Just one quick point: I definitely don't want music to be 'popular.' I'm perfectly OK with it being an underground genre (though maybe not quite underground to the degree it is now!). But what I'm not OK with is the genre becoming ossified, getting stale, which i what I fear now. I want things to be shaken up every once in a while, and maybe it's good to have bands where we can have arguments whether they're still playing surf music or not.

I think it's important for any band that considers itself a surf band to know and understand the history of surf music, at least to some extent. As the old adage goes, you've gotta know the rules before you can break them. My opinion is that the tools of surf music, which of course dictate the sound of a band, should remain basically the same - that is really one of the most basic things that identifies surf music as what it is. But if you have those sounds, there's a whole world of possibilities with one's songwriting and one's presentation and imagery. That's where personal creativity can and should blossom.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

I, for one, hope that surf music continues to evolve and bring in other influences. I'm not too worried about the music's survival because in order for it to grow, you might need to let go a bit. If you're only interested in a specific lineage of surf; fine. Different people want different things from music.

Break beats? I don't know. I guess I'd have to hear it first, but I'm not going to say it shouldn't be done.

I'm very excited with the future of surf-influenced music actually. There is an entire world of instrumental music out there that is simply engrossing. For me that doesn't require a prescriptive type of surf music. Bands like Diminished Men and players like Sir Richard Bishop have set a new standard for me as far as what is possible in an instrumental context with surf influences/basis/sounds/etc.

Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook

IvanP
...but they have to actually release a CD. A great deal of potential there, fantastic musicianship and great songwriting. But how do young guys like that put enough money together for a CD release? The reason the Space Cossacks were able to do it at that age (or a bit older) was that there was a label willing to pick up the costs of recording. Where are those labels today? Non-existent.

Well, this hits on music in general--all genres. CD sales are down across the board and across the globe. Younger kids will soon be saying "Daddy, what's a CD?" just like they did with vinyl albums a few years after the advent of the disc.

So many people (and I suspect a vast majority of people under a certain age) procure their music in the form of mp3s or other files, obtained either from places like iTunes or from illegal downloads. Or direct from artists' websites. Labels are falling by the wayside left and right...but in a way this presents opportunities for small, niche labels as well as totally independent bands.

It also represents a new business model that can be seen as a real positive on some levels: because of the internet and the ease of desktop recording, it has never in history been more simple and cheap for an artist or band to record, produce, advertise and distribute their music.

If you have a decent computer, you can literally have your own studio for next to nothing. I believe I have spent less than $100 to be able to multitrack record and have an entire bank of virtual guitar effects, amp modelers, etc. (though I still use some analog pedals and I also still record to tape pretty regularly.)

Now, this does present a problem if you want to avoid digital. There's nothing like recording through vintage equipment onto big old tape like back in the day, but that can be prohibitively expensive and tough to schedule, etc. In the end, though, if you are releasing a CD or putting your songs up on a website, the end product is going to be digitized anyway.

I don't think anyone can completely foresee where the "Music Business" or music industry is headed, but it really is a banner time to be a DIY act. Record on the computer, upload song samples on the computer, advertise your music on sites where there may be a built-in audience, book your own small regional tours and play locally as much as possible. Pressing up 1000 or 2500 CDs isn't really that terribly expensive, especially if you have 4 or 5 band members chipping in. Ditto with things like t-shirts and stickers and such. People love that kind of swag.

It may well be that the days are over when a major label goes hunting for talent then gives them loads of money and sends them on huge tours and promotes the hell out of them (unless it's something with real mass-appeal like Lady Gaga or Black Eyed Peas or some of that crappy New Nashville pop-country), but I personally feel like that can be a good thing for musicians in general. Perhaps not in the sense of being hugely rich and famous (only a handful of artists ever reach that point anyway, and how many surf/instro bands ever did?)

If your motivation, however, is to play good music and find a little fan base and be able to get your music into the hands of those "in the know" and who appreciate what you are doing, and be able to play live, maybe even make a humble living at it, it's a great time to do it and be master of your own product, schedule and destiny.

Just my 2 cents.

Muddslide

IvanP

Klas
...but they have to actually release a CD. A great deal of potential there, fantastic musicianship and great songwriting. But how do young guys like that put enough money together for a CD release? The reason the Space Cossacks were able to do it at that age (or a bit older) was that there was a label willing to pick up the costs of recording. Where are those labels today? Non-existent.

Well, this hits on music in general--all genres. CD sales are down across the board and across the globe. Younger kids will soon be saying "Daddy, what's a CD?" just like they did with vinyl albums a few years after the advent of the disc.

So many people (and I suspect a vast majority of people under a certain age) procure their music in the form of mp3s or other files, obtained either from places like iTunes or from illegal downloads. Or direct from artists' websites. Labels are falling by the wayside left and right...but in a way this presents opportunities for small, niche labels as well as totally independent bands.

It also represents a new business model that can be seen as a real positive on some levels: because of the internet and the ease of desktop recording, it has never in history been more simple and cheap for an artist or band to record, produce, advertise and distribute their music.

If you have a decent computer, you can literally have your own studio for next to nothing. I believe I have spent less than $100 to be able to multitrack record and have an entire bank of virtual guitar effects, amp modelers, etc. (though I still use some analog pedals and I also still record to tape pretty regularly.)

Now, this does present a problem if you want to avoid digital. There's nothing like recording through vintage equipment onto big old tape like back in the day, but that can be prohibitively expensive and tough to schedule, etc. In the end, though, if you are releasing a CD or putting your songs up on a website, the end product is going to be digitized anyway.

I don't think anyone can completely foresee where the "Music Business" or music industry is headed, but it really is a banner time to be a DIY act. Record on the computer, upload song samples on the computer, advertise your music on sites where there may be a built-in audience, book your own small regional tours and play locally as much as possible. Pressing up 1000 or 2500 CDs isn't really that terribly expensive, especially if you have 4 or 5 band members chipping in. Ditto with things like t-shirts and stickers and such. People love that kind of swag.

It may well be that the days are over when a major label goes hunting for talent then gives them loads of money and sends them on huge tours and promotes the hell out of them (unless it's something with real mass-appeal like Lady Gaga or Black Eyed Peas or some of that crappy New Nashville pop-country), but I personally feel like that can be a good thing for musicians in general. Perhaps not in the sense of being hugely rich and famous (only a handful of artists ever reach that point anyway, and how many surf/instro bands ever did?)

If your motivation, however, is to play good music and find a little fan base and be able to get your music into the hands of those "in the know" and who appreciate what you are doing, and be able to play live, maybe even make a humble living at it, it's a great time to do it and be master of your own product, schedule and destiny.

Just my 2 cents.

2 cents very well spent. I agree with the things you say. This is one big change in today's music, but this touches any music genre. And it is more and more difficult to understand how to apply the "old" copyright rules.

Again it is the attitude that each band has, the fans following the community, the popularity of the genre... there is combination of factors.

Lorenzo "Surfer Joe" Valdambrini
(www.surfmusic.net)

da-ron

a major label goes hunting for talent then gives them loads of money and sends them on huge tours and promotes the hell out of them

This is one of the greatest myths around. A record company loans the band the money for tours, promotion, recording, printing and distribution. If the band don't make this money back, they can be in an awful lot of debt, and don't make any money until the debt is cleared.

You are 100% correct. I just didn't want to take up more space with my ramble going into this issue. However, this is all the MORE reason why people need to adopt a DIY ethic and not hope to "get signed, duuuude!"

Making cd's and recording a band is easier than ever, but distribution is much more difficult with the demise of independent record shops. Digital downloads are obviously the future (not all of them are illegal) but we haven't got the model quite right yet. Looking to the record industry for an answer is pointless - who would have thought the most successful music distribution (iTunes) would be set up by a computer company, Apple?

Again, I agree. I think the best way to distribute these days is, by necessity, small scale. Selling on a band website, selling at shows, maybe consigning CDs to local shops (thankfully where I live the indie record shop is still thriving, but I know it's not like that everywhere.)

It's tough and uncertain. I'm certainly not claiming to have any special knowledge or the "answers" to these issues.

surferjoemusic

Muddslide

Klas
...but they have to actually release a CD. A great deal of potential there, fantastic musicianship and great songwriting. But how do young guys like that put enough money together for a CD release? The reason the Space Cossacks were able to do it at that age (or a bit older) was that there was a label willing to pick up the costs of recording. Where are those labels today? Non-existent.

It also represents a new business model that can be seen as a real positive on some levels: because of the internet and the ease of desktop recording, it has never in history been more simple and cheap for an artist or band to record, produce, advertise and distribute their music.

If you have a decent computer, you can literally have your own studio for next to nothing. I believe I have spent less than $100 to be able to multitrack record and have an entire bank of virtual guitar effects, amp modelers, etc. (though I still use some analog pedals and I also still record to tape pretty regularly.)

Now, this does present a problem if you want to avoid digital. There's nothing like recording through vintage equipment onto big old tape like back in the day, but that can be prohibitively expensive and tough to schedule, etc. In the end, though, if you are releasing a CD or putting your songs up on a website, the end product is going to be digitized anyway.

well, sorry, I don't think that desktop recording comes even close to professional studio recording. This is one of the things that manufacturers of various amp plugins want us to believe. Difference in quality is huge and I'm not even talking about tape or digital. I'm talking about space, real instruments, expensive mics, preamps and quality mixing board. You can't emulate this. And these things cost huge amount of money. This is where DIY concept loose battle with record company. Maybe out of topic but I had to say this....

Muddslide

Dalibor
well, sorry, I don't think that desktop recording comes even close to professional studio recording. This is one of the things that manufacturers of various amp plugins want us to believe. Difference in quality is huge and I'm not even talking about tape or digital. I'm talking about space, real instruments, expensive mics, preamps and quality mixing board. You can't emulate this. And these things cost huge amount of money. This is where DIY concept loose battle with record company. Maybe out of topic but I had to say this....

Oh, I agree. I don't mean to imply I feel that computer recording competes on a sonic/aural level with real studio recording.

I'm just saying that if finances are an issue, it's a convenient method that is workable.

To my mind, you obviously want the best possible sound quality, but I'm not convinced that the majority of people are such audiophiles that they are deeply invested in caring about it that much.

I mean, so many people use little mp3 players and ear buds as their primary method of music delivery these days.

I don't know...I can see both sides of it. I see where you are coming from and grant you are correct, but it is also true that there are more avenues now than ever to do simple recording and distributing.

It may be a very valid argument to say that music that is rooted in a certain era or is part of a niche market/smaller fan base should strive even more to use period equipment and aim for the utmost in sound quality.

To my mind (and ears) digital will never match analog recording, and I really detest things like AutoTune and the reliance on studio software, but I am all for the convenience and populist aspects of it.

I know what you mean about "majority of people" but I think that artist should try to get the best sound possible regardless of the fact that his music will end up as low quality mp3. Sometimes it is possible to get amazing results on budget. First Fathoms album is, if I remembered it correctly, recorded on 8 track in someone's basement. There are other examples as well. Still, I think, if you want quality you should make professional recording. Otherwise what is the point of all gear talk:) And I'm not being a musical snob here. We often recorded on budget so I'm deeply aware of frustration. OK, this is maybe for another topic. Back to surf instro blues:)

I know this is off the main topic but my question was just touched upon here.
In todays world of the music consumer doing his shopping from online sources such as I-tunes, what is the difference to a band in money made?

Does a band make more or less by having to produce a CD W/art work, liner notes, shipping and all the other out lay that I don't know about than if they just sell on a e-store like I-tunes.
I am wondering this cuz the wife gave me my monthly music allowence and am ready to spend.

Now to me while I dig LP cover art a CD's art falls short just cuz of size, when I get a new CD like the stuff I picked up at the Sunday at the Peir show for 10-12 bucks or Frankie & the Pool Boys it gets downloaded to my pod and put in a big box.

I want to support the bands from this site and ones I like from Live365 and get the most value for my dollar.

So how do I spend my money that you the bands get the biggest cut?
Keeping in mind that most stuff on I-tunes is 9.99 while most of the hard CD's at my local Indie music shop's run 13.00 to 19.00 bucks.

"Maybe there aren't any surf bands; there's only surf music?" Tuck

Hm guys, I think to make surf music more popular, we all have to think about new ways to play it. I've been a professional musician for the last 20 years and I played all kinds of musical styles. The last 10 years I played mostly surf music and now I don't care anymore, if all the stuff shows up in my songs. Blues, Rock, Punk, Ska, Reggae, Rockabilly, Indie Rock...there's so much cool stuff out there and if you combine some other grooves or chords with a surf guitar sound, it's such a cool thing.
My musician friends were laughing at me, when I started to play this kind of music and said why do you want to play THIS kind of music....Well, because I like it and I feel a connection to it that goes beyond thinking it's musically interesting. For me it's just an emotional thing...I feel at home with the style.

So far, this music brought me to seven european countries. I sold CDs allo ver the world, got to know people from the USA, recorded with Dusty Watson and experienced so much enthusiasm...I never expected that. So I think, if you want to be succesful with surfmusic, it's like in every other genre: you gotta work on it as hard as you can...

That means: Put on a good show. Four guys in suits or hawaian shirts standing around and worrying about the right amount of dwell on their reverb unit is not a good show...Jump around, talk to the audience, rock as hard as you can, do something that draws their attention, don't play the same songs over and over again...instead write some new ones. with interesting titeles and a story behind...that works well for us.
Don't be closed minded...for most people it's not that important, if the music is real surf or not, they want to have fun and see a band, that is entertaining and good at what they do...

Use your energy to book a show or write a song...not to put other people down, because they're not real surf...I think this is one of the greatest problems of underground music, that everyone wants to be right, knows exactly how to do it and can tell, when a band is playing: Oh no, they can't do that, it's not surf (or jazz or rockabilly or blues...put in what you like) and then go home and be happy that THEY found it out...

Personally I want to see musicians, who do something only they can do that way...that's what the guys that I like do, like Dave Wronski, Jim Thomas, JImi Hendrix, Sonic Youth, The Turbo ACs and so many more...

Is it more difficult today than fifteen years ago? I don't think so. You can produce a good sounding CD for little money, sell it world wide, connect with people over the internet, book shows in other countries, produce merchandise stuff for little money and so on. It's hard work to get your band know and find an audience...but it's always been like that. It's not true that all good bands from the sixties got famous and made a living on their music...it's just a myth that the old times were better...things change, some to the better, some to the worse, but it's always been like that...
Just keep it going and visit gigs as much as you can!
See you at the next Razorblades show

Tikidog
Hm guys, I think to make surf music more popular, we all have to think about new ways to play it. I've been a professional musician for the last 20 years and I played all kinds of musical styles. The last 10 years I played mostly surf music and now I don't care anymore, if all the stuff shows up in my songs. Blues, Rock, Punk, Ska, Reggae, Rockabilly, Indie Rock...there's so much cool stuff out there and if you combine some other grooves or chords with a surf guitar sound, it's such a cool thing.
My musician friends were laughing at me, when I started to play this kind of music and said why do you want to play THIS kind of music....Well, because I like it and I feel a connection to it that goes beyond thinking it's musically interesting. For me it's just an emotional thing...I feel at home with the style.

So far, this music brought me to seven european countries. I sold CDs allo ver the world, got to know people from the USA, recorded with Dusty Watson and experienced so much enthusiasm...I never expected that. So I think, if you want to be succesful with surfmusic, it's like in every other genre: you gotta work on it as hard as you can...

That means: Put on a good show. Four guys in suits or hawaian shirts standing around and worrying about the right amount of dwell on their reverb unit is not a good show...Jump around, talk to the audience, rock as hard as you can, do something that draws their attention, don't play the same songs over and over again...instead write some new ones. with interesting titeles and a story behind...that works well for us.
Don't be closed minded...for most people it's not that important, if the music is real surf or not, they want to have fun and see a band, that is entertaining and good at what they do...

Use your energy to book a show or write a song...not to put other people down, because they're not real surf...I think this is one of the greatest problems of underground music, that everyone wants to be right, knows exactly how to do it and can tell, when a band is playing: Oh no, they can't do that, it's not surf (or jazz or rockabilly or blues...put in what you like) and then go home and be happy that THEY found it out...

Personally I want to see musicians, who do something only they can do that way...that's what the guys that I like do, like Dave Wronski, Jim Thomas, JImi Hendrix, Sonic Youth, The Turbo ACs and so many more...

Is it more difficult today than fifteen years ago? I don't think so. You can produce a good sounding CD for little money, sell it world wide, connect with people over the internet, book shows in other countries, produce merchandise stuff for little money and so on. It's hard work to get your band know and find an audience...but it's always been like that. It's not true that all good bands from the sixties got famous and made a living on their music...it's just a myth that the old times were better...things change, some to the better, some to the worse, but it's always been like that...
Just keep it going and visit gigs as much as you can!
See you at the next Razorblades show

I love this post, that is why I love Razorblades' way of working.

Lorenzo "Surfer Joe" Valdambrini
(www.surfmusic.net)