stratdancer wrote:

synchro wrote:

stratdancer wrote:

More violins shredding

That was truly astounding and every bit as powerful as Dick Dale’s version. It makes me wish I’d stuck with the violin after 10th grade.

I know! I quit way to early! My mom was a violinist and a few years back I picked up her violin, which I learned on in grade school, and did nothing but make my teeth hurt! Now imagine playing Miserlou and then turning a verse over to a concert violinist. That is exactly the direction I'm going!

I am legally proscribed from playing violin by the provisions of the Geneva Convention. If any POWs happened to be within earshot of my playing, it would be considered torture.

In 10th grade, I did a year of violin and did it poorly. I was never much more than lousy, even at my best. Many years later, and after lots of attention to proper guitar technique, I picked up a violin and sounded worse than ever. My bowing was horrid. Surprisingly, I can bow a double bass and get a decent sound. I don't think any orchestral bassists will lose any sleep over the competition, I still have a long way to go, but at least it's not the tortured sounds I get out of a violin.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

stratdancer wrote:

I can bow some Jimmy Page stuff through my echo!

Sounds promising.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

stratdancer wrote:

Bowing on a guitar is messy stuff and I won't allow it on my beautiful prized Stratocasters!

E-bow is the way to go.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

stratdancer wrote:

That! Wow! Possible new purchase!

All you have to cleanup is virtual/electrical rosin.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Didn't mean to come on so strong Sam. For many surf musicians around the world like myself the road to surf has been a long one. In my case it grew on me due to the absence of vocal work. As a rock musician with a strong desire to be a performance artist, you have to find the place you will make your stand. A place that you will hitch your wagon to and hang your hat through thick and thin. I listened to surf music for almost a full decade before I even started playing surf. I was playing modern rock with a heavy influence from 70's classic rock and occasionally trying to play surf. I wasn't able to play surf until I was able to make surf guitar sound with my guitar. It took amp, guitar and equipment changes to allow me to hear my place in the genre. Once I started writing and playing various other artists I knew this was going to be an important sound in my area of the country. People that love music tend to love surf if they get a chance to see and hear it. I'm lucky that I am in an area that loves music but NE Ohio has never been known for surf music. That is my luck.

As far as pipeline and wipeout are concerned, we do play pipeline occasionally but it ends up being so fast we can barely keep up with it. Most of our music is at 180 bpm. Surf as a genre has so many different elements to it that playing the standards is my last choice. For us, this isn't a stand there and perform a ventures song perfectly kind of band. We are a balls to the wall barrage of notes and expression band but the bands that do various covers are incredible for their musicianship. There is so much more to surf than surf. I feel that labeling it surf does such a disservice to the genre but what else do you call it?

Don't feel you have to leave the genre because of anything I said but if you aren't creating a great tone with your equipment and have an intense desire to pick up your guitar and play or write surf music then maybe it's not your thing. When I play, it's exhilarating to hear and I climb deeper into melodies and vision the different twist and turns a piece can have. That never seems to end.

The question posed was just that. I explained what I am working towards in 2019 with the goal of more credibility as a musical act and a larger audience. That is important to me and hopefully important to other surf musicians. I put the question out there to see how others might be thinking to broaden the genre because it's important to everyone. I guess I felt the need to question if you really understood the thread and the bigger picture. You won't really climb deeply into surf unless you have the sound that suits you. That's what's going to be your inspiration. If you are using a modeling amp with 9's strung up you may not be getting a full understanding of your place in surf.

The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

Last edited: Feb 03, 2019 07:25:10

Well stated and no, you can't surf with a les paul! One of the difficult things about this genre is that almost nobody playing in surf bands today have ever surfed and modern day surfers don't listen to surf music. A little technicality

The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

Last edited: Feb 03, 2019 12:35:41

Thank you for this thread. I have a LOT of thoughts about surf music. I don’t call it surf rock, because to me that’s redundant! I see the argument - punk rock, blues rock, country rock, rap rock. I guess I’d just rather it be called surf music than surf rock. Lots of surf is of course technically “rock” (drum kit, amplified guitars / basses), but calling it that sounds cheap to me somehow.

Anyway - I think black metal, which mostly started in 1991, takes a huge amount of its guitar style from surf. Not tone (at all), but the tremolo style. The example below is not the best example, but just imagine tremolo picking for AGES in these songs. I mean non stop for minutes or even 20+ minutes at a time (surely on 8s or 9s tho). That’s the first video.

The second video represents the other significant place I hear a surf style - certain instrumental post rock. Especially the “metal post rock” like the band below and Deafheaven.

I mean, let’s be honest - the “classic” surf guitar style borrows a lot from flamenco.

I feel that the first video posted here with the violin player is super awesome, just stunning musicianship (the piano absolutely shreds too), but I can’t say I felt the connection to the surf style. Actually my first thought is that it reminded me of the earliest version of that song that I’d heard - a violin and piano! The other violin videos are impressive also but even the pipeline sounded like another genre covering a surf song. I do think including non-surf-traditional instruments is an exciting idea! Kettle drums and other percussion would make a great song epic.

I think for me, it’s the “surf” guitar, the beat, and the overall style, including reverb. If any of those are absent it feels like a different genre. Even a somewhat different tone or distortion can be overlooked and the song can still be surf.

ElectricLimnology wrote:

Without sounding too ditactic I think the future of surf music lies in allowing ones self to relax a sense of reverence for tradition. This music started with teenagers, novice musicians messing around and turning the reverb way up. Adults with $3k vintage guitars devoting themselves to recreating that situation is kind of absurd when you stop and think about it. I don't mean that with derision. Revivalism is perfectly fine. It's fun. But I do think it's artistically limiting. Limitations drive creativity. However surf music, this is my theory, because it is so closely connected to a particularly short moment in time, the boundaries are over defined. Especially since there's all this external non music stuff like hot rods, monster movies, tikis, etc. The result is a music sub genre that is difficult to advance. It's very difficult not to turn it into rock n' roll Civil War reenactment.

Ha! I like what you’re saying here, but you are being a bit ageist. I’m of the opinion that it doesn’t matter how old you are, if you’re imitating or being original. There are those who love to copy (or cover), and those who like to compose, and the grey area in between. As many have pointed out, imitation “expands” a genre to new audiences without directly “elevating” or “evolving” the genre. All types are a-okay in my book, but some are more exciting for me than others.

With scant exceptions, I have found lots of surf (all waves) to be pretty staid. Repetitious, unoriginal, and often too slow. But I LOVE the genre, and to me the backbone of it is the guitar tone and style.

stratdancer wrote:

Song title, in instrumental music, have nothing to do with the music however, the author can paint imagery with the title. If he or she gets a certain vibe from what they have written and it's relatable then the listener, they can use their imagination also and that's what makes music so great!

Song titles in instrumental music are super important to me. Some songs repeat a theme (emotional message) over and over, some tell a story (and emotional journey). The title provides a relatable starting point. Kinda like when a painter titles their painting, and then leaves the audience to make the connection.

Great thread and great posts!

Daniel Deathtide

ElectricLimnology wrote:

Without sounding too ditactic I think the future of surf music lies in allowing ones self to relax a sense of reverence for tradition. This music started with teenagers, novice musicians messing around and turning the reverb way up. Adults with $3k vintage guitars devoting themselves to recreating that situation is kind of absurd when you stop and think about it. I don't mean that with derision. Revivalism is perfectly fine. It's fun. But I do think it's artistically limiting. Limitations drive creativity. However surf music, this is my theory, because it is so closely connected to a particularly short moment in time, the boundaries are over defined. Especially since there's all this external non music stuff like hot rods, monster movies, tikis, etc. The result is a music sub genre that is difficult to advance. It's very difficult not to turn it into rock n' roll Civil War reenactment.

Tragically I think the genre has slipped and become more regressive than it once was.

. . .

You make some good points.

Aficionados of all special interests tend to narrow the definition of that interest. Sometimes, there is a sense of holding to the true faith and no diversion from the straight and narrow will be tolerated. But music, indeed life itself, rarely works that way. At one time, Surf was played on Top 40 stations, blasting its way out of tube-powered AM radios mounted in the dashboards, as teens lived something not so different from American Graffiti. But there weren’t Surf music stations, just the AM stations which played music of interest to the youth market of the time. They were always looking for something new, something novel; something that would reach out and grab the listener by the ears. Surf happened, and I remember enjoying it at the time, but it was never a major musical movement. It existed in the context of the times and if you listen to other Pop/Rock music of the era, the bright guitars with reverb were found in many songs, including many of the vocal hits. Surf was a product of its time. But that leads me to mother point.

There are some musical events which can be pinpointed to a very specific date and time. The Beatles appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show on April 9, 1964. I remember; I was watching as it happened. (FWIW, the Ford Mustang was first presented to the public 8 days later. 1964 was a busy year.) But many musical events were a bit more nebulous. Surf music, the instrumental Surf recordings we all know and love, came about in the early ‘60s, but it didn’t come about in a vacuum. We were listening to Jan & Dean, The Beach Boys and countless other pieces of music that fit the time.

Indeed, Dick Dale was knocking them out at the Rendezvous Ballroom, starting in 1961, but that was a relatively local phenomenon. Let’s Go Trippin’ only hot 60 on the national Charts. As a midwestern boy, at the time, I’m sure I would have heard these songs, but they never dominated the airwaves.

My point here is that trying to recapture those days is a bit tough to do. If you wanted to recreate 1962 musically, you’d have to play quite a variety, which would include Surf, but hardly be dominated by it.

My own approach is to honor Surf Music and play it in the spirit it was first recorded, but also keep in mind the context of the era. I’m glad that I can play Surf and find an audience; Surf is a great part of the music scene, but it was never predominant.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I'm terminally biased but I think surf is doing and can do just fine.

One caveat is that melody can't be abandoned or ignored. Just as metal, punk and other forms of music often become cliches or parodies of themselves with all the extraneous stuff, surf is known for the glissandos, the bends, the reverb tricks, the fills, the tribal beats, etc. but sooner or later people want (consciously or unconsciously) to hear a song ie a melody. Surf songwriting in particular is fraught with the hazard of 'hmmm this sounds too much like the famous track that (ahem) inspired it' but I believe that fresh melodies can be coaxed from surf guitar even in the year 2019/2020.

This video has 'gone viral' (even though I dislike that term) because it applies to so many forms of music, especially the current bubblegum pop/hip-hop dominating the charts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII&t=665s

I link it here because it's thorough and interesting but also because it illustrates the contrast between surf and other more organic, analog, traditional forms and the Pro Tools quantized, pitch-corrected, compressed, overdubbed factory product described in the linked video.

The human ear is a wonderful creation with its ability to hear the slightest differences in frequency, volume and even direction. It was meant to ably assist us as Upper Paleolithic Hunter Gatherers (hey there's a good band name) in a) staying alive in the woods and b) finding food. Obviously it's handy in the modern era for listening to music as well. Surf is predicated on such variations in pitch and dynamics through right and/or left hand technique and, of course, the vibrato arm. It almost always relies on the even-order harmonics delivered via tube amplifiers and the airy throb of acoustic drumkits.

That's a long way of saying that surf, among others, appeals to the human ear and its preference (for lack of a better term) for analog sounds more than, say, EDM does. Anecdotal evidence: we've played several venues where surf was definitely not their usual tipple but the crowd enjoyed it immensely, stayed for most/all of the set(s) and said as much after (although they did have some concerns about volume from our blonde piggyback amplifiers ;)).

But the human ear (and brain) also appreciates order - sloppy surf can justifiably be dismissed as garage rock/weekend warrior stuff. Tight surf - not necessarily uptempo at all times but obviously well-rehearsed - also appeals to basic human instinct, perception, etc. As is the often the case with food (eg steak) or art (think Hirschfeld or Alex Toth drawings), what seems simple is often anything but.

Good surf can and will survive just like any other form if it is prepped and presented well.

Last edited: Feb 05, 2019 07:50:37

Toneschaser wrote:

One thing though guys, you can't surf with a Les Paul?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X6PI3z1gog&list=PLenaS4c0c83P3nOrlh_fgEc9MvzU6Z4aP

If a Les Paul could surf it would be a Junior with P-90s! Just like the one in the pictures on your band's website! The exception that proves the rule! Your recordings sound really great!

This is definitely the most thought provoking thread since I joined the forum. It's the thing I think about the most when I'm on here.

As far as being "ageist" as Synchro justifiably pointed out (I know you are not being accusatory), years really have little to do with it. To varying degrees we are all trying to recreate the feeling of creating something when we were younger. I'm in my 40s now and I have rarely come close to the kind of ecstatic joy I experienced from playing in a band and experimenting with sound as a teenager and in my early twenties. On some level we are all seeking to re experience how we felt in our earliest bands. Even those among us who perhaps didn't even pick up instruments until later in life are pursuing that feeling because they know it's there. They can here it in the same recordings that inspired us as young people. Perhaps we just had more indulgent or wealthier parents. Rock n/ roll music is the music of youth no matter the age of the person playing it. A while ago I read an interview with Steve Albini where he says that bands are basically a way for adult men to participate in the rituals of adolescence (I don't want to spend the time looking for the quote but I think it came from an interview in Tape Op). I know that is a true statement. I point out what I see as the absurdity of this pursuit because I think it's emotionally grounding and genuinely funny. You know "don't take yourself so seriously. We're playing music for teenagers". They were having fun and so should we. This is especially important when we become too pre occupied with the material side of things. I don't care what Surfer Joe said (in another thread), you do not need a $4000 amplifier to play this or any other kind of electric folk music. Vintage or boutique gear will make it more period authentic if that is your main interest. But the only thing you really need is passion and imagination.

I'm supposed to be doing my taxes. Back to work.

The Vicissitones
Diesel Marine
The Rasputones