Nokie
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
Posts: 549
So Cal
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Posted on Feb 13 2015 06:04 PM
crumble wrote:
Sorry Ivan but I lived through this period and I'm pretty sure the word Heavy Metal had not been coined in 1970!
In any case when it did arrive (1975?) it was a different beast.
Of course not in 1970. It was coined much earlier in reference to the periodic table. As for Heavy Metal music, Barry Gifford is cited as using the term in Rolling Stone in 1968. In my own experience, we were using it to describe anything heavy in the early '70's such as Johnny Winter, Zeppelin, and of course Black Sabbath. As a result, what was called heavy metal in the '80's was what I would call "Hair Metal" - that stuff didn't float my boat. That 1st Sabbath album is immortal - I listen to it several times over a year. Hard t'believe it's 45 years old today. -Marty
— "Hello Girls!"
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Feb 13 2015 06:13 PM
The first I heard of Heavy Metal was 1977 during the punk explosion. I can't remember the name of the band but they suddenly appeared on BBC TV Top of the Pops chart show and I remember DJ John Peel who had the misfortune of introducing them making a sarcastic comment. Most of us scratchy chin NME musos didn't like Black Sabbath much and generally took the piss out of anyone who listened to it (for fun) But this this new Heavy Metal we absolutely loathed. Like I said it's a different beast altogether.
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10321
southern Michigan
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Posted on Feb 13 2015 06:21 PM
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Feb 13 2015 06:32 PM
Yes I did and will return to re-read but I just see it as Journalistic licence to re-invent the past and for folk who are younger to take as gospel. I'm done now thanks 
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19195
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 13 2015 07:06 PM
Wow, 45 years. What an amazing album!
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25309
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Feb 13 2015 07:39 PM
Here is my take, from what I have watched and read over the years.
Black Sabbath say that they aren't a heavy metal band, but Hard Rock with
Blues, and very obvious Jazz elements.
(Though they are heavy as fuck)
That being said, they laid the blue print for what would become metal.
And almost every great metal band would say that they are highly influenced by Black Sabbath.
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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zzero
Joined: Jul 09, 2010
Posts: 1153
Lillian Alabama
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Posted on Feb 13 2015 10:41 PM
During the late 60's Zeppelin was considered a "Heavy" band. So was Jethro Tull, so was the Jeff Beck Group, Steppenwulf, Blue Cheer even the early Kinks and Yardbirds. Cream was another. Metal hadn't been coined yet but the musical roots preceded Sabbath. Sabbath was actually a blues band called Earth before they went big. Blues heavily influenced heavy music.
What I'm trying to say is during the late 60's I was finishing up high school and gigging in a HEAVY band. We were playing 2 to 3 times a month for 3 years. We were hired to play because we were a heavy band.
It paid for college for 2 of us. I grew up back then and didn't get a history lesson from some writer. I lived it.
I agree with Crumble except I call it revisionist history. I was there!
Black Sabbath was a great album, one of my favorites--it is still on my shelf and gets regular listenings. But the first heavy metal album??
I don't see it.
— Enjoying the surf,sun and sand!!
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10321
southern Michigan
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Posted on Feb 13 2015 11:20 PM
bigtikidude wrote:
Here is my take, from what I have watched and read over the years.
Black Sabbath say that they aren't a heavy metal band, but Hard Rock with
Blues, and very obvious Jazz elements.
(Though they are heavy as fuck)
That being said, they laid the blue print for what would become metal.
And almost every great metal band would say that they are highly influenced by Black Sabbath.
 Well-said, Jeff.
So, how about those Mermen? The nerve of some people, claiming they play surf music!! 
— Ivan
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simoncoil
Joined: Sep 28, 2012
Posts: 897
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 03:45 AM
You guys like Black Sabbath? I mean, come on, they were probably the worst surf band ever!
— Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!
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arny
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 608
Netherlands, Europe
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 04:38 AM
simoncoil wrote:
You guys like Black Sabbath? I mean, come on, they were probably the worst surf band ever!
Simon, that's not fair. They didn't have a Surfy Bear of a Flint back then!
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 06:41 AM
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
Shakespeare, W., Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
Last edited: Feb 14, 2015 06:41:50
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simoncoil
Joined: Sep 28, 2012
Posts: 897
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 07:24 AM
Shakespeare, eh? And I always thought that was from some lyrics by Geezer Butler. 
Jokes aside, I really like Sabbath, and even if you don't put them in the Metal corner, it's very hard to argue that the whole horro/occult aethetic they started with their first album was the whole starting point for the genre.
BTW, I guess one of the reasons, why Black Sabbath appeal to me, is that there are moments when they sound a lot like Cream.
— Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!
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zzero
Joined: Jul 09, 2010
Posts: 1153
Lillian Alabama
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 08:33 AM
A lot can be said for Alice Cooper starting the horror thing too.
'Cept Sabbath was much much better. Johnny Winter as heavy metal?? First album was blues.......hmmmmmm 
— Enjoying the surf,sun and sand!!
Last edited: Feb 14, 2015 08:36:06
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UKAY54
Joined: Nov 02, 2013
Posts: 284
Köln
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 08:39 AM
zzero wrote:
A lot can be said for Alice Cooper starting the horror thing too.
This "horror thing" was quite popular during the sixties especially in the UK. Starting with Screaming Lord Sutch to hit singles like "Fire" by The Crazy World of Arthur Brown or "Race with the Devil" by The Gun from 1968.
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19195
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 09:17 AM
Lol at the new thread title.
Of course there were heavy bands before Sabbath. But Sabbath was clearly the first heavy metal band with the first heavy metal album. They brought crushing detuned doom combined with apocalyptic lyrics that defined the genre and spawned hundreds if not thousands of metal bands.
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19195
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 09:19 AM
Do metal heads argue about the first surf album on metal forums? 
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Teiscofan
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Posts: 511
Ontario
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 09:41 AM
ROTFLMAO- Now thats really funny Brian!!! I cant say that any metal heads Ive known have ever really listened to surf music much less discussed it.
— I am not obsolete, I am RETRO.... 
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Nokie
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
Posts: 549
So Cal
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 10:07 AM
zzero wrote:
A lot can be said for Alice Cooper starting the horror thing too.
'Cept Sabbath was much much better. Johnny Winter as heavy metal?? First album was blues.......hmmmmmm
Yes, Johnny Winter's first album (circa mid '60's) was blues as were many of his later albums. In the early '70's, however, he made rock albums such as "Still Alive and Well" and "Johnny Winter And". They were heavy and sat comfortably in our collections along side our ZZTop, Zeppelin, and Sabbath LPs. We really did refer to them as Heavy Metal in those early to mid '70's. The Ol' Hit Parader and Cream magazines as well made the reference. The term was highjacked in the '80's to refer to bands that I wouldn't put in the same class.-Marty
— "Hello Girls!"
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Nokie
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
Posts: 549
So Cal
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 10:14 AM
Brian wrote:
Do metal heads argue about the first surf album on metal forums?
No, they're much more constructive. A typical conversation on a heavy metal list goes like this: "Pantara rules", replied to with, "Pantara sucks!" which invites the response, "You suck!" and it goes on like that.
— "Hello Girls!"
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Teiscofan
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Posts: 511
Ontario
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Posted on Feb 14 2015 10:18 AM
Johnny Winters early and later blues albums are absolutely amazing! ( I had the priveledge of seeing him perform live 3 times... ) The 70s rock albums he did are also nestled in the rack with Zeppelin, Sabbath etc.... Johnny Winter And is a true classic only surpassed by Johnny Winter Live and...
Wow, I rambled...In short I concur with Nokie.
— I am not obsolete, I am RETRO....
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