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Hey all,
Here's a technical question for all you electrical engineers out there,
and Dave Wronski cause you'll probably have the answer.
Last night The Nebulas played a show with Gein and The Graverobbers.
There was a band who opened up for us, and during their set, there was a
NASTY 60 Hz buzz coming from either the guitar player's amp or the PA or all
of the above.
For Gein's set, the reverb seemed a little weak.
When we got up and set up, I noticed my rig didn't have nearly the drip
I'm used to at those settings on the amp and tank. We also noticed that all
of us had to turn our gear up a lot more than usual to get the volume we
expect at much lower settings. For what it's worth, the bass sounded
"boingy" and not as "bassy" as it should sound.
What would cause this type of stuff? Ungrounded circuits? Whole stage
being run off one socket?
We've played stages that you could TELL were built and wired properly,
and our gear sounded great. This definitely isn't one of those stages. Is
there any way to test the integrity of the power coming through or the
ground quality? Thanks!
-Dano
-=The Nebulas=-
_________________________________________________________________
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
-=Dan Ware=- wrote:
>
> Is
> there any way to test the integrity of the power coming
> through or the
> ground quality? Thanks!
I dunno about testing the power coming through, but you can get
ground-testing plugs at just about any hardware store. These are little
plastic units, with a three-prong plug, that you plug into any
electrical socket. They usually have three or four lights or LEDs on
them, which will light, or not light, in a coded sequence. A little
diagram on the unit will show you what the various light patterns mean.
These are usually used by electricians, for testing electrical sockets -
they can diagnose a number of wiring mishaps.
Check your local hardware store, or "home depot"...
-c*
Hmmm....
It's a given fact that vintage nuclear power plants like Three Miles Island
or Tjernobill had better tone.
Besides that, a bad or no earth connection causes hum. Also the proximity of
lightning equipment, especially neon, transformers for halogen spots and
dimmers can give interference's.
Roland Bettenville
-------Original Message-------
From:
Date: zondag 16 november 2003 07:21:49
To: ; ;
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] club power
Hey all,
Here's a technical question for all you electrical engineers out there,
and Dave Wronski cause you'll probably have the answer.
Last night The Nebulas played a show with Gein and The Graverobbers.
There was a band who opened up for us, and during their set, there was a
NASTY 60 Hz buzz coming from either the guitar player's amp or the PA or all
of the above.
For Gein's set, the reverb seemed a little weak.
When we got up and set up, I noticed my rig didn't have nearly the drip
I'm used to at those settings on the amp and tank. We also noticed that all
of us had to turn our gear up a lot more than usual to get the volume we
expect at much lower settings. For what it's worth, the bass sounded
"boingy" and not as "bassy" as it should sound.
What would cause this type of stuff? Ungrounded circuits? Whole stage
being run off one socket?
We've played stages that you could TELL were built and wired properly,
and our gear sounded great. This definitely isn't one of those stages. Is
there any way to test the integrity of the power coming through or the
ground quality? Thanks!
-Dano
-=The Nebulas=-
_________________________________________________________________
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Whenever you hear "buzz", or any type of noise coming out of your guitar amp,
the frequencies of the "buzz" has replaced the sound of the guitar at the same
frequencies. So, more "buzz", less guitar. When you control the noise, more
"resolution" of the guitar sound is apparent.
Single coil guitar pickups pass on the "magnet flux" that is in the air that is
generated by neon signs, ice machines, etc., to the amplifier.
I use the old MXR Noise Gate / Line Driver which shuts off the noise coming
through the air into the pickups, but only works when you're not playing.
I have the new MXR "Smart Gate" which you can put after the reverb / echo and
control the time rate of the gate closer function so the reverb and echo trails
can get through {be heard} before the gate shuts down the signal. I'm not sure
yet how good this works.
If you play a Jaguar or Jazzmaster, the middle position { two pickups on } will
cancel the "buzz" coning into the pickups from the air.
Here's tip for stopping "buzz" that coming from the reverb tank. The reverb tank
also has single coil pickups inside, so if you hear noise, try moving the tank a
45 degree angle to cancel out the noise. Just like when you change the direction
you face your guitar, the "buzz" level decreases.
Here's another tip to make your reverb tank quieter. * But if you want to be
safest, have a tech help you *
I put metal shielding either on the outside { over the grill cloth, under the
Fender logo or - if your restoring, or making a new box, put the foil shield
under the grill cloth } or inside the box on the front board where the tank
clamps down. If you put it inside, wrap plastic wrap around it to electrically
isolate it so it won't short out on the springs. Also, if you put the foil on
the inside you will have to work around the foam that holds the springs when the
tank is clamped down.
THEN, you must ground it to the chassis of the reverb unit, or it will act as an
antenna and increase noise! I use the mounting screw for the chassis to ground
the foil shield.
For the front mounted shield, run a wire from a front board mounting screw to a
chassis mounting screw to complete the ground. Use an Ohm meter to be sure you
have made a good ground connection.
I don't know about the re-issue reverb tanks, but the old ones did not have any
shielding on the inside of the wooden back panel. I use aluminum foil{ maybe 4
layers} , just like the job above, and don't forget to wrap plastic wrap around
it to avoid contact with High Voltage. Again, make sure this rear mounted shield
is grounded to the chassis.
If you use the reverb built in a combo amp, take out the tank form the bag, take
the cardboard panel off and wrap a piece of foil around the OUTSIDE, and bring
it around so when you screw the tank back down it will hold the foil in place.
For a consistent source of AC power I use a Furman AR-117. The new model is
here...
This is a great help when the power coming from the wall is lower {or higher}
than 117. It will automatically adjust so you amp will run at it's best. That's
good for the tubes, and good for the sound. I always have one of those AC line
checkers { Radio Shack }stuck in one of the outlets to see if any of the club
owners have done an improper { unsafe } wiring job on the stage outlets.
hope this helps,
-dave
-=Dan Ware=- <> wrote:Hey all,
Here's a technical question for all you electrical engineers out there,
and Dave Wronski cause you'll probably have the answer.
Last night The Nebulas played a show with Gein and The Graverobbers.
There was a band who opened up for us, and during their set, there was a
NASTY 60 Hz buzz coming from either the guitar player's amp or the PA or all
of the above.
For Gein's set, the reverb seemed a little weak.
When we got up and set up, I noticed my rig didn't have nearly the drip
I'm used to at those settings on the amp and tank. We also noticed that all
of us had to turn our gear up a lot more than usual to get the volume we
expect at much lower settings. For what it's worth, the bass sounded
"boingy" and not as "bassy" as it should sound.
What would cause this type of stuff? Ungrounded circuits? Whole stage
being run off one socket?
We've played stages that you could TELL were built and wired properly,
and our gear sounded great. This definitely isn't one of those stages. Is
there any way to test the integrity of the power coming through or the
ground quality? Thanks!
-Dano
-=The Nebulas=-
_________________________________________________________________
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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---------------------------------
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Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Dave! Jeez, I almost feel like I should be paying by the hour for
that much info. :)
-Dano
-=The Nebulas=-
>From: dave wronski <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] club power
>Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 06:18:34 -0800 (PST)
>
>Whenever you hear "buzz", or any type of noise coming out of your guitar
>amp, the frequencies of the "buzz" has replaced the sound of the guitar at
>the same frequencies. So, more "buzz", less guitar. When you control the
>noise, more "resolution" of the guitar sound is apparent.
>
>Single coil guitar pickups pass on the "magnet flux" that is in the air
>that is generated by neon signs, ice machines, etc., to the amplifier.
>
>I use the old MXR Noise Gate / Line Driver which shuts off the noise coming
>through the air into the pickups, but only works when you're not playing.
>
>I have the new MXR "Smart Gate" which you can put after the reverb / echo
>and control the time rate of the gate closer function so the reverb and
>echo trails can get through {be heard} before the gate shuts down the
>signal. I'm not sure yet how good this works.
>
>If you play a Jaguar or Jazzmaster, the middle position { two pickups on }
>will cancel the "buzz" coning into the pickups from the air.
>
>Here's tip for stopping "buzz" that coming from the reverb tank. The reverb
>tank also has single coil pickups inside, so if you hear noise, try moving
>the tank a 45 degree angle to cancel out the noise. Just like when you
>change the direction you face your guitar, the "buzz" level decreases.
>
>Here's another tip to make your reverb tank quieter. * But if you want to
>be safest, have a tech help you *
>
>I put metal shielding either on the outside { over the grill cloth, under
>the Fender logo or - if your restoring, or making a new box, put the foil
>shield under the grill cloth } or inside the box on the front board where
>the tank clamps down. If you put it inside, wrap plastic wrap around it to
>electrically isolate it so it won't short out on the springs. Also, if you
>put the foil on the inside you will have to work around the foam that holds
>the springs when the tank is clamped down.
>THEN, you must ground it to the chassis of the reverb unit, or it will act
>as an antenna and increase noise! I use the mounting screw for the chassis
>to ground the foil shield.
>For the front mounted shield, run a wire from a front board mounting screw
>to a chassis mounting screw to complete the ground. Use an Ohm meter to be
>sure you have made a good ground connection.
>
>I don't know about the re-issue reverb tanks, but the old ones did not have
>any shielding on the inside of the wooden back panel. I use aluminum foil{
>maybe 4 layers} , just like the job above, and don't forget to wrap plastic
>wrap around it to avoid contact with High Voltage. Again, make sure this
>rear mounted shield is grounded to the chassis.
>
>If you use the reverb built in a combo amp, take out the tank form the bag,
>take the cardboard panel off and wrap a piece of foil around the OUTSIDE,
>and bring it around so when you screw the tank back down it will hold the
>foil in place.
>
>
>
>For a consistent source of AC power I use a Furman AR-117. The new model is
>here...
>This is a great help when the power coming from the wall is lower {or
>higher} than 117. It will automatically adjust so you amp will run at it's
>best. That's good for the tubes, and good for the sound. I always have one
>of those AC line checkers { Radio Shack }stuck in one of the outlets to
>see if any of the club owners have done an improper { unsafe } wiring job
>on the stage outlets.
>
>hope this helps,
>
>-dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-=Dan Ware=- <> wrote:Hey all,
>
> Here's a technical question for all you electrical engineers out there,
>and Dave Wronski cause you'll probably have the answer.
>
> Last night The Nebulas played a show with Gein and The Graverobbers.
>There was a band who opened up for us, and during their set, there was a
>NASTY 60 Hz buzz coming from either the guitar player's amp or the PA or
>all
>of the above.
>
> For Gein's set, the reverb seemed a little weak.
>
> When we got up and set up, I noticed my rig didn't have nearly the drip
>I'm used to at those settings on the amp and tank. We also noticed that all
>of us had to turn our gear up a lot more than usual to get the volume we
>expect at much lower settings. For what it's worth, the bass sounded
>"boingy" and not as "bassy" as it should sound.
>
> What would cause this type of stuff? Ungrounded circuits? Whole stage
>being run off one socket?
>
> We've played stages that you could TELL were built and wired properly,
>and our gear sounded great. This definitely isn't one of those stages. Is
>there any way to test the integrity of the power coming through or the
>ground quality? Thanks!
>
>
>
> -Dano
> -=The Nebulas=-
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
>on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always
playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free!
No problem, hope you can get something out of all that verbage!
-dave
-=Dan Ware=- <> wrote:
Thanks Dave! Jeez, I almost feel like I should be paying by the hour for
that much info. :)
-Dano
-=The Nebulas=-
>From: dave wronski <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] club power
>Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 06:18:34 -0800 (PST)
>
>Whenever you hear "buzz", or any type of noise coming out of your guitar
>amp, the frequencies of the "buzz" has replaced the sound of the guitar at
>the same frequencies. So, more "buzz", less guitar. When you control the
>noise, more "resolution" of the guitar sound is apparent.
>
>Single coil guitar pickups pass on the "magnet flux" that is in the air
>that is generated by neon signs, ice machines, etc., to the amplifier.
>
>I use the old MXR Noise Gate / Line Driver which shuts off the noise coming
>through the air into the pickups, but only works when you're not playing.
>
>I have the new MXR "Smart Gate" which you can put after the reverb / echo
>and control the time rate of the gate closer function so the reverb and
>echo trails can get through {be heard} before the gate shuts down the
>signal. I'm not sure yet how good this works.
>
>If you play a Jaguar or Jazzmaster, the middle position { two pickups on }
>will cancel the "buzz" coning into the pickups from the air.
>
>Here's tip for stopping "buzz" that coming from the reverb tank. The reverb
>tank also has single coil pickups inside, so if you hear noise, try moving
>the tank a 45 degree angle to cancel out the noise. Just like when you
>change the direction you face your guitar, the "buzz" level decreases.
>
>Here's another tip to make your reverb tank quieter. * But if you want to
>be safest, have a tech help you *
>
>I put metal shielding either on the outside { over the grill cloth, under
>the Fender logo or - if your restoring, or making a new box, put the foil
>shield under the grill cloth } or inside the box on the front board where
>the tank clamps down. If you put it inside, wrap plastic wrap around it to
>electrically isolate it so it won't short out on the springs. Also, if you
>put the foil on the inside you will have to work around the foam that holds
>the springs when the tank is clamped down.
>THEN, you must ground it to the chassis of the reverb unit, or it will act
>as an antenna and increase noise! I use the mounting screw for the chassis
>to ground the foil shield.
>For the front mounted shield, run a wire from a front board mounting screw
>to a chassis mounting screw to complete the ground. Use an Ohm meter to be
>sure you have made a good ground connection.
>
>I don't know about the re-issue reverb tanks, but the old ones did not have
>any shielding on the inside of the wooden back panel. I use aluminum foil{
>maybe 4 layers} , just like the job above, and don't forget to wrap plastic
>wrap around it to avoid contact with High Voltage. Again, make sure this
>rear mounted shield is grounded to the chassis.
>
>If you use the reverb built in a combo amp, take out the tank form the bag,
>take the cardboard panel off and wrap a piece of foil around the OUTSIDE,
>and bring it around so when you screw the tank back down it will hold the
>foil in place.
>
>
>
>For a consistent source of AC power I use a Furman AR-117. The new model is
>here...
>This is a great help when the power coming from the wall is lower {or
>higher} than 117. It will automatically adjust so you amp will run at it's
>best. That's good for the tubes, and good for the sound. I always have one
>of those AC line checkers { Radio Shack }stuck in one of the outlets to
>see if any of the club owners have done an improper { unsafe } wiring job
>on the stage outlets.
>
>hope this helps,
>
>-dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-=Dan Ware=- <> wrote:Hey all,
>
> Here's a technical question for all you electrical engineers out there,
>and Dave Wronski cause you'll probably have the answer.
>
> Last night The Nebulas played a show with Gein and The Graverobbers.
>There was a band who opened up for us, and during their set, there was a
>NASTY 60 Hz buzz coming from either the guitar player's amp or the PA or
>all
>of the above.
>
> For Gein's set, the reverb seemed a little weak.
>
> When we got up and set up, I noticed my rig didn't have nearly the drip
>I'm used to at those settings on the amp and tank. We also noticed that all
>of us had to turn our gear up a lot more than usual to get the volume we
>expect at much lower settings. For what it's worth, the bass sounded
>"boingy" and not as "bassy" as it should sound.
>
> What would cause this type of stuff? Ungrounded circuits? Whole stage
>being run off one socket?
>
> We've played stages that you could TELL were built and wired properly,
>and our gear sounded great. This definitely isn't one of those stages. Is
>there any way to test the integrity of the power coming through or the
>ground quality? Thanks!
>
>
>
> -Dano
> -=The Nebulas=-
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
>on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always
playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free!
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No problem, hope you can get something out of all that verbage!
-dave
-=Dan Ware=- <> wrote:
Thanks Dave! Jeez, I almost feel like I should be paying by the hour for
that much info. :)
-Dano
-=The Nebulas=-
>From: dave wronski <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] club power
>Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 06:18:34 -0800 (PST)
>
>Whenever you hear "buzz", or any type of noise coming out of your guitar
>amp, the frequencies of the "buzz" has replaced the sound of the guitar at
>the same frequencies. So, more "buzz", less guitar. When you control the
>noise, more "resolution" of the guitar sound is apparent.
>
>Single coil guitar pickups pass on the "magnet flux" that is in the air
>that is generated by neon signs, ice machines, etc., to the amplifier.
>
>I use the old MXR Noise Gate / Line Driver which shuts off the noise coming
>through the air into the pickups, but only works when you're not playing.
>
>I have the new MXR "Smart Gate" which you can put after the reverb / echo
>and control the time rate of the gate closer function so the reverb and
>echo trails can get through {be heard} before the gate shuts down the
>signal. I'm not sure yet how good this works.
>
>If you play a Jaguar or Jazzmaster, the middle position { two pickups on }
>will cancel the "buzz" coning into the pickups from the air.
>
>Here's tip for stopping "buzz" that coming from the reverb tank. The reverb
>tank also has single coil pickups inside, so if you hear noise, try moving
>the tank a 45 degree angle to cancel out the noise. Just like when you
>change the direction you face your guitar, the "buzz" level decreases.
>
>Here's another tip to make your reverb tank quieter. * But if you want to
>be safest, have a tech help you *
>
>I put metal shielding either on the outside { over the grill cloth, under
>the Fender logo or - if your restoring, or making a new box, put the foil
>shield under the grill cloth } or inside the box on the front board where
>the tank clamps down. If you put it inside, wrap plastic wrap around it to
>electrically isolate it so it won't short out on the springs. Also, if you
>put the foil on the inside you will have to work around the foam that holds
>the springs when the tank is clamped down.
>THEN, you must ground it to the chassis of the reverb unit, or it will act
>as an antenna and increase noise! I use the mounting screw for the chassis
>to ground the foil shield.
>For the front mounted shield, run a wire from a front board mounting screw
>to a chassis mounting screw to complete the ground. Use an Ohm meter to be
>sure you have made a good ground connection.
>
>I don't know about the re-issue reverb tanks, but the old ones did not have
>any shielding on the inside of the wooden back panel. I use aluminum foil{
>maybe 4 layers} , just like the job above, and don't forget to wrap plastic
>wrap around it to avoid contact with High Voltage. Again, make sure this
>rear mounted shield is grounded to the chassis.
>
>If you use the reverb built in a combo amp, take out the tank form the bag,
>take the cardboard panel off and wrap a piece of foil around the OUTSIDE,
>and bring it around so when you screw the tank back down it will hold the
>foil in place.
>
>
>
>For a consistent source of AC power I use a Furman AR-117. The new model is
>here...
>This is a great help when the power coming from the wall is lower {or
>higher} than 117. It will automatically adjust so you amp will run at it's
>best. That's good for the tubes, and good for the sound. I always have one
>of those AC line checkers { Radio Shack }stuck in one of the outlets to
>see if any of the club owners have done an improper { unsafe } wiring job
>on the stage outlets.
>
>hope this helps,
>
>-dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-=Dan Ware=- <> wrote:Hey all,
>
> Here's a technical question for all you electrical engineers out there,
>and Dave Wronski cause you'll probably have the answer.
>
> Last night The Nebulas played a show with Gein and The Graverobbers.
>There was a band who opened up for us, and during their set, there was a
>NASTY 60 Hz buzz coming from either the guitar player's amp or the PA or
>all
>of the above.
>
> For Gein's set, the reverb seemed a little weak.
>
> When we got up and set up, I noticed my rig didn't have nearly the drip
>I'm used to at those settings on the amp and tank. We also noticed that all
>of us had to turn our gear up a lot more than usual to get the volume we
>expect at much lower settings. For what it's worth, the bass sounded
>"boingy" and not as "bassy" as it should sound.
>
> What would cause this type of stuff? Ungrounded circuits? Whole stage
>being run off one socket?
>
> We've played stages that you could TELL were built and wired properly,
>and our gear sounded great. This definitely isn't one of those stages. Is
>there any way to test the integrity of the power coming through or the
>ground quality? Thanks!
>
>
>
> -Dano
> -=The Nebulas=-
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
>on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always
playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free!
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
