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I think those are darn good reasons for a deadline, Brian. In my experience
with these projects, deadlines are motivating. Deadlines also encourage
listenership. With a full collection put together at once, we have an event!
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Neal
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
DP wrote:
>(PS: the deadline thing was for a CD-type release...the MP3
>site doesn't really need a deadline...does it? it could
>just be ongoing as people join or whatever...let us know
>what you think)
>
>
I think I want to have a deadline, because:
1) I would like to have a set of songs one could burn onto a CD,
capturing a moment in time.
2) I don't want to keep babysitting this project indefinitely. :-)
If it has a decent response and turns out well then I'm open to doing it
again more often.
Thanks for your enthusiasm, DP!
BN
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Yeah, that's true, DP. Your reminding me of the Robin Trower number that starts
with a cheapo drum machine and then the real drummer joins in and it's purdy
effective. But for the most part, people think they're beefin' up their tune
with a drum machine when in fact the tune would sound a whole lot better
without. Again, this is my humble opinion.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: DP
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
Then again...one could "be creative" using a drum
machine...
I like running my drum machine through different
effects...and I also like using my Wurlitzer drummer...many
drum machines can be played in "real-time" (manual)
mode...just like "real" drums...
and...there's always a whole variety of percusion
instruments: things like claves and gueros and tamborines
and bongos and all that.
Maybe I could get Dusty to play "virtual-distance" bongos
on my little cut?
-dp
--- mctippens <> wrote:
>
>
> Hi again, Ferenc,
>
> Yes, I do understand that this is very informal and
> that's the way I
> like it. But I submit that there are options to the
> soul-less drum
> machine. It's much better, IMHO, to submit a recording
> sans drums
> than a recording with a drum machine. Lay down some
> tambourine or
> shaker for percussion. Dig what Jan and Arnie did on
> "Jennie Lee",
> they tapped out the percussion on a wooden chair and came
> up with hit
> with much more soul than something with a drum machine.
>
> Here's one for our new technology: I've been in the
> situation where I
> couldn't lay down drums without going to a studio. For an
> informal
> mp3 comp it wasn't worth it. I contacted a drummer on the
> list who
> lived in Boston, MA. I sent him a scratch track over
> which he laid
> down drums and sent 'em back to me. Then I overlayed
> instruments and
> sent that to another musician for more overlays. We had
> an entire CD-
> R of tunes recorded this way.
>
>
> If someone just bought an Alesis 16xyz whatever drum
> machine, and
> they are partiularly infatuated with it, fine, but I'm
> hoping folks
> consider other percussion options.
>
> -Marty
>
> >
> > ...Marty also wrote:
> > > I think the only thing I didn't like about the way
> > > the similar project worked on the Ventures list was
> > > that most folks used drum machines so a lot
> > > of it had a sterile sound.
> >
> > Keep it in perspective, this isn't a major label
> > release, this is an MP3 project for people on the
> > list. I would bet that 85% of the listmembers don't
> > have access to a studio, or even a drummer. This is
> > about friends sharing their music...
> >
> > Ferenc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search.
> Learn more.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That looks good, Brian. Any instructions on covers vs originals?
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Neal
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:37 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
Okay I've slept on it and looked over the ideas floating around on
the list. First of all, thank you greenbirdbath for suggesting the
idea! It's so obvious now...but it takes a new guy to suggest it.
That's great.
Here is what I am thinking, and please chime in with your thoughts.
I am squarely in the "Ferenc ideology" camp here. This is a neat way
for friends to make music for friends. The requirement? You are a
member of the list. This means everyone is invited, from the no-band
beginner to the giants of the genre who we are lucky to have with
us.
So in summary:
* Are you on the list? Then you're in.
* Don't think it's really surf? Let us decide, we just want to hear
what you sound like.
* I only have a drum machine. So what. We are all among friends here.
* I don't have a drum machine. So what. If you want to share some
music, even solo guitar, just do it.
As far as the mechanics, I only recently (!!) got a broadband
connection to the internet, so I think it will be okay if you guys
email me mp3 files (as long as they aren't 20 minute surf epics -
then you can snail-mail me a CD!). If you want to, please send along
a note with the song explaining who played on it, what
instruments/gear did you use, how it was recorded, who played what,
who wrote the song, yadda yadda yadda. And if you want to tab it,
then go ahead, that's optional (but I am sure some newbies would
appreciate it). I'll make a web page on sg101.com to post all of
this stuff (songs, descriptions, photos even, etc)
Yes it will be mp3's only, but that doesn't prevent anyone with a
halfway modern computer from downloading the files and burning their
own CD.
Artwork? That's awesome!! We could post it on the website and people
could download it and print it out themselves for their jewel cases.
As far as Double Crown or anyone else releasing it: first of all I
am extremely flattered. But on the other hand, I am wary of that.
Let's just hold off and see the end result first. I doubt Sean wants
to release demo quality stuff from amatures like me. But if some of
it is good enough for a release, then we can talk about that later.
I don't want to sound like an egotistical jerk, but I don't want to
attach the SG101 "brand" name to anything that sucks. I'm sure Sean
feels the same way regarding Double Crown. Again, this is just a fun
project amongst friends. I'd hate to have the general surf ignorant
public pick up our CD thinking it represented the pinacle of modern
surf only to hear me plunking on my Jaguar out of tune and out of
time in the basement. But given the talent on this list, surely some
of the songs would be worthy of a Double Crown compilation, with or
without the SG101 name attached to it. So again, let's just worry
about that later and have fun now.
DP asked about a time frame. I dunno? Three months? Depending on the
response we could make this a yearly event. It would be kind of neat
to see the progression people made over time too.
So what does everyone think of the above? I'll let you guys respond
and we can have some more discussion. After that, I'll put together
a list of submission guidelines and instructions on the SG101.com
website, hopefully this weekend depending on how long we take to
hammer things out.
Again, this is a really cool idea and I'm excited about it!
BN
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think this CD/project is a great idea. Id love to
hear the heavies, but id proably more interested in
what some ametuers came up with, as im a home recorder
myself.
drum machines arent too bad !, sometimes its the only
home recorders solution on a budget, or who never
plans on being that serious.
id say the one of the most "realest" songs ever
written uses a drum machine. thats brian wilson's "
'til i die".
of course my one beef with drum machines are the
perfect distances between each beat, but with some
work that can be resolved, or not.
btw im new to the list. hello everyone !
--- mctippens <> wrote:
>
> Hi again, Ferenc,
>
> Yes, I do understand that this is very informal and
> that's the way I
> like it. But I submit that there are options to the
> soul-less drum
> machine. It's much better, IMHO, to submit a
> recording sans drums
> than a recording with a drum machine. Lay down some
> tambourine or
> shaker for percussion. Dig what Jan and Arnie did on
> "Jennie Lee",
> they tapped out the percussion on a wooden chair and
> came up with hit
> with much more soul than something with a drum
> machine.
>
> Here's one for our new technology: I've been in the
> situation where I
> couldn't lay down drums without going to a studio.
> For an informal
> mp3 comp it wasn't worth it. I contacted a drummer
> on the list who
> lived in Boston, MA. I sent him a scratch track over
> which he laid
> down drums and sent 'em back to me. Then I overlayed
> instruments and
> sent that to another musician for more overlays. We
> had an entire CD-
> R of tunes recorded this way.
>
>
> If someone just bought an Alesis 16xyz whatever drum
> machine, and
> they are partiularly infatuated with it, fine, but
> I'm hoping folks
> consider other percussion options.
>
> -Marty
>
> >
> > ...Marty also wrote:
> > > I think the only thing I didn't like about the
> way
> > > the similar project worked on the Ventures list
> was
> > > that most folks used drum machines so a lot
> > > of it had a sterile sound.
> >
> > Keep it in perspective, this isn't a major label
> > release, this is an MP3 project for people on the
> > list. I would bet that 85% of the listmembers
> don't
> > have access to a studio, or even a drummer. This
> is
> > about friends sharing their music...
> >
> > Ferenc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> search. Learn more.
> >
>
>
>
>
You are so right there about the importance of kids learning music at a young
age, dp,
I think we can all agree to that! It's so good for their self esteem. I have
prejudice for percussion first, get the timing and then the notes. Of course
many parents put their kids through the piano route which is percussion and
melody at once. Don't no one worry, I have no intention on arguing my opinion on
this one any further! Start the youngin's on any instrument.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: DP
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
Kristena:
...I believe that kids should play music early on because it's
beneficial to their overall development. I don't think it
matters what they begin with: drums, guitar, bass,
keyboard, flute, recorder, xylophone...but, I do have a
prejudice towards the string instruments.
so, I guess you can caount me in to the "by ear" column...
regards,
dp
--- Kristena Hernandez <> wrote:
>
>
> > Surf music is so perfect for ear
> > training.
> > -Marty
>
>
> I'm curious, I don't read music and always played by ear.
> How many
> others here strictly play by ear?
>
> When I was young, we bought a piano. I started playing
> and replicating
> things I heard. I know what notes all the keys are, but
> I don't read
> them. When I was a little older, my mom tried to get
> lessons for me, but
> I fought it. Looking back, I wish I wouldn't have, but I
> was just a kid.
> According to my logic at 11 years old, "Why should I
> learn to play
> 'Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star' by reading notes when I
> could already work
> through classical pieces by ear?
>
> The same goes for the guitar. I fought that too. I
> could play bass as a
> teenager, but my hands always cramped up on me when I
> tried to play
> guitar. Regarding my kids, I had spoken to a member of
> the Hollywood
> String Quartet. He highly recommended starting kids on
> stringed
> instruments early for that reason--so their hand would be
> flexible. I
> know violin is much different than guitar, but does
> anyone here have any
> thoughts on this? Did anyone here start as an adult, or
> were you young
> when you started playing? I would bet that some of our
> favorite
> guitarists here started before adulthood.
>
> -Kristena
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and
> theater?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I concur with this one. There's not only reading the notes, but the
meter. When I took music appreciation I could figure out if something
was duple (2/4 or 4/4 timing) or triple (3/4 timing), but what I couldn't
figure out what the counts between (simple or complex, I think)! I have
never heard of that before. For example, simple duple means there is and
even amount of subdivisions between beats, but complex duple would mean
there was an uneven amount of subdivisions. Weird. And I had to figure
this out with classical music! Maybe someone else here knows more about
this. It was probably the hardest part of the class. I think a trained
ear could tell easily, though.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:43:17 -0800 "Marty Tippens"
<> writes:
>
> You are so right there about the importance of kids learning music
> at a young age, dp,
>
> I think we can all agree to that! It's so good for their self
> esteem. I have prejudice for percussion first, get the timing and
> then the notes. Of course many parents put their kids through the
> piano route which is percussion and melody at once. Don't no one
> worry, I have no intention on arguing my opinion on this one any
> further! Start the youngin's on any instrument.
> -Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DP
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation
> CD?
>
>
> Kristena:
>
> ...I believe that kids should play music early on because it's
> beneficial to their overall development. I don't think it
> matters what they begin with: drums, guitar, bass,
> keyboard, flute, recorder, xylophone...but, I do have a
> prejudice towards the string instruments.
>
> so, I guess you can caount me in to the "by ear" column...
>
> regards,
> dp
>
> --- Kristena Hernandez <> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > Surf music is so perfect for ear
> > > training.
> > > -Marty
> >
> >
> > I'm curious, I don't read music and always played by ear.
> > How many
> > others here strictly play by ear?
> >
> > When I was young, we bought a piano. I started playing
> > and replicating
> > things I heard. I know what notes all the keys are, but
> > I don't read
> > them. When I was a little older, my mom tried to get
> > lessons for me, but
> > I fought it. Looking back, I wish I wouldn't have, but I
> > was just a kid.
> > According to my logic at 11 years old, "Why should I
> > learn to play
> > 'Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star' by reading notes when I
> > could already work
> > through classical pieces by ear?
> >
> > The same goes for the guitar. I fought that too. I
> > could play bass as a
> > teenager, but my hands always cramped up on me when I
> > tried to play
> > guitar. Regarding my kids, I had spoken to a member of
> > the Hollywood
> > String Quartet. He highly recommended starting kids on
> > stringed
> > instruments early for that reason--so their hand would be
> > flexible. I
> > know violin is much different than guitar, but does
> > anyone here have any
> > thoughts on this? Did anyone here start as an adult, or
> > were you young
> > when you started playing? I would bet that some of our
> > favorite
> > guitarists here started before adulthood.
> >
> > -Kristena
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > What would our lives be like without music, dance, and
> > theater?
> > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for
> > Good!
> >
> >
>
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> >
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> >
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I hear you Marty...drum machines can just be simply
annoying. My cool drummer friend lives in Lincoln
Nebraska...and I don't think he has access to much
recording technology...else I'd hit him up for some remote
tracks...
maybe I'll break out the old realistic microphones and try
my hand on the crappy little f-around Hohner drum kit in
my music room. Couldn't be any worse sounding than some of
the drumming on "Surf Crazy"...right?
dp
--- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
>
> Yeah, that's true, DP. Your reminding me of the Robin
> Trower number that starts with a cheapo drum machine and
> then the real drummer joins in and it's purdy effective.
> But for the most part, people think they're beefin' up
> their tune with a drum machine when in fact the tune
> would sound a whole lot better without. Again, this is my
> humble opinion.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DP
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member
> Compilation CD?
>
>
> Then again...one could "be creative" using a drum
> machine...
> I like running my drum machine through different
> effects...and I also like using my Wurlitzer
> drummer...many
> drum machines can be played in "real-time" (manual)
> mode...just like "real" drums...
>
> and...there's always a whole variety of percusion
> instruments: things like claves and gueros and
> tamborines
> and bongos and all that.
>
> Maybe I could get Dusty to play "virtual-distance"
> bongos
> on my little cut?
>
> -dp
>
> --- mctippens <> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi again, Ferenc,
> >
> > Yes, I do understand that this is very informal and
> > that's the way I
> > like it. But I submit that there are options to the
> > soul-less drum
> > machine. It's much better, IMHO, to submit a
> recording
> > sans drums
> > than a recording with a drum machine. Lay down some
> > tambourine or
> > shaker for percussion. Dig what Jan and Arnie did on
> > "Jennie Lee",
> > they tapped out the percussion on a wooden chair and
> came
> > up with hit
> > with much more soul than something with a drum
> machine.
> >
> > Here's one for our new technology: I've been in the
> > situation where I
> > couldn't lay down drums without going to a studio.
> For an
> > informal
> > mp3 comp it wasn't worth it. I contacted a drummer on
> the
> > list who
> > lived in Boston, MA. I sent him a scratch track over
> > which he laid
> > down drums and sent 'em back to me. Then I overlayed
> > instruments and
> > sent that to another musician for more overlays. We
> had
> > an entire CD-
> > R of tunes recorded this way.
> >
> >
> > If someone just bought an Alesis 16xyz whatever drum
> > machine, and
> > they are partiularly infatuated with it, fine, but
> I'm
> > hoping folks
> > consider other percussion options.
> >
> > -Marty
> >
> > >
> > > ...Marty also wrote:
> > > > I think the only thing I didn't like about the
> way
> > > > the similar project worked on the Ventures list
> was
> > > > that most folks used drum machines so a lot
> > > > of it had a sterile sound.
> > >
> > > Keep it in perspective, this isn't a major label
> > > release, this is an MP3 project for people on the
> > > list. I would bet that 85% of the listmembers don't
> > > have access to a studio, or even a drummer. This is
> > > about friends sharing their music...
> > >
> > > Ferenc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> search.
> > Learn more.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > What would our lives be like without music, dance,
> and
> > theater?
> > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for
> > Good!
> >
>
> >
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
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> >
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> > Visit for
> > archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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I agree, the rules and the deadline sound totally workable.
thanks again Brian, for all you do.
dp
--- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
>
> That looks good, Brian. Any instructions on covers vs
> originals?
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian Neal
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:37 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member
> Compilation CD?
>
>
>
> Okay I've slept on it and looked over the ideas
> floating around on
> the list. First of all, thank you greenbirdbath for
> suggesting the
> idea! It's so obvious now...but it takes a new guy to
> suggest it.
> That's great.
>
> Here is what I am thinking, and please chime in with
> your thoughts.
>
> I am squarely in the "Ferenc ideology" camp here. This
> is a neat way
> for friends to make music for friends. The requirement?
> You are a
> member of the list. This means everyone is invited,
> from the no-band
> beginner to the giants of the genre who we are lucky to
> have with
> us.
>
> So in summary:
>
> * Are you on the list? Then you're in.
> * Don't think it's really surf? Let us decide, we just
> want to hear
> what you sound like.
> * I only have a drum machine. So what. We are all among
> friends here.
> * I don't have a drum machine. So what. If you want to
> share some
> music, even solo guitar, just do it.
>
> As far as the mechanics, I only recently (!!) got a
> broadband
> connection to the internet, so I think it will be okay
> if you guys
> email me mp3 files (as long as they aren't 20 minute
> surf epics -
> then you can snail-mail me a CD!). If you want to,
> please send along
> a note with the song explaining who played on it, what
> instruments/gear did you use, how it was recorded, who
> played what,
> who wrote the song, yadda yadda yadda. And if you want
> to tab it,
> then go ahead, that's optional (but I am sure some
> newbies would
> appreciate it). I'll make a web page on sg101.com to
> post all of
> this stuff (songs, descriptions, photos even, etc)
>
> Yes it will be mp3's only, but that doesn't prevent
> anyone with a
> halfway modern computer from downloading the files and
> burning their
> own CD.
>
> Artwork? That's awesome!! We could post it on the
> website and people
> could download it and print it out themselves for their
> jewel cases.
>
> As far as Double Crown or anyone else releasing it:
> first of all I
> am extremely flattered. But on the other hand, I am
> wary of that.
> Let's just hold off and see the end result first. I
> doubt Sean wants
> to release demo quality stuff from amatures like me.
> But if some of
> it is good enough for a release, then we can talk about
> that later.
> I don't want to sound like an egotistical jerk, but I
> don't want to
> attach the SG101 "brand" name to anything that sucks.
> I'm sure Sean
> feels the same way regarding Double Crown. Again, this
> is just a fun
> project amongst friends. I'd hate to have the general
> surf ignorant
> public pick up our CD thinking it represented the
> pinacle of modern
> surf only to hear me plunking on my Jaguar out of tune
> and out of
> time in the basement. But given the talent on this
> list, surely some
> of the songs would be worthy of a Double Crown
> compilation, with or
> without the SG101 name attached to it. So again, let's
> just worry
> about that later and have fun now.
>
> DP asked about a time frame. I dunno? Three months?
> Depending on the
> response we could make this a yearly event. It would be
> kind of neat
> to see the progression people made over time too.
>
> So what does everyone think of the above? I'll let you
> guys respond
> and we can have some more discussion. After that, I'll
> put together
> a list of submission guidelines and instructions on the
> SG101.com
> website, hopefully this weekend depending on how long
> we take to
> hammer things out.
>
> Again, this is a really cool idea and I'm excited about
> it!
>
>
> BN
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for
> archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
>
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when you play by ear, complex meter goes something like
this:
"wait...listen...hear how it does that?...okay now you
try..."
:) dp
(PS:I know,...I'm an idiot...)
--- Kristena Hernandez <> wrote:
>
> I concur with this one. There's not only reading the
> notes, but the
> meter. When I took music appreciation I could figure out
> if something
> was duple (2/4 or 4/4 timing) or triple (3/4 timing), but
> what I couldn't
> figure out what the counts between (simple or complex, I
> think)! I have
> never heard of that before. For example, simple duple
> means there is and
> even amount of subdivisions between beats, but complex
> duple wou
ld mean
> there was an uneven amount of subdivisions. Weird. And
> I had to figure
> this out with classical music! Maybe someone else here
> knows more about
> this. It was probably the hardest part of the class. I
> think a trained
> ear could tell easily, though.
>
>
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:43:17 -0800 "Marty Tippens"
> <> writes:
> >
> > You are so right there about the importance of kids
> learning music
> > at a young age, dp,
> >
> > I think we can all agree to that! It's so good for
> their self
> > esteem. I have prejudice for percussion first, get the
> timing and
> > then the notes. Of course many parents put their kids
> through the
> > piano route which is percussion and melody at once.
> Don't no one
> > worry, I have no intention on arguing my opinion on
> this one any
> > further! Start the youngin's on any instrument.
> > -Marty
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: DP
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 5:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member
> Compilation
> > CD?
> >
> >
> > Kristena:
> >
> > ...I believe that kids should play music early on
> because it's
> > beneficial to their overall development. I don't
> think it
> > matters what they begin with: drums, guitar, bass,
> > keyboard, flute, recorder, xylophone...but, I do have
> a
> > prejudice towards the string instruments.
> >
> > so, I guess you can caount me in to the "by ear"
> column...
> >
> > regards,
> > dp
> >
> > --- Kristena Hernandez <> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Surf music is so perfect for ear
> > > > training.
> > > > -Marty
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm curious, I don't read music and always played
> by ear.
> > > How many
> > > others here strictly play by ear?
> > >
> > > When I was young, we bought a piano. I started
> playing
> > > and replicating
> > > things I heard. I know what notes all the keys
> are, but
> > > I don't read
> > > them. When I was a little older, my mom tried to
> get
> > > lessons for me, but
> > > I fought it. Looking back, I wish I wouldn't have,
> but I
> > > was just a kid.
> > > According to my logic at 11 years old, "Why should
> I
> > > learn to play
> > > 'Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star' by reading notes
> when I
> > > could already work
> > > through classical pieces by ear?
> > >
> > > The same goes for the guitar. I fought that too.
> I
> > > could play bass as a
> > > teenager, but my hands always cramped up on me when
> I
> > > tried to play
> > > guitar. Regarding my kids, I had spoken to a
> member of
> > > the Hollywood
> > > String Quartet. He highly recommended starting
> kids on
> > > stringed
> > > instruments early for that reason--so their hand
> would be
> > > flexible. I
> > > know violin is much different than guitar, but does
> > > anyone here have any
> > > thoughts on this? Did anyone here start as an
> adult, or
> > > were you young
> > > when you started playing? I would bet that some of
> our
> > > favorite
> > > guitarists here started before adulthood.
> > >
> > > -Kristena
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------~-->
> > > What would our lives be like without music, dance,
> and
> > > theater?
> > > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network
> for
> > > Good!
> > >
>
> > >
> >
> >
>
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> >
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> > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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Are you talkin' about the GNP Crescendo comp called Surf Crazy, dp? It's one of
my favorites. It's the only place to get one of the greatest surf tracks of all
time, "Blue Soul" by The Rhythm Kings. That one gets me everytime. There's other
great tracks on their as well. "Goofy-Foot Hodad", or whatever the real title
is, is too funny.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: DP
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
I hear you Marty...drum machines can just be simply
annoying. My cool drummer friend lives in Lincoln
Nebraska...and I don't think he has access to much
recording technology...else I'd hit him up for some remote
tracks...
maybe I'll break out the old realistic microphones and try
my hand on the crappy little f-around Hohner drum kit in
my music room. Couldn't be any worse sounding than some of
the drumming on "Surf Crazy"...right?
dp
--- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
>
> Yeah, that's true, DP. Your reminding me of the Robin
> Trower number that starts with a cheapo drum machine and
> then the real drummer joins in and it's purdy effective.
> But for the most part, people think they're beefin' up
> their tune with a drum machine when in fact the tune
> would sound a whole lot better without. Again, this is my
> humble opinion.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DP
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member
> Compilation CD?
>
>
> Then again...one could "be creative" using a drum
> machine...
> I like running my drum machine through different
> effects...and I also like using my Wurlitzer
> drummer...many
> drum machines can be played in "real-time" (manual)
> mode...just like "real" drums...
>
> and...there's always a whole variety of percusion
> instruments: things like claves and gueros and
> tamborines
> and bongos and all that.
>
> Maybe I could get Dusty to play "virtual-distance"
> bongos
> on my little cut?
>
> -dp
>
> --- mctippens <> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi again, Ferenc,
> >
> > Yes, I do understand that this is very informal and
> > that's the way I
> > like it. But I submit that there are options to the
> > soul-less drum
> > machine. It's much better, IMHO, to submit a
> recording
> > sans drums
> > than a recording with a drum machine. Lay down some
> > tambourine or
> > shaker for percussion. Dig what Jan and Arnie did on
> > "Jennie Lee",
> > they tapped out the percussion on a wooden chair and
> came
> > up with hit
> > with much more soul than something with a drum
> machine.
> >
> > Here's one for our new technology: I've been in the
> > situation where I
> > couldn't lay down drums without going to a studio.
> For an
> > informal
> > mp3 comp it wasn't worth it. I contacted a drummer on
> the
> > list who
> > lived in Boston, MA. I sent him a scratch track over
> > which he laid
> > down drums and sent 'em back to me. Then I overlayed
> > instruments and
> > sent that to another musician for more overlays. We
> had
> > an entire CD-
> > R of tunes recorded this way.
> >
> >
> > If someone just bought an Alesis 16xyz whatever drum
> > machine, and
> > they are partiularly infatuated with it, fine, but
> I'm
> > hoping folks
> > consider other percussion options.
> >
> > -Marty
> >
> > >
> > > ...Marty also wrote:
> > > > I think the only thing I didn't like about the
> way
> > > > the similar project worked on the Ventures list
> was
> > > > that most folks used drum machines so a lot
> > > > of it had a sterile sound.
> > >
> > > Keep it in perspective, this isn't a major label
> > > release, this is an MP3 project for people on the
> > > list. I would bet that 85% of the listmembers don't
> > > have access to a studio, or even a drummer. This is
> > > about friends sharing their music...
> > >
> > > Ferenc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> search.
> > Learn more.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
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> and
> > theater?
> > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for
> > Good!
> >
>
> >
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
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> > archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks! You cleared that one up for me! :) :) :) :)
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 22:47:24 -0800 (PST) DP <> writes:
>
> when you play by ear, complex meter goes something like
> this:
>
> "wait...listen...hear how it does that?...okay now you
> try..."
>
> :) dp
>
> (PS:I know,...I'm an idiot...)
I think I'm refering to the old "Surf Crazy" Crescendo LP
(cassette?) with Bob Vaught and the Renegaids among
others...
If my memory serves me right, that LP had super-crappy
dynamics, lack of tuning and sloppy barely audible drums.
I guess I was saying I could do really sloppy and crappy
real drums in my garage.
:) dp
--- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
>
> Are you talkin' about the GNP Crescendo comp called Surf
> Crazy, dp? It's one of my favorites. It's the only place
> to get one of the greatest surf tracks of all time, "Blue
> Soul" by The Rhythm Kings. That one gets me everytime.
> There's other great tracks on their as well. "Goofy-Foot
> Hodad", or whatever the real title is, is too funny.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DP
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member
> Compilation CD?
>
>
> I hear you Marty...drum machines can just be simply
> annoying. My cool drummer friend lives in Lincoln
> Nebraska...and I don't think he has access to much
> recording technology...else I'd hit him up for some
> remote
> tracks...
>
> maybe I'll break out the old realistic microphones and
> try
> my hand on the crappy little f-around Hohner drum kit
> in
> my music room. Couldn't be any worse sounding than
> some of
> the drumming on "Surf Crazy"...right?
>
> dp
>
>
> --- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yeah, that's true, DP. Your reminding me of the
> Robin
> > Trower number that starts with a cheapo drum machine
> and
> > then the real drummer joins in and it's purdy
> effective.
> > But for the most part, people think they're beefin'
> up
> > their tune with a drum machine when in fact the tune
> > would sound a whole lot better without. Again, this
> is my
> > humble opinion.
> > -Marty
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: DP
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101
> Member
> > Compilation CD?
> >
> >
> > Then again...one could "be creative" using a drum
> > machine...
> > I like running my drum machine through different
> > effects...and I also like using my Wurlitzer
> > drummer...many
> > drum machines can be played in "real-time" (manual)
> > mode...just like "real" drums...
> >
> > and...there's always a whole variety of percusion
> > instruments: things like claves and gueros and
> > tamborines
> > and bongos and all that.
> >
> > Maybe I could get Dusty to play "virtual-distance"
> > bongos
> > on my little cut?
> >
> > -dp
> >
> > --- mctippens <> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi again, Ferenc,
> > >
> > > Yes, I do understand that this is very informal
> and
> > > that's the way I
> > > like it. But I submit that there are options to
> the
> > > soul-less drum
> > > machine. It's much better, IMHO, to submit a
> > recording
> > > sans drums
> > > than a recording with a drum machine. Lay down
> some
> > > tambourine or
> > > shaker for percussion. Dig what Jan and Arnie did
> on
> > > "Jennie Lee",
> > > they tapped out the percussion on a wooden chair
> and
> > came
> > > up with hit
> > > with much more soul than something with a drum
> > machine.
> > >
> > > Here's one for our new technology: I've been in
> the
> > > situation where I
> > > couldn't lay down drums without going to a
> studio.
> > For an
> > > informal
> > > mp3 comp it wasn't worth it. I contacted a
> drummer on
> > the
> > > list who
> > > lived in Boston, MA. I sent him a scratch track
> over
> > > which he laid
> > > down drums and sent 'em back to me. Then I
> overlayed
> > > instruments and
> > > sent that to another musician for more overlays.
> We
> > had
> > > an entire CD-
> > > R of tunes recorded this way.
> > >
> > >
> > > If someone just bought an Alesis 16xyz whatever
> drum
> > > machine, and
> > > they are partiularly infatuated with it, fine,
> but
> > I'm
> > > hoping folks
> > > consider other percussion options.
> > >
> > > -Marty
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ...Marty also wrote:
> > > > > I think the only thing I didn't like about
> the
> > way
> > > > > the similar project worked on the Ventures
> list
> > was
> > > > > that most folks used drum machines so a lot
> > > > > of it had a sterile sound.
> > > >
> > > > Keep it in perspective, this isn't a major
> label
> > > > release, this is an MP3 project for people on
> the
> > > > list. I would bet that 85% of the listmembers
> don't
> > > > have access to a studio, or even a drummer.
> This is
> > > > about friends sharing their music...
> > > >
> > > > Ferenc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> > search.
> > > Learn more.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------~-->
> > > What would our lives be like without music,
> dance,
> > and
> > > theater?
> > > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network
> for
> > > Good!
> > >
> >
>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
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> > >
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> > > Visit
> for
> > > archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
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Great I'm in, just tell me when and where.Our cds just about ready I
can pop a cut off and send it in.PS are you guys still talking about
tab? My opinion is still the same whatever works! Miller
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> That looks good, Brian. Any instructions on covers vs originals?
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian Neal
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:37 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
>
>
>
> Okay I've slept on it and looked over the ideas floating around
on
> the list. First of all, thank you greenbirdbath for suggesting
the
> idea! It's so obvious now...but it takes a new guy to suggest it.
> That's great.
>
> Here is what I am thinking, and please chime in with your
thoughts.
>
> I am squarely in the "Ferenc ideology" camp here. This is a neat
way
> for friends to make music for friends. The requirement? You are a
> member of the list. This means everyone is invited, from the no-
band
> beginner to the giants of the genre who we are lucky to have with
> us.
>
> So in summary:
>
> * Are you on the list? Then you're in.
> * Don't think it's really surf? Let us decide, we just want to
hear
> what you sound like.
> * I only have a drum machine. So what. We are all among friends
here.
> * I don't have a drum machine. So what. If you want to share some
> music, even solo guitar, just do it.
>
> As far as the mechanics, I only recently (!!) got a broadband
> connection to the internet, so I think it will be okay if you
guys
> email me mp3 files (as long as they aren't 20 minute surf epics -
> then you can snail-mail me a CD!). If you want to, please send
along
> a note with the song explaining who played on it, what
> instruments/gear did you use, how it was recorded, who played
what,
> who wrote the song, yadda yadda yadda. And if you want to tab it,
> then go ahead, that's optional (but I am sure some newbies would
> appreciate it). I'll make a web page on sg101.com to post all of
> this stuff (songs, descriptions, photos even, etc)
>
> Yes it will be mp3's only, but that doesn't prevent anyone with a
> halfway modern computer from downloading the files and burning
their
> own CD.
>
> Artwork? That's awesome!! We could post it on the website and
people
> could download it and print it out themselves for their jewel
cases.
>
> As far as Double Crown or anyone else releasing it: first of all
I
> am extremely flattered. But on the other hand, I am wary of that.
> Let's just hold off and see the end result first. I doubt Sean
wants
> to release demo quality stuff from amatures like me. But if some
of
> it is good enough for a release, then we can talk about that
later.
> I don't want to sound like an egotistical jerk, but I don't want
to
> attach the SG101 "brand" name to anything that sucks. I'm sure
Sean
> feels the same way regarding Double Crown. Again, this is just a
fun
> project amongst friends. I'd hate to have the general surf
ignorant
> public pick up our CD thinking it represented the pinacle of
modern
> surf only to hear me plunking on my Jaguar out of tune and out of
> time in the basement. But given the talent on this list, surely
some
> of the songs would be worthy of a Double Crown compilation, with
or
> without the SG101 name attached to it. So again, let's just worry
> about that later and have fun now.
>
> DP asked about a time frame. I dunno? Three months? Depending on
the
> response we could make this a yearly event. It would be kind of
neat
> to see the progression people made over time too.
>
> So what does everyone think of the above? I'll let you guys
respond
> and we can have some more discussion. After that, I'll put
together
> a list of submission guidelines and instructions on the SG101.com
> website, hopefully this weekend depending on how long we take to
> hammer things out.
>
> Again, this is a really cool idea and I'm excited about it!
>
>
> BN
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
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for those home recording action, i got myself an apple ibook ($$ ). i guess
there will be cheaper way to do so.
anyway, it came with a recording software "garageband" and its very easy to
use.
you can add as much as tracks as you want, quasi. lots of sounds to make out.
most of them are probably no useful, but with a cheap keystation i can play
the drums in real time, and thats by far no perfect, but it sounds not too
bad...
btw, im one of those amateurs and i could hardly await to add my two cents
(mustard) to that comp.
marco
--- In , "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
>
> I think this CD/project is a great idea. Id love to
> hear the heavies, but id proably more interested in
> what some ametuers came up with, as im a home recorder
> myself.
>
> drum machines arent too bad !, sometimes its the only
> home recorders solution on a budget, or who never
> plans on being that serious.
> id say the one of the most "realest" songs ever
> written uses a drum machine. thats brian wilson's "
> 'til i die".
> of course my one beef with drum machines are the
> perfect distances between each beat, but with some
> work that can be resolved, or not.
>
> btw im new to the list. hello everyone !
>
>
>
> --- mctippens <mctippens@e...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi again, Ferenc,
> >
> > Yes, I do understand that this is very informal and
> > that's the way I
> > like it. But I submit that there are options to the
> > soul-less drum
> > machine. It's much better, IMHO, to submit a
> > recording sans drums
> > than a recording with a drum machine. Lay down some
> > tambourine or
> > shaker for percussion. Dig what Jan and Arnie did on
> > "Jennie Lee",
> > they tapped out the percussion on a wooden chair and
> > came up with hit
> > with much more soul than something with a drum
> > machine.
> >
> > Here's one for our new technology: I've been in the
> > situation where I
> > couldn't lay down drums without going to a studio.
> > For an informal
> > mp3 comp it wasn't worth it. I contacted a drummer
> > on the list who
> > lived in Boston, MA. I sent him a scratch track over
> > which he laid
> > down drums and sent 'em back to me. Then I overlayed
> > instruments and
> > sent that to another musician for more overlays. We
> > had an entire CD-
> > R of tunes recorded this way.
> >
> >
> > If someone just bought an Alesis 16xyz whatever drum
> > machine, and
> > they are partiularly infatuated with it, fine, but
> > I'm hoping folks
> > consider other percussion options.
> >
> > -Marty
> >
> > >
> > > ...Marty also wrote:
> > > > I think the only thing I didn't like about the
> > way
> > > > the similar project worked on the Ventures list
> > was
> > > > that most folks used drum machines so a lot
> > > > of it had a sterile sound.
> > >
> > > Keep it in perspective, this isn't a major label
> > > release, this is an MP3 project for people on the
> > > list. I would bet that 85% of the listmembers
> > don't
> > > have access to a studio, or even a drummer. This
> > is
> > > about friends sharing their music...
> > >
> > > Ferenc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> > search. Learn more.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
As I've read through this I'm starting to feel like all the guys out
there who ARE NOT in bands and are going to be doing this by
themselves should get 1st dibs on spots on the CD. Anyone else
agree? That being said, I would still really like to get our band
on it as well.
Bill
the Reluctant Aquanauts
www.freewebs.com/reluctantaquanauts
Well it's not really a CD, Bill. It's a collection of mp3's posted on the net
from which folks can burn their own CD-R. If there are a lotta tracks, then
maybe it would require two CD-R's. That would be great! There's no issue of
"Who's On First".
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: supertwangreverb
To:
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 7:51 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
As I've read through this I'm starting to feel like all the guys out
there who ARE NOT in bands and are going to be doing this by
themselves should get 1st dibs on spots on the CD. Anyone else
agree? That being said, I would still really like to get our band
on it as well.
Bill
the Reluctant Aquanauts
www.freewebs.com/reluctantaquanauts
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I have to agree with Marty about percussion first for kids. In my
experience, the guys who started out on drums (1) found it easiest to pick
up other instruments as time went on and (2) were lights out on 'em when
they did.
But my boy didn't want to try drums, but violin in the school orchestra,
then later guitar on his own.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Tippens [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:43 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
You are so right there about the importance of kids learning music at a
young age, dp,
I think we can all agree to that! It's so good for their self esteem. I
have prejudice for percussion first, get the timing and then the notes. Of
course many parents put their kids through the piano route which is
percussion and melody at once. Don't no one worry, I have no intention on
arguing my opinion on this one any further! Start the youngin's on any
instrument.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: DP
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
Kristena:
...I believe that kids should play music early on because it's
beneficial to their overall development. I don't think it
matters what they begin with: drums, guitar, bass,
keyboard, flute, recorder, xylophone...but, I do have a
prejudice towards the string instruments.
so, I guess you can caount me in to the "by ear" column...
regards,
dp
--- Kristena Hernandez <> wrote:
>
>
> > Surf music is so perfect for ear
> > training.
> > -Marty
>
>
> I'm curious, I don't read music and always played by ear.
> How many
> others here strictly play by ear?
>
> When I was young, we bought a piano. I started playing
> and replicating
> things I heard. I know what notes all the keys are, but
> I don't read
> them. When I was a little older, my mom tried to get
> lessons for me, but
> I fought it. Looking back, I wish I wouldn't have, but I
> was just a kid.
> According to my logic at 11 years old, "Why should I
> learn to play
> 'Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star' by reading notes when I
> could already work
> through classical pieces by ear?
>
> The same goes for the guitar. I fought that too. I
> could play bass as a
> teenager, but my hands always cramped up on me when I
> tried to play
> guitar. Regarding my kids, I had spoken to a member of
> the Hollywood
> String Quartet. He highly recommended starting kids on
> stringed
> instruments early for that reason--so their hand would be
> flexible. I
> know violin is much different than guitar, but does
> anyone here have any
> thoughts on this? Did anyone here start as an adult, or
> were you young
> when you started playing? I would bet that some of our
> favorite
> guitarists here started before adulthood.
>
> -Kristena
>
>
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Hello, I think sharing the MP3's is a great idea. Having a little
trouble sorting out the messages though. Could someone point me to a
summary of the guidelines, or are we still coming up with them? Also,
is it OK to record covers? Thanks, Casey
--- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
wrote:
> Well it's not really a CD, Bill. It's a collection of mp3's posted
on the net from which folks can burn their own CD-R. If there are a
lotta tracks, then maybe it would require two CD-R's. That would be
great! There's no issue of "Who's On First".
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: supertwangreverb
> To:
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 7:51 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: SurfGuitar101 Member Compilation CD?
>
>
>
> As I've read through this I'm starting to feel like all the guys out
> there who ARE NOT in bands and are going to be doing this by
> themselves should get 1st dibs on spots on the CD. Anyone else
> agree? That being said, I would still really like to get our band
> on it as well.
>
> Bill
> the Reluctant Aquanauts
> www.freewebs.com/reluctantaquanauts
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One more thought before we go "live" with this.
As people send me their mp3's should I post them as I get them or unveil
them all at the end of the deadline? Kind of a dumb question, but maybe
some people would get intimidated if the real "bands" on the list made
songs available first. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone. But I think
as long as everyone understood that this wasn't a contest and that there
will be different skill levels, we should be okay. Thoughts...???
Thanks,
BN
> As people send me their mp3's should I post them as I get them or
unveil
> them all at the end of the deadline? Kind of a dumb question, but
maybe
> some people would get intimidated if the real "bands" on the list
made
> songs available first. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone. But I
think
> as long as everyone understood that this wasn't a contest and that
there
> will be different skill levels, we should be okay. Thoughts...???
When is the deadline?
Brian, that was my intial idea when I said to keep the bands as
almost after thoughts and let all the guys who don't get to play out
as much have first dibs. I've talked to so many guys from here who
consider those of us in bands lucky that we get to just play with
other surf musicians. But if it's not really a "CD" as in the sense
of filling up slots you should just put em up when you get them. Or
wait until the dealine. If you put em up as you receive them that's
mroe work for you.
