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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Music General Discussion »

Permalink Surf Music... why change what ain't broke?

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666turdcutter
I love surf music but what it lacks is movement.I mean all the surf bands I have seen just stand there and they are usually not much to look at.I think by moving around and creating something to look at it might bring move people to this type of music.Surf music is usually pretty cold as far as being much of a show.So come on and give something to talk about and stop being a bunch of dead cold fish on stage would ya!!

I personally don't care if a band doesn't move, as long as the music is good enough. If the music is good enough that creates enough energy in the room. Some bands need to move around more to prove that they are feeling the music or at least create a false sense of energy in the music. When I think of the bands I really enjoy, none of them are exactly active on stage, but when I've seen them live they absolutely destroy, and they do that with having energy and feeling in their music.

JakeDobner
I personally don't care if a band doesn't move, as long as the music is good enough. If the music is good enough that creates enough energy in the room. Some bands need to move around more to prove that they are feeling the music or at least create a false sense of energy in the music. When I think of the bands I really enjoy, none of them are exactly active on stage, but when I've seen them live they absolutely destroy, and they do that with having energy and feeling in their music.

Very well said! I concur completely.

Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook

One could say all music has been done as well as it'll ever be done. And when playing a "classic" style, the originals will always have a certain cache' to them.

What I like to do is keep the spirit of surf (or melodic guitar instrumentals if you will) and give it an edge that is indicative of the times. I feel that's both respectful and progressive. But it's also subjective.

Personally, I like it when bands move around a bit, maybe pull off some synchronized moves, and maybe even go with a shtick like costumes, capes, masks or smoking volcanoes. Having said that - if the music's good enough, then a lack of moves on stage won't make me not like the band.

JakeDobner

666turdcutter
I love surf music but what it lacks is movement.I mean all the surf bands I have seen just stand there and they are usually not much to look at.I think by moving around and creating something to look at it might bring move people to this type of music.Surf music is usually pretty cold as far as being much of a show.So come on and give something to talk about and stop being a bunch of dead cold fish on stage would ya!!

I personally don't care if a band doesn't move, as long as the music is good enough. If the music is good enough that creates enough energy in the room. Some bands need to move around more to prove that they are feeling the music or at least create a false sense of energy in the music. When I think of the bands I really enjoy, none of them are exactly active on stage, but when I've seen them live they absolutely destroy, and they do that with having energy and feeling in their music.

Sean
Double Crown Records
www.doublecrownrecords.com


Surf CD's / Vinyl / Fanzines / DVD's
The Desolate Coast - Without A Planet CD
Hipbone Slim aka Sir Bald - Wiggin' Out With CD
Continental Magazine - Issue #36 w/21 Song CD

Klas
I think there has been quite a lot of "change" in the scene over the past years and when someone like Ivan says he's really worried for the future, one has to wonder if there has simply been too much change. Today, I can only think of a handful trad surf bands that are still active, releasing albums and writing their own material while there seem to be way more bands out there constantly pushing all sorts of boundaries.

Thank god for or whatever for the change.Only the old and lazy stay the same.Only a few of these bands are left because people change as they grow older and as there lives change around them.I got into surf music because of a few bands I saw and got me and my friends interested.So let things grow and change and run their course.Stop worrying about where music goes and get on with your lives.If you want to stay the same great and if not great,WHO CARES!! Do some of you not have anything else going on in your lives but to talk about surf music is headed? If not I can give you something to think about.We can start with working on your guitar tone that sounds like a freakin ice pick in the ears of your listeners.

Thanks and happy surfing

666turdcutter
Stop worrying about where music goes and get on with your lives.If you want to stay the same great and if not great,WHO CARES!! Do some of you not have anything else going on in your lives but to talk about surf music is headed?

Please don't lecture us on what we find interesting to talk about. Surf music and where it is going is a very interesting topic to those of us who care about the music. If you don't care, then don't post in this thread.

With a post like that and your username, I can't help but think you are just trolling.

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me

"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea

666turdcutter
Thank god for or whatever for the change.Only the old and lazy stay the same.Only a few of these bands are left because people change as they grow older and as there lives change around them.I got into surf music because of a few bands I saw and got me and my friends interested.So let things grow and change and run their course.Stop worrying about where music goes and get on with your lives.If you want to stay the same great and if not great,WHO CARES!! Do some of you not have anything else going on in your lives but to talk about surf music is headed? If not I can give you something to think about.We can start with working on your guitar tone that sounds like a freakin ice pick in the ears of your listeners.

Could you translate that into English please?

I've never understood that whole infatuation with "development of a genre", just like everyone playing surf music is working in this big surf music company that needs to grow.

Every surf-band to themselves! If you like to do a Pipeline type of gimmick, fine! If you want to play metal with surf influences, fine. If you want to play theatrical ocean blues with digital reverb, fine! You play what you like and that's how you go about it.

It's not like surf music matters to most people anyway. It's niche music, and it won't set any new standards for the development of musical culture in a global perspective or anything like that. It's pretty much non-linear. Things doesn't happen in a developmental line. Whoever plays surf music do it because they want to do it, not because they want to develop a genre.

As to what goes on with a single band I can only speak for myself. Bands do definitely change. Sometimes you grow tired of certain songs, you want to incorporate more of this, you want to add some different instruments, maybe you've been influenced by a certain style of writing songs, or you bought a new guitar or amp that responds differently than the one you had already. Then over the years there might be changes. Slight ones or bigger ones. Young bands tend to change more though, simply because they may not be at the definite point of their development when they're 20.
It takes time for a band to develop identity. That doesn't happen automatically overnight. For us (the Mobsmen) we've played what we liked all along. That's our main focus. On the other hand we've been through a lot of different songs that might differ in style. They're all what most people would label typical surf music 63-64 style though (lately we even started to sniff some more 1965 style material as well yikes!). But with songs like El Gato, Pow Wow, Storm Surf who all are very different even though they're geographically and culturally from the same place, there's a lot of versatility in the music itself.

That's why I never bought into that whole trad vs prog-discussion. It's not relevant. Trad isn't necessarily trad. Prog surf isn't necessarily very progressive. 90s prog surf has become a pretty non-linear closed genre in itself already.

I prefer 60s surf BECAUSE it's very progressive and versatile in nature. Maybe there's not a whole lot of reggae, metal, digital reverb or Marshall-like distortion, but there's a whole lot more to set your teeth in.

guitarist, The Mobsmen

If you dont want me on here then please tell me or are you gonna close me off from the sight because I have an opinion that doesnt match yours? BY the way I like this guys answer.

Wavy
I've never understood that whole infatuation with "development of a genre", just like everyone playing surf music is working in this big surf music company that needs to grow.

Every surf-band to themselves! If you like to do a Pipeline type of gimmick, fine! If you want to play metal with surf influences, fine. If you want to play theatrical ocean blues with digital reverb, fine! You play what you like and that's how you go about it.

It's not like surf music matters to most people anyway. It's niche music, and it won't set any new standards for the development of musical culture in a global perspective or anything like that. It's pretty much non-linear. Things doesn't happen in a developmental line. Whoever plays surf music do it because they want to do it, not because they want to develop a genre.

As to what goes on with a single band I can only speak for myself. Bands do definitely change. Sometimes you grow tired of certain songs, you want to incorporate more of this, you want to add some different instruments, maybe you've been influenced by a certain style of writing songs, or you bought a new guitar or amp that responds differently than the one you had already. Then over the years there might be changes. Slight ones or bigger ones. Young bands tend to change more though, simply because they may not be at the definite point of their development when they're 20.
It takes time for a band to develop identity. That doesn't happen automatically overnight. For us (the Mobsmen) we've played what we liked all along. That's our main focus. On the other hand we've been through a lot of different songs that might differ in style. They're all what most people would label typical surf music 63-64 style though (lately we even started to sniff some more 1965 style material as well yikes!). But with songs like El Gato, Pow Wow, Storm Surf who all are very different even though they're geographically and culturally from the same place, there's a lot of versatility in the music itself.

That's why I never bought into that whole trad vs prog-discussion. It's not relevant. Trad isn't necessarily trad. Prog surf isn't necessarily very progressive. 90s prog surf has become a pretty non-linear closed genre in itself already.

I prefer 60s surf BECAUSE it's very progressive and versatile in nature. Maybe there's not a whole lot of reggae, metal, digital reverb or Marshall-like distortion, but there's a whole lot more to set your teeth in.

Great post!!

Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook

666turdcutter
If you dont want me on here then please tell me or are you gonna close me off from the sight because I have an opinion that doesnt match yours? BY the way I like this guys answer.

You can have your opinion but essentially telling people they have no life for talking about this stuff was kind of uncalled for.

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me

"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea

Brian

666turdcutter
If you dont want me on here then please tell me or are you gonna close me off from the sight because I have an opinion that doesnt match yours? BY the way I like this guys answer.

You can have your opinion but essentially telling people they have no life for talking about this stuff was kind of uncalled for.

Especially given the fact that this forum exists for the purpose of discussing surf music!

http://www.reverbnation.com/thedeadranchhands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZEW74mHjQk

Wavy
If you want to play theatrical ocean blues with digital reverb, fine!

I have never heard it described that way before, but I know exactly what you are describing. Brilliant.

The Mobsmen CD is one of my favorite surf cds of the past few years.

The Exotics 1994-Current
The Chickenshack - www.wmse.org
www.thedoghouseflowers.com
www.uptownsavages.com

jp
The Mobsmen CD is one of my favorite surf cds of the past few years.

Same here!

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me

"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea

Wavy
If you want to play theatrical ocean blues with digital reverb, fine!

I love it - that more or less describes one of my favorite bands...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ryPmy8wKM

And I link that for a few reasons:
1) I've read (here and elsewhere) that what the Mermen do isn't really surf and they wander too far "outside the box", but I've never understood those statements.
To me, they ARE surf.
I mean, in it's original form, surf music was supposed to reflect the experience of a surfer - the power of the waves, the thrill of the ride, etc. And I can't imagine music that does that to the extent that The Mermen do. But that's just me.

2) I just read about Jim Thomas' rig in Guitar Player magazine. I think he could fly a starship with all the gear he's got. I don't even understand how he can keep track of it all while he's playing, yet he incorporates it all seamlessly into what he does. The "digital reverb" comment immediately brought that GP article to mind.

3) Relative to the discussion at hand, I think The Mermen present the side of the argument that says it's OK to take the core elements of surf music (whatever those are) and then twist and stretch those elements into a style that is unique and all your own, yet still honors and is true to the genre.

For me, I can listen to The Mermen, then put on a Slacktone album, then some , and then play "The Birth of Surf" and it's ALL great and it ALL sounds pretty dang "surf-y" to these ears.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not really worried about the future of surf music. Tastes change and styles go in and out of fashion and that's not going to stop. But I see bands like The Mermen, and The Eliminators, and Satan's Pilgrims, and Daikaiju, and The Space Rangers, the list goes on and on..., and they're all taking "surf music" in their own direction, but I don't see that as diluting the original 60's-style spirit of the genre. I see it as enriching and expanding the genre.
As others have said, if it all sounded like 'The Original Sufaris', I'd get bored pretty quickly. Don't misinterpret - I love The Original Sufaris, I just don't need every surf band today to follow in their exact footsteps.
To me, it really is 'all good'.

...and
4) I just like The Mermen, so this was a good excuse to play some of their UTOOB stuff and I figured I'd post the link for anyone else who might share my interest. Cool

Mark

There are no wrong notes, just some questionable choices.

Last edited: Nov 11, 2010 13:41:57

MLC
As others have said, if it all sounded like 'The Original Sufaris', I'd get bored pretty quickly. Don't misinterpret - I love The Original Sufaris, I just don't need every surf band today to follow in their exact footsteps.
To me, it really is 'all good'.

If there's a modern band that sounds like the Original Surfaris I'd love to hear them Very Happy

guitarist, The Mobsmen

Wavy
On the other hand we've been through a lot of different songs that might differ in style. They're all what most people would label typical surf music 63-64 style though (lately we even started to sniff some more 1965 style material as well yikes!). But with songs like El Gato, Pow Wow, Storm Surf who all are very different even though they're geographically and culturally from the same place, there's a lot of versatility in the music itself.

That's why I never bought into that whole trad vs prog-discussion. It's not relevant. Trad isn't necessarily trad. Prog surf isn't necessarily very progressive. 90s prog surf has become a pretty non-linear closed genre in itself already.

I prefer 60s surf BECAUSE it's very progressive and versatile in nature. Maybe there's not a whole lot of reggae, metal, digital reverb or Marshall-like distortion, but there's a whole lot more to set your teeth in.

Wavy, I think this is DEAD ON! Especially the part that I put into bold. That's the thing that strikes me the most - the sixties surf music was highly progressive and highly diverse. Some trad bands seem to have a very narrow perspective on what surf is, which isn't supported by the variety of sounds around at that point.

This is why in my mind I differentiate between evolutionary progressive surf music and revolutionary progressive surf music. It's probably stupid to apply these terms, but what I'm getting at is the following: some bands naturally build on the progress that surf music made in the '60s, while others introduce outside influences in a more self-conscious way (the Mermen being a great example of that). I can appreciate it all, but my preference is for the evolutionary progressive surf music, the bands that build up the genre from within, without bringing in explicit modern influences. That's what I've strived to do with both the Cossacks and the Madeira - build on things like the Atlantics, Ventures in Space, the Fender IV, and some of DD's more exotic and hard-hitting stuff. In my mind both of my bands are/were basically trad bands for this reason - but that doesn't mean we have to be derivative!

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Great narrative Ivan, and with regards to your goal with The Space Cossacks and The Madeira, you have succeeded. Keep it up!

for the Record,
the Mermen have said that they are not a "surf band"
but they write Ocean Influenced music.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Ron-Rhoades
This is a very interesting thread...i grew up in California during the 60's, mostly Northern and Central Coast...like a lot of beach towns we had a "ballroom" where most, if not all, traveling bands from back then performed and of course that would include all the "surf" bands...to us kids surf music went with riding waves...that's what we did and that's what we listened to as much as we could...it was "our" music before the beach movies made it popular to the masses which was ok too and i'm glad the guys that wrote the hits got paid for their endeavors.
I've lived on a very small Island for the past 20 years and had a great career playing reggae music...i then became a "utility" musician playing mostly what people wanted to hear i.e. rock, blues, R&B, soul, oldies etc. and when a band i was in got fired at the resort we were working in i went to the Hotel manager and pleaded my case to keep my "job" as an entertainer...when i asked what kind of music he wanted he replied "if i had my way, i would have a surf band in our Lounge"...i said "do you mean Jan and Dean and The Beach Boys and all that stuff?" he said "no, Los Straightjackets"...i said "who the heck is that??" he said "come back tomorrow and i'll give you some of their music." The next day he hands me two CD's of their music and basically says "if you like this and can play music like this then you can keep your job....let me know" So i'm listening to this stuff on my way home and i'm like YESSSS!!! I can do this! The first thing that occured to me was "this is NOT surf music" the guy doesn't know what he's talking about but it was instrumental music that had a surf vibe on some of the tracks much like The Ventures music only modern sounding. I called him back the next day and said i could put a band together to play surf music if that's what he wanted...he said "you've got two weeks before you start...can you do it?" I lied and said "yes, of course i can do it"...i needed that, and ALL my gigs to pay my rent and put food on the table so i set out to find the guys that have become The TakeOffs and got together as much "surf" instrumental music as we could. We learned maybe 40 songs in that two weeks...that's when it came up for us...what IS surf music? Well, "Pipeline" and "Miserlou" and...and...oh yeah, "Baja" and "Penetration" and we spent a lot of time trying to define what was surf music and what wasn't...our bottom line was making the Hotel guy happy which would get us the job which would make US happy!! We didn't have, nor could find enough "surf" music to pull it off so we had to get creative which meant finding and doing some instrumental classics like Duane Eddy and some of those guys' music too, which we did...we got it together and learned all these 2 minute songs and had enough to fill 3 hours...it was a lot of work!! I almost gave up at one point...15/20 songs a set!! We'll never get enough, but we eventually did. The music was all over the place...ha ha!!...we had a bunch of surf music "hits" and classics and we had instrumental "oldies" and we had The Ventures and Los Straightjackets which made the Hotel guy very happy...he was really excited on our first night...we were terrified trying to remember all that stuff!! ha! A lot of the time we knew the song but forgot who the fricken original artist was!! ha ha! or, we knew the melody but forgot what the song was called!! So we stumbled around for a while but i got us the gig!! Next, we all went on a mission to get as much traditional and contemporary "surf" music as we could find...funny how much of that stuff our friends had burried in a closet!! We started learning all kinds of stuff from a huge variety of instrumental bands...we had and still have heated discussions about what is "surf" music and what aint!! The interesting thing about us is we haven't been influenced by going to see other surf bands...there aren't any!!...I recall one night not that long after we had become a "surf band", a big tourist guy aproached me and asked if we had ever heard of a website called "surf guitar 101"...the other guys pointed him out to me cause i'm the only one that had a computer...i said "no" and he wrote the URL down on a napkin i think it was...ha!! I remember this so clearly now all these years later...the guy turned out to be Jeff Hansons father!! Sitting with his wife and digging the tunes!! When i got home that night i looked up the website and it opened a huge door for me/us to get to surf music...what it was, what it is, and all the rest...i'd never been part of a forum before so it was an exciting new thing...after a while i realized that we weren't what the surf community would call a surf band...we didn't have outboard reverb tanks or Fender Showmans or any vintage equipment to "recreate" that sound that surf purists would call "surf"...heck we were doing Los Straitjackets and Duane Eddy and Bill Justice and The Ventures!! Hardly surf music...but to me, and i think the other guys too, if it feels like surf music then maybe it is...if it fits in with the handfull of surf music that was popular in the early 60's then maybe it is...there's been recent discussion here about Peter Green's "Albatross" which isn't a "surf" tune but if we did it standing out there next to the beach with the waves breaking, the tanks blazing and the sun setting behind us then i believe that version of it could be considered a "surf" tune...who's to say it's not? I think surf music is a tone, a vibe and a certain finesse as a guitar player to make it so...i'm very proud of myself and the other guys for pulling it off every week for over five years now and i would consider The TakeOffs surf musicians that play surf music.
For the record...the "guy" that hired me to do this left about three years ago!! I'm what's considered a "vendor"...i supply them with a certain product...yes, like the seafood guy and the flower girl and the napkins and on and on...We're still friends...he calls that first meeting an "argument" but he's proud of us too for pulling it off...i do believe that he thought we would fail.
Aloha,
R-R
Cool Very Happy Cool Very Happy

RR, I remember that night at the "POINT" watching you guys play indoors and taking small video clips to show Jeff and ask him if he ever heard of you.
My wife and I have been coming to Kauai since 1996 and been there 20 times. The next year you were playing outside and we were with friends at the show,
You gave me a CDR of the TakeOffs songs to bring home to Jeff. I'm glad I gave you a heads up for SG101. You got a lot better, but had a stand in bass player for some reason. You gotta make it to the next SG101 convention.

Norm; Living with Jeff in the house, SURF music is whatever he's playing out of his vast collection of 5-6000 CD's. Lately it's the "SpaceRangers" with a little spaghetti Western thrown in.

Craig the Keg.

Hodad makin' the scene with a six pack.

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