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ivan wrote:
"...Is it more important that new surf music 'evolve' or
that it just be good?..."
I think this topic is, at the core, really two topics:
1. is "trad" style surf worthy of preservation?
2. is the room within the definition of "surf" for more
progressive music approaches.
Of course, I would answer a whole-hearted "YES!" to both
topics...
Trad-style surf absolutely valuable, and worthy of the
finest efforts and dedication of those who attempt to
preserve this fine and noble trradition in electic music.
Additionally, I believe there is plenty of room for
progressive tunes and tones.
-dp
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hi ;check out traynor amps , i know back in the day they had a much better
reverb than fender , much cheaper too , not sure how the new ones are though
.john s.
John McCorvey <> wrote: Right on guys!!!! I'm with you
100% NOTHING else comes close to a real Fender outboard reverb unit. The
re-issues are GREAT for those on a limited budget. As a matter of fact,
performance wise, the reissue tank is probably the best of anything that Fender
has "reissued" amp wise with the possible exception of the tweed
bassman.....simple circuit.....hard to screw up. Get a second job, if that's
what it takes but when it comes to reverb, never compromise, you'll never
really be happy with anything else...............ed
bruce duncan <> wrote: The one item I insist on keeping in
my rig, which IS "Old-School" is my Fender Tube Reverb Unit. My opinions
regarding amp and speakers are one thing, but to my ear, no-one, and I mean
NO-ONE has been able to improve on the original Fender outboard reverb unit.
Further, I have never yet heard a solid-state or digital modelling reverb that
can come close to the real "wet" and "drippy" sound of muted lower strings
played through a real Tube Reverb unit. Fortunately, the 1960's Fender Reverb
Units are already very light-weight, so there's truly no alternative to them for
me.
Bruce D
Mel Waldorf <> wrote:
A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit. Ritchie Allen
got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the recording board.
That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I can. I
really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the VibroVerb bias
modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-ring cabinet is
a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels on the
speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much better on the
back than the comparible combo amp.
As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a speaker
cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you could make it
fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
Mel
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
Bruce D
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I believe there is plenty of room within our defination of "surf music" for
everyone to create and enjoy. I personally prefer the trad sound with really
warm guitar tones, some added echo, light to dripping reverb and a big round
bottom end on the lead guitar... I have been chasing this sound for 43 years
and at times when I get lucky and it all comes together, It reminds me why I
want to share this experience with others. Thanks guys for allowing me to be a
part of this great worldwide surf music family..........My vote is we alll just
play from the heart..........best reverbs, eddie katcher
DP <> wrote: ivan wrote:
"...Is it more important that new surf music 'evolve' or
that it just be good?..."
I think this topic is, at the core, really two topics:
1. is "trad" style surf worthy of preservation?
2. is the room within the definition of "surf" for more
progressive music approaches.
Of course, I would answer a whole-hearted "YES!" to both
topics...
Trad-style surf absolutely valuable, and worthy of the
finest efforts and dedication of those who attempt to
preserve this fine and noble trradition in electic music.
Additionally, I believe there is plenty of room for
progressive tunes and tones.
-dp
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Eddy,
There is one unit that is easily a match for the original,
and that's the Kendrik Model 1000. The only one I ever saw
came into the shop for just a re-tube, but I played it against
an original and two re-issues, and it was hands-down the best
of the four units I had access to at that one time. Of course,
for the price, they'd better be good! <g>
Here's the thing's website:
<>
(Watch those line breaks!)
unlunf
--- John McCorvey <eddiekatcher@...> wrote:
>
> Right on guys!!!! I'm with you 100% NOTHING else comes close
> to a real Fender outboard reverb unit. The re-issues are GREAT
> for those on a limited budget. As a matter of fact, performance
> wise, the reissue tank is probably the best of anything that
> Fender has "reissued" amp wise with the possible exception of the
> tweed bassman.....simple circuit.....hard to screw up. Get a
> second job, if that's what it takes but when it comes to reverb,
> never compromise, you'll never really be happy with anything
> else...............
>
> ed
>
Aw shucks Marty, now ya got me all imbarresed.
Hey I know you old foggies have a rough time with that stuff, and I
admit it is heavy. But I got a few good years in me lifting wise.
Plus there is another factor. I'm sure most people(regular joes)
down at Beach shows wouldn't know/care if you didn't have a real
piggyback head ontop of your cabnit. But if there is going to be a
good amount of hardcore surf fans there. You can bet if you had the
little Crate amp ontop. You'd be getting a good razzin' for sure.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@...>
wrote:
>
> If I'm playing a casual , it's true what ol' Bruce sez, I'm goin'
with an amp I can carry in one hand and the guitar in the other. The
Crate is a godsend. If I'm playing the HB Pier, there are usually
folks around who can help with the heavy lifting of the Fender tube
gear (I won't mention any names but their initials are Big Tiki
Dude).
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mel Waldorf
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
>
>
> A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit.
Ritchie Allen
> got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the recording
board.
>
> That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I
can. I
> really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the
VibroVerb bias
> modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-ring
cabinet is
> a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels on
the
> speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much
better on the
> back than the comparible combo amp.
>
> As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a
speaker
> cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you
could make it
> fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
>
> Mel
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bruce duncan" <wetreverb@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
>
>
> > As always, Ivan's 2-cents is right on the money!
> >
> > I'm a "trad-surf" guitarist, NOT in terms of gear as much as
the actual
> SOUND my band and I make. To me our Sound is everything. I've
been
> listening to instro/surf music since age 8 in 1960, my first
serious guitar
> was a '64 "L" series Jazzmaster, and my first amp was a 30-watt
1950's tube
> monster. I agree 100% with unlunf.
> >
> > Having toted 100+ lbs of rig to more rehearsals and gigs than
I care to
> count, I'm open-minded to gear innovations offering lighter
weight, and more
> ease of transport.
> >
> > I have good reason for feeling this way: I suffer chronic
Sciatica, in
> essence, a bad lower-back, and have been under steady
Chiropractic care for
> 7 years. My chiropractor told me in 1999, that my lower back
had been
> abused by decades of carrying too much weight around. Now, I'm
helping him
> fund his kids' college educations and his Lexus payments!
> >
> > Rob Woolsey, lead guitar of The Detonators, and Marty
Tippens, of The
> Planktones and The Boardwalkers, are both VERY trad-oriented
guitarists, in
> terms of their SOUND. Both of them carted around JBL-loaded
Super & Twin
> Reverbs, and Showmen for many years. But last year, with the
introduction
> of the Crate Power-Block 150, they each bought one, and both have
used them
> at gigs since then.
> >
> > Many who've heard Longboard Ranch, consider us one of the more
> trad-sounding of today's crop of surf bands. And that's no
accident! When
> I heard about Marty and Rob, I checked out the Power Block and
ended up
> buying one. 150 Watts RMS in a package about the size and weight
of a 5 Lb
> box of See's Chocolates, and one of the best sounding Solid State
amps I've
> EVER played, with a price tag of $200.00 and I was sold. Loading
a set of
> the new Jensen Neodymium ultra-light weight 12's in my old
Bandmaster Cab,
> my rig now weighs about 40 Lbs total, versus almost 120 Lbs
before.
> >
> > I've been using this rig at every gig we've played since July
2005. I
> always make a point of asking the "trad-fans" in the audience,
for ANY
> critical comment at all regarding our sound, and in particular,
my sound on
> lead guitar, and in the past seven months, (including our gig
this last
> Saturday, at the Pacific Shoreline Marathon Expo in Huntington
Beach), the
> only comments coming from this segment of the audience have been
super
> positive and complimentary.
> >
> > Other players have every right to their opinions and
preferences, and
> God love 'em for wanting to keep the true spirit and sound of
trad-surf
> alive.
> >
> > We simply didn't have these lower-weight alternatives in the
60's, 70's
> and 80's, so I'm paying the price in my middle-age. Believe me,
Sciatica
> AIN'T no picnic!!!!!
> >
> > Younger guitarists who would prefer to avoid following in my
footsteps
> health-wise (while still keeping their sound real!) might be
better served
> by viewing these new innovative amps and speakers with more of an
open mind.
> Who knows? You might be very pleasantly surprised! I know I was!
> >
> > Unlunf is 100% correct about Leo. Mr. Fender kept innovating
until the
> week he died. His improvements to the Strat and Tele, done at G
& L Music,
> cause many guitarists to prefer those models over the
original "vintage"
> Fender units.
> >
> > The new Jazzmaster amp sounds like another innovation in the
Leo Fender
> tradition. I still prefer the Crate Power Block 150 because it's
nearly
> $800 LESS at retail, and 150 Watts RMS is more power than I've
yet needed at
> ANY of our gigs.
> >
> > IMHO these newer amps and speakers deserve to be checked out
by more
> musicians, and shouldn't be automatically rejected for not being
> "old-school". They should be judged based on their performance.
Their
> lighter weight might save your back from agonizing pain and
thousands of
> dollars spent in treatment!
> >
> > Just MY humble 2-cents worth.
> >
> > Bruce D
> >
> > unlunf <unlunf@...> wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> > No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> > new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
> >
> > ~!~!~!~!~
> > Jacob,
> >
> > Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> > you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> > would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> > I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> > important here. What is important here is the underlying
> > train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> > way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
> >
> > Oh.
> >
> > Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> > Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> > in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> > He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> > vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> > local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> > Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> > the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> > Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> > the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> > between Fender and all the also-rans?
> >
> > For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> > road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> > But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> > 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> > By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> > same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> > who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
> > That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> > simple.
> >
> > No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> > had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> > But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> > incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> > At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> > of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> > times over the last 6 decades?
> >
> > I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> > it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> > inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> > about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> > the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> > aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> > past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> > know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> > and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> > for the future of surf music.
> >
> > Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> > material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> > upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> > Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> > ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> > sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> > to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> > new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> > generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
> >
> > Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> > to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
> >
> >
> > unlunf
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
<jacobdobner@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old
now.
> > > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before
my
> > > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> > > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> > > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> > > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> > > nap time.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> > > <supertwangreverb@
> > >>
> > >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> > >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts
will
> > >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around
when
> > >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> > >>
> > >> Bill
> > >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages,
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> >
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> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> > Bruce D
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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Right on about the Kendrick reverb unit.....I had the pleasure of trying one on
for size several years back at a local guitar show. I was impressed, but not
enough to fork over that much cash on something that would loose value with
time. For the cost, I could have had three reissues or 1.5 1965 units or one
really clean '62. That's the beauty of this mess.....with time, my collection
of Leo's hardware will send my grandchildren to college. I admire Gerald's
work and I find it's great to chat with him when need be. I wish I knew 10%
of what he has forgotten about tube equipment. But since I have had my nose
and soldering irons in Leo's creations for over 40 years, I'll stick with the
my collection of tubes that goes "splash" in the night......hopeless old fool
in Atlanta.........ed
unlunf <> wrote: Eddy,
There is one unit that is easily a match for the original,
and that's the Kendrik Model 1000. The only one I ever saw
came into the shop for just a re-tube, but I played it against
an original and two re-issues, and it was hands-down the best
of the four units I had access to at that one time. Of course,
for the price, they'd better be good! <g>
Here's the thing's website:
<>
(Watch those line breaks!)
unlunf
--- John McCorvey <eddiekatcher@...> wrote:
>
> Right on guys!!!! I'm with you 100% NOTHING else comes close
> to a real Fender outboard reverb unit. The re-issues are GREAT
> for those on a limited budget. As a matter of fact, performance
> wise, the reissue tank is probably the best of anything that
> Fender has "reissued" amp wise with the possible exception of the
> tweed bassman.....simple circuit.....hard to screw up. Get a
> second job, if that's what it takes but when it comes to reverb,
> never compromise, you'll never really be happy with anything
> else...............
>
> ed
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For resale value, the Fender Reverb is the best bet. Another unit that
sounds interesting is the Victoria Reverberato - a Reverb and a Harmonic
tremolo built into one. I've never seen one, and the price is dear
($1500!!) but maybe someday I'll just happen on one at a yard sale?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McCorvey" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
> Right on about the Kendrick reverb unit.....I had the pleasure of trying
one on for size several years back at a local guitar show. I was impressed,
but not enough to fork over that much cash on something that would loose
value with time. For the cost, I could have had three reissues or 1.5 1965
units or one really clean '62. That's the beauty of this mess.....with
time, my collection of Leo's hardware will send my grandchildren to
college. I admire Gerald's work and I find it's great to chat with him
when need be. I wish I knew 10% of what he has forgotten about tube
equipment. But since I have had my nose and soldering irons in Leo's
creations for over 40 years, I'll stick with the my collection of tubes
that goes "splash" in the night......hopeless old fool in
Atlanta.........ed
>
> unlunf <> wrote: Eddy,
>
> There is one unit that is easily a match for the original,
> and that's the Kendrik Model 1000. The only one I ever saw
> came into the shop for just a re-tube, but I played it against
> an original and two re-issues, and it was hands-down the best
> of the four units I had access to at that one time. Of course,
> for the price, they'd better be good! <g>
>
> Here's the thing's website:
>
<
e=KOS&Product_Code=KEN0103-REVB1000>
>
> (Watch those line breaks!)
>
>
> unlunf
>
>
> --- John McCorvey <eddiekatcher@...> wrote:
> >
> > Right on guys!!!! I'm with you 100% NOTHING else comes close
> > to a real Fender outboard reverb unit. The re-issues are GREAT
> > for those on a limited budget. As a matter of fact, performance
> > wise, the reissue tank is probably the best of anything that
> > Fender has "reissued" amp wise with the possible exception of the
> > tweed bassman.....simple circuit.....hard to screw up. Get a
> > second job, if that's what it takes but when it comes to reverb,
> > never compromise, you'll never really be happy with anything
> > else...............
> >
> > ed
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Guitar music
theory Stringed instruments
Guitar music book
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sheets Guitar technique
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
> Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
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> Visit for archived messages,
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
>
>
>
>
Jono Jones from Pollo del Mar plays through a Kendrick
Reverb unit and sounds like a million bucks!
--- In , John McCorvey
<eddiekatcher@...> wrote:
>
> Right on about the Kendrick reverb unit.....I had the pleasure of
trying one on for size several years back at a local guitar show. I
was impressed, but not enough to fork over that much cash on
something that would loose value with time. For the cost, I could
have had three reissues or 1.5 1965 units or one really clean '62.
That's the beauty of this mess.....with time, my collection of
Leo's hardware will send my grandchildren to college. I admire
Gerald's work and I find it's great to chat with him when need be.
I wish I knew 10% of what he has forgotten about tube equipment.
But since I have had my nose and soldering irons in Leo's creations
for over 40 years, I'll stick with the my collection of tubes that
goes "splash" in the night......hopeless old fool in
Atlanta.........ed
>
> unlunf <unlunf@...> wrote: Eddy,
>
> There is one unit that is easily a match for the original,
> and that's the Kendrik Model 1000. The only one I ever saw
> came into the shop for just a re-tube, but I played it against
> an original and two re-issues, and it was hands-down the best
> of the four units I had access to at that one time. Of course,
> for the price, they'd better be good! <g>
>
> Here's the thing's website:
> <
Screen=PROD&Store_Code=KOS&Product_Code=KEN0103-REVB1000>
>
> (Watch those line breaks!)
>
>
> unlunf
>
>
> --- John McCorvey <eddiekatcher@> wrote:
> >
> > Right on guys!!!! I'm with you 100% NOTHING else comes close
> > to a real Fender outboard reverb unit. The re-issues are GREAT
> > for those on a limited budget. As a matter of fact,
performance
> > wise, the reissue tank is probably the best of anything that
> > Fender has "reissued" amp wise with the possible exception of
the
> > tweed bassman.....simple circuit.....hard to screw up. Get a
> > second job, if that's what it takes but when it comes to
reverb,
> > never compromise, you'll never really be happy with anything
> > else...............
> >
> > ed
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jeff <> wrote: You can bet if you had the
little Crate amp ontop. You'd be getting a good razzin' for sure.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
Yeah, but just remember, in Surf-Music, it's all about the SOUND. For
several months now, at our gigs, I have asked the "purist" surf-music fans at
our gigs, for ANY and all criticism regarding my sound using the Crate Power
Block. The ONLY feedback given by several dozen people, at several different
shows, has been POSITIVE. And one of those giving the "thumbs-up" to my sound,
is a dude who makes money crafting and selling vintage-style Tube Amps!
Within Longboard Ranch, the guys were blown away at how "trad" I'm able to
sound with the Crate, and Loyd Davis, who should need NO introduction in this
group, is teetering on the edge of buying one for himself, but I suspect he's
secretly afraid of being razzed, or he'd already have done so!
In my case, if I bring one of my old monster Fender amp heads to a gig, it's
more for nostalgia's sake than because it makes any material difference in my
sound.
Bruce D
--- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@...>
wrote:
>
> If I'm playing a casual , it's true what ol' Bruce sez, I'm goin'
with an amp I can carry in one hand and the guitar in the other. The
Crate is a godsend. If I'm playing the HB Pier, there are usually
folks around who can help with the heavy lifting of the Fender tube
gear (I won't mention any names but their initials are Big Tiki
Dude).
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mel Waldorf
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
>
>
> A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit.
Ritchie Allen
> got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the recording
board.
>
> That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I
can. I
> really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the
VibroVerb bias
> modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-ring
cabinet is
> a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels on
the
> speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much
better on the
> back than the comparible combo amp.
>
> As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a
speaker
> cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you
could make it
> fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
>
> Mel
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bruce duncan" <wetreverb@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
>
>
> > As always, Ivan's 2-cents is right on the money!
> >
> > I'm a "trad-surf" guitarist, NOT in terms of gear as much as
the actual
> SOUND my band and I make. To me our Sound is everything. I've
been
> listening to instro/surf music since age 8 in 1960, my first
serious guitar
> was a '64 "L" series Jazzmaster, and my first amp was a 30-watt
1950's tube
> monster. I agree 100% with unlunf.
> >
> > Having toted 100+ lbs of rig to more rehearsals and gigs than
I care to
> count, I'm open-minded to gear innovations offering lighter
weight, and more
> ease of transport.
> >
> > I have good reason for feeling this way: I suffer chronic
Sciatica, in
> essence, a bad lower-back, and have been under steady
Chiropractic care for
> 7 years. My chiropractor told me in 1999, that my lower back
had been
> abused by decades of carrying too much weight around. Now, I'm
helping him
> fund his kids' college educations and his Lexus payments!
> >
> > Rob Woolsey, lead guitar of The Detonators, and Marty
Tippens, of The
> Planktones and The Boardwalkers, are both VERY trad-oriented
guitarists, in
> terms of their SOUND. Both of them carted around JBL-loaded
Super & Twin
> Reverbs, and Showmen for many years. But last year, with the
introduction
> of the Crate Power-Block 150, they each bought one, and both have
used them
> at gigs since then.
> >
> > Many who've heard Longboard Ranch, consider us one of the more
> trad-sounding of today's crop of surf bands. And that's no
accident! When
> I heard about Marty and Rob, I checked out the Power Block and
ended up
> buying one. 150 Watts RMS in a package about the size and weight
of a 5 Lb
> box of See's Chocolates, and one of the best sounding Solid State
amps I've
> EVER played, with a price tag of $200.00 and I was sold. Loading
a set of
> the new Jensen Neodymium ultra-light weight 12's in my old
Bandmaster Cab,
> my rig now weighs about 40 Lbs total, versus almost 120 Lbs
before.
> >
> > I've been using this rig at every gig we've played since July
2005. I
> always make a point of asking the "trad-fans" in the audience,
for ANY
> critical comment at all regarding our sound, and in particular,
my sound on
> lead guitar, and in the past seven months, (including our gig
this last
> Saturday, at the Pacific Shoreline Marathon Expo in Huntington
Beach), the
> only comments coming from this segment of the audience have been
super
> positive and complimentary.
> >
> > Other players have every right to their opinions and
preferences, and
> God love 'em for wanting to keep the true spirit and sound of
trad-surf
> alive.
> >
> > We simply didn't have these lower-weight alternatives in the
60's, 70's
> and 80's, so I'm paying the price in my middle-age. Believe me,
Sciatica
> AIN'T no picnic!!!!!
> >
> > Younger guitarists who would prefer to avoid following in my
footsteps
> health-wise (while still keeping their sound real!) might be
better served
> by viewing these new innovative amps and speakers with more of an
open mind.
> Who knows? You might be very pleasantly surprised! I know I was!
> >
> > Unlunf is 100% correct about Leo. Mr. Fender kept innovating
until the
> week he died. His improvements to the Strat and Tele, done at G
& L Music,
> cause many guitarists to prefer those models over the
original "vintage"
> Fender units.
> >
> > The new Jazzmaster amp sounds like another innovation in the
Leo Fender
> tradition. I still prefer the Crate Power Block 150 because it's
nearly
> $800 LESS at retail, and 150 Watts RMS is more power than I've
yet needed at
> ANY of our gigs.
> >
> > IMHO these newer amps and speakers deserve to be checked out
by more
> musicians, and shouldn't be automatically rejected for not being
> "old-school". They should be judged based on their performance.
Their
> lighter weight might save your back from agonizing pain and
thousands of
> dollars spent in treatment!
> >
> > Just MY humble 2-cents worth.
> >
> > Bruce D
> >
> > unlunf <unlunf@...> wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> > No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> > new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
> >
> > ~!~!~!~!~
> > Jacob,
> >
> > Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> > you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> > would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> > I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> > important here. What is important here is the underlying
> > train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> > way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
> >
> > Oh.
> >
> > Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> > Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> > in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> > He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> > vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> > local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> > Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> > the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> > Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> > the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> > between Fender and all the also-rans?
> >
> > For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> > road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> > But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> > 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> > By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> > same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> > who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
> > That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> > simple.
> >
> > No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> > had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> > But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> > incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> > At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> > of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> > times over the last 6 decades?
> >
> > I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> > it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> > inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> > about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> > the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> > aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> > past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> > know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> > and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> > for the future of surf music.
> >
> > Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> > material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> > upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> > Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> > ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> > sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> > to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> > new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> > generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
> >
> > Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> > to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
> >
> >
> > unlunf
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
<jacobdobner@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old
now.
> > > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before
my
> > > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> > > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> > > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> > > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> > > nap time.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> > > <supertwangreverb@
> > >>
> > >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> > >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts
will
> > >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around
when
> > >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> > >>
> > >> Bill
> > >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages,
> bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> > Bruce D
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
> > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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--- In , "Mel Waldorf" <mwaldorf@...> wrote:
>
> Another unit that
> sounds interesting is the Victoria Reverberato - a Reverb and a Harmonic
> tremolo built into one. I've never seen one, and the price is dear
> ($1500!!) but maybe someday I'll just happen on one at a yard sale?
I saw one of these at a boutique style guitar shop and almost had a
heart attack when I saw the price tag.
BN
Bruce, this may be a bit extreme, but it could be funny if someone
compliments you on your vintage sound. Build an empty showman style
head cabinet, get a aftermarket replacement face plate, throw in some
knobs and leave the back open. Then , place the crate amp gingerly into
the back of the cabinet...eh?... eh?
Danny Snyder
On Feb 9, 2006, at 7:43 PM, bruce duncan wrote:
>
>
> Jeff <> wrote:Â Â Â Â Â You can bet if you had the
> little Crate amp ontop. You'd be getting a good razzin' for sure.
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
> Â Â Â Yeah, but just remember, in Surf-Music, it's all about the
> SOUND. For several months now, at our gigs, I have asked the "purist"
> surf-music fans at our gigs, for ANY and all criticism regarding my
> sound using the Crate Power Block. The ONLY feedback given by several
> dozen people, at several different shows, has been POSITIVE. And one
> of those giving the "thumbs-up" to my sound, is a dude who makes money
> crafting and selling vintage-style Tube Amps!
> Â Â
> Â Within Longboard Ranch, the guys were blown away at how "trad" I'm
> able to sound with the Crate, and Loyd Davis, who should need NO
> introduction in this group, is teetering on the edge of buying one for
> himself, but I suspect he's secretly afraid of being razzed, or he'd
> already have done so!
> Â Â
> Â In my case, if I bring one of my old monster Fender amp heads to a
> gig, it's more for nostalgia's sake than because it makes any material
> difference in my sound.
> Â Â
> Â Bruce D
> Â
>
>
>
> --- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > If I'm playing a casual , it's true what ol' Bruce sez, I'm goin'
> with an amp I can carry in one hand and the guitar in the other. The
> Crate is a godsend. If I'm playing the HB Pier, there are usually
> folks around who can help with the heavy lifting of the Fender tube
> gear (I won't mention any names but their initials are Big Tiki
> Dude).
> > -Marty
> >Â Â ----- Original Message -----
> >Â Â From: Mel Waldorf
> >Â Â To:
> >Â Â Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:02 PM
> >Â Â Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
> >
> >
> >Â Â A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit.Â
> Ritchie Allen
> >Â Â got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the recording
> board.
> >
> >Â Â That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I
> can. I
> >Â Â really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the
> VibroVerb bias
> >  modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-ring
> cabinet is
> >  a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels on
> the
> >Â Â speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much
> better on the
> >Â Â back than the comparible combo amp.
> >
> >Â Â As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a
> speaker
> >  cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you
> could make it
> >Â Â fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
> >
> >Â Â Mel
> >
> >
> >Â Â ----- Original Message -----
> >Â Â From: "bruce duncan" <wetreverb@...>
> >Â Â To: <>
> >Â Â Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:54 PM
> >Â Â Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
> >
> >
> >Â Â > As always, Ivan's 2-cents is right on the money!
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â I'm a "trad-surf" guitarist, NOT in terms of gear as much as
> the actual
> >  SOUND my band and I make. To me our Sound is everything. I've
> been
> >Â Â listening to instro/surf music since age 8 in 1960, my first
> serious guitar
> >Â Â was a '64 "L" series Jazzmaster, and my first amp was a 30-watt
> 1950's tube
> >  monster. I agree 100% with unlunf.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â Having toted 100+ lbs of rig to more rehearsals and gigs than
> I care to
> >Â Â count, I'm open-minded to gear innovations offering lighter
> weight, and more
> >Â Â ease of transport.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â I have good reason for feeling this way:Â I suffer chronic
> Sciatica, in
> >Â Â essence, a bad lower-back, and have been under steady
> Chiropractic care for
> >  7 years.  My chiropractor told me in 1999, that my lower back
> had been
> >  abused by decades of carrying too much weight around. Now, I'm
> helping him
> >Â Â fund his kids' college educations and his Lexus payments!
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â Rob Woolsey, lead guitar of The Detonators, and Marty
> Tippens, of The
> >Â Â Planktones and The Boardwalkers, are both VERY trad-oriented
> guitarists, in
> >  terms of their SOUND. Both of them carted around JBL-loaded
> Super & Twin
> >  Reverbs, and Showmen for many years. But last year, with the
> introduction
> >Â Â of the Crate Power-Block 150, they each bought one, and both have
> used them
> >Â Â at gigs since then.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â Many who've heard Longboard Ranch, consider us one of the more
> >  trad-sounding of today's crop of surf bands. And that's no
> accident!  When
> >Â Â I heard about Marty and Rob, I checked out the Power Block and
> ended up
> >  buying one. 150 Watts RMS in a package about the size and weight
> of a 5 Lb
> >Â Â box of See's Chocolates, and one of the best sounding Solid State
> amps I've
> >  EVER played, with a price tag of $200.00 and I was sold. Loading
> a set of
> >Â Â the new Jensen Neodymium ultra-light weight 12's in my old
> Bandmaster Cab,
> >Â Â my rig now weighs about 40 Lbs total, versus almost 120 Lbs
> before.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â I've been using this rig at every gig we've played since July
> 2005. I
> >Â Â always make a point of asking the "trad-fans" in the audience,
> for ANY
> >Â Â critical comment at all regarding our sound, and in particular,
> my sound on
> >Â Â lead guitar, and in the past seven months, (including our gig
> this last
> >Â Â Saturday, at the Pacific Shoreline Marathon Expo in Huntington
> Beach), the
> >Â Â only comments coming from this segment of the audience have been
> super
> >Â Â positive and complimentary.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â Other players have every right to their opinions and
> preferences, and
> >Â Â God love 'em for wanting to keep the true spirit and sound of
> trad-surf
> >Â Â alive.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â We simply didn't have these lower-weight alternatives in the
> 60's, 70's
> >  and 80's, so I'm paying the price in my middle-age. Believe me,
> Sciatica
> >Â Â AIN'T no picnic!!!!!
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â Younger guitarists who would prefer to avoid following in my
> footsteps
> >Â Â health-wise (while still keeping their sound real!) might be
> better served
> >Â Â by viewing these new innovative amps and speakers with more of an
> open mind.
> >  Who knows? You might be very pleasantly surprised! I know I was!
> >Â Â >
> >  >  Unlunf is 100% correct about Leo. Mr. Fender kept innovating
> until the
> >  week he died. His improvements to the Strat and Tele, done at G
> & L Music,
> >Â Â cause many guitarists to prefer those models over the
> original "vintage"
> >Â Â Fender units.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â The new Jazzmaster amp sounds like another innovation in the
> Leo Fender
> >  tradition. I still prefer the Crate Power Block 150 because it's
> nearly
> >Â Â $800 LESS at retail, and 150 Watts RMS is more power than I've
> yet needed at
> >Â Â ANY of our gigs.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â IMHO these newer amps and speakers deserve to be checked out
> by more
> >Â Â musicians, and shouldn't be automatically rejected for not being
> >  "old-school". They should be judged based on their performance.Â
> Their
> >Â Â lighter weight might save your back from agonizing pain and
> thousands of
> >Â Â dollars spent in treatment!
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â Just MY humble 2-cents worth.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >Â Â Bruce D
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > unlunf <unlunf@...> wrote:
> >Â Â >Â Â Bill,
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> >Â Â > No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> >  > new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > ~!~!~!~!~
> >Â Â > Jacob,
> >Â Â >
> >  > Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> >Â Â > you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> >  > would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> >Â Â > I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> >  > important here. What is important here is the underlying
> >Â Â > train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> >Â Â > way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > Oh.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> >Â Â > Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> >Â Â > in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> >Â Â > He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> >  > vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> >Â Â > local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> >  > Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> >Â Â > the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> >Â Â > Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> >  > the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> >Â Â > between Fender and all the also-rans?
> >Â Â >
> >  > For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> >Â Â > road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> >Â Â > But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> >  > 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> >Â Â > By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> >Â Â > same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> >Â Â > who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
> >Â Â > That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> >Â Â > simple.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> >Â Â > had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> >Â Â > But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> >Â Â > incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> >Â Â > At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> >Â Â > of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> >Â Â > times over the last 6 decades?
> >Â Â >
> >  > I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> >Â Â > it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> >Â Â > inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> >Â Â > about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> >Â Â > the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> >Â Â > aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> >  > past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> >  > know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> >Â Â > and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> >Â Â > for the future of surf music.
> >Â Â >
> >  > Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> >Â Â > material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> >  > upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> >Â Â > Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> >Â Â > ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> >  > sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> >  > to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> >Â Â > new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> >Â Â > generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> >  > to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > unlunf
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
> <jacobdobner@>
> >Â Â wrote:
> >Â Â > >
> >Â Â > > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old
> now.
> >  > > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before
> my
> >Â Â > > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> >Â Â > > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> >Â Â > > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> >Â Â > > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> >Â Â > > nap time.
> >Â Â > >
> >Â Â > >
> >Â Â > > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> >Â Â > > <supertwangreverb@
> >Â Â > >>
> >Â Â > >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> >Â Â > >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts
> will
> >Â Â > >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around
> when
> >  > >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> >Â Â > >>
> >Â Â > >> Bill
> >Â Â > >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> >Â Â > >>
> >Â Â > >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > .
> >Â Â > Visit for archived
> messages,
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> >Â Â >Â Â SPONSORED LINKS
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> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> >Â Â > Bruce D
> >Â Â >
> >Â Â > ---------------------------------
> >Â Â > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
> >  > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
> >Â Â >
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> >Â Â > Visit for archived
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> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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> "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> Bruce D
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
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> Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more
> on new and used cars.
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>
--- In , snydr@... wrote:
>
> Bruce, this may be a bit extreme, but it could be funny if someone
> compliments you on your vintage sound. Build an empty showman style
> head cabinet, get a aftermarket replacement face plate, throw in some
> knobs and leave the back open. Then , place the crate amp gingerly
into
> the back of the cabinet...eh?... eh?
>
just hide it behind the reverb tank, it's small enough. as long as it
is invisable it's a good little amp.
it btw also has a ridiculously bright laserbeam like pilot light which
needs to be taped away.
WR
Hey Danny,
Your idea is not extreme at all. In fact, I think Loyd Davis even suggested
something like this to me last summer, the first time I used the Crate Power
Block at a gig at the L.A. Zoo. I had just bought the Crate a couple days
before the gig, and I brought my Showman head, fully intending to use it at the
gig.
I also brought the Crate head along, as backup. Loyd had never seen or heard
of this new lightweight, compact amp, and was totally consumed with curiosity,
so all through our first (of four) set, he was bugging me to plug in the Crate.
I played sets 2, 3 and 4, using the Crate, and Loyd kept telling me he
couldn't hear any difference in my sound and tone versus Set 1 when I was using
the Showman. I think it was that same gig when Loyd half-jokingly suggested
putting the Crate head inside an empty Fender head cabinet. He said the only
way anyone in the audience would be able to tell would be the absence of a
glowing "Power-On" light on the Fender's front panel! Of course, we could deal
with that also, and I've kept the idea in my mind since then, thinking it might
be the most effective way to prevent "razzing" from those who think they know
more about sound and tone, than I do.
I agree with you; It would be very funny!
Bruce D wrote:
Bruce, this may be a bit extreme, but it could be funny if someone
compliments you on your vintage sound. Build an empty showman style
head cabinet, get a aftermarket replacement face plate, throw in some
knobs and leave the back open. Then , place the crate amp gingerly into
the back of the cabinet...eh?... eh?
Danny Snyder
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
Bruce D
---------------------------------
What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce,
What Danny suggested is OK, but what would *really* be funny
is to bet the 'sound hounds' $10 bucks that they can't tell
you what kind of amp head you're using. When they chatter
"Hey, it's obvious, that's a Fender Showman", don't turn it
around just yet..... First, ask them if they wanna see what
kind of power tubes you're running. Now turn it around!
Count the red faces as it dawns on them that they've been had,
and stuff your wallet with your winnings! Then buy them all
a beer, and place the blame on us for telling you to do it!
unlunf
--- In , bruce duncan wrote:
>
>--- In , Danny Snyder wrote:
>>
>> Bruce, this may be a bit extreme, but it could be funny if
>> someone compliments you on your vintage sound. Build an empty
>> showman style head cabinet, get a aftermarket replacement face
>> plate, throw in some knobs and leave the back open. Then, place
>> the crate amp gingerly into the back of the cabinet...eh?
>
> Hey Danny,
>
> Your idea is not extreme at all. In fact, I think Loyd Davis
> even suggested something like this to me last summer, the first
> time I used the Crate Power Block at a gig at the L.A. Zoo.
>
> .....
>
Too funny and extremely tempting!
Bruce D
unlunf <> wrote:
Bruce,
What Danny suggested is OK, but what would *really* be funny
is to bet the 'sound hounds' $10 bucks that they can't tell
you what kind of amp head you're using. When they chatter
"Hey, it's obvious, that's a Fender Showman", don't turn it
around just yet..... First, ask them if they wanna see what
kind of power tubes you're running. Now turn it around!
Count the red faces as it dawns on them that they've been had,
and stuff your wallet with your winnings! Then buy them all
a beer, and place the blame on us for telling you to do it!
unlunf
--- In , bruce duncan wrote:
>
>--- In , Danny Snyder wrote:
>>
>> Bruce, this may be a bit extreme, but it could be funny if
>> someone compliments you on your vintage sound. Build an empty
>> showman style head cabinet, get a aftermarket replacement face
>> plate, throw in some knobs and leave the back open. Then, place
>> the crate amp gingerly into the back of the cabinet...eh?
>
> Hey Danny,
>
> Your idea is not extreme at all. In fact, I think Loyd Davis
> even suggested something like this to me last summer, the first
> time I used the Crate Power Block at a gig at the L.A. Zoo.
>
> .....
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
Bruce D
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll do the A/B testing around here! The method below is flawed. Once you tell
the listener to guess what kinda rig you're using, then the listener is gonna be
suspicious. What needs to happen is to plug both a Showman and a Crate (or
somesuch head) into the same cabinet, A/B switchable, and such that the listener
can't see either head. Y'all know the rest.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: unlunf
To:
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] re: New Fender Jazzmaster
Bruce,
What Danny suggested is OK, but what would *really* be funny
is to bet the 'sound hounds' $10 bucks that they can't tell
you what kind of amp head you're using. When they chatter
"Hey, it's obvious, that's a Fender Showman", don't turn it
around just yet..... First, ask them if they wanna see what
kind of power tubes you're running. Now turn it around!
Count the red faces as it dawns on them that they've been had,
and stuff your wallet with your winnings! Then buy them all
a beer, and place the blame on us for telling you to do it!
unlunf
--- In , bruce duncan wrote:
>
>--- In , Danny Snyder wrote:
>>
>> Bruce, this may be a bit extreme, but it could be funny if
>> someone compliments you on your vintage sound. Build an empty
>> showman style head cabinet, get a aftermarket replacement face
>> plate, throw in some knobs and leave the back open. Then, place
>> the crate amp gingerly into the back of the cabinet...eh?
>
> Hey Danny,
>
> Your idea is not extreme at all. In fact, I think Loyd Davis
> even suggested something like this to me last summer, the first
> time I used the Crate Power Block at a gig at the L.A. Zoo.
>
> .....
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
SPONSORED LINKS Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar music book
Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________ NOD32 1.1403 (20060210) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marty,
Hey guy, when it comes to betting money, there's no room
for the scientific method! <g> But I'm sure you knew
that we're just going for the grins here, and we're not
really out to make monkeys out of genuinely interested
aficionados, right?
Besides, if you hide both of the amp heads, leaving just
the cab visible, then the suspicion-o-meter will really
start ringing, won't it? You gotta show the mark something. <g>
unlunf
p.s. Merely an afterthought..... purely in the interests
of correct testing procedures, you understand. <g>
Explain you want their help in choosing a head - show 'em
both heads, but not the A/B switch. Switch it back and
forth at will, and let them guess which head is currently
on duty. Pay attention to those in other parts of the
room, and not just those right in front of the stage.
Who knows, it might be enlightening.
Sicko's will pretend to flick the switch, but continue
to use just one amp head for the whole gig. You can spot
them, they're the ones with track shoes on (ready to run),
or else they have lots of big beefy friends standing by. <g>
u.
--- In , "Marty Tippens" wrote:
>
> I'll do the A/B testing around here! The method below is flawed.
> Once you tell the listener to guess what kinda rig you're using,
> then the listener is gonna be suspicious. What needs to happen is
> to plug both a Showman and a Crate (or somesuch head) into the
> same cabinet, A/B switchable, and such that the listener can't
> see either head. Y'all know the rest.
>
> -Marty
>
>--- In , "unlunf" wrote:
>> Bruce,
>>
>> What Danny suggested is OK, but what would *really* be funny
>> is to bet the 'sound hounds' $10 bucks that they can't tell
>> you what kind of amp head you're using. When they chatter
>> "Hey, it's obvious, that's a Fender Showman", don't turn it
>> around just yet..... First, ask them if they wanna see what
>> kind of power tubes you're running. Now turn it around!
>>
>> Count the red faces as it dawns on them that they've been had,
>> and stuff your wallet with your winnings! Then buy them all
>> a beer, and place the blame on us for telling you to do it!
>>
>> unlunf
>
I think the approach would best be, to bring one legitimate Showman head, and a
"dummy", rigged up so the power light appears to be on, but this one would have
the Power block sitting inside.
Doing the A/B thing with both heads appearing to be powered-up, and going
through just the one speaker cab, it would be impossible for anyone in the
audience to guess which cab was which, so you'd have to call out "Amp A" when
playing on one, and "Amp B" when playing on the other, so in effect, the
audience is voting for which rig sounds better, without knowing for sure which
one has the tubes. That would be pretty scientific, and I think would be a
really fair test of the difference or similarity of the two amps.
Bruce D
unlunf <> wrote:
Marty,
Hey guy, when it comes to betting money, there's no room
for the scientific method! <g> But I'm sure you knew
that we're just going for the grins here, and we're not
really out to make monkeys out of genuinely interested
aficionados, right?
Besides, if you hide both of the amp heads, leaving just
the cab visible, then the suspicion-o-meter will really
start ringing, won't it? You gotta show the mark something. <g>
unlunf
p.s. Merely an afterthought..... purely in the interests
of correct testing procedures, you understand. <g>
Explain you want their help in choosing a head - show 'em
both heads, but not the A/B switch. Switch it back and
forth at will, and let them guess which head is currently
on duty. Pay attention to those in other parts of the
room, and not just those right in front of the stage.
Who knows, it might be enlightening.
Sicko's will pretend to flick the switch, but continue
to use just one amp head for the whole gig. You can spot
them, they're the ones with track shoes on (ready to run),
or else they have lots of big beefy friends standing by. <g>
u.
--- In , "Marty Tippens" wrote:
>
> I'll do the A/B testing around here! The method below is flawed.
> Once you tell the listener to guess what kinda rig you're using,
> then the listener is gonna be suspicious. What needs to happen is
> to plug both a Showman and a Crate (or somesuch head) into the
> same cabinet, A/B switchable, and such that the listener can't
> see either head. Y'all know the rest.
>
> -Marty
>
>--- In , "unlunf" wrote:
>> Bruce,
>>
>> What Danny suggested is OK, but what would *really* be funny
>> is to bet the 'sound hounds' $10 bucks that they can't tell
>> you what kind of amp head you're using. When they chatter
>> "Hey, it's obvious, that's a Fender Showman", don't turn it
>> around just yet..... First, ask them if they wanna see what
>> kind of power tubes you're running. Now turn it around!
>>
>> Count the red faces as it dawns on them that they've been had,
>> and stuff your wallet with your winnings! Then buy them all
>> a beer, and place the blame on us for telling you to do it!
>>
>> unlunf
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
Bruce D
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce,
Yes, your method would work. But consider this before
you go much further. Not only do you need to light up
a power lamp, but you also need a complete front panel
assembly that looks operable. Plus, the input jack will
have to be wired back to the Power Block, or the Fishy
Meter will go "Ding-Ding-Ding"! And how do you adjust
any controls, if they're supposed to be right out front?
This turns into a lot of work, particularly if you're
just doing it for a test or two, or just for grins and
giggles. Be my guest, but I wouldn't go that far.
However, what I *would* do, is procure another Showman
head, intact of course, and do this: run a small diameter
shielded wire from the input jack out of the back of the
amp, over the lip of the chassis, and down to the Crate.
Don't tighten the screws all the way down, of course,
just snug them up so the chassis doesn't wiggle. Turn
the head on, and leave it on standby.
Now, instead of using an A/B switch, manually move the
input cable from head to head, and ditto for the speaker
cable. This gives you the excuse that you need in order
to make any adjustments to the Crate - you just do it
while you're leaning over in back to change the speaker
cable, and no one will be the wiser. This also has the
added bonus of removing any possible accusation of not
flicking the switch when you said you did. <g>
Try that, and see what happens.
unlunf
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@...> wrote:
>
> I think the approach would best be, to bring one legitimate
> Showman head, and a "dummy", rigged up so the power light
> appears to be on, but this one would have the Power block
> sitting inside.
>
> Doing the A/B thing with both heads appearing to be powered-up,
> and going through just the one speaker cab, it would be impossible
> for anyone in the audience to guess which cab was which, so you'd
> have to call out "Amp A" when playing on one, and "Amp B" when
> playing on the other, so in effect, the audience is voting for
> which rig sounds better, without knowing for sure which one has
> the tubes. That would be pretty scientific, and I think would be
> a really fair test of the difference or similarity of the two amps.
>
> Bruce D
>
I'm not following this, unlunf. The scientific method (in the form of
probability) is a major asset in betting money. One can not make a monkey out of
the genuinely interested. One can only make a monkey out those who are
disgenuously interested.
Concerning the A/B test, it doesn't matter if there is suspicion in a case where
both heads are being used because the test is no longer presented as "Guess what
kind of amp you're listening to". Instead, the test is presented as, "Some of
these sounds are from a Crate and some are from a Fender tube amp.Can you tell
the difference?" And yes, there should be fake switching among the true
switching.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: unlunf
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 12:14 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
Marty,
Hey guy, when it comes to betting money, there's no room
for the scientific method! <g> But I'm sure you knew
that we're just going for the grins here, and we're not
really out to make monkeys out of genuinely interested
aficionados, right?
Besides, if you hide both of the amp heads, leaving just
the cab visible, then the suspicion-o-meter will really
start ringing, won't it? You gotta show the mark something. <g>
unlunf
p.s. Merely an afterthought..... purely in the interests
of correct testing procedures, you understand. <g>
Explain you want their help in choosing a head - show 'em
both heads, but not the A/B switch. Switch it back and
forth at will, and let them guess which head is currently
on duty. Pay attention to those in other parts of the
room, and not just those right in front of the stage.
Who knows, it might be enlightening.
Sicko's will pretend to flick the switch, but continue
to use just one amp head for the whole gig. You can spot
them, they're the ones with track shoes on (ready to run),
or else they have lots of big beefy friends standing by. <g>
u.
--- In , "Marty Tippens" wrote:
>
> I'll do the A/B testing around here! The method below is flawed.
> Once you tell the listener to guess what kinda rig you're using,
> then the listener is gonna be suspicious. What needs to happen is
> to plug both a Showman and a Crate (or somesuch head) into the
> same cabinet, A/B switchable, and such that the listener can't
> see either head. Y'all know the rest.
>
> -Marty
>
>--- In , "unlunf" wrote:
>> Bruce,
>>
>> What Danny suggested is OK, but what would *really* be funny
>> is to bet the 'sound hounds' $10 bucks that they can't tell
>> you what kind of amp head you're using. When they chatter
>> "Hey, it's obvious, that's a Fender Showman", don't turn it
>> around just yet..... First, ask them if they wanna see what
>> kind of power tubes you're running. Now turn it around!
>>
>> Count the red faces as it dawns on them that they've been had,
>> and stuff your wallet with your winnings! Then buy them all
>> a beer, and place the blame on us for telling you to do it!
>>
>> unlunf
>
.
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