the second song, I want to hear something else.
Don't tell me... Ivan saw me playing reggae with a rasta guy at my house and he can describe my face after 2 min.
I love ska & rocksteady
— "Turn the knob to 10 and break it off!" -Baja Marty
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666turdcutter
Joined: Nov 05, 2010
Posts: 6
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Posted on Nov 05 2010 12:38 PM
I love surf music but what it lacks is movement.I mean all the surf bands I have seen just stand there and they are usually not much to look at.I think by moving around and creating something to look at it might bring move people to this type of music.Surf music is usually pretty cold as far as being much of a show.So come on and give something to talk about and stop being a bunch of dead cold fish on stage would ya!!
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