LHR
Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: 2123
The jungle
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Posted on Jan 17 2017 12:25 PM
By the way, I think for bands wishing to make an album, a CD is still a good idea. People seem to be asking for them all the time after a live set. And, an actual CD pressing gets the release into the searchable online databases like Allmusic, Discogs, Gracenote, Google and so forth. Having a genuine UPC code for a tangible product is essential for exposure on the WWW. Much like an ISBN for books, this legitimizes the thing.
A vinyl companion release also make sense in this regard. (Don't do like everyone else and shamefully neglect a separate mastering for the format!)
My question is now about digital versions on some kind of physical media. Are those USB flash drives with the LP (and maybe other content like images, videos, etc.) a useful form factor or a pointless gimmick? We're due to put out out a new record and this idea came up. I have mixed feelings.
— SSIV
Last edited: Jan 17, 2017 12:39:26
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ElMonstroPorFavor
Joined: Sep 01, 2006
Posts: 2734
New Orleans, LA
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Posted on Jan 17 2017 01:45 PM
LHR wrote:
I'm with Brian, essentially, I guess. Who wants physical media clutter? My vinyl takes up too much room already. Like josheboy, my CDs have long since been packed away in boxes and the data has been extracted to my media server. Those still on the shelf are the ones I acquired at gigs and serve only to remind me of good times. They have only extrinsic value. That said, a few discs are really fun to own. The slick presentation of TomorrowMen's Futourism comes to mind. Cool package! But I never actually listen to the disc except while ripping to lossless format. FLAC is where it's at.
I love Futourism's packaging but can you imagine all of that great art at vinyl size? As it is it's taking up the space of like 3 CDs on my shelf.
— Storm Surge of Reverb: Surf & Instro Radio
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ArtS
Joined: May 09, 2008
Posts: 1370
Isle of Kent, MD
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Posted on Jan 17 2017 02:19 PM
I still like CD's although I have moved more frequently to downloads if I am not totally into the artist or style of music. So I buy CDs when available and then download the artists I only want one or two songs from. Clutter is what you make it. I guarantee there are other things in the house that can go out before my Cars "Candy-O" album cover. One person's clutter is another person's cherished memories.
I wish I could get CDs in album cover size. I miss sitting there, listening to an album, looking at the pictures and reading the liner notes.
— Surfcat
MARCH OF THE DEAD SURFERS! (2024) - Agent Octopus
Wake up Jimmy! It's Christmastime! (2024) - Agent Octopus (Single)
YOUTUBE - Agent Octopus Surf
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philjudd
Joined: Dec 05, 2016
Posts: 151
Queensland
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Posted on Jan 17 2017 02:29 PM
No. Like LP's making a comeback they'll be around even if only in collections.
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11058
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Jan 17 2017 07:45 PM
ElMonstroPorFavor wrote:
LHR wrote:
I'm with Brian, essentially, I guess. Who wants physical media clutter? My vinyl takes up too much room already. Like josheboy, my CDs have long since been packed away in boxes and the data has been extracted to my media server. Those still on the shelf are the ones I acquired at gigs and serve only to remind me of good times. They have only extrinsic value. That said, a few discs are really fun to own. The slick presentation of TomorrowMen's Futourism comes to mind. Cool package! But I never actually listen to the disc except while ripping to lossless format. FLAC is where it's at.
I love Futourism's packaging but can you imagine all of that great art at vinyl size? As it is it's taking up the space of like 3 CDs on my shelf.
Thanks guys. That was the plan Hunter, makes our CD real easy to find 
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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ErnestHernandez
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Posts: 596
The Alamo City, TX
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Posted on Jan 17 2017 11:11 PM
I don't think CDs are obsolete. I think they are a necessary part of the path in an overall strategy in regards to distributing/selling your music.
But if you have the brand and fan base that a band like Satan's Pilgrims has...vinyl(with a companion digital download) is the way to go.
— https://kingpelican.bandcamp.com/
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Jan 17 2017 11:40 PM
ErnestHernandez wrote:
I think they are a necessary part of the path in an overall strategy in regards to distributing/selling your music.
I'm not going to disagree, but add that 80% of our album sales are digital and that is taking sales at gigs into account. Our music either isn't worth the price + shipping of our physical media or people just don't want physical media. Our vinyl sales much better than our CD as well.
While not disagreeing still, I think people need to discover a way to replace the CD. Outside of a digital download there is no way. How we do this is we print 10x10 cardstock versions of our album artwork and put a download code on the back so people can have something physical, part of a presentation, and also the music digitally.
It is hard...
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11058
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Jan 18 2017 12:25 AM
Great idea Jake! I may end up trying that.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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ErnestHernandez
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Posts: 596
The Alamo City, TX
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Posted on Jan 18 2017 12:39 AM
JakeDobner wrote:
It is hard...
Truer words...
I have no doubt that in Jake's case (and in many other's) that digital sales are outpacing physical media sales. But in our case, digital sales are disrupted by Spotify. So while we gain a larger audience with that vehicle, no real money is being recouped...folks are not gonna pay to download our music when they can save it on Spotify for free. But that's a discussion for another thread.
Back to CD's...they are important to a band such as ourselves who are trying to create a space in the market. The process of recording, mastering and manufacturing a CD still gives you a bit of credibility with reviewers, retailers/resellers and radio/podcast producers as well as music fans, which is important to your overall marketing strategy. In addition, they become another arrow in your "live show" merchandise quiver. And the bottom line is CDs are less expensive and manufactured quicker than vinyl.
Having said all that and already having a CD in marketplace, our next release will be on vinyl with a companion digital download, as we would like to explore that avenue. In addition, we're gonna give Bandcamp a go.
— https://kingpelican.bandcamp.com/
Last edited: Jan 18, 2017 01:35:52
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VindictiveAlarmClock
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
Posts: 15
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Posted on Jan 18 2017 06:34 PM
Well, I bought The Madeira, Space Cossacks, and Crazy Aces on cd in the last year, and the Me Gustas digitally. That said, I've gotten most of my stuff through bandcamp in the last year. If I'm at a gig I'll buy a cd because I know how that's how most of your gas and drum stick money comes from. I've purchased very little vinyl in the past 10 years.
I like bandcamp because the download is fast and cheap, and it eliminates the shipping and handling which can be 30% of the order. That leaves a little extra $ to take a flyer on another band.
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mom_surfing
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 5309
the outer banks of north carolina
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Posted on Jan 18 2017 08:37 PM
i buy cd's from the surf bands. i've only bought one other cd this year. i tend to buy songs i like, but i always liked 45's back in the olden days.
— www.surfintheeye.com
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Sonichris
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 1902
Wear gloves - I'm in the Rockies
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Posted on Jan 18 2017 08:45 PM
JakeDobner wrote:
ErnestHernandez wrote:
I think they are a necessary part of the path in an overall strategy in regards to distributing/selling your music.
I'm not going to disagree, but add that 80% of our album sales are digital and that is taking sales at gigs into account. Our music either isn't worth the price + shipping of our physical media or people just don't want physical media. Our vinyl sales much better than our CD as well.
While not disagreeing still, I think people need to discover a way to replace the CD. Outside of a digital download there is no way. How we do this is we print 10x10 cardstock versions of our album artwork and put a download code on the back so people can have something physical, part of a presentation, and also the music digitally.
It is hard...
How much does the band net doing this? I'm asking because I don't know, not being a jerk here.....
I wonder if a lot of bands don't go the easy route of downloads because the total number of downloads trumps the actual money made. Or, at least the idea of total number of downloads. "We sold 100,000 downloads!" At a net of $40. 
I also wonder if the industry isn't out-pacing itself, looking for alternatives when the current system is fine. I've read here about how much space CD's take up, then in the next sentence seen where vinyl is the way to go. As an old dude, I can verify that vinyl is WAY WAY more of a commitment to space than cd's. That was one of the benefits of the little bastards.
Personally, I still like to have a hard copy of stuff, vinyl or cd.
— "You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"
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SpaceTimC
Joined: Apr 18, 2015
Posts: 189
Bay Area, CA
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Posted on Jan 19 2017 11:59 AM
LHR wrote:
My question is now about digital versions on some kind of physical media. Are those USB flash drives with the LP (and maybe other content like images, videos, etc.) a useful form factor or a pointless gimmick? We're due to put out out a new record and this idea came up. I have mixed feelings.
My two quatloos: pointless gimmick. A CD is a physical object that can ONLY contain the content burned onto it, so the physical object is inseperable and therefore integral to the content.
A flash drive is simply a container, and a very common - almost disposable - one. Unless the flash drive object has something unique unto itself (shaped like, say, a guitar or a surfboard) it implies that the content has little value, especially since one could probably download that stuff from the website.
— The Reverbivores - we're local favorites!
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ElMonstroPorFavor
Joined: Sep 01, 2006
Posts: 2734
New Orleans, LA
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Posted on Jan 19 2017 12:34 PM
Yeah re: flash drive,
No record stores have a flash drive section, nobody has flash drive binders or shelving, and I don't think people are used to buying them -- they wouldn't know what to expect to pay for them. Plus I'd probably feel weird about throwing it out after I've copied it to my computer, a problem I don't have with paper.
Would not recommend unless you are Man or Astro-man.
— Storm Surge of Reverb: Surf & Instro Radio
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3783
tn
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Posted on Jan 19 2017 03:13 PM
Yep. We will have an announcement on this soon and I think that everybody who has an interest in yet another SP album will be taken care of. Thanks for your comments!
— http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Jan 19 2017 03:27 PM
Sonichris wrote:
How much does the band net doing this? I'm asking because I don't know, not being a jerk here.....
Not much! We are just over $1000 from digital downloads on bandcamp. We sold a lot more in the iTunes days. Bandcamp is great, but not a great place to be found.
We used to move a lot of CDs each show, but people aren't buying music anymore. We sell more t-shirts than we do music. It never used to be that way.
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DonKiyote
Joined: Aug 26, 2014
Posts: 138
Kent
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Posted on Jan 19 2017 03:52 PM
LHR wrote:
My question is now about digital versions on some kind of physical media. Are those USB flash drives with the LP (and maybe other content like images, videos, etc.) a useful form factor or a pointless gimmick? We're due to put out out a new record and this idea came up. I have mixed feelings.
I store lots of music on one drive so I can play it in the car. However, I wouldn't want to keep changing drives for each band/compilation so I'm not sure it would be a worthwhile idea. I still play CDs in the car as well.
— Wherever you go, there you are
http://rogerfowles.co.uk/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUsTNis44w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKauwombaC8
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LHR
Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: 2123
The jungle
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Posted on Jan 31 2017 08:09 PM
Well, RE: the flash drive mode of distribution, I think the idea is that it is easy to stick in the computer and get the album into your music library of choice without ripping discs or downloading stuff or whatever. I think. The little thumb drives are a vehicle but not a keepsake, right?
Anyhow...not a fan of the idea, myself.
— SSIV
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3783
tn
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Posted on May 06 2017 10:49 AM
Just in case you are curious, we are just ending the pre-sale for Siniestro and so far we have sold more than 2x the amount if vinyl+download over cd. We we will see if it evens out over the long run...
— http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com
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raito
Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 551
Madison, WI
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Posted on May 07 2017 07:47 AM
Part of the sppeal of the flash drive was that you could reuse it after copying the content off it. But that window has passed, as the capacity of drives affordable for this us too low to be ueeful to jany folks. I walk around with about 100 gigs in my pocket. I prefer CDs because I want source media with a long shelf life. Sure I rip them all and store them in the basement, but if all my backups fail, I can still reconstitute what I had on a new drive. And I don't trust that any download service will still exist nor have everything they once hsd in the future.
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