WhorehayRFB
Exactly, like Hawthorne, CA. Maybe Brian could set up Hodad Guitar 101?

Ah, I see you've read Paul Johnson's notes on this, too. That one puzzles me, because as far as I can remember the whole frat vs. greaser thing, the Beach Boys would definitely be some kind of frats. At least as we knew frats in the hinterlands. So, even though hodad has been presented as a synonym for greaser, maybe it actually covers both greasers and non-surfer frats, or in general any non-surfer, especially if they start acting undesirably, like hostile, or, worse yet, like surfer wannabes?

Quoting the liner notes to Rare Surf. Vol. 1 “The South Bay Bands.” AVI CD 5009, 1996:5, Dominic Priore:

“Being the first band in the South Bay, the Journeymen were not considered “surfers” in the social respect; they were most definitely “ho-dads.” Paul Johnson affectionately points out that despite the attempt to adapt to the surf trend with Surfer’s Bues b/w Surfer’s Rule, they still “reeked of ho-dadness. In Surfer’s Rule when they say ‘Hey man, are you a ho-dad? … Nah, I’m a surfer’ … I mean who are they trying to kid? Take one look at the guys in this picture, and tell me these guys aren’t ho-dads!” (There's a picture of some of them staring down the camera from a car.)

“Fredericks recounts the ho-dad scene: “It was on Hawthorne Boulevard – a place that used to be an indoor swap meet. They used to have dances there … it was a car club thing. A big fight broke out as it always did …”

My reaction: You know, the Beach Boys were from Hawthorne ...

And as far as that, in his Liner notes to The Belairs: the origins of surf music 1960-1963, IL 1007, 1987:3 Paul Johnson says:

“From what I could discern, it was true that the Beach Boys then had only a cursory acquaintance with the beach. Apparently, Dennis had some firsthand experience with the new phenomenon, which Brian would then interpret in songs and which the Boys would then play. But it was evident that their own world was more like the one they sang about later – cars, cruising and California fun. That was very real to them – as real as the scene at Torrance Beach was to the Belairs.”

That's what I was thinking of.

Can I get an Amen for brother Shivers?!

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Tuck
That was very real to them – as real as the scene at Torrance Beach was to the Belairs.”

That's what I was thinking of.

Gotcha. Where the hell is Torrance Beach?

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shivers13

WhorehayRFB
Where the hell is Torrance Beach?

Where Dean Torrance of Jan & Dean hangs out of course!!! Sorry, couldn't resist.

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Thanks Brian!

BTW, I would guess it's between Palos Verdes & Redondo, but I've been a CA resident most of my life (native, actually) & I've never heard of it.

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FWIW, I don't mean any of that as any kind of a knock of the Beach Boys at all. No value judgements implied. No atempt to imply any negative attitude by Paul Johnson, either. He has always been appreciative of the Beach Boys in things I've read. I'm just curious how people used the terms and thought about the categories and he's one of the few people from the period who has something solid and useful to say on the subject. He's also one of the few musicians from the period who talks about his philosophy of playing and what he wanted to accomplish musically.

My interest in all this is historical and anthropological. I'm pretty sure we don't use the term "surf music" today like they did in the past. Today it really just means something like "60s California Instrumental" and whatever else appeals to you in a similar way. Which is fine. I don't think anybody really makes values judgements on the basis of the terms. Maybe if they grew up in the milieu and haven't quite escaped it. People do sometimes try to make the terms fit their value judgements. It's less "convince me it's surf music and I'll like it" than "I don't like it as much, or in the same way, so it must not be surf music." Sometimes it's more a question of "where do I draw the line in working with this." Hence John Blair's careful definitions of what he does and does not include in his catalogs. He's trying to impose some rigor on his definitions of what he covers, so that it rises above being a list of things he likes to be a list of things of type X.

As far as what I like musically, I'm pretty sure most of the bands I like most were "hodads." Some of the claimed to be surf bands. Some didn't. I'm interested to hear what they think, but it doesn't affect my taste for the music. My ear tells me that the big differences have more to do with the individual identity of the bands than anything. But there are some little things that do distinguish the sounds for different areas or make certain groups sound similar. I'd rather not stop thinking about these things because others have gotten tired out trying to make sense of it themselves. I appreciate it when they drop in and point out what I've forgotten.

It amused me some to finally realize that one reason I could never associate the various terms and "schools" (not highschools) with a particular sound or approach was that they were (apparently) based originally on locality and social affiliations, and were more or less independent of sound. "South Bay bands are South Bay bands because they come from South Bay." Oops. I had overlooked that.

I had to put up with a fair amount of nonsense about was I this or was I that from other kids who were into the clique stuff when I was a teenager. Not the California version, but the something analogous. That probably started me trying to figure out what they were talking about, just to avoid seeming out of it or possibly getting beat up. I never really did figure it out at the time, because I was too close to it, or at least my informants were, and then suddenly nobody cared about it anymore and I forgot about it myself. Maybe I just grew out of the age bracket that does care about it. I see similar things going on today, though the terms have all changed there seem to be more different cliques than there used to be.

I have figured out that in terms of the categories I am and always will be a nerd or possibly a geek. Something along those lines.

But back to the subject: as far as I'm concerned, Brian Wilson is a great American composer and the Beach Boys are a great American Band. (Ditto the Ventures.) (The Venturas are pretty good, too, if Belgian and so far of less historical weight.) The categories don't really address this issue of greatness or quality.

Taking things from the modern perspective, the Beach Boys are a bit unusual in the context of instrumental surf. They do fit into it, because they've played some good stuff in that vein, of course, and because the style of the "instrumental bands" is so heavy an influence in what they did as a singing band, at least at first. What makes them unusual is not that they sang a lot, because other bands sang too. What makes them unusual is that they were pretty good at it, that they created their own style of doing it, a style which defines a genre that they essentially invented, and that they endured and grew after the initial surf craze. Some other bands tried, but they succeeded. They were definitely part of surf music, too, whatever their social affiliations. Their existance warped the whole school of California music to flow a little differently. How could they not be part of it?

To the extent that their categorial status is disputed, I think it was initially just that question of where they were from and what were their social affiliations. Those were important to kids at the time, but not really relevant to the Beach Boys as musicians. Since then, with the rise of largely latter day categories like "instrumental surf," people have argued about their categorial status for other reasons. The early arguments and the more recent ones tend to be confounded in strange ways, perhaps because we don't understand (or in many cases, remember) what kind of categories the kids in the 60s were imposing. They seem to have been social. We interpret them as musical.

How could the first surf bands have been anything but a social category, when there were already similar bands nearly everywhere in California? Of course, the quality of those first bands was so obvious and the social phenomenon they represented was so big that they immediately sucked the other bands into the new category and started propagating similar bands like crazy, in California and elsewhere. Initially this was just the short-lived craze of the First Wave, but what that first wave created was so powerful and attractive that it eventually spawned a minor new classical art form that has sprung back to life and spread around the world. What it was initially was defined by the boundaries of the craze. What it is now is defined by the interactions of the current practicioners.

Something like that, anyway.

I think in our modern age we tend to overthink everything. Teenagers just want to have a good time.... that was certainly the case when I was a teen and apparently the same in the early sixties and other generations I'm sure.

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spskins
A guy I know that was in teen garage bands in the early 60s told how they were really relieved when the Beatles came along because they were way easier to cover than the Beach Boys, musically and especially vocally.

Awesome!

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A number of years ago I came to the conclusion that the value of having the answer to a question depended upon the question itself. In the context of this discussion it would seem to me that the core issue is the lack of a standard definition for Surf music. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the experience of listening to Surf music was probably quite different for someone in So Cal than it would have been for those of us living in the landlocked heartland. The first time I saw the Pacific ocean was roughly coincidental with the last nail in the coffin of the first wave. (Blame the Beatles, not me.)

In the absence of a standard, accepted definition for Surf music all we can do is express opinions and perhaps include some contextual information. To me, first wave Surf music is a fairly broad term, encompassing the clean guitar sounds of instrumental Surf bands and the people that sang about surfing. To this Minnesotan/Coloradan/Arizonan all of that music brings to mind life in Southern California where the beach was never too far away.

I also see Surf music, whether instrumental or vocal as being the product of its own time. The Twist craze lent its beat to a lot of instrumental Surf and the guitar sound seemed to have its roots with the intrumental Rock 'n' Roll of the late '50s. Likewise, the vocal bands that sang about surfing were influenced by earlier Rock 'n' Roll. Had the sport of surfing not existed I suspect that there still would have been a market for instrumental Rock 'n' Roll that featured clean, bright guitar sounds and plenty of reverb. The conection to surfing and the younth culture of southern California no doubt lent a great deal of impetus to this music and gave it a backstory of sorts. When the mental image of young surfers gathering on the beaches became entwined with this music the product became almost self publicizing. Like every marketer in history, the record companies jumped upon the opportunity and made the most of the advantage this image lent to their product.

websurfer
For those that haven't heard these---isolated vocal tracks of many of their songs. Easier to appreciate the complexity of the harmonies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEWcS9f4Ewo&feature=related

That's great. I especially liked God Only Knows a capella. How much work must it have taken to arrange that, then learn the parts and put it all together?

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

synchro
Like every marketer in history, the record companies jumped upon the opportunity and made the most of the advantage this image lent to their product.

Precisely. And does it matter?... Heck no. All that matters is that I can enjoy music that I would never had heard otherwise because I wasn't a teenager in California in the early 60's.

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