surferjoemusic
I totally understand what you mean and I agree that it is all a personal point of view. At the same time I feel to agree with zzero saying that probably we discuss these things too much. We risk to lose the spirit. It is the most important thing for me when thinking of surf music. I see some surf bands that are way too serious when they play, they miss the fun, and fun is 99% of the surf music spirit for how i see it.

I totally agree with this. Anyone who knows my point of view knows this very well. To me Surf Music is Teenage Rock & Roll. If you lose that spirit then you've lost it all. But I'm interested in knowing what other people think.

BOSS FINK "R.P.M." available now from DOUBLE CROWN RECORDS!
www.facebook.com/BossFink
www.doublecrownrecords.com

although the Insect Surfers are not a trad surf band.
I think that Dave and the Boys keep the stage energy and fun factor very high.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

surferjoemusic

bigtikidude
although the Insect Surfers are not a trad surf band.
I think that Dave and the Boys keep the stage energy and fun factor very high.

Very true.

The 60's style go-go chicks during their set at this year's SG101 Con is living proof of that! Yowza. Dave is one cat that really taps into the vibe I'm talking about. Even though his band has progressive inclinations, they're still very rooted in the original vibe and sound.

BOSS FINK "R.P.M." available now from DOUBLE CROWN RECORDS!
www.facebook.com/BossFink
www.doublecrownrecords.com

I would like to weigh in: keep it the way your ear expects to hear it. I am having the same debate in my polka-jazz fusion combo lately. Exploration is fun for the player, but keep boundaries the audience understands even after three beers. I mean, can you improve upon the Chicken Dance with a 32-bar improvised Dorian mode accordion solo? Not really!

SSIV

Ruhar
I try not to think too much about this sort of thing.

Agreed. I look at some of the more out-there contemporary stuff I like as the logical continuation of the way out-there 60s stuff that falls under the surf banner - The Fender IV, The Avengers VI's "Sahara," a lot of The Atlantics stuff, etc.

That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.

To be fair, though, a lot of the "That's not surf" stuff here (that I've seen, at least) tends to be in reference to Jack Johnson-style stuff.

As far as why people change the core sound from '61-'65, I don't know if you can really apply a blanket statement to it ... but I think there's some combination of people wanting to put some a new spin on what's already been done, as well as people bringing influences to the table that didn't exist during '61-'65. Even if you're taking influence from more modern stuff in the sense that you don't want your music to sound like it, what you do is still colored by that. If you start a band and say you don't want any traces of, say, punk or metal in what you do, simply by going out of the way to avoid having those elements and influences creep in, the end result becomes altered. (Whereas in the 60s it was totally natural to avoid those influences because the genres in question didn't exist.)

As far as saying something is or isn't surf, for me it's a case by case thing. Some stuff that gets lumped in under the surf banner, to me, is surf-influenced punk or metal instros rather than punk or metal-influenced surf instros. Where to draw the line between those classifications? That's a really fine hair to split, but I guess for me it comes down to what genre is the base. If the base is clearly surf, then it's blank-influenced surf. If the base is something else, then it's surf-influenced, but not surf.

That probably reads like a bunch of gibberish.

That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.

shivers13
To me Surf Music is Teenage Rock & Roll. If you lose that spirit then you've lost it all.

Norm, I respect you greatly but I don't think you're right about this.

First of all, surf music is not just one thing - any one thing. It means very different things to different people, even to the originators, but certainly to all of us that joined later. There's no one correct way to define surf music.

Second, the fact is that not all originators of surf music were teenagers. Dick Dale, for one, was no teenager by the time that surf music really took off in '62 - he was 25 by then. The Ventures, of course, were about the same age as DD. The Astronauts were older than the typical SoCal teenage band, if I recall correctly, and by the time of Baja were in their early 20s. Here you have some of the most influential acts of the first wave, and what do you know, they weren't teens.

Third, I was never drawn to surf music because it's 'fun' and I suspect that goes for more than a few other people out there, too. I have fairly low tolerance for I-IV-V progressions, which rules out much of 'fun' surf music for me. What attracted me to it in the first place was its power, its mystery, its sense of adventure. Oh yeah, and its amazing creativity. When I first started getting into surf music, I was just blown away by how different and how out-there some of this stuff was, it was truly exciting to discover it! Also, it can be incredibly evocative, painting pictures in my mind much more effectively than any vocal music ever did. That's why I stick with it, since when it's done to my taste it still transports me to exotic locales more effectively than any other genre.

Fourth, I think you do a disservice to surf music by minimizing how different and how creative it was, by making it look like it's just teens cruising for chicks. The growth in the genre between '61 and '65 is quite astonishing. To go from Mr. Moto to Mar Gaya in that time period is pretty amazing. When you read interviews with Paul Johnson and Eddie Bertrand, they were really into their music, they took it very seriously and were constantly pushing themselves as musicians. In addition, you have really out-there stuff during that period, like Ventures in Space, or much of the stuff the Atlantics did (you think they were hoping to score with the chicks when they released War of the Worlds as a single??). Same goes for the Fender IV - every time I play Mar Gaya around my wife, she's immediately screaming at me 'turn it off!'. A good chunk of surf music most certainly does not attract girls, and I'm pretty sure it never did. And that's usually the stuff that I really love.

Fifth, the surf music that I love or at least respect is the stuff where the performers were able to stamp their own personality into their music. The stuff where as soon as i hear it, I know which band it is. There's way too much surf music where I listen to it and think, I have no idea who this is - it could be any of dozens of bands out there. That usually applies to bands that are trying to sound really trad - but inevitably end up sounding bland and boring. I'm not into progress for the sake of progress - I'm into progress when it comes from musicians that are really putting themselves into their music and because of their personal creativity end up opening new doors for the rest of us.

Finally, I'm glad you don't think surf music is broken, but I am definitely afraid it might be. Having been a part of this scene since '94, I would say that it's close to being on life-support at the moment. The number of CDs being released is way lower that there was in the '90s. The level of excitement about surf music seems way lower than in the '90s. Sure there are some bright spots, like the SG101 convention and Surfer Joe and the new North Sea festival. But the reason why these things are happening is due to a few highly-dedicated and enthusiastic individuals who want to do what they can to make surf music more well-known. It's not due to some outcry from the public for more surf music events. In addition, it seems to me that there is less creativity in surf music today than there has been in the past 20 years. It's not only leveled off, it's dropped way off. The number of zines writing about surf music has diminished. Certainly the number of labels releasing surf music has gone way down. The number of surf bands being able to tour around the country has gone way down. And here's the biggest problem - there are hardly any new bands of note. Very few people in their 20s are playing surf music, the only bands that are releasing stuff consist of guys in their 30s, 40s, and often in their 50s or even older. This is not a sustainable situation. I actually really worry about the future of our genre.

Sorry to go all 'brainiac' on you, but you asked. I would never tell you how you should feel about surf music, and if it's all about Rat Fink and hot rods and chicks for you, great, man, have a blast! No doubt that was a big part of surf music from its very beginning. But, please don't try to box it in for the rest of us. It seems we should really encourage bands to try to do something different with it, make it more relevant to the younger people of today (if that is indeed possible) rather than put the blinkers on.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

I too enjoy these thread exploring the diversity and (sometimes) ambiguity of Surf. Just one question to add and I'd really like to hear opinions about.

Hasn't surf music been pretty much "family safe" all these years with almost no exceptions. Am I beginning to see a (disturbing) trend away from this aspect by blending Surf with alcohol, cursing, gore, racism, or violence etc?

One of the comments we universally heard during interviews is how Surf is appropriate for all generations, grandparents and grandchildren can enjoy the same shows together and this has been part of the appeal.

Most of you know better than me so please discuss as I really want to understand why this is necessary. Will we need to apply some labeling system to surf albums and videos? (ugh!) Is this a trend of the culture and Surf beginning to bend to conform or appeal to a larger audience?

thanks,
td

Sound of the Surf, the movie
Facebook SOTS

or post it publicly.
I am wondering what bands include this, or promote these things.

Not that I endorse them, just wondering where you are getting these ideas from.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

bigtikidude
or post it publicly

No kidding - some of those are serious allegations.

That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.