DannySnyder wrote:

I'm curious if anyone else out here agrees with Las Barracudas' points?

I don't disagree with any of them except maybe the "California is the epi-center of surf" comment. This definitely isn't how it is anymore, there use to be many more active bands in California. There is a big focus on Europe, I feel the South represents themselves brilliantly, and we have a ton of midwesterners.

I also don't think anybody is is openly rude or hostile anymore. Things may come off as curt being typed on the web and especially as we deal with opinion. And we definitely need to not link to old threads or the search function when I new member asks a question. Opinions change over the years, I enjoy giving new perspective that I have learned.

• It would be really interesting to know how many potential SG101 members on FB are not coming here, despite knowing of this sites existence.
• Since the point of demographic came up, are young folks still familiar with the concept of forums? I mean Yahoo! groups are becoming a bit quiet recently, too.
• What ways could be used to direct people from FB to SG101? ElMonstroPorFavor’s idea of busy threads being forwarded as bait seems to make sense.

The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann

You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.

Last edited: Aug 29, 2015 10:49:25

DannySnyder wrote:

I'm curious if anyone else out here agrees with Las Barracudas' points?

I get his points. How did it come to this? There is no plan for a forum to develope like this. It’s a function of various group psychological effects I guess. It has to do with ego give and take. Can be gear photos or projects, not just music. And also group thinking - perceived leading roles are constantly being enhanced by the group, beyond the point of rediculousness.

There are various things that could be done about Las Barracudas points. The festival could be in a different country every year, for example - so SoCal would get a more proportional representation when reading the site.

The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann

You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.

Last edited: Aug 29, 2015 11:11:38

WoodyJ wrote:

DannySnyder wrote:

I'm curious if anyone else out here agrees with Las Barracudas' points?

Yes. And I have the PM's I received after my earlier post to prove it.

I'm flabbergasted. If anyone feels they have been abused or mistreated they need to contact me and I'll take care of it.

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me

"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea

Las_Barracudas wrote:

I'm sure this post will offend some but it's my honest opinion.

• When I first found SG101 it was because I was searching for information about Surf gear. I think it's a mistake to continually poopoo folks that are more interested in the Gear Forum than the Surf Music Forum. After all the name of the site is SurfGuitar101!

We won't get rid of the gear forum. But how many pages do we need on picks?

It's ironic because I started the SurfGuitar101 Yahoo Group because I got flamed on Cowabunga for asking a question on guitar strings. So I started a Yahoo Group to focus on gear because I was hugely interested in it. After only maybe a year (IMHO) the other Yahoo Groups tanked and disintegrated due to flame wars and personality conflicts. SG101 then kind of dropped the gear only angle and became a general discussion list about surf music.

• Newbies that visit are often cut-off and essentially shown the door when posting a topic about certain gear like REVERB effects / pedals. Let them have at it I say. Jumping right in and suggesting they use the "search" feature is off-putting to a new visitor.

I disagree. They are asking a question so why not show them the wealth of information we already have. And I don't think anyone is rude about using the search feature. If people want to keep talking in the new thread that's fine, but it doesn't hurt to show new people the previous threads and how to use the search function at the same time.

• A more mobile / tablet friendly platform is a must imho. It's just the way many view web content now-a-days.

That's the plan.

• There's a vibe here that SoCal is the center of the Surf universe and everybody else is well,... outlanders. As I'm sure many realize and have noticed the various regional factions have sprung up across the web universe that now represent pretty much every Surf community from every neck of the woods. (Southern States, Mexico, Europe, etc.). It's a small world and getting smaller.

I don't buy this at all. I read this site everyday and I don't see this. There are a lot of people from SoCal on here and they all more or less know of each other from the many surf shows and the convention that they are blessed with, but I personally have not seen anyone (who wasn't being a dick) get treated badly because they are not from SoCal. We have people from all over the world on here and we have many discussions about the Euro surf music scene (Surfer Joe, North Sea Surf Festival), Mexico, and Latin America. No one is poo-pooing the Instro Summit. In fact many people from California have actually started going to and performing at the Instro Summit.

I really think SG101 kind of pooped the bed and how you correct that I don't know? SG101 3.0 with a more all inclusive and welcoming attitude via a humble campaign to regain members and new folk maybe??

SG101 isn't perfect and it isn't the best medium for everything or everyone but again I find it absolutely mind blowing that you think SG101 isn't inclusive or welcoming. Examples? Have you visited other forums? Maybe I'm prejudiced but I'd like to think SG101 is a bit more friendlier than other forums.

Fact is many many folks / bands have checked out because of the nonsense which is apparent or should be.

Okay.... I really don't think this is a fact... but okay if you say so.

• There's also some rather high-profile musicians that are aware of the site but will not participate. To all I say be careful when being snarky or ill-mannered or posting something derogatory about a band, like "that's not real Surf", etc.; you never know who is behind a handle or just reading posts on the page .

The appeal to unnamed authorities...

• Certain posters here are given a pass and are continually allowed to be rude and snarky. It seems many are above suspension / banning. While others are essentially web smacked for daring to question or rebut. You've got certain bands that the "establishment" fawns all over while other equally as good bands are dismissed or ignored. Too many other options to hang out and participate where you're not welcome or appreciated. SG101's community model is lacking imo. Bad attitudes and rude behavior drive off good folk. It seems to me it's quickly becoming a group for only the cool kids and I see the same 10 +/- people posting much of the time.

Are you sure we are talking about the same site? Bad attitudes? Rude behavior?

If you think a band isn't given enough attention here, why not post about them? Start a conversation, post some videos... that's what this site is for. It's possible that only you or a small number of people like the band, but it's also possible folks haven't heard of them. This is the problem to me: lack of discussion.

Who would you like to see banned exactly? For what?

A website like SG101 can't really be replaced by facebook imo. I follow several Surf related facebook pages and they do have some advantages, but it's really apples & oranges I say.
I do appreciate the website for what it is and view it as a great information depository for all things Surf and I'm sure managing a website takes a lot of time and effort. If you decide to give it up I doubt anybody would blame you. At my age (47) I really get that time is very valuable!

Perhaps hitting the reset button is the way to go? Best of luck to you either way.

Thanks.

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me

"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea

I have been a member of this site for a long time. I was in my early twenties when I joined and knew nothing about surf music or gear other then the fact my dad got me interested in the first wave bands from his music collection. I have learned so much here in the past decade, it's not even funny. But, in many cases I still feel like a newbie and want to learn more. I also feel this place has failed to attract a younger demographic that can carry the surf music torch. At times, I figured I'd never come back, but something always draws me back. Here is my humble input. I sure don't want to offend anyone.

1. I have spoken to former members via pm or on the phone who think a portion of the members come across as snark and snobby. Surf Music is almost exclusive to upper middle class people and it seems like these people don't always like opening the door for working class/blue collar people. This is my opinion and it is a great shame. I am not sure how this can be changed. But it is something to consider.

2. I agree with above posters. People should be able to ask anything and get answers without feeling like a burden. Old threads can be sited, but the questions should be answered on the same thread. Why are these things still not open for discussion?

3. Tabs. When I first joined I used to create tabs. They might not have been perfect, but they didn't take long either. I thought it would be an amazing idea if every member would tab 3 or 4 of their favorite surf songs and create a database of surf music for new members to explore. I recommended that idea years ago and the crickets chirped. If you want people to get people interested in the genre, it helps if they can play along with their favorite songs! We could even do video lessons or something to that effect. Their are too many great players on this site to let all this knowledge go to waste. Some things you can give away for free.

4. The gear section. Always been my favorite. If it was not here, I'd not be here. I'd like to see more reviews of gear and products. Maybe even video links comparing gear. It would be a great way for people to show off their stuff instead of posting boring pictures.

5. The classified section. It has been awesome. I have bought and sold using it and never had a problem.

6. Polls. They have been weak. What not allow members to create polls any more? The best poll was about Rumble, because it got people debating and learning.

7. California. Yeah those members seem like a club, but I am jealous because I wish there was a scene like that in my state. Many of the California members have been awesome teachers to me over the years like Ryan Ruiz and DP. Let them have their clique, we should try building our own!

8. Love the idea of band of the week. Maybe band of the month would be easier and give more spotlight. Maybe it can be "Bands of the Month" and it can showcase one vintage group and one active group. I like that idea.

I can probably keep going, but I won't.

I'm still troubled by WoodyJ's experience and Mr. Barracudas belief that this place is some (Edit) Dante's (end edit) shit hole where abuse is heaped on people and people are leaving in droves.

Look, if someone is being abusive I want to know about it so I can take action. I can talk to them or more likely just close their account.

But also please realize this is the internet, and it contains MANY different kinds of people from all over the world, many of whom will have a different way of looking at life. And also the anonymity of the internet may embolden some to say stuff they wouldn't say to your face. But if you find someone irritating, you don't have to interact with them. Just ignore them. Develop relationships with the positive people on the site. They do exist. I've met them in real life and they have changed my life forever!

Also please realize that the actions of a few irritating people are exactly that: a few irritating people. It is unfair to paint the entire community as unfriendly. I'm not trying to minimize actual abuse, because I know it has happened a few times in the past and might be happening now.

I really don't like talking about stuff like this and I rarely do. But maybe we need threads like this to clear the air and get stuff off our chest so we can continue on making music, websites, and friends.

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me

"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea

Last edited: Aug 29, 2015 16:00:46

Brian wrote:

this place is some Faustian shit hole where abuse is heaped on people and people are leaving in droves.

Also please realize that the actions of a few irritating people are exactly that: a few irritating people

Brian is illiterate and kicks cats.

I have more time to write about SG101, than my short post yesterday. When I started playing surf music in 1995, Phil Dirt's Reverb Central showed me that there was a community of musicians across the world that played surf music. That was a revelation for me in Nova Scotia. Next Cowabunga, and other yahoo sites allowed me to actively have conversations with others who enjoyed the same style of music. I thought it couldn't get any better, but then Brian developed SG101.

The format, and information and friends I have made through it is fabulous. Like many of you, it is the first site I look at every day, and I do check in several times each day, as well. Because of SG101 I have met, and played with a tonne of like minded musicians, and aficionados. The SG101 meeting at this year's Surfer Joe Festival was like ol' home week. I felt fortunate to he able to meet many of the SG101-ers face to face, and it was like I had known them for years. Because of SG0101 several people have looked me up ( and sometimes performed) when they came through NS (Big Wave Dave, Glasgow Tiki Shakers, Ninth Wave, Unsteady Freddie, and soon, Jeff Senn). I first met Lorenzo through here which has resulted in 2 Surfer Joe Festivals, an ep, and an Antigun tour. I have felt very grateful for SG101. I have no doubt that the success of Urban Surf Kings has a lot to do with being a member of this site.

All the sections are excellent. I cannot imagine having learned as much as I have without it. The knowledge, and friendliness of the people posting is superb (an international surf treasure). What I really like is that, in my experience, everyone's opinion is valued, whether someone is a beginner, or a professional. There are always someone onboard who gets people riled up, but such is the way of life. People will come and go, there will be posting frenzies and periods of low participation. Some people will have their opinions attacked, whether intentionally, or because of a misunderstanding. Heck, it even happened to me year's ago. For me, the pros far out weigh the cons.

Brian, we are extremely fortunate to have someone as dedicated as you volunteering your time to put this all together, moderate it, and to keep improving the site. And for free! It is nice that so many people that are active on this site are supportive of keeping SG101 going. Anything I can do to help, let me know.

Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

Last edited: Aug 29, 2015 12:52:11

This post of the Rev's is the perfect distillation of my feelings. SG101, and the Convention/Winter Surf Fest that sprang therefrom, are refuges from most of the cruft floating about the web. Meeting Brian at a Satan's Pilgrims show, Big Tiki Dude at everything, and some of the world's best and friendliest musicians at the Convention and various shows that I'm able to make makes me happy; this is directly attributable to this fine forum. I look forward to continuing on with this. I'm actually possibly the last person on earth not on FB, so if SG101 disappears, I'll be a bit lost. Cheers to you Brian and all that you do for so many of us. I hope that it doesn't become an albatross for you!

revhank wrote:

I have more time to write about SG101, than my short post yesterday. When I started playing surf music in 1995, Phil Dirt's Reverb Central showed me that there was a community of musicians across the world that played surf music. That was a revelation for me in Nova Scotia. Next Cowabunga, and other yahoo sites allowed me to actively have conversations with others who enjoyed the same style of music. I thought it couldn't get any better, but then Brian developed SG101.

The format, and information and friends I have made through it is fabulous. Like many of you, it is the first site I look at every day, and I do check in several times each day, as well. Because of SG101 I have met, and played with a tonne of like minded musicians, and aficionados. The SG101 meeting at this year's Surfer Joe Festival was like ol' home week. I felt fortunate to he able to meet many of the SG101-ers face to face, and it was like I had known them for years. Because of SG0101 several people have looked me up ( and sometimes performed) when they came through NS (Big Wave Dave, Glasgow Tiki Shakers, Ninth Wave, Unsteady Freddie, and soon, Jeff Senn). I first met Lorenzo through here which has resulted in 2 Surfer Joe Festivals, an ep, and an Antigun tour. I have felt very grateful for SG101. I have no doubt that the success of Urban Surf Kings has a lot to do with being a member of this site.

All the sections are excellent. I cannot imagine having learned as much as I have without it. The knowledge, and friendliness of the people posting is superb (an international surf treasure). What I really like is that, in my experience, everyone's opinion is valued, whether someone is a beginner, or a professional. There are always someone onboard who gets people riled up, but such is the way of life. People will come and go, there will be posting frenzies and periods of low participation. Some people will have their opinions attacked, whether intentionally, or because of a misunderstanding. Heck, it even happened to me year's ago. For me, the pros far out weigh the cons.

Brian, we are extremely fortunate to have someone as dedicated as you volunteering your time to put this all together, moderate it, and to keep improving the site. And for free! It is nice that so many people that are active on this site are supportive of keeping SG101 going. Anything I can do to help, let me know.

Rev

Rick