MLC
Joined: Jan 14, 2007
Posts: 86
Upstate New York
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Posted on Nov 12 2010 07:26 AM
bigtikidude
for the Record,
the Mermen have said that they are not a "surf band"
but they write Ocean Influenced music.
Fair enough - I do remember a quote to that effect, now that you mention it Jeff.
I guess in my mind I still classify them as "surf", although it's certainly a different flavor and nothing I would consider "traditional surf".
To be honest, if someone asked me to recommend some surf music, The Mermen wouldn't be the first name that would come to my mind. I might include them in the list, but only with a few caveats.
— Mark
There are no wrong notes, just some questionable choices.
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DNAdude
Joined: Aug 01, 2008
Posts: 404
North Carolina
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Posted on Nov 12 2010 07:34 AM
I only got into to surf a handful of years ago, and my real intro to it was Los Mel-Tones Surf Sensation and Somewhere in California by the Torquays. I went back and listened to a lot of the classics, but those two disks told me that people were still making this music - surf was still alive. In the beginning, I was all about a very traditional sound (and I still lean in that direction). But then I found surfguitatar101.com and I learned about The Madeira and Pollo Del Mar and a host of other groups, and I came to the conclusion that the surf box is a lot bigger than I thought it was at first.
The problem is that if you go too far outside the box, you run the risk of leaving the box behind entirely. So how far outside the box is too far? Who can say? (Well, obviously, the members of surfguitar101.com!) If something is surf influenced or has surf roots can you still call it surf? Depends on who you ask, I guess.
My thought, for whats it worth, is that, if you can trace a line back to the classic sound and feel, even if that line is wobbly and has a lot of curves in it, you can still call it surf.
One of the questions that always fascinates me is Is the song ___ surf? It depends on what you do with it. You can take a good surf song and suck the life out of it or you can take a song that no one thought of as being surf and turn it into surf. (I am not prepared to defend the statement that any song can be made surf  )
To me, in the end, there is a certain feel to surf, and I know it when I hear it, which it probably what it comes down to for everyone and still leaves us room to disagree and discuss to our heart's content
— Ralph
The Storm Surfers
Be at one with the universe. If you can't do that, at least be at one with your guitar.
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 12:41 AM
Reviving this old thread because it touches on some of the 'trash kultur' aesthetic that I love so much in surf music and related idioms.
When I was 18 a very conscientious friend (we'd call him PC nowadays) said my favorite rockabilly was crypto- or just plain fascist. I didn't understand how that was so. I guess he meant hillybilly white trash were all right wing or something - which sounds like 'reverse racism' or prejudice against southern whitetrash.
Out here in SoCal, surf resonates with all kinds of exoticism which have flourished out here since whites invaded. You know the name of California is itself orientalist, coined by a Spanish explorer from an early Spanish novel about a utopic oriental never-never land (Caliph-ornia). Mid XX c. dance bands picked up on the exotic vibe and blended in their Pachuko style, etc.
I'd like to hear more from cultural historians of surf. THis topic is very interesting.
spskins wrote:
tdsurf
Hasn't surf music been pretty much "family safe" all these years with almost no exceptions. Am I beginning to see a (disturbing) trend away from this aspect by blending Surf with alcohol, cursing, gore, racism, or violence etc?
td
While it is mostly instrumental music, didn't surf contain aspects of a lot of these things from it's inception? Off the top of my head...
Alcohol-"Intoxica", "Church Key", "The Inebriated Surfer" too many others to mention
Gore-are you talking monster/devil themed stuff or actual gore? Monster/devil stuff is of course another long list...
Cursing- well, if you're talking sexual innuendo "Shootin' Beavers", "Chunky"etc.
Racism- "Scalping Party", "Comanche", "Apache" any number of other exploitative titles involving American Indian, Hawaiian, Mexican/Latin American, Spanish, Arabic/Moorish, Asian cultures.
But hey, it was the early 60s. Kids playing cowboys and Indians was "family fun". California culture had a heavy Latino influence bubbling under the surface, and Hawaii was a new state full of "otherness" to be excited about. I don't really see this as out and out racism as much as curiosity and intrigue. Plus, a lot of the bands were all or part Latino.
Dad had a drink every night at 5 and probably kept going while teenagers and college kids were beer busting whenever they could.
The entire culture was extremely sexist and racist. Surfing as a sport was pretty racist, not allowing Hawaiian or other surfers who weren't lily white to compete or stay in the same motels with the white surfers for competitions.
If the modern examples of these are much different, please give them, I'm curious.
— Squink Out!
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SilverFlash
Joined: Jul 14, 2015
Posts: 478
Near Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 12:28 PM
JOBeast:
Reviving this old thread...
What a great old thread! Thanks for bringing it back to life, JOBeast. I just finished reading all of it from the beginning. I've been a member of sg101 for less than a year and I know there are more threads here than I will ever have time to read, but this one was very interesting. Now pardon me while I ignore your request for input regarding surf culture and highjack it for my own purposes.
What interests me is that it captures a perspective on the state of surf music circa 2010.
So, five years later, what has changed? I find it a very positive sign that many of the original posters are still very active on sg101's site and many have released excellent new albums since this thread originally ended in November 2010. It would be great to hear from some of them for their perspective 5 years later. Have things improved, worsened, or same old, same old?
Granted, I wasn't tapped into the surf scene during the feverish resurgence of the go-go Nineties, so maybe I take the current state for what it is and I'm just happy that it's still kicking. Personally, I'm pretty pleased with what I see and what I see are new bands from around the world releasing great material and identifying themselves as surf music bands. The Surfer Joe Festival is still going strong and the SurfGuitar101 convention will celebrate its 10th anniversary this year. The North Sea Surf Festival started in 2010 and North Sea Surf Radio launched in September 2013. Its playlists and excellent DJs are doing a fabulous job of promoting old and new music and providing education and history regarding surf. (Plus, I'm a big fan of NSSR's Top 101 and 66 lists.)
I'm lucky to live near Atlanta, Georgia and it will have it's second annual Southern Stomp Fest this year, plus we are blessed to have Chad Shivers and his monthly Southern Surf Stomps that are a great showcase for all the surf bands located in the Southeast. Austin, Texas has a lively surf music scene and just held its 3rd annual Surf By Surf East featuring surf rock from all over Texas.
I view all these as signs that surf is at least hanging on, and, I dare say, making some progress.
-Tim
— -Tim
MyYouTubeChannel
My Classic Instrumental Surf Music Timeline
SSS Agent #777
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19347
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 12:59 PM
Small correction, the SG101 convention started in 2008.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
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SilverFlash
Joined: Jul 14, 2015
Posts: 478
Near Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 01:18 PM
Small correction, the SG101 convention started in 2008.
 oops! 10th Anniversary of SG101 website . The convention is a couple of years younger, obviously, but both still going strong!
— -Tim
MyYouTubeChannel
My Classic Instrumental Surf Music Timeline
SSS Agent #777
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 01:38 PM
JObeast wrote:
Reviving this old thread because it touches on some of the 'trash kultur' aesthetic that I love so much in surf music and related idioms.
This is one of the things that bugs me, and which I why I stay away from that side of things. I do enjoy playing music for that scene though. We have nothing in common but they are good people!
My reason for that is because I feel it cheapens the music.
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 07:06 PM
No, Jake, it's Bad Music for Bad People.
— Squink Out!
Last edited: Mar 18, 2016 19:09:48
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 08:30 PM
Then we are thinking about two different things if you are equating the Cramps to trashy! Like your view of a hipster versus mine!
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Mar 18 2016 08:59 PM
Well, you live at the opposite, damp end of the Left Coast where the Dream of the Nineties is Still Alive. Things read differently through all the fog, rain and coffee. I live under the influence of Taco Trucks and Razabillies.
Cramps' influence has basically inverted prejudice against whitetrash: Cf. SCOTS. The visual culture of 'trash' has been making inroads into fine art and academia for decades now. Kustom Kar Kulture, Schlock Horror and Biker Movies are very fondly recalled, feeding the production of new iconography worldwide. The brutal and hyper-gendered visual attitudes of bands like Messer Chups are definitely part of the widening ripple of mid XX c. 'trash'.
— Squink Out!
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on Mar 19 2016 09:36 AM
Surf is a large enough parachute to cover all of us.
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25697
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 01:21 AM
SilverFlash wrote:
Small correction, the SG101 convention started in 2008.
oops! 10th Anniversary of SG101 website . The convention is a couple of years younger, obviously, but both still going strong!
This years convention will be the 9th.
But it will be a bigger line up.
And heavily celebrating the 10th anniversary of the website.
We will not be embarrassing Brian though. We already did that a few years back. Don't worry Brian. I promise.
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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Kawentzmann
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1062
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 01:53 AM
One of the unique and fundamental traits of Surf from the beginning was the search for new, exotic and uncharted territory.
— The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann
You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.
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Syndicateofsurf
Joined: Oct 08, 2014
Posts: 1073
Northern Ohio
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 06:39 AM
Kawentzmann wrote:
One of the unique and fundamental traits of Surf from the beginning was the search for new, exotic and uncharted territory.
That sounds like heresy.
— Da Vinci Flinglestein,
The quest for the Tone, the tone of the Quest
The Syndicate of Surf on YouTube
http://www.syndicateofsurf.com/
http://sharawaji.com/
http://surfrockradio.com/
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Kawentzmann
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1062
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 07:49 AM
Syndicateofsurf wrote:
Kawentzmann wrote:
One of the unique and fundamental traits of Surf from the beginning was the search for new, exotic and uncharted territory.
That sounds like heresy.
A touch of heresy is sure part of it, sure. But over time once rebellious and innovative cultures become occupied by minds that are not open and the kind of people who wouldn’t have attended when it was still young and cutting edge.
— The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann
You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 08:27 AM
Syndicateofsurf wrote:
That sounds like heresy.
An undisputed Surf classic: Misirlou.
A bunch of kids from SoCal playing Turkish folk tunes with reverb units cranked! It sounds new, exotic and uncharted all at the same time. There were (and are) no rules about what is brought to the genre.
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
Last edited: Mar 20, 2016 08:31:04
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 03:56 PM
No, the doors of surf ijtihad are closed; no innovation is allowed because it is indeed impious messin' with a good thing.
artdecade wrote:*
Syndicateofsurf wrote:
That sounds like heresy.
An undisputed Surf classic: Misirlou.
A bunch of kids from SoCal playing Turkish folk tunes with reverb units cranked! It sounds new, exotic and uncharted all at the same time. There were (and are) no rules about what is brought to the genre.
— Squink Out!
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 05:09 PM
JObeast wrote:
No, the doors of surf ijtihad are closed; no innovation is allowed...
YGBSM. Who's this omnipotent arbiter of what someone can create, or conversely decides they don't care for?
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 08:15 PM
Dude, it's called sardonic humor. OK, OK, I'll reopen the gates of surf ijtihad myself...
There, better?
Badger wrote:
JObeast wrote:
No, the doors of surf ijtihad are closed; no innovation is allowed...
YGBSM. Who's this omnipotent arbiter of what someone can create, or conversely decides they don't care for?
— Squink Out!
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CreepBeat
Joined: Feb 25, 2016
Posts: 242
Seattle, WA
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 08:29 PM
Oh great, THANKS JOBeast. Now we get to hear Electronic Christian Disco Glockenspiel Surf. 
— Skins for The Delstroyers
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