Menu
Maybe it isn't underground in California but it sure is underground in
Seattle. People don't even know what surf it. They don't respond to
that song from Pulp Fiction or Wipe Out in many cases. Most people
will respond to Blues, Swing, and to a lesser extent bluegrass.
--- In , snydr@s... wrote:
>
> I understand your sentiment, but surf music as underground? Actually
> you nailed it with your examples - blues, swing, bluegrass - all
> historical forms of music, surf fits right in there. Not underground -
> just under-appreciated.
>
> I would think if you asked a working blues or bluegrass musician if
> they were glad to have a bubble of popularity that exposes the music to
> new fans, influences younger musicians and creates new markets, they
> would probably answer in the affirmative. As players in a currently
> little appreciated genre, we tend to get very possessive, keepers of
> the faith and all that, and there's a certain kind pride we all share
> in being in a select club so to speak. But would I rather play to a
> group of 10 hardcore fans or 300 neophytes on the bandwagon?
>
> There seems to be a cycle to these popularity bubbles: Some event
> establishes the buzz, the press picks it up and accelerates interest,
> the public start buying up the most commercial examples of the style in
> large quantities, record labels try to capitalize on it by signing lots
> of bands, attendance at shows rise dramatically. Then after about a
> year or so, it tapers, goes into decline and the popularity settles
> into it's new, somewhat higher level of hardcore fans and players. But
> I do believe it's a net gain and ultimately is worth the foray into
> mainstream popularity.
>
> Danny Snyder
>
>
>
> On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:42 AM, MattCrunk@a... wrote:
>
> > To me mainstream popularity is the kiss of death for any underground
> > musicÂ
> > scene.
> >
> > I was into blues back when it was music made by old black men and
> > only a few
> > white guys played it. Then along comes Stevie Ray Vaughan and
> > suddenlyÂ
> > everybody is a blues man. Next, I turned on to swing at a time
when
> > nobodyÂ
> > contemporary played it - then Brain Setzer goes swing, followed by a
> > slew of newÂ
> > big bands. Same thing with bluegrass. I got heavily into it just
> > before theÂ
> > Dixie Chicks and Oh' Brother came along and busted it wide open.
> >
> > I'd certainly hate to see anything like that happen to surf.
> >
> > -Matt Crunk
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > ⪠ Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> > Â
> > ⪠ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Â
> > Â
> > ⪠ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
>
In a message dated 1/15/2006 12:18:22 P.M. Central Standard Time, writes:
Long before SRV, there were The Rolling Stones, Yardbirds, Eric Clapton,
Jimi Hendrix, Johnny Winter, Alvin Lee, ZZ Top, and Canned Heat among many
others
I have to disagree. With the possible exception of Johnny Winter, the rest
of those guys definitely drew on the blues as inspiration but they played it
as rock and roll. Stevie was really the first to keep it pure and still gain
widespread popularity. It was only years later that Clapton followed Stevie's
example and reverted to a more traditional blues style.
By the way, I'll be 40 this month. I've been playing since I was 12. First
got into blues as a teenager.
-Matt Crunk
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The funny thing about surf music is it seems to be underground, especially in
certain states, but in reality it's not underground at all. Just turn on your TV
set. It's everywhere.
Billy
---- Jacob Dobner <> wrote:
> Maybe it isn't underground in California but it sure is underground in
> Seattle. People don't even know what surf it. They don't respond to
> that song from Pulp Fiction or Wipe Out in many cases. Most people
> will respond to Blues, Swing, and to a lesser extent bluegrass.
>
> --- In , snydr@s... wrote:
> >
> > I understand your sentiment, but surf music as underground? Actually
> > you nailed it with your examples - blues, swing, bluegrass - all
> > historical forms of music, surf fits right in there. Not underground -
> > just under-appreciated.
> >
> > I would think if you asked a working blues or bluegrass musician if
> > they were glad to have a bubble of popularity that exposes the music to
> > new fans, influences younger musicians and creates new markets, they
> > would probably answer in the affirmative. As players in a currently
> > little appreciated genre, we tend to get very possessive, keepers of
> > the faith and all that, and there's a certain kind pride we all share
> > in being in a select club so to speak. But would I rather play to a
> > group of 10 hardcore fans or 300 neophytes on the bandwagon?
> >
> > There seems to be a cycle to these popularity bubbles: Some event
> > establishes the buzz, the press picks it up and accelerates interest,
> > the public start buying up the most commercial examples of the style in
> > large quantities, record labels try to capitalize on it by signing lots
> > of bands, attendance at shows rise dramatically. Then after about a
> > year or so, it tapers, goes into decline and the popularity settles
> > into it's new, somewhat higher level of hardcore fans and players. But
> > I do believe it's a net gain and ultimately is worth the foray into
> > mainstream popularity.
> >
> > Danny Snyder
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:42 AM, MattCrunk@a... wrote:
> >
> > > To me mainstream popularity is the kiss of death for any underground
> > > musicÃ
> > > scene.
> > >
> > > I was into blues back when it was music made by old black men and
> > > onlyà a few
> > > white guys played it. Then along comes Stevie Ray Vaughan and
> > > suddenlyÃ
> > > everybody is a blues man.Ã Next, I turned on to swing at a time
> when
> > > nobodyÃ
> > > contemporary played it - then Brain Setzer goes swing, followed by a
> > > slew of newÃ
> > > big bands. Same thing with bluegrass. I got heavily into it just
> > > before theÃ
> > > Dixie Chicks and Oh' Brother came along and busted it wide open.
> > >
> > > I'd certainly hate to see anything like that happen to surf.
> > >
> > > -Matt Crunk
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > > Visit for archived
> > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > ⪠à Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> > > Ã
> > > ⪠à To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Ã
> > > Ã
> > > ⪠à Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
But people don't know what it is.
--- In , scanman@a... wrote:
>
> The funny thing about surf music is it seems to be underground,
especially in certain states, but in reality it's not underground at
all. Just turn on your TV set. It's everywhere.
> Billy
>
>
> ---- Jacob Dobner <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> > Maybe it isn't underground in California but it sure is underground in
> > Seattle. People don't even know what surf it. They don't respond to
> > that song from Pulp Fiction or Wipe Out in many cases. Most people
> > will respond to Blues, Swing, and to a lesser extent bluegrass.
> >
> > --- In , snydr@s... wrote:
> > >
> > > I understand your sentiment, but surf music as underground?
Actually
> > > you nailed it with your examples - blues, swing, bluegrass - all
> > > historical forms of music, surf fits right in there. Not
underground -
> > > just under-appreciated.
> > >
> > > I would think if you asked a working blues or bluegrass
musician if
> > > they were glad to have a bubble of popularity that exposes the
music to
> > > new fans, influences younger musicians and creates new markets,
they
> > > would probably answer in the affirmative. As players in a currently
> > > little appreciated genre, we tend to get very possessive,
keepers of
> > > the faith and all that, and there's a certain kind pride we all
share
> > > in being in a select club so to speak. But would I rather play to a
> > > group of 10 hardcore fans or 300 neophytes on the bandwagon?
> > >
> > > There seems to be a cycle to these popularity bubbles: Some event
> > > establishes the buzz, the press picks it up and accelerates
interest,
> > > the public start buying up the most commercial examples of the
style in
> > > large quantities, record labels try to capitalize on it by
signing lots
> > > of bands, attendance at shows rise dramatically. Then after about a
> > > year or so, it tapers, goes into decline and the popularity settles
> > > into it's new, somewhat higher level of hardcore fans and
players. But
> > > I do believe it's a net gain and ultimately is worth the foray into
> > > mainstream popularity.
> > >
> > > Danny Snyder
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:42 AM, MattCrunk@a... wrote:
> > >
> > > > To me mainstream popularity is the kiss of death for any
underground
> > > > musicÃ
> > > > scene.
> > > >
> > > > I was into blues back when it was music made by old black men
and
> > > > onlyà a few
> > > > white guys played it. Then along comes Stevie Ray Vaughan and
> > > > suddenlyÃ
> > > > everybody is a blues man.Ã Next, I turned on to swing at a time
> > when
> > > > nobodyÃ
> > > > contemporary played it - then Brain Setzer goes swing,
followed by a
> > > > slew of newÃ
> > > > big bands. Same thing with bluegrass. I got heavily into it just
> > > > before theÃ
> > > > Dixie Chicks and Oh' Brother came along and busted it wide open.
> > > >
> > > > I'd certainly hate to see anything like that happen to surf.
> > > >
> > > > -Matt Crunk
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > Visit for archived
> > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > >
> > > > ⪠à Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> > > > Ã
> > > > ⪠à To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > Ã
> > > > Ã
> > > > ⪠à Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > > > Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
You're kidding yourself. SRV was playing it as rock and roll as any of 'em.
that's why he got so much FM airplay. He even played Pipeline with Dick Dale (I
only sneak that in to keep some surf content in my post). Yes, Pride and Joy,
Scuttle Buttin', Rude Mood, Voodoo Chile, etc...are bluesy, but they're mostly
rock and roll. Yes, SRV laid in some striaght ahead blues as well, but so did
each of the artists I mentioned. And in fact Eric was bluesier than SRV in the
early '60's when he was with John Mayall's Blue's Breakers who did very little
rock and roll. Eric left the Yardbirds when the Yardbirds strayed from the blues
and went pop. Now of course he went pop as well in later years.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: expanding SURF MUSIC to newer audiences
In a message dated 1/15/2006 12:18:22 P.M. Central Standard Time, writes:
Long before SRV, there were The Rolling Stones, Yardbirds, Eric Clapton,
Jimi Hendrix, Johnny Winter, Alvin Lee, ZZ Top, and Canned Heat among many
others
I have to disagree. With the possible exception of Johnny Winter, the rest
of those guys definitely drew on the blues as inspiration but they played it
as rock and roll. Stevie was really the first to keep it pure and still gain
widespread popularity. It was only years later that Clapton followed Stevie's
example and reverted to a more traditional blues style.
By the way, I'll be 40 this month. I've been playing since I was 12. First
got into blues as a teenager.
-Matt Crunk
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
SPONSORED LINKS Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar music book
Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
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YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Jan 15, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Jacob Dobner wrote:
> But people don't know what it is.
>
Jacob, that's the challenge we all face right now. That's why the Pulp
Fiction reference was so important, at least 1/4 of the people between
15 and 40 got it.
My personal opinion is that energy needs to be spent promoting surf
bands to other non-surf bands instead of to the general public. It
would give the bill some variety, and prove less threatening to the
fragile egos of many vocalists. Instead of sending cd's to bookers,
send them to other non-surf bands you like, tell them how much you like
them and ask if they'd consider you as an opening act.
Thoughts???
Danny Snyder
I agree with Dave,
promote promote promote
Look at all the Pop and Rap music that is so popular nowdays.
It's all because of Promotion, if you promote a turd enough people
will want to see it.
Not saying that 500 people will come to see a small surf band play
at a local bar, but it's got to be better that 5.
Not to pat myself on the back, but when a really cool show, i.e.
good bands/ multiple bands/ cool venue happens.
I get out e-mails to people that aren't on the yahoo groups, or might
not read every post, Phone calls to people that don't do computers.
I've had 25 people show up to a show, that a band was basically
doing a live rehersal at a pizza parlor.
Bands and Fans need to do a better job of getting the word out about
shows and new cds that miht be going on, under the radar.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , "Dave Becker" <novapup@i...>
wrote:
>
> True, Marty.
>
> And...we may all be surprised by the effect of the MySpace community
> networking dynamic. With its growing presence of Surf bands and
> evangelists, it will surely create grass-roots awareness and
influence
> more new young artists and audiences.
>
> All good!
> BW Dave
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From:
> [mailto:]
> >On Behalf Of Marty Tippens
> >Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:18 PM
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: expanding SURF MUSIC to newer
> audiences
> >
> >A young band popularizing surf is one way that surf can be
> reinvigorated
> >but there is another way, namely movies. We saw it happen in 1994
for
> with
> >the film Pulp Fiction.
> >-Marty
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tony
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 5:27 PM
> > Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: expanding SURF MUSIC to newer
audiences
> >
> >
> > ...The only way I think that surf (or a
> > deriviative of surf) can attract more is if a young band comes
up and
> > start attracting lots of college age kids to their shows.
> > Face it, surf, even in the early sixties, was a Southern
California
> > happening which never made it nationwide as far as record sales
or
> > exposure except for a few songs.
> >
> > --- In , "Unsteady Freddie"
> > <schizofredric@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In , "Dave Becker"
<novapup@i...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, it's that endless geneology issue of how Surf was
> originally
> > > > marketed and maintains itself in the "uneducated" public
> > > subconscious.
> > > > Very frustrating, of course. However,
> > > >
> > > > I believe it is, in part, the mission of THIS generation of
Surf
> > > artists
> > > > to establish THEIR OWN identity [MODERN SURF] as the vital
and
> > > current
> > > > music it is, while "nodding" to it's inspirational roots -
the
> same
> > > as
> > > > all the other long-standing non-pop genres do. Every Surf
fan's
> > > > obligation is to smash the myths and "educate" when the
> opportunity
> > > > arises. The "new" fans will then "get it" and many already
have.
> If
> > > > folks simply send prospective Surf fans to this list, job
done.
> You
> > > > can't help but get a nice education round these parts :-)
Thanks,
> > > BN.
> > > >
> > > > I welcome new audiences to MODERN Surf every day! (And not to
> forget
> > > > that Surf itself, is a subset of Instrumental)
> > > > Viva la Twang!
> > > >
> > > > bIG wAvE Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > again, we're pretty much sharing the same vision
> > >
> > > yet the songs I mixed into the SEARCHERS show I did show the
> 'modern'
> > > surf bands have an affinity for what came before them; that's
kind
> of
> > > my point, and maybe that's gotten lost here
> > >
> > > I thought I'd ask Rick from Rickshaw Records a question, in
light
> of
> > > the comments he made -- doesn't doing a 'comp' of covers by THE
> > > CLASH, released on Rickshaw, in a way, contradict the statement
> > > made? why is going back to the late 70's/early 80's viable,
while
> > > looking back to the 60's a no-no? I LOVE that CLASH CD (in
fact I
> > > know my 'review comments' have been quoted on the Rickshaw
pages
> > > since the CD was released--
> > > )....
> > >
> > > the BBC 'review' sort of plays right into where this
discussion is
> > > embedded:
> > >
> > > "What if the Clash had surfed? Would they have listened to the
> > > Ventures and the Beach Boys instead of Jamaican Reggae? To
guess
> what
> > > might have been, this tribute brings together a number of surf
> bands
> > > from around the world united by their love of the Clash...
Personal
> > > favourites of mine being Complete Control played so fast by the
> Lava
> > > Rats it sounds like the guitarist is having trouble keeping
up, the
> > > flute led ska monster that the Anacondas make Guns Of Brixton
into,
> > > and the way the always excellent Thurston Lava Tube manage to
fit
> > > both moogs and the drum solo from Wipeout into Stay Free."
> > >
> > > KEEPIN' THE TWANG ALIVE
> > > that's what I'm about. period.
> > >
> > > Unsteady Freddie
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> messages,
> >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar
> music
> >book
> > Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ----
> >---
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> >Service.
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ----
> >---
> >
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1365 (20060114) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >.
> >Visit for archived
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> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
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>
Don't fool yourself Jacob,
Surf may be a bit more Popular here in So.Cal. than in Seattle.
But not by much of a difference.
Yeah there might be 40 to 50 bands instead of 5. But most show
attendace rates don't really show it being that big of a deal here.
Really kinda sad, some of the best shows I've seen had very few
people at them.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , "Jacob Dobner"
<jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
>
> Maybe it isn't underground in California but it sure is underground
in
> Seattle. People don't even know what surf it. They don't respond to
> that song from Pulp Fiction or Wipe Out in many cases. Most people
> will respond to Blues, Swing, and to a lesser extent bluegrass.
>
> --- In , snydr@s... wrote:
> >
> > I understand your sentiment, but surf music as underground?
Actually
> > you nailed it with your examples - blues, swing, bluegrass - all
> > historical forms of music, surf fits right in there. Not
underground -
> > just under-appreciated.
> >
> > I would think if you asked a working blues or bluegrass
musician if
> > they were glad to have a bubble of popularity that exposes the
music to
> > new fans, influences younger musicians and creates new markets,
they
> > would probably answer in the affirmative. As players in a
currently
> > little appreciated genre, we tend to get very possessive, keepers
of
> > the faith and all that, and there's a certain kind pride we all
share
> > in being in a select club so to speak. But would I rather play to
a
> > group of 10 hardcore fans or 300 neophytes on the bandwagon?
> >
> > There seems to be a cycle to these popularity bubbles: Some event
> > establishes the buzz, the press picks it up and accelerates
interest,
> > the public start buying up the most commercial examples of the
style in
> > large quantities, record labels try to capitalize on it by
signing lots
> > of bands, attendance at shows rise dramatically. Then after about
a
> > year or so, it tapers, goes into decline and the popularity
settles
> > into it's new, somewhat higher level of hardcore fans and
players. But
> > I do believe it's a net gain and ultimately is worth the foray
into
> > mainstream popularity.
> >
> > Danny Snyder
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:42 AM, MattCrunk@a... wrote:
> >
> > > To me mainstream popularity is the kiss of death for any
underground
> > > musicÂ
> > > scene.
> > >
> > > I was into blues back when it was music made by old black men
and
> > > only a few
> > > white guys played it. Then along comes Stevie Ray Vaughan and
> > > suddenlyÂ
> > > everybody is a blues man. Next, I turned on to swing at a
time
> when
> > > nobodyÂ
> > > contemporary played it - then Brain Setzer goes swing,
followed by a
> > > slew of newÂ
> > > big bands. Same thing with bluegrass. I got heavily into it
just
> > > before theÂ
> > > Dixie Chicks and Oh' Brother came along and busted it wide
open.
> > >
> > > I'd certainly hate to see anything like that happen to surf.
> > >
> > > -Matt Crunk
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > > Visit for archived
> > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > ⪠ Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> > > Â
> > > ⪠ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Â
> > > Â
> > > ⪠ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Exactly. That's why we need to edge-u-macate them.........
---- Jacob Dobner <> wrote:
> But people don't know what it is.
>
> --- In , scanman@a... wrote:
> >
> > The funny thing about surf music is it seems to be underground,
> especially in certain states, but in reality it's not underground at
> all. Just turn on your TV set. It's everywhere.
> > Billy
> >
> >
> > ---- Jacob Dobner <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> > > Maybe it isn't underground in California but it sure is underground in
> > > Seattle. People don't even know what surf it. They don't respond to
> > > that song from Pulp Fiction or Wipe Out in many cases. Most people
> > > will respond to Blues, Swing, and to a lesser extent bluegrass.
> > >
> > > --- In , snydr@s... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I understand your sentiment, but surf music as underground?
> Actually
> > > > you nailed it with your examples - blues, swing, bluegrass - all
> > > > historical forms of music, surf fits right in there. Not
> underground -
> > > > just under-appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > I would think if you asked a working blues or bluegrass
> musician if
> > > > they were glad to have a bubble of popularity that exposes the
> music to
> > > > new fans, influences younger musicians and creates new markets,
> they
> > > > would probably answer in the affirmative. As players in a currently
> > > > little appreciated genre, we tend to get very possessive,
> keepers of
> > > > the faith and all that, and there's a certain kind pride we all
> share
> > > > in being in a select club so to speak. But would I rather play to a
> > > > group of 10 hardcore fans or 300 neophytes on the bandwagon?
> > > >
> > > > There seems to be a cycle to these popularity bubbles: Some event
> > > > establishes the buzz, the press picks it up and accelerates
> interest,
> > > > the public start buying up the most commercial examples of the
> style in
> > > > large quantities, record labels try to capitalize on it by
> signing lots
> > > > of bands, attendance at shows rise dramatically. Then after about a
> > > > year or so, it tapers, goes into decline and the popularity settles
> > > > into it's new, somewhat higher level of hardcore fans and
> players. But
> > > > I do believe it's a net gain and ultimately is worth the foray into
> > > > mainstream popularity.
> > > >
> > > > Danny Snyder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:42 AM, MattCrunk@a... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > To me mainstream popularity is the kiss of death for any
> underground
> > > > > musicÃÂ
> > > > > scene.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was into blues back when it was music made by old black men
> and
> > > > > onlyÃÂ a few
> > > > > white guys played it. Then along comes Stevie Ray Vaughan and
> > > > > suddenlyÃÂ
> > > > > everybody is a blues man.ÃÂ Next, I turned on to swing at a time
> > > when
> > > > > nobodyÃÂ
> > > > > contemporary played it - then Brain Setzer goes swing,
> followed by a
> > > > > slew of newÃÂ
> > > > > big bands. Same thing with bluegrass. I got heavily into it just
> > > > > before theÃÂ
> > > > > Dixie Chicks and Oh' Brother came along and busted it wide open.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd certainly hate to see anything like that happen to surf.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Matt Crunk
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > .
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > >
> > > > > âÃÂê àVisit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> > > > > ÃÂ
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I've been following this discussion, and have a couple of questions
I'd like to pose to all of you that have commented. When you
say "newer audiences", do you mean younger people, or people of all
ages who have heard surf music, but don't know the specific genre?
Isn't the concept the same, no matter what the targeted audience?
Isn't it about marketing what you have? My own personal preference
would be to play only traditional surf, however, the new project I'm
involved in is going to play surf and pop hit's from the 60's that
were popular when surf was at it's peak. Audiences love to hear
songs they know well, but after you go thru the 6-8 surf songs that
were popular radio hits there really isn't a lot of material that
people in general will recognize. It would be great to play in front
of real surf fans all the time, but as a musician I feel that
playing to larger audiences in bigger venues expands your musical
capabilities, in both popularity and monetary terms. I know that
some surf musicians are dedicated purists, and I respect that,
however, I do feel that by playing other related music that's more
well known and recognized by general audiences, you have a platform
to introduce more people to real surf and give them an understanding
about the music. As someone commented earlier, a lot of people have
heard surf music....they just aren't aware of what it
is....IMHO....looking forward to reading your thoughts on the
subject.
--- In , scanman@a... wrote:
>
> Exactly. That's why we need to edge-u-macate them.........
>
>
>
> ---- Jacob Dobner <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> > But people don't know what it is.
> >
> > --- In , scanman@a... wrote:
> > >
> > > The funny thing about surf music is it seems to be underground,
> > especially in certain states, but in reality it's not
underground at
> > all. Just turn on your TV set. It's everywhere.
> > > Billy
> > >
> > >
> > > ---- Jacob Dobner <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> > > > Maybe it isn't underground in California but it sure is
underground in
> > > > Seattle. People don't even know what surf it. They don't
respond to
> > > > that song from Pulp Fiction or Wipe Out in many cases. Most
people
> > > > will respond to Blues, Swing, and to a lesser extent
bluegrass.
> > > >
> > > > --- In , snydr@s... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand your sentiment, but surf music as
underground?
> > Actually
> > > > > you nailed it with your examples - blues, swing,
bluegrass - all
> > > > > historical forms of music, surf fits right in there. Not
> > underground -
> > > > > just under-appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would think if you asked a working blues or bluegrass
> > musician if
> > > > > they were glad to have a bubble of popularity that exposes
the
> > music to
> > > > > new fans, influences younger musicians and creates new
markets,
> > they
> > > > > would probably answer in the affirmative. As players in a
currently
> > > > > little appreciated genre, we tend to get very possessive,
> > keepers of
> > > > > the faith and all that, and there's a certain kind pride
we all
> > share
> > > > > in being in a select club so to speak. But would I rather
play to a
> > > > > group of 10 hardcore fans or 300 neophytes on the
bandwagon?
> > > > >
> > > > > There seems to be a cycle to these popularity bubbles:
Some event
> > > > > establishes the buzz, the press picks it up and accelerates
> > interest,
> > > > > the public start buying up the most commercial examples of
the
> > style in
> > > > > large quantities, record labels try to capitalize on it by
> > signing lots
> > > > > of bands, attendance at shows rise dramatically. Then
after about a
> > > > > year or so, it tapers, goes into decline and the
popularity settles
> > > > > into it's new, somewhat higher level of hardcore fans and
> > players. But
> > > > > I do believe it's a net gain and ultimately is worth the
foray into
> > > > > mainstream popularity.
> > > > >
> > > > > Danny Snyder
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:42 AM, MattCrunk@a... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > To me mainstream popularity is the kiss of death for any
> > underground
> > > > > > musicÃÂ
> > > > > > scene.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was into blues back when it was music made by old
black men
> > and
> > > > > > onlyÃÂ a few
> > > > > > white guys played it. Then along comes Stevie Ray
Vaughan and
> > > > > > suddenlyÃÂ
> > > > > > everybody is a blues man.ÃÂ Next, I turned on to
swing at a time
> > > > when
> > > > > > nobodyÃÂ
> > > > > > contemporary played it - then Brain Setzer goes swing,
> > followed by a
> > > > > > slew of newÃÂ
> > > > > > big bands. Same thing with bluegrass. I got heavily
into it just
> > > > > > before theÃÂ
> > > > > > Dixie Chicks and Oh' Brother came along and busted it
wide open.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd certainly hate to see anything like that happen to
surf.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Matt Crunk
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > Visit for
archived
> > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > âÃÂê àVisit your
group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> > > > > > ÃÂ
> > > > > > âÃÂê àTo unsubscribe from this group,
send an email to:
> > > > > > ÃÂ
> > > > > > ÃÂ
> > > > > > âÃÂê àYour use of Yahoo! Groups is
subject to the Yahoo!
> > Terms of
> > > > > > Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > Visit for
archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>>You're kidding yourself. SRV was playing it as rock and roll as any of
'em. that's why he got so much FM airplay. . . .And in fact Eric was bluesier
than SRV in the early '60's when he was with John Mayall's Blue's Breakers who
did very little rock and roll.<<
Sorry, I just don't see that at all. SRV was as much a blues purist as
Albert King, Albert Collins, or Buddy Guy. Clapton on the other hand always
just
sounded like a white guy mimicking the blues to me - even his early stuff
with Mayall. Only in later years did he begin to sound somewhat authentic, but
I'm not sure he ever fully got there.
I'm not saying SRV played only blues, but everything he played had a very
authentic Texas blues flavor to it. To keep on topic - The Vaughan Brothers'
version of Pipeline remains one of my favorite covers.
-Matt Crunk
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was surprised to get the same reaction when I told a friend about the Surf
Show I was promoting in Huntsville, AL with the Penetrators. This guy is in
his 50s and very knowledgeable of music, or so I thought. But when I said we
were putting on a surf show his reaction was "What, you mean like the Beach
Boys?" I said "No, like Dick Dale". Then he got it.
But I think most people associate certain sounds with certain musical genres
more so than specific songs. When people hear music laden with reverb they
think surf, even if they don't know what to call it. If they hear slap back
they think rockabilly.
-Matt Crunk
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well we're actually saying the same thing but interpreting in different ways,
Matt. When we agree that SRV didn't play only blues, that's where I say he was
no longer a blues purist but you cut him the slack. I know that Albert King also
didn't play strictly blues but he played mostly blues. SRV played mostly rock.
If you think Eric was white sounding, that's fine, but the point still stands
that the blues hasn't been just a few black men since before you were born. The
last time I saw SRV he had BB King open at the Greek. It was a mistake as SRV
sounded very white in comparison.
I didn't realize Pipeline was performed by the Vaughan brothers. I'll have to
pull that one out and give it a listen.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: expanding SURF MUSIC to newer audiences
>>You're kidding yourself. SRV was playing it as rock and roll as any of
'em. that's why he got so much FM airplay. . . .And in fact Eric was
bluesier
than SRV in the early '60's when he was with John Mayall's Blue's Breakers
who
did very little rock and roll.<<
Sorry, I just don't see that at all. SRV was as much a blues purist as
Albert King, Albert Collins, or Buddy Guy. Clapton on the other hand always
just
sounded like a white guy mimicking the blues to me - even his early stuff
with Mayall. Only in later years did he begin to sound somewhat authentic,
but
I'm not sure he ever fully got there.
I'm not saying SRV played only blues, but everything he played had a very
authentic Texas blues flavor to it. To keep on topic - The Vaughan Brothers'
version of Pipeline remains one of my favorite covers.
-Matt Crunk
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In a message dated 1/15/2006 8:44:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, writes:
I didn't realize Pipeline was performed by the Vaughan brothers. I'll have
to pull that one out and give it a listen.
It wasn't on the Vaughan Bros album. I believe is was done for a soundtrack
- Back to the Beach, I think. There's also a live version on the SRV box set.
Saw Stevie twice myself - early 1986 and again Summer of 87 - immeadiatly
pre- and post- drug rehab I believe. Second show was so much better.
-MC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On 1/15/06, <> wrote:
>
> It wasn't on the Vaughan Bros album. I believe is was done for a soundtrack
> - Back to the Beach, I think. There's also a live version on the SRV box set.
That was Dick Dale and SRV...recorded separately...not in the same room...
It got a Grammy nomination.
BN
Me and the DJ at a relatives wedding.
Me: "Can you play some surf music?"
DJ: "Huh?"
Me: "Surf music."
DJ: "Huh?"
Me: "Surf music, you know, Dick Dale, Wipeout...."
DJ: "Huh?"
Me: "You've never heard of Dick Dale or Wipeout by the Surfaris?"
DJ: "No."
Me: "You ever hear of The Beach Boys?"
DJ: "No."
Me: Exit stage left.
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: expanding SURF MUSIC to newer audiences
> I was surprised to get the same reaction when I told a friend about the
Surf
> Show I was promoting in Huntsville, AL with the Penetrators. This guy is
in
> his 50s and very knowledgeable of music, or so I thought. But when I said
we
> were putting on a surf show his reaction was "What, you mean like the
Beach
> Boys?" I said "No, like Dick Dale". Then he got it.
>
> But I think most people associate certain sounds with certain musical
genres
> more so than specific songs. When people hear music laden with reverb
they
> think surf, even if they don't know what to call it. If they hear slap
back
> they think rockabilly.
>
> -Matt Crunk
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
hah, yeah well i was into jazz before the black man dumbed it down from such
modern whitey composers as Debussy, and Varese. <g> <--(unlunf style! ;) )
Surf music is not underground. Underground is an archaic term, no longer
relevant to the informational age we live in. Everything is accessible now.
For every genre, there will always be the acts we dont want to hear, and the
hacks, even surf !
I was wathcing Jackass (MTV) the other night ( slow night ) and they played
about 8 surf songs, including mr moto. sweet wrote: To me mainstream popularity is the kiss of
death for any underground music
scene.
I was into blues back when it was music made by old black men and only a few
white guys played it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yeah, I am definitely familiar with the SRV / DD version of Pipeline. I didn't
think there was one on the "Family Album" but now that I think of it, didn't the
brothers Vaughan do it live somewhere, both sharing a double neck guitar ?
I also saw SRV pre and post rehaab but liked the pre better although that may
have been because the post show was the one with BB King opening. SRV still had
the awesome guitar licks at that show but Stevie's voice following BB's voice
might as well have been Bob Dylan following Tony Bennett.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: expanding SURF MUSIC to newer audiences
In a message dated 1/15/2006 8:44:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, writes:
I didn't realize Pipeline was performed by the Vaughan brothers. I'll have
to pull that one out and give it a listen.
It wasn't on the Vaughan Bros album. I believe is was done for a soundtrack
- Back to the Beach, I think. There's also a live version on the SRV box set.
Saw Stevie twice myself - early 1986 and again Summer of 87 - immeadiatly
pre- and post- drug rehab I believe. Second show was so much better.
-MC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wow Marty! You saw SRV after B.B.King? "The Thrill Definitely Isn't
Gone"............I'm jealous!!
B-B-O
---- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
> Yeah, I am definitely familiar with the SRV / DD version of Pipeline. I didn't
think there was one on the "Family Album" but now that I think of it, didn't the
brothers Vaughan do it live somewhere, both sharing a double neck guitar ?
>
> I also saw SRV pre and post rehaab but liked the pre better although that may
have been because the post show was the one with BB King opening. SRV still had
the awesome guitar licks at that show but Stevie's voice following BB's voice
might as well have been Bob Dylan following Tony Bennett.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: expanding SURF MUSIC to newer audiences
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/15/2006 8:44:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> I didn't realize Pipeline was performed by the Vaughan brothers. I'll have
> to pull that one out and give it a listen.
>
>
>
> It wasn't on the Vaughan Bros album. I believe is was done for a soundtrack
> - Back to the Beach, I think. There's also a live version on the SRV box
set.
>
> Saw Stevie twice myself - early 1986 and again Summer of 87 - immeadiatly
> pre- and post- drug rehab I believe. Second show was so much better.
>
> -MC
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
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> Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
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I agree with Marty. SRV was more waaaay more rock than blues,
and I would put him in the same camp as Clapton, Hendrix,
ZZ Top, and Ten Years After. Johnny Winter, although playing
"pure" blues (if there is such a thing) more often than not,
had his rock period. IMHO Canned Heat was more of a "pure" blues
band than any of them. Who cares? It's all great to me. I always
have mixed feelings when a little known favorite of mine graduates
to the big leagues: I'm happy for their success, but don't much
like the hassle factor of having to put up with bigger crowds,
fair-weather fans, and (in the day)radio over-saturation. I try
to be thankful that I knew about them in the "before-time",
and relish the memories of seeing them in small venues, paying
cheap ticket prices, and maybe having a little of the arrogance
of knowing about, and being part of something great that was off
the radar of the masses. Despite my tendencies to want to be
a snob about it, I'm trying real hard not to be.
Bob S.
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
>
> You're kidding yourself. SRV was playing it as rock and roll as any
of 'em. that's why he got so much FM airplay. He even played Pipeline
with Dick Dale (I only sneak that in to keep some surf content in my
post). Yes, Pride and Joy, Scuttle Buttin', Rude Mood, Voodoo Chile,
etc...are bluesy, but they're mostly rock and roll. Yes, SRV laid in
some striaght ahead blues as well, but so did each of the artists I
mentioned. And in fact Eric was bluesier than SRV in the early '60's
when he was with John Mayall's Blue's Breakers who did very little
rock and roll. Eric left the Yardbirds when the Yardbirds strayed
from the blues and went pop. Now of course he went pop as well in
later years.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MattCrunk@a...
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: expanding SURF MUSIC to newer
audiences
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/15/2006 12:18:22 P.M. Central Standard
Time,
> mctippens@e... writes:
>
> Long before SRV, there were The Rolling Stones, Yardbirds, Eric
Clapton,
> Jimi Hendrix, Johnny Winter, Alvin Lee, ZZ Top, and Canned Heat
among many
> others
>
>
> I have to disagree. With the possible exception of Johnny Winter,
the rest
> of those guys definitely drew on the blues as inspiration but
they played it
> as rock and roll. Stevie was really the first to keep it pure
and still gain
> widespread popularity. It was only years later that Clapton
followed Stevie's
> example and reverted to a more traditional blues style.
>
> By the way, I'll be 40 this month. I've been playing since I was
12. First
> got into blues as a teenager.
>
> -Matt Crunk
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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