wooza
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
Posts: 1618
Ithaca, NY
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Posted on Sep 11 2006 09:17 PM
KJC
Face it, most people out there aren't as cool as we are....not as passionate about music as we are...they don't have the heart we have.....I think it's commendable.
No ramblings, you flatter us KJC. You made a whole bunch of good points, and I especially agree with you that surf is too hard for many people to relate to and feel for. It is frustrating, for those of us here who I'm sure pretty inspired by the genre, to see it so ignored and disregarded. It's brushed off even as a joke by many who haven't acquired the taste, and we all have to face the fact that surf is an acquired taste.
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HBkahuna
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 1778
Star, Idaho. Formerly lived in Surf City USA.
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Posted on Sep 11 2006 10:00 PM
I'll tell you what I dont get, they have a rap concert on the beach in Surf City, they will easily draw several thousand. I happened to be working the night of the Run DMC riot in another city & was in the middle of 13,000+ screaming idiots.
Have a surf concert at the pier even with Slacktone and some other good bands, you maybe get 500 people. The only time I have seen a surf concert shoulder to shoulder was July 4, 2005 when the Surfaris played at the HB Pier. It was absolutely packed. It was like going back in time to the early 60's. I wish it was that way for every show. I know the show was professionaly video taped too. I'd like to see that tape turn up.
They had 70,000 people for the car show in Belmont Shore this past weekend. I think the surf events are not promoted very well due to the cost involved.
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beatmantony
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 178
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Posted on Sep 11 2006 11:00 PM
Attendance in shows is really pathetic. Frankly, the only bar or club that our band really enjoy is the Baja Cantina. The built in crowd there seem to be genuienely interested and react to the music well even though they are not surf music fans and probably will never be. It is also refreshing to play in a bar when you are not asked the question by the owner or manager " how many people can your band bring in to give them business". Shows are nice, gives us a chance to see our friends but most of our bookings are from parties and private events. Events that want to have a beach, 60's SoCal or Tiki type theme.
Surf music has to become exciting again. Pulp Fiction did give surf a boost. Partly because the music was used and cleverly associated by Tarantino to something sinister and into the underside of society. Kinda mysterious.
One more thing, surf music is very alive in commercials. I will try to compile a list of current commercials that use surf one of these days.
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surfneptune
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 923
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 09:22 AM
the overly competitive nature of some of the bands in the genre doesn't help either. For us getting a gig playing with a band in another city is like pulling teeth.
(I edited this post for stupid ass grumpy comentary that had no relevance)
I apologize
— THe NEpTuNeS
Last edited: Sep 12, 2006 16:21:41
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skeeter
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 2063
Virginia, USA
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 10:04 AM
I think KJC is right, lots of other genres have the same low attendance problems. Surf is just like anything else, some bands draw a lot often, some are spotty and some don't draw much at all.
— Paul
Atomic Mosquitos
Bug music for bug people is here!
Killers from Space
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11058
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 11:07 AM
Hopefully you won't think me a heretic when I say this. Even though I'm obsessed with surf music, I enjoyed the fact that the Kilaueas were sandwiched between a garage band and the Barbary Coasters, female led frat type band. I tend to get overwhelmed with all instrumental surf shows - it may be too much of a good thing.
It's been said before, that if we concentrate on getting inter-genre shows like that, it may raise our profile as a genre. My belief is that a lot of singers have fragile egos, and often feel very competitive with the other bands. Surf bands would not create that competitive feeling, and vocal bands may discover they are more comfortable playing with one.
My band the TomorrowMen are going to be really pushing to play with nonsurf bands, so stay tuned and track our progress - or lack thereof.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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mom_surfing
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 5309
the outer banks of north carolina
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 11:22 AM
a few random comments after reading all the posts.
i'm driving 330 miles to see slacktone/atomic mosquitos. i drove 450 miles to see satans pilgrims/nebulas. there are NO surf shows here or near here and i have to be selective because of the distance/interference with work/etc. the closest show i've been to is dick dale and that was 150 miles.
in my opinion the only reason jack johnson got popular with the teens/twenties is because the music was used as soundtrack to a surfing movie. some of his fans wouldn't have been caught dead listening to his style of music until it got 'cool' status because of it's connection to surfing. i saw this happen with several of the punk rock kids that have worked for me in my surf shop.
a few of us played at a private party the other night and tested out a set list to see what made people get up and dance or take notice. since we had a singer we did about 50/50 vocals/instrumentals. 'california sun', 'brand new cadillac' and 'what i like about you' brought the women to their feet as did 'moving target' (jon and the nightriders) and 'cecelia ann' (pixies version). they were actually requesting we do more surf instrumentals just because they liked the sound of them.
when i picked up my 15 yr. old son and his friends the other day i was playing a live insect surfers cd and in the tune they break into miserlou briefly and one of the kids says 'hey, there's that song'.
and,as i'm rambling, my last thought about how surf can be spread.....a lot of magazines now are offering 'free' dvd's with the magazine purchase. i don't know how one would pursue getting their music on some of these soundtracks, but it would be a way to get more exposure.....
carol
— www.surfintheeye.com
Last edited: Sep 12, 2006 13:39:33
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Double-Crown-Records
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1224
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 11:44 AM
I posted this in the Kilaueas thread and on the Cowabunga list, but some of this is appropriate to this thread as well...
First of all, I want to thank all of you who have come out to see the Kilaueas play in California. I talked to them the other day (Friday) and they were very happy with the way the tour has gone so far. Yes, there could have been more people, but they are really treating this as a vacation first, working tour second. They just really wanted to come to the US and play surf music where it all started. They also said merch sales have gone well - they actually sold almost all of their CD's and I had to send an emergency stash to Portland so they'd have CD's for the Dick Dale show there tonight.
In my mind a couple of things have hurt attendence at each of the shows. 1) They are playing a few too many shows, which is due to the fact that they wanted to be in the US for three weeks. They wanted to play as much as possible, so we booked probably 2 or 3 more shows than we probably should of. 2) Because they came over without amps, reverb and drums, we had to pair them with at least one other surf band willing to let them borrow gear for their set. If they had their own gear, I definitely would have tried to book a mix of surf and non-surf bands. I think bills involving a surf band are most successful (attendence-wise) if there is a mix of surf and non-surf. Like mentioned earlier, surf is not popular here in the US these days, but live music in general is as popular as it's always been.
Please don't feel bad that they've come all this way to play to 30-40 people per show. Yes, ideally, there would have been more each night, but our expectations weren't too high. And the merchandise sales help a lot. Bands these days can double their take on sales of CD's and t-shirts. Heck, I sold merch for Satan's Pilgrims and the Nebulas in Seattle a few months ago - they got a few hundred dollars each at the door, but overall I sold about $600 worth of merchandise to a crowd of about 75-100 people. The other thing is that the shows coming up will probably do better than the CA shows - they play with Dick Dale tonight, which'll be good, then shows in Portland, Seattle and the big one in Bellingham on Saturday.
Sean
Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336 - USA
www.dblcrown.com
http://doublecrown.blogspot.com
— Sean
Double Crown Records
www.doublecrownrecords.com
Surf CD's / Vinyl / Fanzines / DVD's
Aloha Screwdriver - Lunar Wobble CD
The Nebulas - Euphorion LP / CD
Supertubos - The Fourth Drive CD
Continental Magazine - Issue #38 w/17 Song CD
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Double-Crown-Records
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1224
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 11:53 AM
Another factor playing here is the fact that your average surf fan is probably 30-50 years old. This is an age where people have careers, kids, family, house maintainence and other stuff going on. I know when I was in college I went to about 40-50 shows/year. Now that I'm 37, my love for music is just as strong, but I probably only make it to 5-10 shows per year. I used to drive to Seattle more for shows as well (about 80 miles away) - now it has to be a once in a lifetime show, or a big-time touring band show in an arena (with an 8pm start time) to make me even think about going.
I think it is important to have a gimmick, or something that sets a band apart. The Kilaueas' "gimmick" is that they are from Germany - not much of a gimmick, but it has helped when setting up this tour. Los Straitjackets have a gimmick and they play regularly to 100-200 people/night. Man Or Astroman? just reunited for a couple of shows and played to large crowds. They could reform permanently today and be just as popular as Los Straitjackets.
I think the winning combo is:
--Have a gimmick
--Play well (but not too well, if you know what I mean) and have good songs.
--Tour regularly
--Release records regularly (on an established label, even if it isn't a big one)
--Don't shy away from occasional vocals (Man Or Astroman, Los Straitjackets and Dick Dale all do a few vocals)
--Play with non-surf bands at least some of the time
There are probably some other factors, but that's what I can think of at the moment.
Sean
Double Crown Records
www.dblcrown.com
— Sean
Double Crown Records
www.doublecrownrecords.com
Surf CD's / Vinyl / Fanzines / DVD's
Aloha Screwdriver - Lunar Wobble CD
The Nebulas - Euphorion LP / CD
Supertubos - The Fourth Drive CD
Continental Magazine - Issue #38 w/17 Song CD
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WaveOhhh
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
Posts: 236
Plantation, FL
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 12:26 PM
I'm no expert on getting crowds, but larger the crowds, the more opportunities you will have to play. So here is what I try to do:
Pick your audience!
Break-out of the traditional I-must-play-in-a-bar syndrome.
Identify a group of active or athletic people who are given to having a good time and dance no matter what music is played.
Advertise as much as possible.
Schmooze with other bands, share equipment.
Move to the East Coast and Join NESMA.
Unsteady Freddies First Saturday Surf Shindig is like a club meeting and everyone wants to catch-up with everyone else, aside from hearing good surf rock.
Donate a gig or two to a charity fundraiser. Many times I get offers for parties and those pay well and are fun.
Beg really attractive women to come dance whiler your gig. Sex sells.
— What day is Surf Rock's birthday? Looks like Surf Rock and I was born the same year. Maybe we are both Libras?
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Kawentzmann
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1062
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 02:11 PM
DannySnyder
â¦One argument for a collective approach is that it's hard enough to put our spare time energy into being a band, let alone trying to single-handedly raise awareness of the surf genre.
Today you would need professionals to build up a bigger audience. A full time manager, a record label, bookers and last but not least musicians. Any scene that consists of spare time enthusiasts is in the dilemma of not getting past small clubs. Surf has always been different from Jazz, f.e., because Jazz sells enough records for major companies.
Surf has always been viewed as a niche. And the in-the-know guys want it that way, because they are cool. I have the feeling that is what attracts the core people, being into this secret little thing. And they donât want to lose that.
And if a band changes to be more approachable for the young ones, ok it wonât be Surf anymore. But who, except these few hundred guys here, cares? On the other hand, there are posts saying Huevos Rancheros are surf - would they be considered so if they played arenas?
With a historically small scene, the pool of talents has always been tiny. A guy writing music has got so many more options today than in 1963. He might have written a killer instro, if he lived back then, but maybe heâs into Metal, Techno, Pop, Gothic etc. The smart guys, who know they have the talent, are going for the biggest market, because thereâs a chance of living in an 8 room mansion in two years.
In my opinion we need:
- professionals
- talents
- not behaving like a secret club
KK
— The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann
You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.
Last edited: Sep 12, 2006 14:30:14
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Kawentzmann
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1062
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 02:17 PM
wooza
⦠I especially agree with you that surf is too hard for many people to relate to and feel for.â¦
I have to disagree. Two words: Pulp Fiction
KK
— The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann
You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.
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Kawentzmann
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1062
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 02:24 PM
DannySnyder
I tend to get overwhelmed with all instrumental surf shows - it may be too much of a good thing.
It's been said before, that if we concentrate on getting inter-genre shows like that, it may raise our profile as a genre. My belief is that a lot of singers have fragile egos, and often feel very competitive with the other bands. Surf bands would not create that competitive feeling, and vocal bands may discover they are more comfortable playing with one.
My band the TomorrowMen are going to be really pushing to play with nonsurf bands, so stay tuned and track our progress - or lack thereof.
That is a very good point: and now for something completely different. The sixties surf hits stood out in radio shows playing Johnny Mathis, Frankie Avalon and Elvis. Today the ad agencies will soon discover, that their spots donât stand out anymore, which feature Surf background music, because itâs too many of them already!
KK
— The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann
You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.
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kilometers
Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 36
San Francisco
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 04:03 PM
As I think about my exposure to music I agree with many things that were written and I disagree.
I am 20 years old, and I grew up in rural suburban Northern California. I really did not have a large exposure to instrumental surf until I met my roommate in college who introduced me to what I had been waiting for. I had herd Dick Dale and a few others a teenager, but because of where I grew up I had no idea that surf music was still being played. MOST OF THE POPULATION DOES NOT KNOW IT EXISTS.
What I did get into in high school was traditional Celtic music which has a tight small worldwide scene. My friend's father set up shows and had bands stay in his home. I played in session with people of all ages who were happy to have me clunk along and learn songs, there was a very inclusive community. The surf scene needs to re-create this in a different way.
Celtic musicians along with many other folk and traditional ethnic musicians stick together. They play shows together and promote each other. --> The Surf scene should do what some people, like Danny, have recommended. We need to band together with other "traditional" genres. Rocka/Pyscho-billy, Vocal surf, Tiki, garage rock etc.
Lastly, only play all ages shows. You cannot capture a young crowd if there you can only invite people who are over 21. By that age most people are set in there ways and will not change for much, especially when they have booze and sex on their minds.
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JetBlue
Joined: May 30, 2006
Posts: 746
Cool, CA
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 04:58 PM
I agree with kilometers that exposure is a big issue. I just discovered surf myself this year, and then only by accident when I heard the Pyronauts at a car show (thank you Pyronauts). There must be a million other guitar players out there currently burning out on static pentatonic scales just waiting for some melody and ENERGY. They probably have SOs and friends they'd bring along to surf shows too. I say we start with the guitar players.
I also agree that surf will never have widespread commercial appeal (not sure I'd want to see that either), but I'm sure the fanbase could be much bigger than it currently seems to be. They won't come to you if they don't know you're there, so I say find them where they are; at non-traditional venues like fairs, car shows, big private parties, bay to breakers (Meshugga), etc...
— Don
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25603
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 06:49 PM
lots of good ideas here,
and Adrien and others have posted some good things on cowabunga also.
Its funny somebody said that we need to market the youth by playing all ages shows, but every sunday at the free all ages parking lot shows at the Surf Museum, beisdes little kids, Im(at 35) usually the youngest person there. so there goes that theory( sorry).
(Edit) sorry sometimes Warren shows up. or a surfer dude and his wahine might come cruzin along and sit down, but leave for the beach or party after about 5 to 15 min.
I am still of the mindset that if there was tons of money put behind it, to promote it, there would be some poeple that would come into the scene, Just look at crappy dance music(Backstreetboys.britney spears)
if you polish a turd and promote it enough, people will buy it. dumbasses
Jeff(bigtikidude)
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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dan
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 60
southern ontario
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 07:05 PM
Maybe the average person thinks that surf music is just "oldies" music and lumps it with 50's-60's Happy Days type music? In some cases, they'd be right. Maybe the nostalgia side of surf keeps it from the mainstream. We all know surf can get much much deeper than that, but Joe Average doesn't...
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TFJ
Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 278
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 07:23 PM
The best thing would be to have fewer 'surf shows' and more surf bands mixed in the bill at non surf shows. Basically, at a surf show, you're preaching to the choir..and the choir isn't that big, nor does it contain any hot ass...I mean attractive young ladies with respectable moral character and a certain willingness to learn about different musical subgenres. There are certain exceptions - Hotel Utah, Freddie's Surf Shindig, HBSM which are regularly scheduled events built around surf music, but outside of those, setting up an all surf show in Buttsteak, Montana and trying to get a crowd is quite the task.
Unless one of the bands is a well-established touring act with a fan base (Dick Dale, Los Straitjackets, Bomboras, etc), a show bill may be better served with a nonsurf band or three to mix it up. A surf band at a non-surf show will certainly stick out more just because they don't sing & if they happen to be good, they will probably attract new fans because they are different, as opposed to trying to get more "surf fans" to come out to surf shows.
If you promote your band, the genre will be served admirably. If you promote the genre first, your band may not benefit.... a potential fan might get bored and leave after hearing Mr Moto's Midnight Massacre performed for the third time in three hours.
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25603
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 07:34 PM
Jim does have a great point,
I have been to many many Insect Surfers shows, where they were the only Instro band on the bill at a punk, dive bar in LA.
Some of the bands they have played with have been good, and I'll go see them from time to time on the chance of a non surf show night.
and The Insects do have a wider than just surf crowd fan base.
When they did their 20th anniversary show a month or 2 back.
the audience was about 200 or so, and I only knew about 20 from the surf crowd. The Rest were just fans that had come across them by accident by seeing them with other (non surf)bands over the past 20 years. Though Insects also play all surf shows too.
I say do both, but whatever pays better, do more of.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Sep 12 2006 08:44 PM
I don't like going to bars. That is what keeps me away from most surf shows in the area. It has to be a big show to get me to go. I kind of have a "people I don't know"-phobia.
I also don't like seeing live music when I don't know the songs in advance/
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