synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 14 2024 02:44 PM
Surfadelphia wrote:
The Indian Laurel fretboard on my Squier 70's Jag was very dry out of the box and had that dusky grey pallor to it. It just needed a good going over with fret board oil/conditioner to look much better...just don't expect it to look just like a nice piece of rosewood. To me, the Indian Laurel sits somewhere between rosewood and ebony. Harder and smoother than Rosewood but not as hard and smooth as Ebony. IMO, it looks and feels much better than most of the Pauo Ferro I've seen on some imports.
You should have seen it before I treated it.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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Surfadelphia
Joined: Sep 04, 2017
Posts: 431
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Posted on Oct 15 2024 07:41 AM
Guess we just have to get used to these non-rosewood boards. Even Rickenbacker is no longer using "real" rosewood on their guitars. Rick has been using what they call "Caribbean Rosewood" but it's really "Chechen". While "Chechen" doesn't look so much like rosewood to my eyes, it actually is quite beautiful in its own way with lots of interesting grain/figuring and a rich dark orange/brown coloration that works well with Rickenbacker's gloss finished fretboards. To your point about your Indian Laurel board still not looking great after conditioning, I guess like any other wood, some cuts will look better than others and I doubt Squier is spending the time or money to pick out the nicest looking Laurel. While I may have gotten a little better looking Laurel Board on my Squier, my Jag definitely needed more work (fret ends were sharp, nut was high and needed recutting and shaping) but it's now one of the best playing and feeling necks of any of my guitars which all cost way more than the Squier Jag.
Last edited: Oct 15, 2024 07:58:36
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Oct 15 2024 09:10 AM
When you run a search online for Indian Laurel wood there are numerous resources available for technical data and opinions for its tonal quality.
From what I read, it's basically the best substitute for Rosewood and really comes down to availability between the two.
Taylor has made hollow bodies back and sides, specifically for its tonal quality.
The hardness and wearability is equal to Rosewood.
So, I am not going to get too picky about how my fretboard looks as compared to the dark Rosewood.
The Monty's Instrument Food wax stain seems to be popular if you need to darken up the Laurel or Pau Ferro.
But to me that's like putting on make-up.
I do plan to treat my IL board with the Monty's regular Instrument Food waxjust to give proper dry bare wood what it needs.
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 15 2024 12:16 PM
Surfadelphia wrote:
Guess we just have to get used to these non-rosewood boards. Even Rickenbacker is no longer using "real" rosewood on their guitars. Rick has been using what they call "Caribbean Rosewood" but it's really "Chechen". While "Chechen" doesn't look so much like rosewood to my eyes, it actually is quite beautiful in its own way with lots of interesting grain/figuring and a rich dark orange/brown coloration that works well with Rickenbacker's gloss finished fretboards. To your point about your Indian Laurel board still not looking great after conditioning, I guess like any other wood, some cuts will look better than others and I doubt Squier is spending the time or money to pick out the nicest looking Laurel. While I may have gotten a little better looking Laurel Board on my Squier, my Jag definitely needed more work (fret ends were sharp, nut was high and needed recutting and shaping) but it's now one of the best playing and feeling necks of any of my guitars which all cost way more than the Squier Jag.
That Chechen is beautiful wood. Rickenbacker guitars always had those gorgeous fingerboards and I’d hate to see that lost to time.
It doesn’t particularly trouble me that the fingerboard on my Squire is so plain looking, but when I see the beautiful rosewood in Iceratz’ Squier, I can’t help but wish that mine was as beautiful. On the flip side, the only problem my CV Jaguar has ever had was a slightly wonky tailpiece, which I replaced almost immediately, and beyond that, I’ve never had to do so much as a single adjustment, and the frets are pretty decent, albeit not as shiny and pretty as those on my Warmoth Jaguar build.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Oct 15 2024 01:37 PM
synchro wrote:
It doesn’t particularly trouble me that the fingerboard on my Squire is so plain looking, but when I see the beautiful rosewood in Iceratz’ Squier, I can’t help but wish that mine was as beautiful. <
Hey Synchro,
I have 2 Squier jags as shown earlier in this thread.
One is the same exact one as you have , its a 70s CV, with Indian Laurel and the pearl blocks and binding.
The other Squier Jag in earlier posts was a Vintage Modified and does have the rosewood, with dot and no binding.
Here is a comparison between 2 Squiers and a Fender Vintera with Pau Ferro. In all 3 pictures I had used lemon oil to give the best appearance possible. But non have had the wax treatment I plan to do next. (not the Monty stain, just the yellow wax)
Last edited: Oct 15, 2024 15:03:27
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Oct 15 2024 10:20 PM
Back to the wiring upgrades to the new 'Blue Nebula' Jaguar.
Copper shielding is done, next I run several ground wires from the upper horn, the bridge thimble and the tremelo back to a central terminal in the lower control cavity.
Here is something you probably haven't seen yet in guitar wiring: I made a master ground terminal bar out of a 12ga Copper strand with terminal ends, and screwed it into the sidewall. Now I can attach and solder each ground wire separately to the terminal bar.
It's just like an electrical panel concept.
These Jaguars have more grounding layouts than any other guitar I have seen, just check out the diagram.
In the past a made one giant spade terminal end, but I couldn't 'edit' the build if needed.
So this is my latest approach, which enables easy assembly and disassemble if needed.
All chambers and thimble checks out with the multimeter for continuity.
One thing I know for sure, when I go to these extents for grounding I get a super quiet response from the pickups, so it's definitely worth it.
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 15 2024 11:22 PM
I love the idea of a ground bus. There is no such thing as having too good of a ground. Likewise, for shielding. You do some very high quality work.
I love the idea of naming a Jaguar Blue Nebula. I have a Stanley Blue Nebula pedal on one of my pedalboards, and it would be a good match for a Blue Nebula Jaguar. It’s not really aimed at Surf players, but emulates the various delays that Hank Marvin used with the Shadows, and has a tremendous emulation of Abbey Road’s plate reverbs.
The Indian Laurel on your CV is about as good as I’ve ever seen Indian Laurel look. The Pau Ferro is pretty good, too. If you get a nice cut, Pau Ferro can look great. Most of my guitars have Ebony, but you can’t get ebony on everything. I’ve heard that the restrictions on Rosewood have been clarified and that s small uaes, such as fingerboards, are no longer prohibited. The larger uses, such as furniture, however, remain banned. Shoot, just when I was getting ready to redecorate and have a new banquet table made.
I have a treatment I’ve used for years, but it doesn’t seem to do much to help with Indian Laurel. I may go for a bottle of Lemon Oil. I recently took note that Ernie Ball sells a towelette designed for treating fingerboards, and I’m planning to give those a try too, just for the convenience.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Oct 17 2024 08:26 PM
I got the Monty wax (not the stain) and treated my Indian laurel fretboard.
Here is a picture of before and after.
It did get slightly darker, but more importantly it got slippery smooth and the wood grain not feeling as coarse.
I rubbed on the wax as instructed, but I then used a heat gun to melt it deep into the grain, very light passes of heat until I saw it wetout.
2 coats and here we are, it's great!
Last edited: Oct 17, 2024 20:27:11
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 17 2024 08:44 PM
IceratzSurf wrote:
I got the Monty wax (not the stain) and treated my Indian laurel fretboard.
Here is a picture of before and after.
It did get slightly darker, but more importantly it got slippery smooth and the wood grain not feeling as coarse.
I rubbed on the wax as instructed, but I then used a heat gun to melt it deep into the grain, very light passes of heat until I saw it wetout.
2 coats and here we are, it's great!
it looks like it lightened the wood slightly. You just live a charmed life to have Indian Laurel that looks so good.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Oct 17 2024 09:55 PM
*synchro
it looks like it lightened the wood slightly. You just live a charmed life to have Indian Laurel that looks so good. :)<
The 'before' picture was the bottom one, sorry for the confusion
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 17 2024 10:08 PM
IceratzSurf wrote:
*synchro
it looks like it lightened the wood slightly. You just live a charmed life to have Indian Laurel that looks so good. :)<
The 'before' picture was the bottom one, sorry for the confusion
In that case, it looks like it darkened the wood, slightly. in any event, that is some fine looking Indian Laurel.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Oct 19 2024 08:08 AM
I got the new wiring completed on the Squier Jaguar upgrades.
Everything tests out perfectly so far.
But it's not without a revelation that the Fender diagram is most definitely WRONG!
Specifically 2 things:
1) The 3 way switch shows the bridge hot yellow going to the wrong lug. It needs to go to the same 'line' as the ground wire.
2) The Cap to the master tone pot is shown incomplete. Needs to run from the tone pot ground chasis to the left side wiper lug. The diagram just shows the chasis connection.
Here is the completed arrangements.
This is the best Jaguar wiring I done!
I used orange drop capacitors for the 0.01uf in both the main tone pot and the mini rhythm.
All pots CTS.
I kept the factory 0.003uf cap in the Strangle because I couldn't find a replacement. It definitely works.
Need to wait for the pickguard and 2 roller knobs for the Rhythm, because CTS mini pots are smaller shafts than the imports.
The master ground "bus' bar really worked great. It's a solid 12ga Copper strand with terminal ends, screwed into the sidewall cavity.
The jack ground wire is a 16ga copper going directly to the bus.
From there, each other 22ga from other chambers are connected, and finally the 2 pickup grounds are attached separately so I can 'edit' the build easily if needed.
Now I can't wait for the rest of my stuff to arrive to complete shortly!
Last edited: Oct 19, 2024 08:17:36
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 19 2024 08:25 AM
That is some great workmanship and very clean wiring. Wiring an Offset is no trivial task; there’s little room to spare and a lot of wiring which has to be properly dressed. I had a friend who is an aviation certified solderer help when I did my Jaguar build, and even with two experience people working on it, the job was still challenging enough to get our attention. We did work that was correct, but not nearly as pretty as what you’ve done on this Jaguar. How did you get the borders of the shielding tape so perfect?
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Oct 19 2024 09:04 AM
synchro wrote:
That is some great workmanship / How did you get the borders of the shielding tape so perfect?
Thanks for your compliments!
And having done one yourself you understand the challenges with Jaguars.
IMO, Jazzmaster is easier, only slightly.
Leo definitely went over the top with the Jaguar circuit!
It's easy to trim the copper tape using and Xacto knife, and just scoring the tape to shape, then it easily peels away with your fingernail. I used a clear curved ' French curve' drafting tool to run the knife blade along.
These are the extra steps I take when I am waiting patiently for parts.
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 19 2024 10:01 AM
IceratzSurf wrote:
synchro wrote:
That is some great workmanship / How did you get the borders of the shielding tape so perfect?
Thanks for your compliments!
And having done one yourself you understand the challenges with Jaguars.
IMO, Jazzmaster is easier, only slightly.
While I’m a skilled worker in many areas, I don’t think that I could ever make wiring look that good. I’m a strange dichotomy, in that I can do aviation sheet metal work which looks nearly perfect, but my woodworking and/or wiring, while functional, never comes out beautiful.
IceratzSurf wrote:
Leo definitely went over the top with the Jaguar circuit!
It’s really a masterpiece of design ingenuity. I’m a fan of presets, and Leo Fender used a preset they referred to as “bass tone” on the original Broadcaster/No-Caster/Telecaster circuit, which was basically a big cap that shunted upper frequencies. I’ve replicated that, and it’s so dark as to be all but unusable, but it was an interesting concept.
Being a Gretsch player, I am familiar with the Master Tone Control, AKA “Mud Switch”, which is a no-load tone control which uses fixed cap values to offer three options: light cut (of highs), deeper cut, or bypassed in an absolutely no-load configuration. The cap values of the Mud Switch were chosen according to the tastes of the ‘50s, and are pretty dark sounding for today's music, but recent production Gretsch have cap values more suited to our day, making the Mud Switch much less muddy, and much more useful.
Freddy Tavares was a proponent of presets, and I believe that it was his influence which brought presets back in the Jazzmaster, in the form of the Rhythm circuit, which was a configurable preset. While it’s of no use to many players, it has zero effect on the main circuit, so it’s available, but non intrusive.
On the Jaguar, Fender pulled out all the stops, and gave us a circuit that is exceptionally versatile. The volume and tone pots on the rhythm circuit collaborate to give that dark Jazz guitar sound, because someone had the foresight to use a 50k tone pot allowing one of the brightest sounding guitars on the planet to sound like an ES-175. It’s ironic, that one of the best Jazz sounds I can obtain comes from a Squier solid body. It doesn’t have the richness of something like my Guild, but for the more common sound used in ‘50s Jazz guitar, it nails it.
On the flip side, the Strangle Switch, cuts fundamentals and allows the sound to be very bright with low risk of muddiness. I like to use the strangle switch with the neck pickup alone for a mellow sound which retains a light, airy feeling and retains a crisp feel on the lower notes. With both pickups, or just the bridge pickup selected, it can really sizzle, for the brightest of Surf sounds. How could one little guitar be any more versatile?
IceratzSurf wrote:
It's easy to trim the copper tape using and Xacto knife, and just scoring the tape to shape, then it easily peels away with your fingernail. I used a clear curved 'French curve' drafting tool to run the knife blade along.
These are the extra steps I take when I am waiting patiently for parts.
So the tools of old school drafting still have their place.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
Last edited: Oct 19, 2024 10:03:25
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 19 2024 11:33 PM
As a continuation of our discussion of Indian Laurel fretboards, here’s my project, for the day. I used Ernie Ball Wonder Wipes, which contain orange oil. The photos were take shortly after the second application, and I’m letting it soak in overnight, before cleaning off the residue. There’s a definitely improvement, but the fingerboard is probably never going to be much lighter colored, short of some sort of dye treatment.
I can see, from the photo, that the wood was pretty dry, in spite of having been wiped down with a lemon oil based treatment, not that long ago. I tried the towelette approach, because it simplifies matters. Overall, I think that the product is good. I might try it on my VI, next.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 20 2024 11:12 AM
And here’s how it looks after soaking in for about 12 hours. I think this is about as good as it will become. It’s not as beautiful as some nice piece of rosewood, but at least it’s not the dusty gray that it had become.
The Ernie Ball Wonder Wipes seem to do a pretty good job, and is more convenient when treating a fingerboard without removing the strings.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Oct 21 2024 07:53 AM
synchro wrote:
And here’s how it looks after soaking in for about 12 hours. I think this is about as good as it will become. It’s not as beautiful as some nice piece of rosewood, but at least it’s not the dusty gray that it had become.
The Ernie Ball Wonder Wipes seem to do a pretty good job, and is more convenient when treating a fingerboard without removing the strings.
IMO that looks great!
As far as I can tell, it looks just like mine.
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Oct 21 2024 08:36 AM
IceratzSurf wrote:
synchro wrote:
And here’s how it looks after soaking in for about 12 hours. I think this is about as good as it will become. It’s not as beautiful as some nice piece of rosewood, but at least it’s not the dusty gray that it had become.
The Ernie Ball Wonder Wipes seem to do a pretty good job, and is more convenient when treating a fingerboard without removing the strings.
IMO that looks great!
As far as I can tell, it looks just like mine.
It’s come out pretty well. I took this as an opportunity to treat the fretboards of every guitar I own with either a Rosewood or Indian Laurel fingerboard. I have to say that these Ernie Ball Wonder Wipes work quite well. My Gretsch Tennessean’s fretboard looks better than it has in years. I won’t grant these wipes any magical powers, but they are a very effective tool in applying fretboard conditioner.
Living in a desert environment, my guitars require some extra steps. All of my guitars are hung and there is a high capacity humidifier just below. This has been quite effective. I have one carved top guitar which has done quite well, and my marinate and solid body guitars are likewise healthy, but fretboards are always a concern. Anytime I change the strings, I liberally apply liquid fretboard treatment, but the challenge is keeping the fretboard happy in between string changes, and especially so when I use Thomastik strings which are all but immortal.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Oct 22 2024 08:45 AM
The "Blue Nebula" Jaguar makes it off the workbench!
It really came out great!
Its probably the quietest hum of any single coil guitar I owned, except for the Noiseless pickup rigs.
The shielding is the reason, with excellent grounds everywhere. I placed copper shielding to the backside of the pickguard as well, and this directly contacts the overlapping shielding from the cavities.
I would need to hold the guitar 6" right in front of the amp to even begin to hear any 60 cycle hum!
For appearance, I specifically was looking for a parchment pickguard, with matching pickup covers, this was my vision all along.
I had considered pearl as another, but the blue sparkle is so damn good I wanted it showcased for 'bling bling' on its own.
I do have one issue though, and I will be replacing the pickups to Pure Vintage 65' ASAP.
Initially for this rebuild, I had used some spare parts and quickly discovered (yet again) the nuances of using a Fender Pro Jaguar neck and various bridge PUs ( AV62', stock Squire - both bridge and neck!)
The issue with the Pro Jag neck is that its wound & voiced totally different than anything traditional, with a powerful output of 10.4Ohm., its dark to begin with. So by itself is quite bassy, but when engaged to the traditional wired rhythm circuit- its unusable. Its so muddy that, I even took off the 0.03 cap from rhythm tone pot to see how that would affect it. The tone came back, but with zero adjustment. Strangely as well, the rhythm volume would work, but never to shut completely off.
I am no-where as tech-savy to point out the specifics of where the 'cut-off' Hrz ranges are designed, but to my ears it was obvious.
It figures that Fender never intended for this Pro neck PU to work with traditional Jag wiring, because the Pro Jaguar (now discontinued from 2017) never had the rhythm circuit! My bad for trying it...again.
The other combos of bridge PUs I experimented with were also not paired well with the Pro output. When I used the 62' bridge, the master combined circuit went out of phase into useless nasal wimpy tone.
Interestingly, the use of the Squire stock NECK PU, (power was 11.2Ohm & more 'paired' if you will) by placing that in the BRIDGE position, I got the best tone I could of all worlds...but FAR from anything vintage, very modern and powerful.
If I rolled back the master tone and volume a smudge, I can get then get_ some vintage Surf twang_ but that's not what I want this setup to be, ultimately I want a 'classic Surf machine'.
I had already owned a converted 62' Jaguar re-build Vintera, so I knew what that was about for classic sound, and at the time of reworking it, not knowing anything else about Jag PUs, went that route with 62'.
But now I want to try out the Fender PV65'.
I have already spent hours researching other possibilities with the custom options.
I read a revealing discussion from a Custom Shop Masterbuilder who stated to a buyer , 'if you want the classic 60's Surf tone build, then get the PV65', why do we want to custom wind something else?"
In the end, this guitar is just an inexpensive Squire, and I feel there is a cutoff cost basis for PU selections for investments.
The Pure Vintage 65' made the most sense and there were numerous reviews specifically doing this for a stock Squire VM or CV upgrade, and even to the Japanese builds. So I don't think I can go wrong.
What's also important here is the fact the PV65' are balanced outputs, and voiced correctly, so that they will work with a traditional Jaguar wiring scheme across the whole range of switching selections.
I'll update my findings in the next "workbench' post.
Here is some more bling!
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