JONPAUL, maybe I can describe to some extent, very generally, that sound, and the appeal, to me at least. Basically, it was post-Punk.

4AD records were based in Manchester, and they were one of the defining production houses of that era. Many of the Euro bands were signed there, so if you want a great representation check out any release by them. (Stone Roses etc. came late '80, so it's a different era when they had a kinda '60's revival. I'm talking mostly early-mid '80's.)

Post punk, as genres go, is a wide and very eclectic collection of bands that came out of or influenced by the punk scene, retained some of the attitude, but mellowed it down. Like, after all the aggression was gone, what was left is mostly depression (not all). Yes, this music is melancholic (again, IMO, mostly, etc...), in a "crying in the rain" sort of way. Very romantic.

You might not be into that, I fully understand. But if you can get over it, you'll find some super imaginative musical ideas, what I like to call landscapes. It had escapism, they built brilliant worlds of sonic atmospheres, the records had a feel, a theme. The music was constant with the look, the album covers, the attitude. Records were like a painting, that you discover more and more layers as you dive into it. I love that, seems that the energy of Punk opened so many artistic doors, and all that were influenced were readily going to explore unknowns, and oh they did.

Some very ballsy productions, they were pioneers of a myriad of sounds that shaped the pop/rock world of today, even when they were regarded at the time as "indy", today it's of the mainstream basics.

Original use of: drum machines, of over the top distortion, of poppy riffs delivered with Punky intent, of layered guitars, digital Reverb all over the place, whiny vocals, black wearing mascara wielding skinny boys, self pity and loath, and total disregard to what's "cool". The ground was fertile, and they jumped right in, to make some very memorable music.

Last edited: Jun 16, 2012 13:51:20

Ariel, 4AD wasn't formed in Manchester. They are a London label, part of the Beggars Group. 4AD is an amazing label though. Factory Records was formed in Manchester and counts Joy Division and New Order. Factory also released the works of the 'Madchester' band Happy Mondays. There was also a Electronic release or two(Johnny Marr and Bernard Halford's project).

4AD, my favorite label, was a very defining label for the sound in England in the 80s and even until this day. Their most important releases in the 80s were the Cocteau Twins(one of the best bands from the era) and Bauhaus. Unimportant to this conversation they also released the Pixies first couple albums.

Stone Roses, another 'Madchester' band, were on Silvertone Records. Their first record is one of the great ones of the 80s in my opinion. They are the precursor to Brit Pop, in my opinion. Certainly Oasis', another Manchester band, biggest influence. They talked about the Beatles influence but they had the swagger and energy of the Stone Roses.

The Chameleons from Manchester were initially on Statik Records.

Smiths, again Manchester, were on Rough Trade.

New Order consists of the members of Joy Division minus Ian Curtis the singer.

What else... The sound of the bands from Manchester just are similar enough nor different enough from the bands from the rest of England/Britain. My favorites of the era not from Manchester are the Cure(a bit south of London, Echo and the Bunnymen(Liverpool), Cocteau Twins(Scottish), Jesus and Mary Chain(Scottish). I guess you have My Bloody Valentine(London) as well, but their sound/contribution is a little different.

One bit importance of this era is that almost all of these bands were on independent labels. Independent labels and record shops worked together to bring the music to the people and created a really great 'scene' at the time. The 90s saw this go away, but it has really made a come back, especially in the USA where it didn't exist so much during this era. It allows levels of freedom that allow artists to make the albums they want to with little pressure.

JakeDobner wrote:

England had a really great 80s when it comes to music. Add in the Cure, Echo and the Bunnymen, Jesus and Mary Chain, My Bloody Valentine, even U2(whose releases WERE great in the 80s).

Funnily enough, I don't really think of The Cure or The Bunny men as 80's bands, although they clearly released a lot of their stuff during that decade. Both released their first albums in the 1970's and I saw them both in 1979 (I get older the more I contribute to this thread).

I also had the great misfortune of seeing U2 in, I think, 1981. Here I can't agree with Jake; they were absolutely terrible, in my not so humble opinion. I have never been given cause to revise this view, although I admit that everyone else in the venue loved them.

Los Fantasticos

Last edited: Jun 17, 2012 06:37:56

Here's a quote from Morrissey's "morrissey condemns racism". a letter to the "New" Musical Express. I couldn't say it in better words myself, it is 100% true without this music rag most of the bands you're talking about would have never had a look in.

"The New Musical Express was a propelling force that answered to no one. It led the way by the quality of its writers - Paul Morley, Julie Burchill, Paul du Noyer, Charles Shaar Murray, Nick Kent, Ian Penman, Miles - who would write more words than the articles demanded, and whose views saved some of us, and who pulled us all away from the electrifying boredom of everything and anything that represented the industry. As a consequence the chanting believers of the NME could not bear to miss a single issue; the torrential fluency of its writers left almost no space between words, and the NME became a culture in itself, whereas Melody Maker or Sounds just didn't. Into the 90s, the NME's discernment and polish became faded nobility, and there it died - but better dead than worn away".

JakeDobner wrote:

djangodeadman wrote:

Although based in London, My Bloody Valentine were actually Irish, of course. I saw them when they were still a jingly jangly band supporting That Petrol Emotion. They were OK. I saw them a little while later, after the release of You Made Me Realise; they were absolutely awesome!

I totally forgot they formed in Dublin! And I forgot the current lineup wasn't always the lineup, I did some revisionist history it seems.

Easily done; I constantly reinvent the past to fit my view of the present

Los Fantasticos

Johnny Marr is certainly a great guitarist. As a current geezer who came of age in the punk-rock era, if you like Marr, I urge you to seek out recordings by a post-punk band called the Monochrome Set. Morrissey has even admitted being a big fan of them and when i first heard The Smiths , I thought it was The Monochrome Set's guitarist, the humorously self-named 'Lester Square'! They had a singer ,an east-Indian chap known as 'Bid',who was equally as fey and intelligent as Bryan Ferry, only a hell of a lot more humorous. i used to describe their sound as 'English dancehall meets Turkish surf'! Really creative stuff and they even did some great and often surf-style instrumentals-look for 'the Puerto Rican Fence Climber', '405 Lines', 'The Etcetera Stroll', and especially 'Andiamo'...
Their (mostly) vocal stuff is very clever and inventive, and they had a really cool theme song as well!
Their heyday was through the 80s...

Last edited: Jun 18, 2012 16:47:05

morphball wrote:

I watched that Fender video more times than I care to admit while waiting for my JM jag to arrive! There was an interesting Irish Times article I linked to a while back that has sadly become subscriber-only. Basically, Marr was interviewed about his experiences of being 2nd generation Irish living in England, and reminisced on how frequently hearing live Irish folk music played in his house while growing up had a pretty profound effect on his songwriting. (I think he described it as getting progressively dreamier and sadder as the night went on, which is how I would describe the Smiths sound too). It's always fascinating to hear how ethnicity (i.e., old songs) has played a part in revolutionary sounds, surf music included!

Anyway, Marr is one of the greats! And kudos for the mention of The Cult's "Love" album; man I wore that cassette out back in the 80's, along with "Electric".

If I'm not mistaken, Marr cites Bert Jansch as a major influence, so there definetely is something "folky" about his songs.

What I personally like the most about him is how he has the ability to take whatever band he's in to a new level, despite his involvement in the actual songwriting being far from that with the Smiths. The The's "Dusk" is probably the best example, but I think he had almost exactly the same effect on Modest Mouse when he joined them. It's no wonder Brock hasn't released another album after "We Were Dead..." - he just knows that one's untoppable without Marr by his side.

I was going to post this thinking "look what i found!" but I posted it in my first post. I'm posting it again, might be my favorite Smiths song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=opWlkKBJQrw#t=70s

Echo and the bunnymen! The Killing Moon!! Ocean Rain! Woohoo!

Okay......I read this post, and 10 minutes later put on the film Big Bang. The credits scroll....."Music By Johnny Marr".

The lattice of coincidence once again.