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SurfGuitar101 Forums » SurfGuitar101 Website »

Permalink The future of SG101 3.0

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Brian wrote:

I also find it really strange KK that you have been very absent from here for a long time, and all of a sudden you re-emerge to say how crappy this place is.

Brian, I’m really sorry my comments come across so negative. First of all, I AM strange! Secondly, I stopped posting here for a number of reasons, and these are not unique to this forum. I stopped Tiki Central and Offset Guitars as well. But I think the problems can be tackled, which is why I find this thread constructive enough to contribute.

If I had a solution to break up the ego minefields and in-circle-like behaviour I would type it now.

The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann

You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.

Brian - I really hope you're still want to run and develop SG101 for a long time. This site is superb and has been for many years. I have nothing more to add really.

El Twitter
El Ray
El Ray on Bandcamp
El Twang on YouTube

KK, I'm really glad you are here and want to help.

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me

"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea

Hi Brian - I joined sg101 just last month after lurking for a couple. I've wandered the vast wonderland (or is that wasteland?) that is the internet for 20 years and sg101 has been the first forum community that has made me want to join and be a contributor. I love sg101 and check it several times a day to see what is going on with my surf family.

The following is part of an email I sent a couple of weeks back in response to a PM from a fellow sg101 member. He was inquiring about what part of Georgia I lived in. I checked his username and realized it was from a musician in an Atlanta surf band. It sums up some of what I think is so great about your website.

"I have only recently become aware of the surf scene in Atlanta and the community at SurfGuitar101, mainly because of a Creative Loafing interview with Chad Shivers. My first forum post on SG101 tells that story. I’ve been thinking about trying to get to some of the Southern Surf Stomps at Kavarna, but my wife and kids aren’t as into surf as I am and I hate to drag them. I have been really taken with the great sense of community I have found at SG101. Everyone is kind and supportive and I haven’t found any trolls. The fact that people I would regard as surf music gods and superstars take part and interact with regular fans on a daily basis is truly something special (fanboy mode back on) as it was for you to inquire about my location based, I assume, on my handful of forum posts. It has made my day."

Like I said, I'm new here and as a newbie, and as such I felt like I should listen more than I spoke. After reading this thread it appears that everyone would appreciate a little more activity from everyone on the site. I will now remove my newbie gag and speak out more often. Thank you, Brian, for creating and running this great site.

-Tim
MyYouTubeChannel
My Classic Instrumental Surf Music Timeline
SSS Agent #777

Las_Barracudas wrote:

  • Newbies that visit are often cut-off and essentially shown the door when posting a topic about certain gear like REVERB effects / pedals. Let them have at it I say. Jumping right in and suggesting they use the "search" feature is off-putting to a new visitor.

I get it, but I see the same thing on near every forum I'm on. Someone's gonna be that guy that brings it up. Usually, there's a few others that will jump in and answer the question.

  • A more mobile / tablet friendly platform is a must imho. It's just the way many view web content now-a-days.

I don't have a problem reading it on an iPhone 4. Not sure what everyone means by this.

  • There's a vibe here that SoCal is the center of the Surf universe and everybody else is well,... outlanders. As I'm sure many realize and have noticed the various regional factions have sprung up across the web universe that now represent pretty much every Surf community from every neck of the woods. (Southern States, Mexico, Europe, etc.). It's a small world and getting smaller.

I've never seen this. The Tomorrowmen are NorCal, aren't they? (dunno how y'all classify each other in California) The Penetrators and Daikaiju are from Alabama. The Mystery Men?, the Surge, KBK......a number of other bands are from the Atlanta area. The Atomic Mosquitos are in the DC area. Don't get me started on the Euro bands that are popping up. I see a lot of discussion about them.

I really think SG101 kind of pooped the bed and how you correct that I don't know? SG101 3.0 with a more all inclusive and welcoming attitude via a humble campaign to regain members and new folk maybe??

Again, seems pretty welcoming to me.

Fact is many many folks / bands have checked out because of the nonsense which is apparent or should be.

But isn't to a number of us who have responded. To be honest, I'm pretty much of the opinion that thin-skinned people have no business being on the internet. It's a forum made up of a whole bunch of people. It isn't all going to be rainbows and unicorn farts. Sometimes, as in life, people are just going to rub you the wrong way. Rub back.

  • There's also some rather high-profile musicians that are aware of the site but will not participate. To all I say be careful when being snarky or ill-mannered or posting something derogatory about a band, like "that's not real Surf", etc.; you never know who is behind a handle or just reading posts on the page Wink .

See the above.

  • Certain posters here are given a pass and are continually allowed to be rude and snarky. It seems many are above suspension / banning. While others are essentially web smacked for daring to question or rebut. You've got certain bands that the "establishment" fawns all over while other equally as good bands are dismissed or ignored. Too many other options to hang out and participate where you're not welcome or appreciated. SG101's community model is lacking imo. Bad attitudes and rude behavior drive off good folk. It seems to me it's quickly becoming a group for only the cool kids and I see the same 10 +/- people posting much of the time.

Yay!!!! I'm finally one of the kool kids, 'cause I've never seen any of it.

This page has been my homepage since 2009. I flew to California to see some of the bands that I fell in love with, and meet a bunch of the people I met on here. I've PM'd artists to ask questions about songs.....I've had folks from bands go out of their way to do nice stuff for me......this is the only website I've ever donated money to for operating costs (yeah, I know Brian....not very much. lol Wink ). Brian has built a community here, the likes of which I haven't come across before. It's not going to meet everyone's (or, to be fair, anyone's) definition of perfect, but it's pretty gosh darn good.

Will

"You're done, once you're a surfer you're done. You're in. It's like the mob or something. You're not getting out." - Kelly Slater

The Luau Cinders

JakeDobner wrote:

I also don't think anybody is is openly rude or hostile anymore. Things may come off as curt being typed on the web and especially as we deal with opinion. And we definitely need to not link to old threads or the search function when I new member asks a question. Opinions change over the years, I enjoy giving new perspective that I have learned.

I think in some cases that we know each other so well (from an online persona standpoint) that we understand what's coming across. To a noob, it might seem like we're a bit....abrupt sometimes.

Will

"You're done, once you're a surfer you're done. You're in. It's like the mob or something. You're not getting out." - Kelly Slater

The Luau Cinders

WaimeaBay wrote:

I also feel this place has failed to attract a younger demographic that can carry the surf music torch. At times, I figured I'd never come back, but something always draws me back. Here is my humble input. I sure don't want to offend anyone.

I don't know how to bring younger people in. If they're listening and playing the music, you'd think they'd find their way here.

  1. I have spoken to former members via pm or on the phone who think a portion of the members come across as snark and snobby. Surf Music is almost exclusive to upper middle class people and it seems like these people don't always like opening the door for working class/blue collar people. This is my opinion and it is a great shame. I am not sure how this can be changed. But it is something to consider.

I'm sure as hell blue collar, and I've never felt anything but welcome. To be honest, other than figuring out how much someone's gear is worth, I don't know how you figure out what socioeconomic class someone is unless they tell you. I know what a handful of members do for a living, and I wouldn't consider them to be the upper crust. Folks are working for a living.

  1. I agree with above posters. People should be able to ask anything and get answers without feeling like a burden. Old threads can be sited, but the questions should be answered on the same thread. Why are these things still not open for discussion?

Agreed, but I understand the frustration when someone asks a question, and there's a 45 page discussion about it pinned to the top of the forum. This isn't unique to here, either. Every music forum I'm on has the same thing happen.

  1. Tabs. When I first joined I used to create tabs. They might not have been perfect, but they didn't take long either. I thought it would be an amazing idea if every member would tab 3 or 4 of their favorite surf songs and create a database of surf music for new members to explore. I recommended that idea years ago and the crickets chirped. If you want people to get people interested in the genre, it helps if they can play along with their favorite songs! We could even do video lessons or something to that effect. Their are too many great players on this site to let all this knowledge go to waste. Some things you can give away for free.

Agreed. I think I tabbed one or two out a long time back. Maybe I need to tab out some of the bass lines I'm playing. We had talked about some lessons, but everyone has day jobs. I'd love to see a long thread where someone writes a song, and describes the process as they do it.

  1. The gear section. Always been my favorite. If it was not here, I'd not be here. I'd like to see more reviews of gear and products. Maybe even video links comparing gear. It would be a great way for people to show off their stuff instead of posting boring pictures.

Surf is probably the most minimalistic genre I know of. I've seen acoustic guitarists with more pedals and gear.

  1. The classified section. It has been awesome. I have bought and sold using it and never had a problem.

Agreed. I don't sweat buying stuff here.

  1. California. Yeah those members seem like a club, but I am jealous because I wish there was a scene like that in my state. Many of the California members have been awesome teachers to me over the years like Ryan Ruiz and DP. Let them have their clique, we should try building our own!

Me too. DC used to have a small one, but there isn't much here now. Trying to build it back up, though.

Will

"You're done, once you're a surfer you're done. You're in. It's like the mob or something. You're not getting out." - Kelly Slater

The Luau Cinders

i have made so many friends from sg101, gotten turned on to so many bands on sg101 and have found people so helpful when i have an issue with or a question about something.

i've witnessed only a few times in my 10 years on here someone maybe being a bit short with an answer to someone's question or comment, but it's been rare. (i've seen a lot of stuff on FB that i can't believe some have posted)

so to brian all i can say is job well done.

www.surfintheeye.com

If anyone has seen what they think me as being rude to someone on here,
It's probably me trying to be funny, and not coming across thru the net.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

bigtikidude wrote:

If anyone has seen what they think me as being rude to someone on here,
It's probably me trying to be funny, and not coming across thru the net.

i've never thought you to be rude on here

www.surfintheeye.com

I look forward to 3.0. Jeff, you're not rude. Might we consider a Facebook SG101 that (1) provides to folks that which FB does best and makes them happy (2) treat the FB page as a portal into the extensive library of deep subject matter that this page does best - for those who gravitate toward that?

As a side issue, maybe in the forum a section for Surf 5.0? New and interesting stuff, the future, blended stuff etc. In other words, embrace or even incubate and generate the future while still respecting and protecting all things since the Belairs?

OK. I'll shut up now.

mj

Picard Face Palm

mj
bent playing for benter results
Do not attempt to adjust your TV set.
https://www.facebook.com/Bass-VI-Explorers-Club-179437279151035/
https://www.facebook.com/Lost-Planet-Shamen-366987463657230/

Cool

WaimeaBay wrote:

I also feel this place has failed to attract a younger demographic that can carry the surf music torch.

Young people have been members of this site, whether or not we/they are still young is a existential crises waiting to happen. And what is your definition of young? I was 16 when I joined, definitely young. I am 31 now... kind of still young. Are we attracting a ton of 16 year olds, no. Do we, yes. But what 16 year old is listening to instrumental music? I had Man or Astro-Man? as my gateway drug, they were still active and you could find their music at any record store in Seattle. You couldn't find a single active surf band at a record store in Seattle these days. This isn't SG101's fault, and it certainly impacts membership here. SG101 will never get a person to listen to surf music, but it is their gateway to become immersed in our genre.

My gateway was Los Straightjackets on Little Steven's Underground Garage via XM. Thank you Little Steven!

All I wish I knew what they were talking about

I like Facebook for connecting with individuals. For example, I look at Carols surf pictures/report every day. As for the group pages, I'm probably a member of all the surf pages on FB and I have to admit, I'm fed up with the 100's of videos cross posted between the pages. For this reason, I think moving SG101 to Facebook would weaken it's position as an authority on the surf genre. I can log onto Facebook and create 10 Surf music pages tonight and probably get all sorts of likes and followers and all I'd have to do is repost a bunch of Youtube videos.

Hitting "like" on FB is meaningless, takes zero thought, and zero effort, whereas going to the SG101 site and creating an account or even just browsing topics takes someone who has a genuine interest in the content. FB is great for pictures of your lunch, and cat videos; in other words it is lightweight. SG101 is a community of people who share a passion and want to connect with other people with the same passion; not to get "likes" but because they love the music.

Can SG101 be improved? Certainly, but that's not to say there is something wrong with it; it only means that as a community we are not satisfied with the status quo.

I'd like to see SG101 become an even a greater authority on the genre. I'd like to see it move past being just a forum and become a webpage that has permanent sections on history, bands, gear, etc. as well as a button where you can "join the conversation" and access the forums. I'd also like to see some free video lessons on how to play songs AND a page where you can upload your recording or video for an open forum critique/encouragement. More original multimedia content by members whether they are noodling a new song, or contributing to the permanent reference library (someone suggested adding guitar/bass tabs). What could be more encouraging to a beginning or intermediate player to have some real live musicians offer kind words and/or advice. Perhaps some collaborative work between members using the site as a conduit could be something to explore.

https://www.facebook.com/index.php?lh=9353f9155b5ff32e14c998495fd00da4&#!/rich.derksen.7

Last edited: Aug 30, 2015 01:37:51

Brief awakening after driving back from The Madeira/Revomatics show last night...

Brian, the foregoing reminds me of something I wanted to add to my 'list' of inclusions for upgrade of the website. If possible, a background such that a font color can be used (not an emoticon) to indicate a passage that is offered "tongue in cheek" or with a touch of good-natured sarcasm. A darker background can facilitate that easily; I've seen it work well at other fora.

Smile

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

First, a huge THANK YOU to Brian, for providing the infrastructure that allows us to be the community that we want to be.

Second, a huge THANK YOU to all of the SG101 community members who participate here. It is your content that causes me to spend more time on this site than any other.

Though I am a surf drummer, I enjoy reading many of the forum threads, - even the gear topics! I especially enjoy the "Downloads" for the backing tracks, demos and compilations. (I despise the fake drum tracks, but understand why they must exist.) I do especially enjoy the chance to collaborate with other members on creating recordings together for the member compilations or just for fun.

I do use the calendar and upcoming shows info. to look for events where I might be travelling. (I once pursuaded Christine to drive 6 hours through central Florida to catch "Cutback" playing the Mai Kai in Fort Lauderdale! Worth every second, and I highly recommend same to all here. (Well, maybe except for the pursuading Christine to go with you part!)

Anyway, I hope we all evolve positively together, with Brian's capable facilitation. I take away more than I contribute here, but will continue participating more when I can.
Best to all,
Dick

*Dick B.
The Aquatudes
http://www.aquatudes.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Aquatudes/107419619521

Last edited: Aug 30, 2015 19:57:32

Badger wrote:

Brief awakening after driving back from The Madeira/Revomatics show last night...

Brian, the foregoing reminds me of something I wanted to add to my 'list' of inclusions for upgrade of the website. If possible, a background such that a font color can be used (not an emoticon) to indicate a passage that is offered "tongue in cheek" or with a touch of good-natured sarcasm. A darker background can facilitate that easily; I've seen it work well at other fora.

Smile

… and a printable pdf with explanations of the color codes ;)

The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann

You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.

Pappa_Surf wrote:

I'd also like to see some free video lessons on how to play songs

I've had a similar idea!

I was thinking it'd be great to have a song a month that is both taught ~and~ appreciated. Not taught in the sense of here's how you ape the lick or whatever, but really discussed in terms of form, chord progressions, stand out features or unique approaches to the lead/melody, etc.

I'd imagined it being a week to get acquainted with the tune and discuss the unique features of the song - really get to know the songs with repeated, attentive listens.

The second week could focus on the structure/form, key, chords, progressions, rhythm and whatnot.

Third week (and possibly 4th depending on complexity) focused on the lead/melody - use of arpeggios, chord tones, scales/modes, etc.

And the last phase could be the ah-ha's and insights gleaned from de-constructing and really learning a song. That could be musical knowledge, technique, anything really.

I guess you could call it a study group or song club (like a book club).

Of course, it boils down to people in the know to shape/inform accurate unfolding (I think we've got a few of those qualified folks here), and of course all of our most precious resource (time!).

I think the benefits if something like this got traction would range from engagement and interesting discussions to development and learning of songs for many folks, to, who knows, perhaps even the insight needed for more people to write original music (grow the community & scene!). It might even provide a broader ability in folks to articulate what it is about music we like and why (something that some folks do well in reviews/critiques, but most of us really struggle with), which further enables engagement with the community.

Who knows, maybe it's too academic for folks who just want to ride the wave and feel the emotion. Or maybe just too much work. I've resisted putting this idea out there up to now because I personally would be largely in the consume/learn camp. But the outpouring and engagement in this thread got me to lean in and speak up. Maybe it has legs...?

Fady

El Mirage @ ReverbNation

In the immortal words of JFK... "Ask not what this forum can do for you, ask what you can do for this forum"!

All Brian can do is set up the canvas. It's up to YOU to make it interesting.

Brian, one thing that would be cool is if a band could create a permanent profile that they set up and maintain themselves that was clearly seen on the main page with perhaps with a map to locate the group by region.

I feel it's up to the band to promote themselves and no one should expect to have someone do it for them!

BOSS FINK "R.P.M." available now from DOUBLE CROWN RECORDS!
www.facebook.com/BossFink
www.doublecrownrecords.com

Wow, what a thread. Some real soul searching going on. That can only be a good thing. Brian, I visit this site several times a day, it's my home. The FB threads suck, they are useless and any good info disappears quickly. FB is better for alerting people about gigs because most of our fans aren't hardcore surf music nuts enough to join this forum. Of course, the hope is that they will go hard core and join us hear at some point. I'd like to post more here, but usually when I read a thread, if the subject is well covered, there is nothing more to add. I hate it when people derail threads! I definitely would like to have a SG101 app. Carry on, my life depends on it!
Yer pal, Ferenc

PS- Someone mentioned that it would be cool to make posting threads from SG101 to FB. I agree, when you post there, a random image is used. Also, when cross posting the POTD, the link is only good for 24 hours.
Posting photos from FB to here is fairly easy, but videos not. It really bummed me out to see videos taken at the Con showing up on FB, but not here.

Buy Speed of Dark @ Bandcamp
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Last edited: Aug 30, 2015 11:48:50

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