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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Ventris Dual Reverb/True Spring Reverb pedal

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I've had the True Spring for about a year now. Years ago I jumped to real tubes and springs very early in my surf journey, however, I have always kept an obligatory 'just in case' reverb pedal. The Catalinbread Topanga was that pedal for several years. For whatever it is worth to you, I listed and sold the Topanga the day I plugged in and played the Source Audio True Spring.

The True Spring was good right out of the box, although I don't know why they didn't load one of the 3 pre-sets with the engine that gave birth to the stand alone pedal?!?!?! That would have made it really good right out of the box. You have to use the Neuro app to load that engine.

The Venrtris Outboard and Ventris True Spring engines are much better than the mfg burned in 'Tank'. However, even those have too much made up artifact and effect going on for my taste, especially when playing just the pedal without the band.

I spent a good bit if time yesterday tube and tank rolling with my G-Spring, which inspired me to see how much I could improve on Source Audio's Outboard engine settings. Thankfully, the Neuro editor gives quite a bit of control without being overwhelming.

For anyone interested in checking them out, I've published 2 versions to the Neuro/Source Audio Community today:

  • NOS 6G15 Finely tuned and as close as possible to my Gomez G-Spring for my main tone and natural decay.

  • NOS 6G15, brighter top end Finely tuned and as close as possible to my Gomez G-Spring for my main tone and natural decay, with a touch more top end and slightly reduced bass on the reverb.

I've arrived at these settings A/B'ing it with my Gomez G-Spring through my Surfer w/ 15" tone ring cabinet. I have to imagine my configuration of the pedal would be a little different if playing through a Blackface style amp, or any other style amp for that matter. Hopefully that doesn't make a massive difference, and these are usable more broadly. And if it does, well, you do have the knobs on the pedal that can be tweaked, and anyone can further edit the deeper settings in Neuro.

Self Critique:

This is as close as I could get after a fair number of cycles A/B'ing with my tank. It sounds pretty good to me, however, like all digital emulations of '6G15 Outboard Reverb', it is not the same as the real thing. That especially shows when you are trying to get the infamous palm muted drip. The adjustments I tried that push the drip further and closer made for too many other trade-offs that sounded, well, like exaggerated outboard reverb. Like anything in the emulation realm, you're gonna give up something!

Of course reverb is like a good beer or fine wine; one's amazing is another's swill, so there is that.

I would be curious to hear any feedback if you try these patches.

Of course, if you're writing to tell me it's Puke , well, you are welcome to create and post your taste in reverb too. Thumbs Up

Cheers to a surfier 2021, y'all!
Cheers

Fady

El Mirage @ ReverbNation

Last edited: Jan 10, 2021 17:03:59

We've come a long way from when the BOSS Fender FRV-1 and the Topanga were the next best sounding thing to a real outboard tank in a pedal.
IMO, the Topanga still holds up well as an all around reverb pedal; the FRV-1 not so much.
The Ventris and EHX Oceans 11 get pretty darn close to my ears and you can't beat the ease and convenience of a pedal.
That being said, for pure organic drip you can't beat a good old fashioned tube driven outboard tank or a Surfy Bear.
My tank is only a Chinese knock off based on a 6G15 but it's still all tube w/ 17" two spring pan and hand wired. I threw a NOS 6K6 in it and it gets the "sound".
The way things are going these days, I expect that they will nail it in a pedal sooner than later.

Last edited: Jan 10, 2021 21:23:58

Surfadelphia wrote:

We've come a long way from when the BOSS Fender FRV-1 and the Topanga were the next best sounding thing to a real outboard tank in a pedal.
IMO, the Topanga still holds up well as an all around reverb pedal; the FRV-1 not so much.
The Ventris and EHX Oceans 11 get pretty darn close to my ears and you can't beat the ease and convenience of a pedal.
That being said, for pure organic drip you can't beat a good old fashioned tube driven outboard tank or a Surfy Bear.
My tank is only a Chinese knock off based on a 6G15 but it's still all tube w/ 17" two spring pan and hand wired. I threw a NOS 6K6 in it and it gets the "sound".
The way things are going these days, I expect that they will nail it in a pedal sooner than later.

I had an FRV-1 and it was pretty good, for the time. It was a bit metallic sounding, to my ear. I found a Topanga at Rainbow Guitars, tried it out and bought it on the spot. It’s not as good as a vintage 6G15, but it’s pretty good. I’ve tried other pedals and heard some that were quite impressive, while others were disappointing. One particular pedal, which was quite expensive, I found very disappointing. OTOH. I’ve seen some modestly priced pedals which were very pleasant surprises.

Playing a good example of a vintage 6G15 is revelatory; the sound is amazing. Ultimately, I would agree with Surfadelphia that pedals will progress to the point that they will nail it. It might take the next generation of DSPs to get us there, but I’d be surprised if we didn’t get there at some point in time. Even a literal spring reverb is an emulation of a naturally occurring effect, so it comes down to emulating an emulation. The challenge is the spring unit, itself. A Surfy Bear has the FET based preamp that does great job, but the chaotic nature of the springs may take a bit more DSP power to emulate perfectly than we currently have available in most pedals.

I’m not a DSP programmer, but I’ve done some coding in my day and have looked into DSP programming deeply enough to know that reverb is not one of the easiest things to emulate with a DSP. I have to say that some of the products already on the market are impressive, to say the least. I would venture that for the average audience, a pedal such as the Topanga or Ocean’s 11 would probably be more than adequate.

One other factor is simply how much gear you want to schlep. If I was doing a full-on Surf gig, I would probably take my Twin (disguised to look like a blonde Showman) and my tank, but if if I’m playing a middle of the road gig, with vocals and a mix of early ‘60s Rock and Country, I’d probably just use my Topanga, or even just crank up the Plate Reverb in my Hall of Fame mini. I’m not a purist. Smile

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
My Guitar WebSite
Dead Thread

synchro wrote:

Ultimately, I would agree with Surfadelphia that pedals will progress to the point that they will nail it. It might take the next generation of DSPs to get us there, but I’d be surprised if we didn’t get there at some point in time. Even a literal spring reverb is an emulation of a naturally occurring effect, so it comes down to emulating an emulation. The challenge is the spring unit, itself. A Surfy Bear has the FET based preamp that does great job, but the chaotic nature of the springs may take a bit more DSP power to emulate perfectly than we currently have available in most pedals.

I think the technology is already there, and has been for a while. The chaotic nature of springs is still based on a few simple known physical laws, that aren't fundamentally harder to emulate than other natural phenomenons to a satisfying degree, like overdriven tubes or the breaking of light. Simple principles, yet complicated results.

The problem lies within the attention realm and marketing goals, i.e. humans.
Easier with reverb emulations is to sound realistic on the tails. Many still fail, but many reverbs succeed to the point of actually simulating real spaces convincingly, algorithmically (as opposed to impulse response). After all, when civilians think reverb, that's what they think of.
Spring reverb usually fall short with what happens with the drip as we call it, the transient, the attack (as has been testified in this thread and many others), and it's response curve to picking attributes like velocity, pitch, technique etc.
Why? Like I said- not enough attention paid by the designers/programmers. But we as surf enthusiasts, absolutely pay attention to it, far more than any players/listeners of any other genre. We get into minute nuances no one else does. The drip of the 6G15 has a huge weight in what defines the sound of Surf, and we really, REALLY care.
You can't just blindingly increase the drip on all fronts (via mix, dwell or whatever), at the expense of sounding cavernous and hollow. A game of compromises is out of the question.
As long as a serious Surf player/listener doesn't have an integral part of an emulation's development team, we won't get it. As soon as one has, we will.

Last edited: Jan 11, 2021 14:51:01

Glad to see this thread still going. Has anyone given the Spring mode on the new Keeley Hydra a whirl? Wondering if it’s worth messing with for surf. Interesting, Nicole from the Surfrajettes posted a video showing her guitar and I was surprised to see her using an EHX Canyon for reverb! Doesn’t really drip but sounds great while they are playing!

I did a small comparison between the Hydra Spring and a 6G15.

See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh7DGhdQSIc

Around 33:51

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