Menu
I think this is simply not the case. Many sounds were
dubbed "surf" outside the US to get on the bandwagon,
or in the same John Q. Public thinks Ventures when you
say surf, the but the real McCoy bears little
resemblance to Hank Marvin or anything else Shadows
related.
Reverb, not tape echo, diferent beats altogether,
entirely different use of rhythm guitar, melody
structures also very different. Maybe I've been asleep
for all these years, but where's the similarity, other
than guitar based instrumental? Aside from one
Challengers album, it's just not there.
Phil
--- Shawn Martin <> wrote:
> ...Hank and Bruce probably had a bigger effect
> through osmosis than did the Ventures. If you
> listen to a cross-section of surf from the early
> 60s to now, there is an ungodly amount of it that
> is blatantly influenced by Hank Marvin. Not only
> his tone, but his melodic writing style.
=====
Phil,
I agree with you, I KNOW the public thinks Ventures first when they
hear surf band(usually the Beach Boys before that). When I try to
explain my band to the ignorant I say "surf" they say, "like the
Beach Boys" I say, "no, like Dick Dale" they say, "huh" and I say
instrumental, "like the Ventures." Then they get it.
I think the Ventures directly influenced a majority of the surf
bands choices in instruments more than the Shadows did. Those
offset Jazzmasters must have looked good to the younger kids in the
surf bands. Maybe that's why we see a majority of Jazzmaster and
Jaguars being used in these bands. Dick Dale influenced them more
to pick up Stratocasters thank Hank Marvin. I hear a lot of the
Ventures style rhythms in surf, and like you said surf music went on
with reverb, it happened to be Fender reverb, Fender amps were big
as well. Weren't the Shadows big on their Vox amps? You didn't see
that in America until the Beatles. The Ventures sound via Leo
Fender osmosised into the surf sound.
Hardly anyone inside America knows who the hell the Shadows are. I
was talking to a group of 5 girls 19-23 last night, not one knew of
the Shadows, two knew of the Ventures via marching band, and the
other three recalled them when I mentioned "Walk Don't Run."
Bill
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
wrote:
> I think this is simply not the case. Many sounds were
> dubbed "surf" outside the US to get on the bandwagon,
> or in the same John Q. Public thinks Ventures when you
> say surf, the but the real McCoy bears little
> resemblance to Hank Marvin or anything else Shadows
> related.
>
> Reverb, not tape echo, diferent beats altogether,
> entirely different use of rhythm guitar, melody
> structures also very different. Maybe I've been asleep
> for all these years, but where's the similarity, other
> than guitar based instrumental? Aside from one
> Challengers album, it's just not there.
>
> Phil
>
> --- Shawn Martin <drumuitar@y...> wrote:
> > ...Hank and Bruce probably had a bigger effect
> > through osmosis than did the Ventures. If you
> > listen to a cross-section of surf from the early
> > 60s to now, there is an ungodly amount of it that
> > is blatantly influenced by Hank Marvin. Not only
> > his tone, but his melodic writing style.
>
> =====
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 05:15:03 -0000, supertwangreverb
<> wrote:
>
> The Shadows mind blowing guitar tones?? Vox amps, yuk! :)
>
??????
Wow... I always thought Mr. Marvin had a fantastic tone. Sure, he also
had his mind, fingers, Strat/Burns, and tape echo in the
equation...but the Vox was a large component to that wonderful sound.
I don't know too much about amps, in fact I have probably played
through a total of about 7 in my entire life. But I have seen Ivan
play about 5 times, and I always think he sounds great through his
Vox. In fact I can usually hear him the best out of all the other
bands on the bill (except when the sound guy tells him to turn down).
If I recall correctly Ivan has replaced the speakers in his Vox and
maybe had some other tweaking done on it though.
I would be interested in hearing from people who have played through
both vintage Vox and Fender amps and have them describe the
differences.
Thanks,
BN
The Tornadoes used a lot of tape echo in their early recordings. Of course a lot
of that
stuff was done before the outboard reverb tank.
But, I've often wondered whether Roly was influenced at all by Hanks sound, or
if it was
just coincidence?
-paul
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> Reverb, not tape echo, diferent beats altogether,
> entirely different use of rhythm guitar, melody
> structures also very different. Maybe I've been asleep
> for all these years, but where's the similarity, other
> than guitar based instrumental? Aside from one
> Challengers album, it's just not there.
>
> Phil
Brian,
I was joking, they aren't THAT bad. Go read my bio on my website.
Our old drummer moonlighted as a John Lennon impersonator. He had
an aresenal of AC-30s, 50's and Super Beatles. He also had one
custom made by the same guy who does 1964 the tribute's amps. It
was nice not having to lug an amp to practice so I'd plug into one
of those, or one of his Orange amps(another british amp). I had a
hell of a time getting my tone out of these amps. When I bought my
Bandmaster, he went out and bought a Showman, just because he "had
to have that Fender sound." So you could say I've played through a
fair share of Vox amps, and I've played through a fair share of
classic vintage Fender amps. I like the Fenders better. But it's
like comparing apples to oranges. Most people associate the Beatles
with Vox amps, they disliked those amps in later years, George
Harrison is quotes as to hating his tone with the Vox in the Beatles
Gear book. Infact they were using pretty much Fender from '66
onward. I like my JBL 15s and 12s, I dislike celestions.
Bill
--- In , Brian Neal <brian@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 05:15:03 -0000, supertwangreverb
> <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> >
> > The Shadows mind blowing guitar tones?? Vox amps, yuk! :)
> >
>
> ??????
>
> Wow... I always thought Mr. Marvin had a fantastic tone. Sure, he
also
> had his mind, fingers, Strat/Burns, and tape echo in the
> equation...but the Vox was a large component to that wonderful
sound.
>
> I don't know too much about amps, in fact I have probably played
> through a total of about 7 in my entire life. But I have seen Ivan
> play about 5 times, and I always think he sounds great through his
> Vox. In fact I can usually hear him the best out of all the other
> bands on the bill (except when the sound guy tells him to turn
down).
>
> If I recall correctly Ivan has replaced the speakers in his Vox and
> maybe had some other tweaking done on it though.
>
> I would be interested in hearing from people who have played
through
> both vintage Vox and Fender amps and have them describe the
> differences.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BN
> The Tornadoes used a lot of tape echo in their early recordings.
Of course a lot of that
> stuff was done before the outboard reverb tank.
> But, I've often wondered whether Roly was influenced at all by
Hanks sound, or if it was
> just coincidence?
>
I'm willing to bet, the Tornadoes were more influenced by the echo
they heard on rockabilly records.
Tornadoes (US) or Tornados (UK)?
--- obmosquito <> wrote:
---------------------------------
The Tornadoes used a lot of tape echo in their early
recordings. Of course a lot of that
stuff was done before the outboard reverb tank.
But, I've often wondered whether Roly was influenced
at all by Hanks sound, or if it was
just coincidence?
-paul
--- In , Phil Dirt
<phildirt@r...> wrote:
> Reverb, not tape echo, diferent beats altogether,
> entirely different use of rhythm guitar, melody
> structures also very different. Maybe I've been
asleep
> for all these years, but where's the similarity,
other
> than guitar based instrumental? Aside from one
> Challengers album, it's just not there.
>
> Phil
.
Visit for
archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.
=====
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> I was joking, they aren't THAT bad.
Okay then.... :-)
First you poo-poo the Surf Coasters then you go rippin' on old Hank's
amps...I wasn't sure what to think. Okay I have backed down to DEF CON
4 now. Just ribbin' ya!
Although let me twist the knife one more time.... You asked Ivan for
hard empirical evidence about Shadows vs Ventures sales. But then you
get your sample about American's knowledge of The Shadows from 5 20
year old girls? LOL :-)
I agree with you though. When I was first getting into the Shadows I
was asking some of my friends if they had heard of them. I got blank
stares. I think I got one to admit he was familiar with Apache though.
But he probably was thinking of
Sort of funny but prophetic story. The first time I went to see The
Troubadours (and Volcanos) in Indy, I stopped on the way to see my old
buddies in Illinois. I'm sitting in a Mexican resturant in Joliet
drinking a beer waiting for them to show up. The music they were
piping in was your typical Mexican resturant music (the almost polka
sounding accordian cabellero music). All of a sudden a Mexican'ized
version of Apache comes on! My mouth dropped open. I knew it was going
to be a good trip after that.
BTW, Wikipedia has an interesting entry on The Shadows:
BN
I wrote:
> I agree with you though. When I was first getting into the Shadows I
> was asking some of my friends if they had heard of them. I got blank
> stares. I think I got one to admit he was familiar with Apache though.
> But he probably was thinking of
Must be getting old, I can't even finish my sentences.
"he was probably thinking of" that crazy Norwegian or Swede or whoever
he was who broke Apache to the US, Jordan Ingemman (sp) and his Guitar
Orchestra.
B "One foot in the grave" N
> Okay then.... :-)
>
> First you poo-poo the Surf Coasters then you go rippin' on old
Hank's
> amps...I wasn't sure what to think. Okay I have backed down to DEF
CON
> 4 now. Just ribbin' ya!
I'd like to set one thing straight if I "poo-poo" any band it's not
that I'm "poo-pooing" the people in it. I think the guys in the
Surf Coasters are tremendously accomplished musicians. It's all a
matter of taste.
> Although let me twist the knife one more time.... You asked Ivan
for
> hard empirical evidence about Shadows vs Ventures sales. But then
you
> get your sample about American's knowledge of The Shadows from 5 20
> year old girls? LOL :-)
I didn't ask Ivan for sales evidence, I wanted to know were he was
pulling this list of guitar wankers from.
BTW - I think I might know a certain 35 y/o aged man in Indiana who
woulda loved to have been in that position :) It's all a campaign
here for the Aquanauts educate young girls about surf music :) You
should see some of these girls on our myspace.com. In their teens
and diggin' surf! We are also trying to stay out of jail.
Bill
--- In , "Brian Neal" <brian@s...> wrote:
> BTW, Wikipedia has an interesting entry on The Shadows:
>
>
This is actually very good! Lots of accurate facts. The only
problem is that it really doesn't talk much about the Shadows during
the sixties. But i'd recommend checking it out.
Ivan
> > BTW, Wikipedia has an interesting entry on The Shadows:
> >
> >
>
> This is actually very good! Lots of accurate facts. The only
> problem is that it really doesn't talk much about the Shadows during
> the sixties. But i'd recommend checking it out.
>
> Ivan
Ivan, the cool thing about Wikipedia is that anybody can change the
text! Go ahead and change it! Just click on those edit links and have
at it! Your changes will be immediate. Eventually someone will
probably see that you changed it and peer review it.
I've done it before. I updated the Link Wray entry with a corrected
URL just to see if I could do it.
Its a really neat idea. Here is more info:
BN
PS The Dick Dale and Surf Music entries could use some work. I am sure
someone on this list could help out with that.
