IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 14 2010 06:47 PM
CaptainSpringfield
Fuzzmeister
"Chicken Scratch" is just "Heads Up" by Freddie King re-named isn't it?
Yup. And it wasn't the only Freddy King song they renamed, either.
Butterscotch = Forty Miles Bad Surf
San-Ho-Zay = Shootin' the Pier
You really gotta wonder who was behind those decisions....
(Funny enough, they did release a song under the name "Heads Up" - but it was the Ventures' "Scratch"!!)
— Ivan
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spskins
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tn
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Posted on Jan 14 2010 08:45 PM
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 14 2010 09:46 PM
spskins
I think Summers wrote at least the High Tide part of Tranquilizer, if not the entire thing.
I've not seen official songwriting credits anywhere, but according to Domenic Priore's liner notes in "Hang Five!", Masoner wrote "Tranquilizer" (and "Goofy Foot").
(I'm not sure what you mean by the "High Tide part of Tranquilizer" - they're two names for the same song.)
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shivers13
Joined: Jul 29, 2009
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Boss Angeles, CA
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Posted on Jan 14 2010 10:05 PM
IvanP
You really gotta wonder who was behind those decisions....
Taking older instros are renaming them to give them a more surfy name was common practice with many surf bands from the early sixties, and playing covers was compulsory as well. The Lively Ones were particularly found of turning Freddie King songs into surf tunes. Nothing new... The Ventures and The Challengers built whole careers around doing covers. Incidently, The Chantays "Banzai" is the same tune as The Ventures "Driving Guitars" and The Trashmen took "Church Key" and turned it into "Bad News". Not an uncommon practice for those days.
But it's interesting to note that The Lively Ones song credits for their renamed songs are credited to the original author... There's a great website for songwriting credits you should check out ... www.allmusic.com Type in your favorite surf band from the earlier sixties and see what they wrote or didn't.
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Last edited: Jan 15, 2010 00:44:37
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 14 2010 10:17 PM
I know all this, Norm, and I know this practice was particularly widespread with Del-Fi releases. I simply meant that I really doubt it was the bands that made the decisions to rename the tunes - or how the tunes would be renamed.
As far as the covers bit, the Ventures actually had many, MANY great originals through the years, starting from the very beginning, but especially blossoming in the '63-'67 period. So, yeah, they recorded a lot more covers than originals, but I'd say the ratio was maybe 3:1 or 4:1. Whereas with the Lively Ones, they recorded some 50 songs, and of those 50 songs, maybe five are original (in a sense of them writing them or Summers writing them for them). That's a pretty bad ratio (10:1), all's I'm saying....
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shivers13
Joined: Jul 29, 2009
Posts: 2605
Boss Angeles, CA
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Posted on Jan 14 2010 10:29 PM
Understood, but you also have to put in perspective that The Ventures recorded a hell of a lot more albums than The Lively Ones did. When the surf craze was over so were The Lively Ones and the like. Whereas, the Ventures continued on.
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3796
tn
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Posted on Jan 14 2010 11:13 PM
IvanP
spskins
I think Summers wrote at least the High Tide part of Tranquilizer, if not the entire thing.
I've not seen official songwriting credits anywhere, but according to Domenic Priore's liner notes in "Hang Five!", Masoner wrote "Tranquilizer" (and "Goofy Foot").
(I'm not sure what you mean by the "High Tide part of Tranquilizer" - they're two names for the same song.)
On the Surfaris Stomp comp there is a recording of "High Tide" credited to Bob Summers. The melody is the same, just played higher and not double picked. "Tranquilizer" has other parts added to the basic "High Tide", like the second part where the sax comes in and that cool middle part.
So they are not two names for the same song, they are crediting the very basic original "High Tide" as inspiration for the more evolved and complex "Tranquilizer".
Let's not forget Ed Chiaverini!
BTW, it's great to be talking about surf music on this forum again. 
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
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Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Jan 15 2010 08:01 AM
spskins
BTW, it's great to be talking about surf music on this forum again.
Amen. Please continue.
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Jagshark
Joined: Nov 05, 2008
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Colorado, home of The Astronauts
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Posted on Jan 15 2010 09:56 AM
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Jan 15 2010 07:54 PM
IvanP
Does anybody know the credits for the songs "Walkin' The Board" and "Chicken Scratch"? I assume they're covers, the latter maybe even by Freddie King, but I could be wrong...
I noticed nobody had taken Ivan up on the credits for Walkin' the Board, and since I owe him for some serious help in this line in the past I thought I'd look into it.
Well, the AllMusic Site is the place to start, if you don't have a record or CD with credits handy. It says the composer is G. or J. Urango. I'm not sure when the uncertainty over the initials started. This is not the boxer Juan Urango, I suspect, or his brother Gurango M. Urango either.
But who is it? After poking AllMusic and the Internet a bit I have come to the conclusion that G./J. Urango is maybe a deliverately mangled rendition of "Javier Uranga." What did Javier Uranga write? He was basically an early recording engineer, but he wrote "(Alla en) El Rancho Grande." Not something I knew by name, but I sort of recognized it for some reason when I listened to some of the sound swatches for it at AllMusic. It's a bit of early 20th Century American doggerel wrapped up as a "cowboy song." "Give me a biiig herrrd to battle, for I just looove herrrding cattle, ..." and more of the same. You can probably pick up the lyrics and a nice bit of spyware at the lyrics site of your choice.
So far, in spite of the ghostly familiarity of the melody, this puzzled the hell out of me, especially since I started with the Bing Crosby version. But try the Tommy Dorsey one. I think basically the Lively Ones are just laughing and saying that the song is a jam on what is more or less the only musical phrase in El Rancho Grande. The phrasing is right, anyway, but I think they have improved the thing out of mind in every way and that Javier would concede that it's really theirs as it stands.
I assume it's theirs, because I can't turn up any versions of _Walkin' the Board _except by the Lively Ones, always credited to J. or G. Urango.
But I guess someone who knows can ask one of them!
Last edited: Jan 20, 2010 15:43:24
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 01:04 PM
spskins
BTW, it's great to be talking about surf music on this forum again.
It's ironic that the discussion almost completely ceased as soon as Ted wrote this! 
I've been away and busy the last few days, so I wasn't able to reply to this before now, but here goes:
spskins
IvanP
spskins
I think Summers wrote at least the High Tide part of Tranquilizer, if not the entire thing.
I've not seen official songwriting credits anywhere, but according to Domenic Priore's liner notes in "Hang Five!", Masoner wrote "Tranquilizer" (and "Goofy Foot").
(I'm not sure what you mean by the "High Tide part of Tranquilizer" - they're two names for the same song.)
On the Surfaris Stomp comp there is a recording of "High Tide" credited to Bob Summers. The melody is the same, just played higher and not double picked. "Tranquilizer" has other parts added to the basic "High Tide", like the second part where the sax comes in and that cool middle part.
So they are not two names for the same song, they are crediting the very basic original "High Tide" as inspiration for the more evolved and complex "Tranquilizer".
That's very interesting, Ted. I completely forgot about this Surfaris recording, I hadn't listened to that CD in years. Anyway, I checked it out, and sure enough, you're right. According to the liner notes, "High Tide" was recorded at the same session that resulted in "Wipe Out"/"Surfer Joe", which took place in December 1962 - prior to the release of the Lively Ones' version, which came out in June 1963.
Incidentally, Ted, the single version by the Lively Ones listed the title as "High Tide", not "Tranquilizer" - "Tranquilizer" was the title given to the album track - but it's the same recording. So, they are indeed two names for the same song. The question is, where did the Surfaris get it? If it was indeed Bob Summers that wrote it, how did they get it from him, since they never recorded anything before this session and is unlikely they would have had any connection to him. Is it possible that "Surfaris Stomp" CD gave the incorrect credits, that the writer wasn't actually Summers but really Masoner?
Here's what the "Surfaris Stomp" CD liner notes say:
"Before the recording began, the band played a few songs they already knew which were recorded by engineer Paul Buff without their knowledge. (Two of those songs, 'Hot Doggin'' and 'High Tide', are included in this compilation, released for the first time ever.)"
So, how would they have known "High Tide" before the Lively Ones released it? Did they hear the Lively Ones playing it live before they recorded? The Lively Ones were already an established band by the end of '62, and both bands were from Orange County, so that seems plausible. It's quite possible that the Surfaris played the song in this simplified way cause that's all they could remember of it when working it out. On the same CD, "Surfaris Stomp", there is a previously unreleased recording of them playing the Atlantics' "Bombora" (apparently titled on the tape "The Crusher" - oops!), but they butchered it, forgetting a couple of parts and just not getting it right. Maybe that's what happened with "High Tide" - they remembered it incompletely and just didn't play it right. But it WAS in fact the Lively Ones' song (possibly even written by Masoner) and it's possible it already had the full arrangement, even by that time, when the Lively Ones played it live.
An interesting bit of mystery.... It would be great if somebody could ask the original culprits!
— Ivan
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spskins
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tn
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 01:15 PM
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John
Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 614
Monterey County, California
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 02:17 PM
The Lively Ones were already an established band by the end of '62, and both bands were from Orange County...
The Lively Ones were from OC, but The Surfaris were from Glendora, which is in LA County.
It would be great if somebody could ask the original culprits!
I did ask Bob Berryhill about this once. He said he didn't remember exactly but he thought that the band had seen The Lively Ones perform "High Tide" on at least one occasion. I doubt there was a meaningful connection between Bob Summers and The Surfaris at that early stage (late '62, early '63).
john blair
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 02:28 PM
John
The Lively Ones were already an established band by the end of '62, and both bands were from Orange County...
The Lively Ones were from OC, but The Surfaris were from Glendora, which is in LA County.
Oops...
It would be great if somebody could ask the original culprits!
I did ask Bob Berryhill about this once. He said he didn't remember exactly but he thought that the band had seen The Lively Ones perform "High Tide" on at least one occasion. I doubt there was a meaningful connection between Bob Summers and The Surfaris at that early stage (late '62, early '63).
Cool, my educated guesses were correct! Thanks very much, John!
Now, do you know who actually wrote the song "High Tide", Masoner or Summers?
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Klas
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 03:30 PM
IvanP
Now, do you know who actually wrote the song "High Tide", Masoner or Summers?
Collectors' Choice 2004 CD reissue of the Surf City album has the five band members credited for writing "Tranquilizer". This could very well mean that it was basically Masoner who wrote it but should rule out Summers.
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John
Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 614
Monterey County, California
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 06:07 PM
Now, do you know who actually wrote the song "High Tide", Masoner or Summers?
No, I don't. The Del-Fi single credited The Lively Ones and noted the publisher as Bob Keene's Maravilla Publishing. Bob Summers' publishing was Exbrook. But that still doesn't help much since Keene usually "took" the publishing on anything he released.
Bob Summers DID record/produce the early Lively Ones' tracks at his studio in El Monte, Calif., that much we do know. He also released a number of singles under his own name and as Sleepy Summers and Sidewalk Sounds, on at least eight different labels!!
Here's the real issue: Jim Masoner remembers that The Lively ones learned the tune from ANOTHER recording that had been released by someone else. At this point in time, I'm not aware of what that might have been. Could have been a single (or even a demo, I suppose) by Bob Summers. I've not heard everything that Summers released, though, and I'm not aware of any published interviews with him.
The Surfaris could have learned the tune by hearing THAT single OR hearing The Lively Ones play it live.
Masoner THINKS that other recording was called "Tranquilizer." If so, that was the original title of the tune and Keene was the one who changed it to "High Tide."
john blair
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CaptainSpringfield
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 4387
Under the Sun
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 06:36 PM
John
Masoner THINKS that other recording was called "Tranquilizer." If so, that was the original title of the tune and Keene was the one who changed it to "High Tide."
That would definitely fit with other cover songs the Lively Ones did getting retitled in order to have more surfy names.
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 06:55 PM
When did the Esquires' cover of High Tide come out?
I think of them as later, but they were recording in 63.
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John
Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 614
Monterey County, California
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 07:51 PM
Tuck
When did the Esquires' cover of High Tide come out?
I think of them as later, but they were recording in 63.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://popup.lala.com/popup/648799842809945186
The Esquires' cover of "High Tide" was an unreleased track (at least until that Dionysus CD came out) recorded in 1964 at radio station KASK in Ontario, Calif., which explains why the recording is so lo-fi. I'm sure they learned it from The Lively Ones.
john blair
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3796
tn
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Posted on Jan 19 2010 08:12 PM
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May Birthdays 
