D22
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 2054
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Posted on Jan 31 2007 10:42 AM
DualShowman
-DGG
Not at all trying to start a pissing match. I just want to point out that, for surf guitar players, there is a limit to most Fender amp's usability: whenever the power section gets clipped so hard that the distortion characteristics of push-pull pentodes (should say "beam tetrode") become overwhelming. Luckily, and I understand why you've chosen to replicate certain Fender amps, that limit is very high. Even so, there are inescapable facts concerning a certain tube's characteristics.
FYI, neither the 6L6GC, 6V6 nor the 5881 tubes are pentodes. That's a fact. A 6K6 tube is. This argument you make with all this data about pentodes are about tubes that are not being used in the Showman nor in The Surfer.
I don't really understand the point of discussing tubes that are not in play. I just wanted to add that the consumer, manufacturer, etc. will use whatever works best and sounds best.
—
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DualShowman
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 69
Chicago
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Posted on Jan 31 2007 01:40 PM
-DGG
For what its worth, I did correct myself by stating "beam tetrode" in reference to the 6L6, 5881, 6V6. They still operate as a pentode. They are subject the same advantages and disadvantages as the pentode. They do have better distortion characteristics (less odd order harmonics), but by no means is a distorting beam tetrode easy on the ears. Given physical differences, the electrical characteristics of each are so similar that any differences are discounted. Thus, Beam+Tetrode = Pentode.
Look, we're playing on the same team. I was looking to help inform others that when you're pushing your Showman, Bandmaster, etc. your never going to reach a point where you can say, "That's how a 6L6 distorts!" or "Listen to that 12AX7 go!". It's a combination of many things. What sounds the best is what we're all used to at this point. I kinda like it, in fact. It's obvious you do, too, as do a host of others here and around the world. If we were really concerned about technicalities and not things like size, cost and efficiency, then we'd be playing through large, hot, inefficient amps with triode power sections.
Again, no malice intended. We're just a couple of amp fellas trying to make a name for ourselves...
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D22
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 2054
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Posted on Jan 31 2007 02:12 PM
None taken. I think the detour just loses folks and I believe we are on the same page.
—
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Jan 31 2007 05:16 PM
Tube nerds. If SG101 was a high school you guys would be the math club. Yet we'd all envy your brains and want to be you guys.
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DualShowman
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 69
Chicago
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Posted on Jan 31 2007 05:28 PM
Now Jake comes in an really starts slingin' s&%t around!!!
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D22
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 2054
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Posted on Jan 31 2007 05:32 PM
FYI, neither the 6L6GC, 6V6 nor the 5881 tubes are pentodes. That's a fact.
Thinking about this more, I should retract this statement. They (6L6GC's and 5881's) ARE technically pentodes -so my bad. Apologies. All beam power tubes typically are pentodes. Not all pentodes are beam power tubes.
I've always viewed them as beam power tubes because of their incredible efficiency and power output due to the alignment of the screen and the grid-directing a beam of electrons to the plate. Not all pentodes have this.
—
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diceophonic
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 2174
PacNW (Vancouver, Wa U.S.A.)
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Posted on Feb 04 2007 03:02 PM
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Feb 04 2007 03:14 PM
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diceophonic
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 2174
PacNW (Vancouver, Wa U.S.A.)
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Posted on Feb 04 2007 04:50 PM
JakeDobner
Very Clean.
Hey Jake thanks  Man it was sure a blessing to have the chassis untouched and not modded when I recieved my Showman, I did change out 2 of the blue vintage molded tone caps yestesrday cause they were leaky and threw in Mallory tone caps (yellow caps in the photo) sounds killer now 
— -Kyle
Beyond The Surf YouTube channel
Beyond The Surf Instagram
The Verbtones @ Instagram
The Verbtones @ Facebook
The Verbtones @ bandcamp
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Louie7
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 448
50,000 Light-Years Beyond Planet Claire
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Posted on Feb 06 2007 10:56 PM
wow/// I just read this whole thread.. too much information!!!! haha
but yeah....what he said. 
what can I add except this picture ??
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kick_the_reverb
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1338
Escondido, CA
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Posted on Feb 07 2007 12:21 PM
Solid state showman...
— The Scimitars
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19335
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 07 2007 12:25 PM
Is that one of those Super Showmans? I saw one of those on eBay once...what a freakin' monster. That went over like a candy bar in a punch bowl. Anyone who has the Teagle & Sprung Fender Amp book go look that up. It's crazy.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4544
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 18 2008 09:40 PM
I hope you don't mind me bringing this back from the dead but this seems the best place for my question. How much difference is there between the AB-763 circuit (as in a Blackface Twin) and the Brownface circuit of the Early Showman amps?
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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zak
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
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Posted on Oct 18 2008 09:52 PM
This post has been removed by the author.
Last edited: Sep 27, 2009 23:35:55
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4544
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 18 2008 09:55 PM
zak
The brown amps have pronounced mids, less shrill highs, and that mind-massaging "harmonic vibrato" circuit.
I can see how that would qualify it for holy grail status on its own.
I just started another thread obout the Weber Tore-Vibe which, IIRC, has a similar vibrato circuit.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4544
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 18 2008 11:21 PM
Does this mean that I'm mistaken in my notion that the Dual Showman Reverb (of the Silverface era) is nothing more than a repackaged Twin?
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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zak
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
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Posted on Oct 18 2008 11:30 PM
This post has been removed by the author.
Last edited: Sep 27, 2009 23:35:44
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4544
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 18 2008 11:56 PM
zak
they don't break up as early as a Twin Reverb.
That's almost a frightening thought.  Twins will break up, but it's a neck-and-neck race whether your ears will still be functional by the time it happens. I remember seeing those Dual Showman Reverbs back in the day and thinking that they looked a bit bizarre in that huge cabinet.
Barring a sudden influx of funds I doubt I'll be buying a vintage Showman or even a Gomez Surfer but I'm trying to learn more about these magnificent amps.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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LHR
Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: 2123
The jungle
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Posted on Oct 19 2008 07:27 AM
synchro
zak
they don't break up as early as a Twin Reverb.
That's almost a frightening thought. Twins will break up, but it's a neck-and-neck race whether your ears will still be functional by the time it happens. I remember seeing those Dual Showman Reverbs back in the day and thinking that they looked a bit bizarre in that huge cabinet.
Barring a sudden influx of funds I doubt I'll be buying a vintage Showman or even a Gomez Surfer but I'm trying to learn more about these magnificent amps.
Oh, man, I played an outdoor gig with a Twin Reverb and had it on 9-1/2 or thereabouts. (Kinda accidentally.) It was breaking up all right. It sounded like ass. My ears rung for days.
— SSIV
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4544
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 19 2008 11:00 AM
LHR
Oh, man, I played an outdoor gig with a Twin Reverb and had it on 9-1/2 or thereabouts. (Kinda accidentally.) It was breaking up all right. It sounded like ass. My ears rung for days.
I had mine up to about 8 once and the windows were rattling in their frames. I use a 12AY7 in the first stage of the preamp for each channel and that tends to raise the clean headroom. At 8 it was compressing a bit but not at all breaking up.
The CD that comes with "The Soul of Tone" has a bunch of amp samples including a Blackface Twin cranked up to "tilt". They will break up magnificently but the earth trembles.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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