Menu
alright phil and others,
please help me out. there are 2 samples in the FILES
section on this yahoo group. the folder is called
"NealCraptar"
sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without the amp
modeling
both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ ( that i
always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre amp ( to
match up impedence ) and a little reverb. Also they
were run through a tube amp compressor, but with unity
gain.
now, ive never been in a studio, and have just heard
the guitar coming through the monitors. how do my
samples differ ? would you suggest i work on the
modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or scratch
both. and anything else you can think of.
thanks, i appreciate this
neal
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> that's novel - let's try it.
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> thanks phil, i can try most of these, viturally of
> course ! if i post some quick riffs of just guitar,
> can you tell me how they compare to more
> professional
> recordin
gs and how you might go about adjusting them
Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead and colorless tone. The
word that comes to mind is "brittle." Strings? Pickups? Amp?
A quick look with EQ and you have almost no low frequencies (where the
beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and color).
A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out making it sound powerful and
rich requires solving the problem with the guitar/amp.
Since you said that sample 2 was virtually direct, I am assuming that
the guitar is the problem, either strings or pickups or they was you
set your controls. If by direct you don't mean direct, but just mean
ampo flat, then the amp may still be the problem.
I can see why you're troubled. The only other time I've heard this dead
a tone was once with Leslita of the Neptunas. With major doctoring, it
only rose to marginally acceptable.
Here are links to quickly doctored version. This is NOT what you'd do
to fix this, but comapre to your originals. Even with the extreme bass
boost I used, there's little beef here.
Phil
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
---------------------------------
alright phil and others,
please help me out. there are 2 samples in the FILES
section on this yahoo group. the folder is called
"NealCraptar"
sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without the amp
modeling
both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ ( that i
always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre amp ( to
match up impedence ) and a little reverb. Also they
were run through a tube amp compressor, but with unity
gain.
now, ive never been in a studio, and have just heard
the guitar coming through the monitors. how do my
samples differ ? would you suggest i work on the
modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or scratch
both. and anything else you can think of.
thanks, i appreciate this
neal
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> that's novel - let's try it.
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> thanks phil, i can try most of these, viturally of
> course ! if i post some quick riffs of just guitar,
> can you tell me how they compare to more
> professional
> recordin
gs and how you might go about adjusting them
.
Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
---------------------------------
what kind of guitar and amp are you using?
that makes sense. im just kinda floating in the mid
range with no body and color. brittle is definitly the
word. the thing is, is that, when the sound comes out
of my nearfields, it sounds no where near what it does
when it reaches the stereo. or so it seems. maybe im
doing something wrong. but ive had this problem even
pre nearfields.
thanks for taking the time to check them out and give
an engineers opinion. i actualy thought your samp2a
gave better results. a couple things im gonna try,
swap out the guitar ! and try to borrow some anything
i can from my friends to put before the computer.i
could have never guessed it might be my guitar. but
what your telling me is that even DIRECT should sound
better than that. ill post new samples when ive
changed some things.
i use a 96 california fat strat. daddario 12's. I
stick to the middle single coil pickup. i usually
change the tone to take off some of the highs.
heres my signal path.
guitar >> behringer eurorack mixer >> Boss NS-2 Noise
Suppressor >> m-audio 24/96 card to my real time
efects / midi computer ( this is where my amp modeling
is done ) >> m-audio 24/96 to scsi harddisk recording
computer >> monitors
all connected with monster prolink cables.
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead and
> colorless tone. The
> word that comes to mind is "brittle." Strings?
> Pickups? Amp?
>
> A quick look with EQ and you have almost no low
> frequencies (where the
> beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and color).
>
> A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out making it
> sound powerful and
> rich requires solving the problem with the
> guitar/amp.
>
> Since ou said that sample 2 was virtually direct, I
> am assuming that
> the guitar is the problem, either strings or pickups
> or they was you
> set your controls. If by direct you don't mean
> direct, but just mean
> ampo flat, then the amp may still be the problem.
>
> I can see why you're troubled. The only other time
> I've heard this dead
> a tone was once with Leslita of the Neptunas. With
> major doctoring, it
> only rose to marginally acceptable.
>
> Here are links to quickly doctored version. This is
> NOT what you'd do
> to fix this, but comapre to your originals. Even
> with the extreme bass
> boost I used, there's little beef here.
>
>
>
>
> Phil
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> alright phil and others,
>
> please help me out. there are 2 samples in the FILES
> section on this yahoo group. the folder is called
>
> "NealCraptar"
>
> sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without the amp
> modeling
>
> both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ ( that i
> always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre amp ( to
> match up impedence ) and a little reverb. Also they
> were run through a tube amp compressor, but with
> unity
> gain.
>
> now, ive never been in a studio, and have just heard
> the guitar coming through the monitors. how do my
> samples differ ? would you suggest i work on the
> modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or scratch
> both. and anything else you can think of.
>
> thanks, i appreciate this
>
> neal
>
> --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
>
> > that's novel - let's try it.
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > thanks phil, i can try most of these, viturally of
> > course ! if i post some quick riffs of just
> guitar,
> > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > professional
> > recordin
> gs and how you might go about adjusting them
>
>
>
> .
> Visit
> for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
phil, and anyone else,
ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a better
tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3 in the
NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let me know
if its more workable, or if i should go back to the
drawing board.
thanks !
neal
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead and
> colorless tone. The
> word that comes to mind is "brittle." Strings?
> Pickups? Amp?
>
> A quick look with EQ and you have almost no low
> frequencies (where the
> beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and color).
>
> A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out making it
> sound powerful and
> rich requires solving the problem with the
> guitar/amp.
>
> Since you said that sample 2 was virtually direct, I
> am assuming that
> the guitar is the problem, either strings or pickups
> or they was you
> set your controls. If by direct you don't mean
> direct, but just mean
> ampo flat, then the amp may still be the problem.
>
> I can see why you're troubled. The only other time
> I've heard this dead
> a tone was once with Leslita of the Neptunas. With
> major doctoring, it
> only rose to marginally acceptable.
>
> Here are links to quickly doctored version. This is
> NOT what you'd do
> to fix this, but comapre to your originals. Even
> with the extreme bass
> boost I used, there's little beef here.
>
>
>
>
> Phil
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> alright phil and others,
>
> please help me out. there are 2 samples in the FILES
> section on this yahoo group. the folder is called
>
> "NealCraptar"
>
> sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without the amp
> modeling
>
> both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ ( that i
> always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre amp ( to
> match up impedence ) and a little reverb. Also they
> were run through a tube amp compressor, but with
> unity
> gain.
>
> now, ive never been in a studio, and have just heard
> the guitar coming through the monitors. how do my
> samples differ ? would you suggest i work on the
> modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or scratch
> both. and anything else you can think of.
>
> thanks, i appreciate this
>
> neal
>
> --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
>
> > that's novel - let's try it.
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > thanks phil, i can try most of these, viturally of
> > course ! if i post some quick riffs of just
> guitar,
> > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > professional
> > recordin
> gs and how you might go about adjusting them
>
>
>
> .
> Visit
> for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
>
> phil, and anyone else,
>
> ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a better
> tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3 in the
> NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let me know
> if its more workable, or if i should go back to the
> drawing board.
>
> thanks !
>
> neal
Neal (!),
There is a remarkable difference in the two samples. Since I am having
similiar problems when I record myself, can I ask what you did
differently between the two?
Thanks
BN
Hi Neal
busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both sympathetic and
interested in your problems. having said that, I'm for all practical
purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my approach is 'from
scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps should be taken with
a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more experienced sound guru's
can elaborate on the points I'm about to make? btw, best tip is at
the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT, it seems to me that
the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs are still a bit thin
and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in just adding mush to
mix, because the well defined lows will come out, but the mushy lows
might drown in the other lows... you'd have to check it in a mix
though.
i checked your recording line in the 'old' post, assume your still
working with that gear. I noticed there is quite a lot there, and
most if not all not professional level. Now, I work with the same
kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding 'cheap' gear, will
add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of thumb I use is "don't
add anything that says 'behringer' till you really need it". and that
doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out of the signal chain.
Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm using the name
behringer metaforically here, cause everyone puts 'em down, but it
goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I am impressed with
what they can offer for little cash), they did a great job making
recording stuff available for the masses, and you got to love that,
and their stuff works pretty well, but still: they do have lesser
sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a victim of
inexperienced use, you have more cables, these things add to the risk
that what your adding doesn't do what you want it to, and does do
what you don't want it to do! that's at least my experience.
there's a moddeler in your line - have you tweaked the moddeler's
controls to the full, couldn't the problem be there? what kind is it?
I have one built in in the vs880, and it's pretty useless for guitar
(workable for bass tho)
have you thought about changing the moddeler for an amp and mic? And
before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this: Tres Manos from
Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded his guitar through a
battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know, the ones that
measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive sound! (and this is
not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy a guitar a while ago,
and I asked about it.)
and here's the best tip: buy a book on recording. Amazon has a bunch,
for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and they'll do more for your
recording then any piece of equipment. I bought 'home recording for
dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry level as it is, it
helped me understand so much about what the F i was trying to do.
maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going for those
interested,
WR
--- In , "Neal S." <memoryover@y...>
wrote:
>
> phil, and anyone else,
>
> ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a better
> tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3 in the
> NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let me know
> if its more workable, or if i should go back to the
> drawing board.
>
> thanks !
>
> neal
>
> --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead and
> > colorless tone. The
> > word that comes to mind is "brittle." Strings?
> > Pickups? Amp?
> >
> > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no low
> > frequencies (where the
> > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and color).
> >
> > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out making it
> > sound powerful and
> > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > guitar/amp.
> >
> > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually direct, I
> > am assuming that
> > the guitar is the problem, either strings or pickups
> > or they was you
> > set your controls. If by direct you don't mean
> > direct, but just mean
> > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the problem.
> >
> > I can see why you're troubled. The only other time
> > I've heard this dead
> > a tone was once with Leslita of the Neptunas. With
> > major doctoring, it
> > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> >
> > Here are links to quickly doctored version. This is
> > NOT what you'd do
> > to fix this, but comapre to your originals. Even
> > with the extreme bass
> > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > alright phil and others,
> >
> > please help me out. there are 2 samples in the FILES
> > section on this yahoo group. the folder is called
> >
> > "NealCraptar"
> >
> > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without the amp
> > modeling
> >
> > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ ( that i
> > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre amp ( to
> > match up impedence ) and a little reverb. Also they
> > were run through a tube amp compressor, but with
> > unity
> > gain.
> >
> > now, ive never been in a studio, and have just heard
> > the guitar coming through the monitors. how do my
> > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on the
> > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or scratch
> > both. and anything else you can think of.
> >
> > thanks, i appreciate this
> >
> > neal
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> >
> > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > thanks phil, i can try most of these, viturally of
> > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of just
> > guitar,
> > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > professional
> > > recordin
> > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit
> > for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> > to:
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
come at a better time, because your basically telling
me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing about
this last week.
let me first tell you the signal chain of new sample
10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the behringer
eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
I could not for the life of squeeze anything out of
the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i had
the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the POD,
the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins. when i
played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i strummed
a chord it was all distortion because of the max
volume.
so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck the
amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my new
saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im know
theres still plenty of room for that. this particular
sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill off
axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no EQ,
just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into a
reverb standalone VST plug-in.
i just bought a book ! its callled "modern recording
techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my nose in
that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie i
know that when i presented them the behringer vs
mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less, im
seeing that it is crap.
I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
which if your a home recorder, you should definitly
get )
anyway i recently bought their book of collection of
articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM ) and
it seems like almost everyone is geting great sound
albums
with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive gear, i
mean i could go buy all that used for probaly $150.
what do would you say to someone presenting you with
this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to buy
a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where to
start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57 ?
Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have been
heavily compared to the sm57/58.
finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im going to
get right to work on your suggestions.
thanks WR !
neal
PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar, to
show me what it should sound like, and the gear you
use. that would probaly help me out.
--- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> Hi Neal
>
> busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> sympathetic and
> interested in your problems. having said that, I'm
> for all practical
> purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> approach is 'from
> scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps
> should be taken with
> a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> experienced sound guru's
> can elaborate on the points I'm about to make? btw,
> best tip is at
> the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
>
> your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT, it
> seems to me that
> the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs are
> still a bit thin
> and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in just
> adding mush to
> mix, because the well defined lows will come out,
> but the mushy lows
> might drown in the other lows... you'd have to check
> it in a mix
> though.
>
> i checked your recording line in the 'old' post,
> assume your still
> working with that gear. I noticed there is quite a
> lot there, and
> most if not all not professional level. Now, I work
> with the same
> kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding 'cheap'
> gear, will
> add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of thumb
> I use is "don't
> add anything that says 'behringer' till you really
> need it". and that
> doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out of
> the signal chain.
> Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm using
> the name
> behringer metaforically here, cause everyone puts
> 'em down, but it
> goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I am
> impressed with
> what they can offer for little cash), they did a
> great job making
> recording stuff available for the masses, and you
> got to love that,
> and their stuff works pretty well, but still: they
> do have lesser
> sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a
> victim of
> inexperienced use, you have more cables, these
> things add to the risk
> that what your adding doesn't do what you want it
> to, and does do
> what you don't want it to do! that's at least my
> experience.
>
> there's a moddeler in your line - have you tweaked
> the moddeler's
> controls to the full, couldn't the problem be there?
> what kind is it?
> I have one built in in the vs880, and it's pretty
> useless for guitar
> (workable for bass tho)
>
> have you thought about changing the moddeler for an
> amp and mic? And
> before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this:
> Tres Manos from
> Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded his
> guitar through a
> battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know, the
> ones that
> measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive
> sound! (and this is
> not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy a
> guitar a while ago,
> and I asked about it.)
>
> and here's the best tip: buy a book on recording.
> Amazon has a bunch,
> for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and they'll
> do more for your
> recording then any piece of equipment. I bought
> 'home recording for
> dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry level
> as it is, it
> helped me understand so much about what the F i was
> trying to do.
> maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
>
> thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going for
> those
> interested,
>
> WR
>
>
> --- In , "Neal S."
> <memoryover@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > phil, and anyone else,
> >
> > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> better
> > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3 in
> the
> > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let me
> know
> > if its more workable, or if i should go back to
> the
> > drawing board.
> >
> > thanks !
> >
> > neal
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> >
> > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead and
> > > colorless tone. The
> > > word that comes to mind is "brittle." Strings?
> > > Pickups? Amp?
> > >
> > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no low
> > > frequencies (where the
> > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and
> color).
> > >
> > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out making
> it
> > > sound powerful and
> > > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > > guitar/amp.
> > >
> > > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually
> direct, I
> > > am assuming that
> > > the guitar is the problem, either strings or
> pickups
> > > or they was you
> > > set your controls. If by direct you don't mean
> > > direct, but just mean
> > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> problem.
> > >
> > > I can see why you're troubled. The only other
> time
> > > I've heard this dead
> > > a tone was once with Leslita of the Neptunas.
> With
> > > major doctoring, it
> > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > >
> > > Here are links to quickly doctored version. This
> is
> > > NOT what you'd do
> > > to fix this, but comapre to your originals. Even
> > > with the extreme bass
> > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > alright phil and others,
> > >
> > > please help me out. there are 2 samples in the
> FILES
> > > section on this yahoo group. the folder is
> called
> > >
> > > "NealCraptar"
> > >
> > > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without the
> amp
> > > modeling
> > >
> > > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ (
> that i
> > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre amp
> ( to
> > > match up impedence ) and a little reverb. Also
> they
> > > were run through a tube amp compressor, but with
> > > unity
> > > gain.
> > >
> > > now, ive never been in a studio, and have just
> heard
> > > the guitar coming through the monitors. how do
> my
> > > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on the
> > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or
> scratch
> > > both. and anything else you can think of.
> > >
> > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > >
> > > neal
> > >
> > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > >
> > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> viturally of
> > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of just
> > > guitar,
> > > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > > professional
> > > > recordin
> > > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > > Visit
>
> > > for archived
> > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email
> > > to:
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
brian thanks !
i went the way of micing an amp. a 10$ guitar center
mic, through a crate gx120 ( 1x12 solid state ). thats
the only thing i changed. the rest of the chain goes
through my mixer to soundcards. i still got some ways
to go though.
what is your signal chain ? well figure this out !
--- Brian Neal <> wrote:
> --- In , "Neal S."
> <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> >
> > phil, and anyone else,
> >
> > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> better
> > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3 in
> the
> > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let me
> know
> > if its more workable, or if i should go back to
> the
> > drawing board.
> >
> > thanks !
> >
> > neal
>
> Neal (!),
>
> There is a remarkable difference in the two samples.
> Since I am having
> similiar problems when I record myself, can I ask
> what you did
> differently between the two?
>
> Thanks
> BN
>
>
>
>
What does the guitar sound like plugged in directly - that is,
completely un-colored and not amplified.
More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and indistinct, as if they are
not there to begin with.
Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the guitar only on each
string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
Trying to solve any process problem with many variables being tweaked
together only leads to more chaos unless by sheer luck you step in it
and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant of the pile you started
with.
Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
Only later can you insert more toys and then just one at a time until
you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause you to go back and twek
something else, but at least you have a starting point. When you go
back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it doesn't do what yu want it
tp, then reset everything to where they were before proceeding.
While the new sample sounds better, it's all about delay. The tone is
not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's placid. In a mix, it
will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not a strong sound. If it's
not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going to get the best
result.
Phil
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
> come at a better time, because your basically telling
> me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing about
> this last week.
>
> let me first tell you the signal chain of new sample
> 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the behringer
> eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
>
> I could not for the life of squeeze anything out of
> the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i had
> the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the POD,
> the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins. when i
> played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
> level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i strummed
> a chord it was all distortion because of the max
> volume.
>
> so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck the
> amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my new
> saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
>
> Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im know
> theres still plenty of room for that. this particular
> sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill off
> axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no EQ,
> just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into a
> reverb standalone VST plug-in.
>
> i just bought a book ! its callled "modern recording
> techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my nose in
> that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
>
> about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
> behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
> mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie i
> know that when i presented them the behringer vs
> mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less, im
> seeing that it is crap.
>
> I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
> which if your a home recorder, you should definitly
> get )
> anyway i recently bought their book of collection of
> articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM ) and
> it seems like almost everyone is geting great sound
> albums
> with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
> tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive gear, i
> mean i could go buy all that used for probaly $150.
>
> what do would you say to someone presenting you with
> this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to buy
> a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where to
> start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57 ?
> Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have been
> heavily compared to the sm57/58.
>
> finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im going to
> get right to work on your suggestions.
>
> thanks WR !
> neal
>
>
> PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
> thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar, to
> show me what it should sound like, and the gear you
> use. that would probaly help me out.
>
>
>
> --- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
>
> > Hi Neal
> >
> > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > sympathetic and
> > interested in your problems. having said that, I'm
> > for all practical
> > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > approach is 'from
> > scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps
> > should be taken with
> > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > experienced sound guru's
> > can elaborate on the points I'm about to make? btw,
> > best tip is at
> > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> >
> > your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT, it
> > seems to me that
> > the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs are
> > still a bit thin
> > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in just
> > adding mush to
> > mix, because the well defined lows will come out,
> > but the mushy lows
> > might drown in the other lows... you'd have to check
> > it in a mix
> > though.
> >
> > i checked your recording line in the 'old' post,
> > assume your still
> > working with that gear. I noticed there is quite a
> > lot there, and
> > most if not all not professional level. Now, I work
> > with the same
> > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding 'cheap'
> > gear, will
> > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of thumb
> > I use is "don't
> > add anything that says 'behringer' till you really
> > need it". and that
> > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out of
> > the signal chain.
> > Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm using
> > the name
> > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone puts
> > 'em down, but it
> > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I am
> > impressed with
> > what they can offer for little cash), they did a
> > great job making
> > recording stuff available for the masses, and you
> > got to love that,
> > and their stuff works pretty well, but still: they
> > do have lesser
> > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a
> > victim of
> > inexperienced use, you have more cables, these
> > things add to the risk
> > that what your adding doesn't do what you want it
> > to, and does do
> > what you don't want it to do! that's at least my
> > experience.
> >
> > there's a moddeler in your line - have you tweaked
> > the moddeler's
> > controls to the full, couldn't the problem be there?
> > what kind is it?
> > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's pretty
> > useless for guitar
> > (workable for bass tho)
> >
> > have you thought about changing the moddeler for an
> > amp and mic? And
> > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this:
> > Tres Manos from
> > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded his
> > guitar through a
> > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know, the
> > ones that
> > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive
> > sound! (and this is
> > not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy a
> > guitar a while ago,
> > and I asked about it.)
> >
> > and here's the best tip: buy a book on recording.
> > Amazon has a bunch,
> > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and they'll
> > do more for your
> > recording then any piece of equipment. I bought
> > 'home recording for
> > dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry level
> > as it is, it
> > helped me understand so much about what the F i was
> > trying to do.
> > maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
> >
> > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going for
> > those
> > interested,
> >
> > WR
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Neal S."
> > <memoryover@y...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > phil, and anyone else,
> > >
> > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> > better
> > > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3 in
> > the
> > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let me
> > know
> > > if its more workable, or if i should go back to
> > the
> > > drawing board.
> > >
> > > thanks !
> > >
> > > neal
> > >
> > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead and
> > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle." Strings?
> > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > >
> > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no low
> > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and
> > color).
> > > >
> > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out making
> > it
> > > > sound powerful and
> > > > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > > > guitar/amp.
> > > >
> > > > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually
> > direct, I
> > > > am assuming that
> > > > the guitar is the problem, either strings or
> > pickups
> > > > or they was you
> > > > set your controls. If by direct you don't mean
> > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > problem.
> > > >
> > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only other
> > time
> > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the Neptunas.
> > With
> > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > >
> > > > Here are links to quickly doctored version. This
> > is
> > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > to fix this, but comapre to your originals. Even
> > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > alright phil and others,
> > > >
> > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples in the
> > FILES
> > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder is
> > called
> > > >
> > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > >
> > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without the
> > amp
> > > > modeling
> > > >
> > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ (
> > that i
> > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre amp
> > ( to
> > > > match up impedence ) and a little reverb. Also
> > they
> > > > were run through a tube amp compressor, but with
> > > > unity
> > > > gain.
> > > >
> > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and have just
> > heard
> > > > the guitar coming through the monitors. how do
> > my
> > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on the
> > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or
> > scratch
> > > > both. and anything else you can think of.
> > > >
> > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > >
> > > > neal
> > > >
> > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > viturally of
> > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of just
> > > > guitar,
> > > > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > > > professional
> > > > > recordin
> > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > Visit
> >
> > > > for archived
> > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > email
> > > > to:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home
> page
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Neal,
Let me amplify on what Phil just said - he's telling you to
obey the Master Law of everything in life - you got to learn
to walk before you can run. <g> Unfortunately, it sure feels
like you can run, so you (and every other recordist) start out
not knowing that you haven't yet walked correctly. You have
come to that realization, and are asking for help - that's a
good thing. <g>
Phil said it best, but let me add my own 2 cents worth here.
First penny: Never forget the KISS principle! 'Nuff said.
Second penny: Always document what you just did. Keep track
of what you tried, and whether or not it worked. When you've
found the Holy Grail, STOP! Make sure you can read your notes,
and get to that same point again. Now you can start experimenting
with other stuff, because you know you can always find your way
back to where you were most satisfied.
unlunf
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> What does the guitar sound like plugged in directly - that is,
> completely un-colored and not amplified?
>
> More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and indistinct, as if they
> are not there to begin with.
>
> Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the guitar only on each
> string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
>
> Trying to solve any process problem with many variables being
> tweaked together only leads to more chaos unless by sheer luck you
> step in it and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant of the
> pile you started with.
>
> Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> Only later can you insert more toys and then just one at a time
> until you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause you to go back
> and tweak something else, but at least you have a starting point.
> When you go back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it doesn't do
> what yu want it to, then reset everything to where they were before
> proceeding.
>
> ....
>
> Phil
>
hey phil,
i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each string
plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no EQ
or nothin.
thanks for sticking with me !
neal
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> What does the guitar sound like plugged in directly
> - that is,
> completely un-colored and not amplified.
>
> More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> indistinct, as if they are
> not there to begin with.
>
> Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> guitar only on each
> string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
>
> Trying to solve any process problem with many
> variables being tweaked
> together only leads to more chaos unless by sheer
> luck you step in it
> and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant of
> the pile you started
> with.
>
> Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> Only later can you insert more toys and then just
> one at a time until
> you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause you to
> go back and twek
> something else, but at least you have a starting
> point. When you go
> back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it doesn't
> do what yu want it
> tp, then reset everything to where they were before
> proceeding.
>
> While the new sample sounds better, it's all about
> delay. The tone is
> not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> placid. In a mix, it
> will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not a
> strong sound. If it's
> not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going to
> get the best
> result.
>
> Phil
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
> > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
> > come at a better time, because your basically
> telling
> > me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing
> about
> > this last week.
> >
> > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> sample
> > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> behringer
> > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> >
> > I could not for the life of squeeze anything out
> of
> > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i
> had
> > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> POD,
> > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> when i
> > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
> > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> strummed
> > a chord it was all distortion because of the max
> > volume.
> >
> > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck
> the
> > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my
> new
> > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> >
> > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im
> know
> > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> particular
> > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill
> off
> > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no
> EQ,
> > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into
> a
> > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> >
> > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> recording
> > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> nose in
> > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> >
> > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
> > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
> > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie
> i
> > know that when i presented them the behringer vs
> > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less,
> im
> > seeing that it is crap.
> >
> > I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
> > which if your a home recorder, you should
> definitly
> > get )
> > anyway i recently bought their book of collection
> of
> > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM )
> and
> > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> sound
> > albums
> > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
> > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> gear, i
> > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> $150.
> >
> > what do would you say to someone presenting you
> with
> > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to
> buy
> > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where
> to
> > start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57
> ?
> > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have
> been
> > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> >
> > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> going to
> > get right to work on your suggestions.
> >
> > thanks WR !
> > neal
> >
> >
> > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
> > thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar,
> to
> > show me what it should sound like, and the gear
> you
> > use. that would probaly help me out.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Neal
> > >
> > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > sympathetic and
> > > interested in your problems. having said that,
> I'm
> > > for all practical
> > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > approach is 'from
> > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps
> > > should be taken with
> > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > experienced sound guru's
> > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to make?
> btw,
> > > best tip is at
> > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > >
> > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT,
> it
> > > seems to me that
> > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs
> are
> > > still a bit thin
> > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in
> just
> > > adding mush to
> > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> out,
> > > but the mushy lows
> > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have to
> check
> > > it in a mix
> > > though.
> > >
> > > i checked your recording line in the 'old' post,
> > > assume your still
> > > working with that gear. I noticed there is quite
> a
> > > lot there, and
> > > most if not all not professional level. Now, I
> work
> > > with the same
> > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> 'cheap'
> > > gear, will
> > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of
> thumb
> > > I use is "don't
> > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> really
> > > need it". and that
> > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out
> of
> > > the signal chain.
> > > Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm
> using
> > > the name
> > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> puts
> > > 'em down, but it
> > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I
> am
> > > impressed with
> > > what they can offer for little cash), they did a
> > > great job making
> > > recording stuff available for the masses, and
> you
> > > got to love that,
> > > and their stuff works pretty well, but still:
> they
> > > do have lesser
> > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a
> > > victim of
> > > inexperienced use, you have more cables, these
> > > things add to the risk
> > > that what your adding doesn't do what you want
> it
> > > to, and does do
> > > what you don't want it to do! that's at least my
> > > experience.
> > >
> > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> tweaked
> > > the moddeler's
> > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem be
> there?
> > > what kind is it?
> > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> pretty
> > > useless for guitar
> > > (workable for bass tho)
> > >
> > > have you thought about changing the moddeler for
> an
> > > amp and mic? And
> > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this:
> > > Tres Manos from
> > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded
> his
> > > guitar through a
> > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know,
> the
> > > ones that
> > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive
> > > sound! (and this is
> > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy
> a
> > > guitar a while ago,
> > > and I asked about it.)
> > >
> > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> recording.
> > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> they'll
> > > do more for your
> > > recording then any piece of equipment. I bought
> > > 'home recording for
> > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry
> level
> > > as it is, it
> > > helped me understand so much about what the F i
> was
> > > trying to do.
> > > maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
> > >
> > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going
> for
> > > those
> > > interested,
> > >
> > > WR
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Neal S."
> > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > >
> > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> > > better
> > > > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3
> in
> > > the
> > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let
> me
> > > know
> > > > if its more workable, or if i should go back
> to
> > > the
> > > > drawing board.
> > > >
> > > > thanks !
> > > >
> > > > neal
> > > >
> > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead
> and
> > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> Strings?
> > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > >
> > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no
> low
> > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and
> > > color).
> > > > >
> > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out
> making
> > > it
> > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually
> > > direct, I
> > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > the guitar is the problem, either strings or
> > > pickups
> > > > > or they was you
> > > > > set your controls. If by direct you don't
> mean
> > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> other
> > > time
> > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> Neptunas.
> > > With
> > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored version.
> This
> > > is
> > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your originals.
> Even
> > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > > > >
> > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > >
> > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples in
> the
> > > FILES
> > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder is
> > > called
> > > > >
> > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > >
> > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without
> the
> > > amp
> > > > > modeling
> > > > >
> > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ (
> > > that i
> > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre
> amp
> > > ( to
> > > > > match up impedence ) and a little reverb.
> Also
> > > they
> > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor, but
> with
> > > > > unity
> > > > > gain.
> > > > >
> > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and have
> just
> > > heard
> > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors. how
> do
> > > my
> > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on
> the
> > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or
> > > scratch
> > > > > both. and anything else you can think of.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > >
> > > > > neal
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > viturally of
> > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> just
> > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > > > > professional
> > > > > > recordin
> > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > .
> > > > > Visit
> > >
> > > > > for archived
> > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the
> web.
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > > email
> > > > > to:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> the
> > > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
> Make Yahoo! your home
> > page
> >
>
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit
> for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
I'm sure you can tell how much more definition and full-bodied the
sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier samples, especially the
low-E.
One of several things this means is that the problem is what's between
the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no color at all, just
cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an m-56 or m-57 mic and no
eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45 degrees to the center
of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very center, about 3 inches
away.
Then lets see (hear) what happens.
Phil
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> hey phil,
>
> i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each string
> plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no EQ
> or nothin.
>
> thanks for sticking with me !
>
> neal
>
> --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
>
> > What does the guitar sound like plugged in directly
> > - that is,
> > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> >
> > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > indistinct, as if they are
> > not there to begin with.
> >
> > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> > guitar only on each
> > string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
> >
> > Trying to solve any process problem with many
> > variables being tweaked
> > together only leads to more chaos unless by sheer
> > luck you step in it
> > and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant of
> > the pile you started
> > with.
> >
> > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > Only later can you insert more toys and then just
> > one at a time until
> > you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause you to
> > go back and twek
> > something else, but at least you have a starting
> > point. When you go
> > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it doesn't
> > do what yu want it
> > tp, then reset everything to where they were before
> > proceeding.
> >
> > While the new sample sounds better, it's all about
> > delay. The tone is
> > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> > placid. In a mix, it
> > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not a
> > strong sound. If it's
> > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going to
> > get the best
> > result.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> >
> > > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
> > > come at a better time, because your basically
> > telling
> > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing
> > about
> > > this last week.
> > >
> > > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> > sample
> > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> > behringer
> > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > >
> > > I could not for the life of squeeze anything out
> > of
> > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i
> > had
> > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> > POD,
> > > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> > when i
> > > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
> > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> > strummed
> > > a chord it was all distortion because of the max
> > > volume.
> > >
> > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck
> > the
> > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my
> > new
> > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > >
> > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im
> > know
> > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > particular
> > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill
> > off
> > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no
> > EQ,
> > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into
> > a
> > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > >
> > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > recording
> > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> > nose in
> > > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> > >
> > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
> > > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
> > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie
> > i
> > > know that when i presented them the behringer vs
> > > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less,
> > im
> > > seeing that it is crap.
> > >
> > > I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
> > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > definitly
> > > get )
> > > anyway i recently bought their book of collection
> > of
> > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM )
> > and
> > > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> > sound
> > > albums
> > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
> > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> > gear, i
> > > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> > $150.
> > >
> > > what do would you say to someone presenting you
> > with
> > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to
> > buy
> > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where
> > to
> > > start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57
> > ?
> > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have
> > been
> > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > >
> > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> > going to
> > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > >
> > > thanks WR !
> > > neal
> > >
> > >
> > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
> > > thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar,
> > to
> > > show me what it should sound like, and the gear
> > you
> > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Neal
> > > >
> > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > > sympathetic and
> > > > interested in your problems. having said that,
> > I'm
> > > > for all practical
> > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > > approach is 'from
> > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps
> > > > should be taken with
> > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to make?
> > btw,
> > > > best tip is at
> > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > >
> > > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT,
> > it
> > > > seems to me that
> > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs
> > are
> > > > still a bit thin
> > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in
> > just
> > > > adding mush to
> > > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> > out,
> > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have to
> > check
> > > > it in a mix
> > > > though.
> > > >
> > > > i checked your recording line in the 'old' post,
> > > > assume your still
> > > > working with that gear. I noticed there is quite
> > a
> > > > lot there, and
> > > > most if not all not professional level. Now, I
> > work
> > > > with the same
> > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> > 'cheap'
> > > > gear, will
> > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of
> > thumb
> > > > I use is "don't
> > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> > really
> > > > need it". and that
> > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out
> > of
> > > > the signal chain.
> > > > Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm
> > using
> > > > the name
> > > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> > puts
> > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I
> > am
> > > > impressed with
> > > > what they can offer for little cash), they did a
> > > > great job making
> > > > recording stuff available for the masses, and
> > you
> > > > got to love that,
> > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but still:
> > they
> > > > do have lesser
> > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a
> > > > victim of
> > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables, these
> > > > things add to the risk
> > > > that what your adding doesn't do what you want
> > it
> > > > to, and does do
> > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at least my
> > > > experience.
> > > >
> > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> > tweaked
> > > > the moddeler's
> > > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem be
> > there?
> > > > what kind is it?
> > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> > pretty
> > > > useless for guitar
> > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > >
> > > > have you thought about changing the moddeler for
> > an
> > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this:
> > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded
> > his
> > > > guitar through a
> > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know,
> > the
> > > > ones that
> > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive
> > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy
> > a
> > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > >
> > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > recording.
> > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> > they'll
> > > > do more for your
> > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I bought
> > > > 'home recording for
> > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry
> > level
> > > > as it is, it
> > > > helped me understand so much about what the F i
> > was
> > > > trying to do.
> > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
> > > >
> > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going
> > for
> > > > those
> > > > interested,
> > > >
> > > > WR
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In , "Neal S."
> > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > >
> > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> > > > better
> > > > > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let
> > me
> > > > know
> > > > > if its more workable, or if i should go back
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > drawing board.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks !
> > > > >
> > > > > neal
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead
> > and
> > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> > Strings?
> > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no
> > low
> > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and
> > > > color).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out
> > making
> > > > it
> > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually
> > > > direct, I
> > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either strings or
> > > > pickups
> > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you don't
> > mean
> > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > > problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> > other
> > > > time
> > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > Neptunas.
> > > > With
> > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored version.
> > This
> > > > is
> > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your originals.
> > Even
> > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phil
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples in
> > the
> > > > FILES
> > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder is
> > > > called
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without
> > the
> > > > amp
> > > > > > modeling
> > > > > >
> > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ (
> > > > that i
> > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre
> > amp
> > > > ( to
> > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little reverb.
> > Also
> > > > they
> > > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor, but
> > with
> > > > > > unity
> > > > > > gain.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and have
> > just
> > > > heard
> > > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors. how
> > do
> > > > my
> > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on
> > the
> > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or
> > > > scratch
> > > > > > both. and anything else you can think of.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> > just
> > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > Visit
> > > >
> > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the
> > web.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > > > email
> > > > > > to:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > the
> > > > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > > Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------~-->
> > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
> > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > page
> > >
> >
>
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > > Visit
> > for archived
> > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home
> page
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
and to add to Phil's (excellent)points.
- the problem also isn't in the soundcard/pc part, appearantly
- you might want to go back to the pod, it's a line6 right? are you
sure it's not a setting problem, or an impedance mismatch? I don't
have any experience with a pod, but so many people ar so enthusiastic
about it, and get WAY better results, that I'm curious why it doesn't
work properly in your case.
- I am VERY sceptical about a $10 mic, period, if it's the kind of
mic I suspect it is (if the store offers is in various colors, that
usually a clue ;-) than you might as well use an reversly connected
walkman headphone (my first mic!)... there are reasonbably priced
SM57 and SM58 copies on the market, Shure itself also has a budget
line, no experience with those though. In any case, if you have a
little spare cash, a decent mic is a very cool thing to own. my 2 cts
WR
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> I'm sure you can tell how much more definition and full-bodied the
> sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier samples, especially
the
> low-E.
>
> One of several things this means is that the problem is what's
between
> the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
>
> Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no color at all, just
> cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an m-56 or m-57 mic
and no
> eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45 degrees to the
center
> of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very center, about 3 inches
> away.
> Then lets see (hear) what happens.
>
> Phil
>
> --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
>
> > hey phil,
> >
> > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each string
> > plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no EQ
> > or nothin.
> >
> > thanks for sticking with me !
> >
> > neal
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> >
> > > What does the guitar sound like plugged in directly
> > > - that is,
> > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > >
> > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > not there to begin with.
> > >
> > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> > > guitar only on each
> > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
> > >
> > > Trying to solve any process problem with many
> > > variables being tweaked
> > > together only leads to more chaos unless by sheer
> > > luck you step in it
> > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant of
> > > the pile you started
> > > with.
> > >
> > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > Only later can you insert more toys and then just
> > > one at a time until
> > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause you to
> > > go back and twek
> > > something else, but at least you have a starting
> > > point. When you go
> > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it doesn't
> > > do what yu want it
> > > tp, then reset everything to where they were before
> > > proceeding.
> > >
> > > While the new sample sounds better, it's all about
> > > delay. The tone is
> > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not a
> > > strong sound. If it's
> > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going to
> > > get the best
> > > result.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
> > > > come at a better time, because your basically
> > > telling
> > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing
> > > about
> > > > this last week.
> > > >
> > > > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> > > sample
> > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> > > behringer
> > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > >
> > > > I could not for the life of squeeze anything out
> > > of
> > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i
> > > had
> > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> > > POD,
> > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> > > when i
> > > > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
> > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> > > strummed
> > > > a chord it was all distortion because of the max
> > > > volume.
> > > >
> > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck
> > > the
> > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my
> > > new
> > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > >
> > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im
> > > know
> > > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > > particular
> > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill
> > > off
> > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no
> > > EQ,
> > > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into
> > > a
> > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > >
> > > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > > recording
> > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> > > nose in
> > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> > > >
> > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
> > > > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
> > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie
> > > i
> > > > know that when i presented them the behringer vs
> > > > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less,
> > > im
> > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > >
> > > > I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
> > > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > > definitly
> > > > get )
> > > > anyway i recently bought their book of collection
> > > of
> > > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM )
> > > and
> > > > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> > > sound
> > > > albums
> > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
> > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> > > gear, i
> > > > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> > > $150.
> > > >
> > > > what do would you say to someone presenting you
> > > with
> > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to
> > > buy
> > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where
> > > to
> > > > start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57
> > > ?
> > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have
> > > been
> > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > >
> > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> > > going to
> > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > >
> > > > thanks WR !
> > > > neal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
> > > > thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar,
> > > to
> > > > show me what it should sound like, and the gear
> > > you
> > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- mono_tones_1 <rockverb@h...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > >
> > > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > interested in your problems. having said that,
> > > I'm
> > > > > for all practical
> > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps
> > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to make?
> > > btw,
> > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT,
> > > it
> > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs
> > > are
> > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in
> > > just
> > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> > > out,
> > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have to
> > > check
> > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > though.
> > > > >
> > > > > i checked your recording line in the 'old' post,
> > > > > assume your still
> > > > > working with that gear. I noticed there is quite
> > > a
> > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > most if not all not professional level. Now, I
> > > work
> > > > > with the same
> > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> > > 'cheap'
> > > > > gear, will
> > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of
> > > thumb
> > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> > > really
> > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out
> > > of
> > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm
> > > using
> > > > > the name
> > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> > > puts
> > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I
> > > am
> > > > > impressed with
> > > > > what they can offer for little cash), they did a
> > > > > great job making
> > > > > recording stuff available for the masses, and
> > > you
> > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but still:
> > > they
> > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a
> > > > > victim of
> > > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables, these
> > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > that what your adding doesn't do what you want
> > > it
> > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at least my
> > > > > experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> > > tweaked
> > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem be
> > > there?
> > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> > > pretty
> > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > >
> > > > > have you thought about changing the moddeler for
> > > an
> > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this:
> > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded
> > > his
> > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know,
> > > the
> > > > > ones that
> > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive
> > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy
> > > a
> > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > >
> > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > > recording.
> > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> > > they'll
> > > > > do more for your
> > > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I bought
> > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry
> > > level
> > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > helped me understand so much about what the F i
> > > was
> > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going
> > > for
> > > > > those
> > > > > interested,
> > > > >
> > > > > WR
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In , "Neal S."
> > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> > > > > better
> > > > > > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let
> > > me
> > > > > know
> > > > > > if its more workable, or if i should go back
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead
> > > and
> > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> > > Strings?
> > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no
> > > low
> > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and
> > > > > color).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out
> > > making
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually
> > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either strings or
> > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you don't
> > > mean
> > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > > > problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> > > other
> > > > > time
> > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > > Neptunas.
> > > > > With
> > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored version.
> > > This
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your originals.
> > > Even
> > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples in
> > > the
> > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder is
> > > > > called
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without
> > > the
> > > > > amp
> > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ (
> > > > > that i
> > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre
> > > amp
> > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little reverb.
> > > Also
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor, but
> > > with
> > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and have
> > > just
> > > > > heard
> > > > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors. how
> > > do
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on
> > > the
> > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or
> > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > both. and anything else you can think of.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> > > just
> > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > Visit
> > > > >
> > > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the
> > > web.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > > > > email
> > > > > > > to:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > the
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
> > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > page
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
~->
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > Visit
> > > for archived
> > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
home
> > page
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
~->
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
some thoughts inserted....
--- In , "Neal S." <memoryover@y...>
wrote:
>
> thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
> come at a better time, because your basically telling
> me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing about
> this last week.
I'd say my mail was about a week late, than... ;-)
>
> let me first tell you the signal chain of new sample
> 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the behringer
> eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
>
mic and amp the other way around I hope?
> I could not for the life of squeeze anything out of
> the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i had
> the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the POD,
> the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins. when i
> played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
> level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i strummed
> a chord it was all distortion because of the max
> volume.
if that's the case, there is very definately something fundamentally
wrong in the chain. come to think of it, was the pod connected to the
pre-amp (eurorack) in the right way? as in line-level out to line
level in, or mic level out to mic level in? (reading manuals is quite
handy sometimes too, in this respect)
sure you checked all your cables?
>
> so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck the
> amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my new
> saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
>
> Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im know
> theres still plenty of room for that. this particular
> sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill off
> axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no EQ,
> just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into a
> reverb standalone VST plug-in.
allready big improvement in the sound, exept for the lows as
discussed ... my bet is it's the mic, really.
>
> i just bought a book ! its callled "modern recording
> techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my nose in
> that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
>
> about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
> behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
> mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie i
> know that when i presented them the behringer vs
> mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less, im
> seeing that it is crap.
>
I didn't say it was crap! I have both compressors and preamps from
behringer and they work fine. they do what they need to do, but
unlike pro equipment, they suck tone. not much, but when you build a
whole line of slightly tonesucking equipment, well, that will suck a
lot, right? that was my only point: be glad it's affordable, use it
scarcely.
by the way, I didn't get the impression from what i saw and read that
mackie was pro equipment, more like a step up from behringer, rather
than a league up. but i honestly don't know for sure. as far as
schematics go - that doesn't mean to much, it's in the quality of
components and preamps more than in the schematic, i don't think
behringer uses the same preamps as mackie in their mixers. again, not
sure. no experience with mackie OR behringer mixers, just saw that
the behringer pre-amps get put down a lot on home-recording forums.
> I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
> which if your a home recorder, you should definitly
> get )
> anyway i recently bought their book of collection of
> articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM ) and
> it seems like almost everyone is geting great sound
> albums
> with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
> tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive gear, i
> mean i could go buy all that used for probaly $150.
> what do would you say to someone presenting you with
> this data?
I'd say, thanks for proving my point. a mic that is pretty much the
standard in home recording as well as used a lot in semi-pro studios.
Just one budget preamp and a four tracker. Short line, no BS, good
mic.
these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to buy
> a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where to
> start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57 ?
> Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have been
> heavily compared to the sm57/58.
>
don't know 'em at $7 I'd say buy the mofo and check it out! sceptical
tho.
the SM57 gets adviced because it's relativly cheap (outside nady-land
that is), its good quality and tone, and it has proven itself - you
know what you're gonna get. but 7 bucks is enough of a steal to get
wild and give it a try, imo.
behringer has one channel preamps that are functional, and sound
reasonably well for the money. they sound better then most low-end
mixer preamps in any case. The ART's I don't know, but I guess they
are comparable, likely even better.
> finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im going to
> get right to work on your suggestions.
>
well, all this discussion is about working with an allready half
decent sound - your samples so far to my ears suggest there is
somewhere in the line a major flaw. not so much something that needs
improved, but something that needs repaired.
most likely suspects in my mind: $10 mic and a line/mic mismatch with
the pod.
with a decent mic and what you have already got you should come a
long way. - the behringer mixer's preamp should get way better
results than what you've got so far, with a decent mic.
btw, if you have friends with mackies, sure you have friends with
sm57's that'll lend you one for a night to check out and see what it
yields?
It'll be a while before i can record again, but in the meantime,
check out our website songs (recorded semi live, don't remember the
exact set up but guitars where close miced in any case. too much
afterwards reverb from the vs880 internal processor too.
on my contribution on the comp, if you have it somewhere, it was the
same thing but everything recorded seperatly. just mic into the vs880
and then some mixing and overall reverb added afterwards.
both times, for guitars we used samson SM58 copies. as i said, i'm
all about budget gear ;-)
so, when this done, we start on how to record bass, yes? ;-)
WR
> thanks WR !
> neal
>
>
> PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
> thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar, to
> show me what it should sound like, and the gear you
> use. that would probaly help me out.
>
>
phil,
i do notice that it sounds better. However, check this
out. With the exact same set up im going to strum
chords. DO you think the bottem end is disapearing
like it did before when i play chords ? it seems to
me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what do you
think ?
file is direct2.mp3
btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have one within
a couple days, ill post the samples as soon as i get
it !
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> I'm sure you can tell how much more definition and
> full-bodied the
> sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier
> samples, especially the
> low-E.
>
> One of several things this means is that the problem
> is what's between
> the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
>
> Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no
> color at all, just
> cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an m-56
> or m-57 mic and no
> eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45
> degrees to the center
> of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very center,
> about 3 inches
> away.
> Then lets see (hear) what happens.
>
> Phil
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
> > hey phil,
> >
> > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each
> string
> > plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no
> EQ
> > or nothin.
> >
> > thanks for sticking with me !
> >
> > neal
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> >
> > > What does the guitar sound like plugged in
> directly
> > > - that is,
> > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > >
> > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > not there to begin with.
> > >
> > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> > > guitar only on each
> > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
> > >
> > > Trying to solve any process problem with many
> > > variables being tweaked
> > > together only leads to more chaos unless by
> sheer
> > > luck you step in it
> > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant
> of
> > > the pile you started
> > > with.
> > >
> > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > Only later can you insert more toys and then
> just
> > > one at a time until
> > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause
> you to
> > > go back and twek
> > > something else, but at least you have a starting
> > > point. When you go
> > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it
> doesn't
> > > do what yu want it
> > > tp, then reset everything to where they were
> before
> > > proceeding.
> > >
> > > While the new sample sounds better, it's all
> about
> > > delay. The tone is
> > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not
> a
> > > strong sound. If it's
> > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going
> to
> > > get the best
> > > result.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt
> have
> > > > come at a better time, because your basically
> > > telling
> > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly
> realizing
> > > about
> > > > this last week.
> > > >
> > > > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> > > sample
> > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> > > behringer
> > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > >
> > > > I could not for the life of squeeze anything
> out
> > > of
> > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but
> i
> > > had
> > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> > > POD,
> > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> > > when i
> > > > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense'
> and
> > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> > > strummed
> > > > a chord it was all distortion because of the
> max
> > > > volume.
> > > >
> > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and
> stuck
> > > the
> > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes
> ). my
> > > new
> > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > >
> > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so
> im
> > > know
> > > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > > particular
> > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the
> grill
> > > off
> > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer.
> no
> > > EQ,
> > > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also
> into
> > > a
> > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > >
> > > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > > recording
> > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> > > nose in
> > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> > > >
> > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought
> the
> > > > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics
> from
> > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use
> mackie
> > > i
> > > > know that when i presented them the behringer
> vs
> > > > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the
> less,
> > > im
> > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > >
> > > > I subscribe to this free magazine called
> tapeop (
> > > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > > definitly
> > > > get )
> > > > anyway i recently bought their book of
> collection
> > > of
> > > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM
> )
> > > and
> > > > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> > > sound
> > > > albums
> > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp,
> and a
> > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> > > gear, i
> > > > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> > > $150.
> > > >
> > > > what do would you say to someone presenting
> you
> > > with
> > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been
> looking to
> > > buy
> > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or
> where
> > > to
> > > > start. ive also am going to replace the mic,
> sm57
> > > ?
> > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that
> have
> > > been
> > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > >
> > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> > > going to
> > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > >
> > > > thanks WR !
> > > > neal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to
> send me
> > > > thier own sample of just a home recorded
> guitar,
> > > to
> > > > show me what it should sound like, and the
> gear
> > > you
> > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > >
> > > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > interested in your problems. having said
> that,
> > > I'm
> > > > > for all practical
> > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and
> perhaps
> > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to
> make?
> > > btw,
> > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed,
> BUT,
> > > it
> > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the
> highs
> > > are
> > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result
> in
> > > just
> > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> > > out,
> > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have
> to
> > > check
> > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > though.
> > > > >
> > > > > i checked your recording line in the 'old'
> post,
> > > > > assume your still
> > > > > working with that gear. I noticed there is
> quite
> > > a
> > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > most if not all not professional level. Now,
> I
> > > work
> > > > > with the same
> > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> > > 'cheap'
> > > > > gear, will
> > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule
> of
> > > thumb
> > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> > > really
> > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it
> out
> > > of
> > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > Not to put behringer or any company down
> (I'm
> > > using
> > > > > the name
> > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> > > puts
> > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite
> frankly, I
> > > am
> > > > > impressed with
> > > > > what they can offer for little cash), they
> did a
> > > > > great job making
> > > > > recording stuff available for the masses,
> and
> > > you
> > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but
> still:
> > > they
> > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely
> be a
> > > > > victim of
> > > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables,
> these
> > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > that what your adding doesn't do what you
> want
> > > it
> > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at
> least my
> > > > > experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> > > tweaked
> > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem
> be
> > > there?
> > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> > > pretty
> > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > >
> > > > > have you thought about changing the moddeler
> for
> > > an
> > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get
> this:
> > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad
> recorded
> > > his
> > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you
> know,
> > > the
> > > > > ones that
> > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front -
> massive
> > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the
> guy
> > > a
> > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > >
> > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > > recording.
> > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> > > they'll
> > > > > do more for your
> > > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I
> bought
> > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and
> entry
> > > level
> > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > helped me understand so much about what the
> F i
> > > was
> > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for
> books.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread
> going
> > > for
> > > > > those
> > > > > interested,
> > > > >
> > > > > WR
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In , "Neal
> S."
> > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain
> a
> > > > > better
> > > > > > tone ! can you please check out
> sample9b.mp3
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ?
> let
> > > me
> > > > > know
> > > > > > if its more workable, or if i should go
> back
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really
> dead
> > > and
> > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> > > Strings?
> > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost
> no
> > > low
> > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics
> and
> > > > > color).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed
> out
> > > making
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > rich requires solving the problem with
> the
> > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was
> virtually
> > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either
> strings or
> > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you
> don't
> > > mean
> > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > > > problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> > > other
> > > > > time
> > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > > Neptunas.
> > > > > With
> > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored
> version.
> > > This
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your
> originals.
> > > Even
> > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples
> in
> > > the
> > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder
> is
> > > > > called
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab
> modeling.
> > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI
> without
> > > the
> > > > > amp
> > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some
> EQ (
> > > > > that i
> > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a
> pre
> > > amp
> > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little
> reverb.
> > > Also
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor,
> but
> > > with
> > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and
> have
> > > just
> > > > > heard
> > > > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors.
> how
> > > do
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i
> work on
> > > the
> > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound.
> or
> > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > both. and anything else you can think
> of.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> > > just
> > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to
> more
> > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting
> them
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > Visit
> > > > >
> > > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on
> the
> > > web.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send
> an
> > > > > email
> > > > > > > to:
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo!
> Groups.
> > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > page
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > Visit
>
> > > for archived
> > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
> Make Yahoo! your home
> > page
> >
>
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit
> for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it is just part of the
spectrum. What are you listening on? What kind of amp and monitors or
headphones?
Phil
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> phil,
>
> i do notice that it sounds better. However, check this
> out. With the exact same set up im going to strum
> chords. DO you think the bottem end is disapearing
> like it did before when i play chords ? it seems to
> me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what do you
> think ?
>
> file is direct2.mp3
>
> btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have one within
> a couple days, ill post the samples as soon as i get
> it !
>
>
> --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
>
> > I'm sure you can tell how much more definition and
> > full-bodied the
> > sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier
> > samples, especially the
> > low-E.
> >
> > One of several things this means is that the problem
> > is what's between
> > the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
> >
> > Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no
> > color at all, just
> > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an m-56
> > or m-57 mic and no
> > eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45
> > degrees to the center
> > of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very center,
> > about 3 inches
> > away.
> > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> >
> > > hey phil,
> > >
> > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each
> > string
> > > plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no
> > EQ
> > > or nothin.
> > >
> > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > >
> > > neal
> > >
> > > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > What does the guitar sound like plugged in
> > directly
> > > > - that is,
> > > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > > >
> > > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > not there to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> > > > guitar only on each
> > > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
> > > >
> > > > Trying to solve any process problem with many
> > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > together only leads to more chaos unless by
> > sheer
> > > > luck you step in it
> > > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant
> > of
> > > > the pile you started
> > > > with.
> > > >
> > > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > > Only later can you insert more toys and then
> > just
> > > > one at a time until
> > > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause
> > you to
> > > > go back and twek
> > > > something else, but at least you have a starting
> > > > point. When you go
> > > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it
> > doesn't
> > > > do what yu want it
> > > > tp, then reset everything to where they were
> > before
> > > > proceeding.
> > > >
> > > > While the new sample sounds better, it's all
> > about
> > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not
> > a
> > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going
> > to
> > > > get the best
> > > > result.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt
> > have
> > > > > come at a better time, because your basically
> > > > telling
> > > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly
> > realizing
> > > > about
> > > > > this last week.
> > > > >
> > > > > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> > > > sample
> > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> > > > behringer
> > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > > >
> > > > > I could not for the life of squeeze anything
> > out
> > > > of
> > > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but
> > i
> > > > had
> > > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> > > > POD,
> > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> > > > when i
> > > > > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense'
> > and
> > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> > > > strummed
> > > > > a chord it was all distortion because of the
> > max
> > > > > volume.
> > > > >
> > > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and
> > stuck
> > > > the
> > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes
> > ). my
> > > > new
> > > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > > >
> > > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so
> > im
> > > > know
> > > > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > > > particular
> > > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the
> > grill
> > > > off
> > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer.
> > no
> > > > EQ,
> > > > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also
> > into
> > > > a
> > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > >
> > > > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > > > recording
> > > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> > > > nose in
> > > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> > > > >
> > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought
> > the
> > > > > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics
> > from
> > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use
> > mackie
> > > > i
> > > > > know that when i presented them the behringer
> > vs
> > > > > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the
> > less,
> > > > im
> > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > >
> > > > > I subscribe to this free magazine called
> > tapeop (
> > > > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > > > definitly
> > > > > get )
> > > > > anyway i recently bought their book of
> > collection
> > > > of
> > > > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM
> > )
> > > > and
> > > > > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> > > > sound
> > > > > albums
> > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp,
> > and a
> > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> > > > gear, i
> > > > > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> > > > $150.
> > > > >
> > > > > what do would you say to someone presenting
> > you
> > > > with
> > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been
> > looking to
> > > > buy
> > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or
> > where
> > > > to
> > > > > start. ive also am going to replace the mic,
> > sm57
> > > > ?
> > > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that
> > have
> > > > been
> > > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > > >
> > > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> > > > going to
> > > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > neal
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to
> > send me
> > > > > thier own sample of just a home recorded
> > guitar,
> > > > to
> > > > > show me what it should sound like, and the
> > gear
> > > > you
> > > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > interested in your problems. having said
> > that,
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and
> > perhaps
> > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to
> > make?
> > > > btw,
> > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed,
> > BUT,
> > > > it
> > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the
> > highs
> > > > are
> > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result
> > in
> > > > just
> > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> > > > out,
> > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have
> > to
> > > > check
> > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i checked your recording line in the 'old'
> > post,
> > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > working with that gear. I noticed there is
> > quite
> > > > a
> > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > most if not all not professional level. Now,
> > I
> > > > work
> > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule
> > of
> > > > thumb
> > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> > > > really
> > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it
> > out
> > > > of
> > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > Not to put behringer or any company down
> > (I'm
> > > > using
> > > > > > the name
> > > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> > > > puts
> > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite
> > frankly, I
> > > > am
> > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > what they can offer for little cash), they
> > did a
> > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > recording stuff available for the masses,
> > and
> > > > you
> > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but
> > still:
> > > > they
> > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely
> > be a
> > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables,
> > these
> > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > that what your adding doesn't do what you
> > want
> > > > it
> > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at
> > least my
> > > > > > experience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> > > > tweaked
> > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem
> > be
> > > > there?
> > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> > > > pretty
> > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > have you thought about changing the moddeler
> > for
> > > > an
> > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get
> > this:
> > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad
> > recorded
> > > > his
> > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you
> > know,
> > > > the
> > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front -
> > massive
> > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the
> > guy
> > > > a
> > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > > > recording.
> > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> > > > they'll
> > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I
> > bought
> > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and
> > entry
> > > > level
> > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > helped me understand so much about what the
> > F i
> > > > was
> > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for
> > books.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread
> > going
> > > > for
> > > > > > those
> > > > > > interested,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WR
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In , "Neal
> > S."
> > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain
> > a
> > > > > > better
> > > > > > > tone ! can you please check out
> > sample9b.mp3
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ?
> > let
> > > > me
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > if its more workable, or if i should go
> > back
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really
> > dead
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost
> > no
> > > > low
> > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics
> > and
> > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed
> > out
> > > > making
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > rich requires solving the problem with
> > the
> > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was
> > virtually
> > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either
> > strings or
> > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you
> > don't
> > > > mean
> > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> > > > other
> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored
> > version.
> > > > This
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your
> > originals.
> > > > Even
> > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder
> > is
> > > > > > called
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab
> > modeling.
> > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI
> > without
> > > > the
> > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some
> > EQ (
> > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a
> > pre
> > > > amp
> > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little
> > reverb.
> > > > Also
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor,
> > but
> > > > with
> > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and
> > have
> > > > just
> > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors.
> > how
> > > > do
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i
> > work on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound.
> > or
> > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > both. and anything else you can think
> > of.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> > > > just
> > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to
> > more
> > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting
> > them
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > Visit
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on
> > the
> > > > web.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send
> > an
> > > > > > email
> > > > > > > > to:
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo!
> > Groups.
> > > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > > page
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > .
> > > > > Visit
> >
> > > > for archived
> > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------~-->
> > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
> > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > page
> > >
> >
>
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > > Visit
> > for archived
> > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home
> page
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
attached to the out of my soundcard are yorkville
nearfields. there active and bi-amped. Everything i do
on them sounds awesome. the clarity and seperation is
amazing ( to me ) even when it comes out of the
preamp, POD, amp whatever. Even headphones my guitar
sounds pretty good. for example, the first sample
(samp1) i sent you, sounds good on my nearfields ! (
am i tone def ) ?
Its whenever i take my stuff to my stereo or boombox,
it sounds distant and muddy.
my stereo is a newer rotel preamp, rotel power amp, to
2 older NHT 2.5i speakers and matched sub. cds sound
awesome in it ! ( pro cds, not mine ) Although
direct2.mp3 sounded pretty good on it, but a little
muddy.
maybe i dont know how to correctly judge my
nearfields. but if you say that direct2 is a good
sample and should be what a guitar should sound like
direct, im gonna do some listening comparisions. and
as soon as i get my sm57 im gonna do exactly what you
said and post that.
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it is just
> part of the
> spectrum. What are you listening on? What kind of
> amp and monitors or
> headphones?
>
> Phil
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
> > phil,
> >
> > i do notice that it sounds better. However, check
> this
> > out. With the exact same set up im going to strum
> > chords. DO you think the bottem end is disapearing
> > like it did before when i play chords ? it seems
> to
> > me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what do you
> > think ?
> >
> > file is direct2.mp3
> >
> > btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have one
> within
> > a couple days, ill post the samples as soon as i
> get
> > it !
> >
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm sure you can tell how much more definition
> and
> > > full-bodied the
> > > sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier
> > > samples, especially the
> > > low-E.
> > >
> > > One of several things this means is that the
> problem
> > > is what's between
> > > the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
> > >
> > > Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no
> > > color at all, just
> > > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an
> m-56
> > > or m-57 mic and no
> > > eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45
> > > degrees to the center
> > > of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very
> center,
> > > about 3 inches
> > > away.
> > > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > hey phil,
> > > >
> > > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each
> > > string
> > > > plucked and sustained, straight into the
> board, no
> > > EQ
> > > > or nothin.
> > > >
> > > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > > >
> > > > neal
> > > >
> > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What does the guitar sound like plugged in
> > > directly
> > > > > - that is,
> > > > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > > > >
> > > > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > > not there to begin with.
> > > > >
> > > > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from
> the
> > > > > guitar only on each
> > > > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that
> sample.
> > > > >
> > > > > Trying to solve any process problem with
> many
> > > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > > together only leads to more chaos unless by
> > > sheer
> > > > > luck you step in it
> > > > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a
> variant
> > > of
> > > > > the pile you started
> > > > > with.
> > > > >
> > > > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > > > Only later can you insert more toys and then
> > > just
> > > > > one at a time until
> > > > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may
> cause
> > > you to
> > > > > go back and twek
> > > > > something else, but at least you have a
> starting
> > > > > point. When you go
> > > > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it
> > > doesn't
> > > > > do what yu want it
> > > > > tp, then reset everything to where they were
> > > before
> > > > > proceeding.
> > > > >
> > > > > While the new sample sounds better, it's all
> > > about
> > > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and
> it's
> > > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly
> not
> > > a
> > > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not
> going
> > > to
> > > > > get the best
> > > > > result.
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > > > >
> > > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email,
> couldnt
> > > have
> > > > > > come at a better time, because your
> basically
> > > > > telling
> > > > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly
> > > realizing
> > > > > about
> > > > > > this last week.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > let me first tell you the signal chain of
> new
> > > > > sample
> > > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) >
> the
> > > > > behringer
> > > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I could not for the life of squeeze
> anything
> > > out
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample,
> but
> > > i
> > > > > had
> > > > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max,
> the
> > > > > POD,
> > > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module
> plugins.
> > > > > when i
> > > > > > played quietly it sounded about the
> 'presense'
> > > and
> > > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however
> when i
> > > > > strummed
> > > > > > a chord it was all distortion because of
> the
> > > max
> > > > > > volume.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and
> > > stuck
> > > > > the
> > > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with
> clothes
> > > ). my
> > > > > new
> > > > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an
> amp, so
> > > im
> > > > > know
> > > > > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > > > > particular
> > > > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from
> the
> > > grill
> > > > > off
> > > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the
> mixer.
> > > no
> > > > > EQ,
> > > > > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp.
> also
> > > into
> > > > > a
> > > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > > > > recording
> > > > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i
> got my
> > > > > nose in
> > > > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here
> first.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i
> bought
> > > the
> > > > > > behringer, cause well, they steal
> schematics
> > > from
> > > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use
> > > mackie
> > > > > i
> > > > > > know that when i presented them the
> behringer
> > > vs
> > > > > > mackie argument, they were only fighting
> my in
> > > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none
> the
> > > less,
> > > > > im
> > > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I subscribe to this free magazine called
> > > tapeop (
> > > > > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > > > > definitly
> > > > > > get )
> > > > > > anyway i recently bought their book of
> > > collection
> > > > > of
> > > > > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd
> MOAM
> > > )
> > > > > and
> > > > > > it seems like almost everyone is geting
> great
> > > > > sound
> > > > > > albums
> > > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic
> amp,
> > > and a
> > > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt
> expensive
> > > > > gear, i
> > > > > > mean i could go buy all that used for
> probaly
> > > > > $150.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what do would you say to someone
> presenting
> > > you
> > > > > with
> > > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been
> > > looking to
> > > > > buy
> > > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get
> or
> > > where
> > > > > to
> > > > > > start. ive also am going to replace the
> mic,
> > > sm57
> > > > > ?
> > > > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$
> that
> > > have
> > > > > been
> > > > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice.
> im
> > > > > going to
> > > > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > > neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to
> > > send me
> > > > > > thier own sample of just a home recorded
> > > guitar,
> > > > > to
> > > > > > show me what it should sound like, and the
> > > gear
> > > > > you
> > > > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- mono_tones_1 <>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm
> both
> > > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > > interested in your problems. having said
> > > that,
> > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are,
> and my
> > > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and
> > > perhaps
> > > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the
> more
> > > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to
> > > make?
> > > > > btw,
> > > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > your new sample sound a lot better
> indeed,
> > > BUT,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the
> > > highs
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might
> result
> > > in
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > > mix, because the well defined lows will
> come
> > > > > out,
> > > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd
> have
> > > to
> > > > > check
> > > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i checked your recording line in the
> 'old'
> > > post,
> > > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > > working with that gear. I noticed there
> is
> > > quite
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > > most if not all not professional level.
> Now,
> > > I
> > > > > work
> > > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that
> adding
> > > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt
> rule
> > > of
> > > > > thumb
> > > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till
> you
> > > > > really
> > > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get
> it
> > > out
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > > Not to put behringer or any company down
> > > (I'm
> > > > > using
> > > > > > > the name
> > > > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause
> everyone
> > > > > puts
> > > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite
> > > frankly, I
> > > > > am
> > > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > > what they can offer for little cash),
> they
> > > did a
> > > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > > recording stuff available for the
> masses,
> > > and
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but
> > > still:
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll
> likely
> > > be a
> > > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables,
> > > these
> > > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > > that what your adding doesn't do what
> you
> > > want
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at
> > > least my
> > > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have
> you
> > > > > tweaked
> > > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the
> problem
> > > be
> > > > > there?
> > > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and
> it's
> > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > have you thought about changing the
> moddeler
> > > for
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours',
> get
> > > this:
> > > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad
> > > recorded
> > > > > his
> > > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall -
> you
> > > know,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front -
> > > massive
> > > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold
> the
> > > guy
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > > > > recording.
> > > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs,
> and
> > > > > they'll
> > > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I
> > > bought
> > > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and
> > > entry
> > > > > level
> > > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > > helped me understand so much about what
> the
> > > F i
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for
> > > books.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this
> thread
> > > going
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > interested,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WR
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In ,
> "Neal
> > > S."
> > > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to
> obtain
> > > a
> > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > tone ! can you please check out
> > > sample9b.mp3
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files
> section ?
> > > let
> > > > > me
> > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > if its more workable, or if i should
> go
> > > back
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a
> really
> > > dead
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > > word that comes to mind is
> "brittle."
> > > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have
> almost
> > > no
> > > > > low
> > > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all
> (harmonics
> > > and
> > > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb
> pointed
> > > out
> > > > > making
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > > rich requires solving the problem
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was
> > > virtually
> > > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either
> > > strings or
> > > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you
> > > don't
> > > > > mean
> > > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be
> the
> > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The
> only
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored
> > > version.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your
> > > originals.
> > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef
> here.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2
> samples
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the
> folder
> > > is
> > > > > > > called
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab
> > > modeling.
> > > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI
> > > without
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat,
> some
> > > EQ (
> > > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer
> as a
> > > pre
> > > > > amp
> > > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little
> > > reverb.
> > > > > Also
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > were run through a tube amp
> compressor,
> > > but
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and
> > > have
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > > the guitar coming through the
> monitors.
> > > how
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i
> > > work on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI
> sound.
> > > or
> > > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > > both. and anything else you can
> think
> > > of.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of
> these,
> > > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick
> riffs of
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare
> to
> > > more
> > > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > > gs and how you might go about
> adjusting
> > > them
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > Visit
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls,
> etc.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101"
> on
> > > the
> > > > > web.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group,
> send
> > > an
> > > > > > > email
> > > > > > > > > to:
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
> subject
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
> Sponsor
> > > > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo!
> > > Groups.
> > > > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > > > page
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > Visit
> > >
> > > > > for archived
> > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo!
> Groups.
> > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > page
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > Visit
>
> > > for archived
> > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
> Make Yahoo! your home
> > page
> >
>
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit
> for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
So I haven't really followed this whole thread, but I did some recording using
amp
simulation. It was all I had at the time, so its simple ease of use allowed me
to easily lay
down some tracks that really only existed in my head or on paper. Had to do
lots of
mucking with the eq to get the presence up which did result in a more distorted
guitar
sound. I never did like it, but it was all I had at the time though so it
served its purpose. I
now use a mic SM-57 and pre-amp and am much less embarassed by the sound.
Here is a link to a recording school or something that has lots of info, not
home recording
specifically though.
I recorded this at home yesterday..
I'm gonna look into that Joe Meek book that Klas suggested. Lately, I've found
myself
messing around with all the compressors and processsers plug-ins.
joe
mp3's are muddy by definition, which is why Apple went to m4a. How are
you outputting to your stereo? If it all goes south when you plug into
your stereo, then you likely have an impedence mismatch.
I know you are familiar with the sound of your stereo and headphones,
but using anything other than professional studio monitors and
professional studio headphones (I use AKG K-240S, about $125 and good
enough to mix with, once you learn the difference between open air
sound and headphones) gives you a distorted representation of the
sound. Without your guitar in a band mix, you don't have much to
compare with. Not a lot of solo guitar surf out there.
Also, I did not say the guitar sounds good, but it does sound well
within a workable range.
As an aside, when you're thinking about surf guitar sound, and
particularly if your among the admirers of the great sound Richie
Podolor got back in the day, you should know that he did not use an
amp. He plugged into the board directly and used an acoustic chamber
for reverb. Not that you can do that live, but everything beyond the
guitar should add to it, not detract.
Phil
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> attached to the out of my soundcard are yorkville
> nearfields. there active and bi-amped. Everything i do
> on them sounds awesome. the clarity and seperation is
> amazing ( to me ) even when it comes out of the
> preamp, POD, amp whatever. Even headphones my guitar
> sounds pretty good. for example, the first sample
> (samp1) i sent you, sounds good on my nearfields ! (
> am i tone def ) ?
>
> Its whenever i take my stuff to my stereo or boombox,
> it sounds distant and muddy.
>
> my stereo is a newer rotel preamp, rotel power amp, to
> 2 older NHT 2.5i speakers and matched sub. cds sound
> awesome in it ! ( pro cds, not mine ) Although
> direct2.mp3 sounded pretty good on it, but a little
> muddy.
>
> maybe i dont know how to correctly judge my
> nearfields. but if you say that direct2 is a good
> sample and should be what a guitar should sound like
> direct, im gonna do some listening comparisions. and
> as soon as i get my sm57 im gonna do exactly what you
> said and post that.
>
> --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
>
> > No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it is just
> > part of the
> > spectrum. What are you listening on? What kind of
> > amp and monitors or
> > headphones?
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> >
> > > phil,
> > >
> > > i do notice that it sounds better. However, check
> > this
> > > out. With the exact same set up im going to strum
> > > chords. DO you think the bottem end is disapearing
> > > like it did before when i play chords ? it seems
> > to
> > > me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what do you
> > > think ?
> > >
> > > file is direct2.mp3
> > >
> > > btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have one
> > within
> > > a couple days, ill post the samples as soon as i
> > get
> > > it !
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm sure you can tell how much more definition
> > and
> > > > full-bodied the
> > > > sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier
> > > > samples, especially the
> > > > low-E.
> > > >
> > > > One of several things this means is that the
> > problem
> > > > is what's between
> > > > the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
> > > >
> > > > Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no
> > > > color at all, just
> > > > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an
> > m-56
> > > > or m-57 mic and no
> > > > eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45
> > > > degrees to the center
> > > > of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very
> > center,
> > > > about 3 inches
> > > > away.
> > > > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > hey phil,
> > > > >
> > > > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each
> > > > string
> > > > > plucked and sustained, straight into the
> > board, no
> > > > EQ
> > > > > or nothin.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > > > >
> > > > > neal
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > What does the guitar sound like plugged in
> > > > directly
> > > > > > - that is,
> > > > > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > > > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > > > not there to begin with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from
> > the
> > > > > > guitar only on each
> > > > > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that
> > sample.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Trying to solve any process problem with
> > many
> > > > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > > > together only leads to more chaos unless by
> > > > sheer
> > > > > > luck you step in it
> > > > > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a
> > variant
> > > > of
> > > > > > the pile you started
> > > > > > with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > > > > Only later can you insert more toys and then
> > > > just
> > > > > > one at a time until
> > > > > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may
> > cause
> > > > you to
> > > > > > go back and twek
> > > > > > something else, but at least you have a
> > starting
> > > > > > point. When you go
> > > > > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > do what yu want it
> > > > > > tp, then reset everything to where they were
> > > > before
> > > > > > proceeding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While the new sample sounds better, it's all
> > > > about
> > > > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and
> > it's
> > > > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > > > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly
> > not
> > > > a
> > > > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not
> > going
> > > > to
> > > > > > get the best
> > > > > > result.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phil
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email,
> > couldnt
> > > > have
> > > > > > > come at a better time, because your
> > basically
> > > > > > telling
> > > > > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly
> > > > realizing
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > this last week.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > let me first tell you the signal chain of
> > new
> > > > > > sample
> > > > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) >
> > the
> > > > > > behringer
> > > > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I could not for the life of squeeze
> > anything
> > > > out
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample,
> > but
> > > > i
> > > > > > had
> > > > > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max,
> > the
> > > > > > POD,
> > > > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module
> > plugins.
> > > > > > when i
> > > > > > > played quietly it sounded about the
> > 'presense'
> > > > and
> > > > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however
> > when i
> > > > > > strummed
> > > > > > > a chord it was all distortion because of
> > the
> > > > max
> > > > > > > volume.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and
> > > > stuck
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with
> > clothes
> > > > ). my
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an
> > amp, so
> > > > im
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > > > > > particular
> > > > > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from
> > the
> > > > grill
> > > > > > off
> > > > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the
> > mixer.
> > > > no
> > > > > > EQ,
> > > > > > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp.
> > also
> > > > into
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > > > > > recording
> > > > > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i
> > got my
> > > > > > nose in
> > > > > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here
> > first.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i
> > bought
> > > > the
> > > > > > > behringer, cause well, they steal
> > schematics
> > > > from
> > > > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use
> > > > mackie
> > > > > > i
> > > > > > > know that when i presented them the
> > behringer
> > > > vs
> > > > > > > mackie argument, they were only fighting
> > my in
> > > > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none
> > the
> > > > less,
> > > > > > im
> > > > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I subscribe to this free magazine called
> > > > tapeop (
> > > > > > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > > > > > definitly
> > > > > > > get )
> > > > > > > anyway i recently bought their book of
> > > > collection
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd
> > MOAM
> > > > )
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > it seems like almost everyone is geting
> > great
> > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > albums
> > > > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic
> > amp,
> > > > and a
> > > > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt
> > expensive
> > > > > > gear, i
> > > > > > > mean i could go buy all that used for
> > probaly
> > > > > > $150.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > what do would you say to someone
> > presenting
> > > > you
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been
> > > > looking to
> > > > > > buy
> > > > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get
> > or
> > > > where
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > start. ive also am going to replace the
> > mic,
> > > > sm57
> > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$
> > that
> > > > have
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice.
> > im
> > > > > > going to
> > > > > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to
> > > > send me
> > > > > > > thier own sample of just a home recorded
> > > > guitar,
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > show me what it should sound like, and the
> > > > gear
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- mono_tones_1 <>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm
> > both
> > > > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > > > interested in your problems. having said
> > > > that,
> > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are,
> > and my
> > > > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and
> > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the
> > more
> > > > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to
> > > > make?
> > > > > > btw,
> > > > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > your new sample sound a lot better
> > indeed,
> > > > BUT,
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the
> > > > highs
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might
> > result
> > > > in
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > > > mix, because the well defined lows will
> > come
> > > > > > out,
> > > > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > > check
> > > > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i checked your recording line in the
> > 'old'
> > > > post,
> > > > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > > > working with that gear. I noticed there
> > is
> > > > quite
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > > > most if not all not professional level.
> > Now,
> > > > I
> > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that
> > adding
> > > > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt
> > rule
> > > > of
> > > > > > thumb
> > > > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till
> > you
> > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get
> > it
> > > > out
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > > > Not to put behringer or any company down
> > > > (I'm
> > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > the name
> > > > > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause
> > everyone
> > > > > > puts
> > > > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite
> > > > frankly, I
> > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > > > what they can offer for little cash),
> > they
> > > > did a
> > > > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > > > recording stuff available for the
> > masses,
> > > > and
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but
> > > > still:
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll
> > likely
> > > > be a
> > > > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables,
> > > > these
> > > > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > > > that what your adding doesn't do what
> > you
> > > > want
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at
> > > > least my
> > > > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have
> > you
> > > > > > tweaked
> > > > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the
> > problem
> > > > be
> > > > > > there?
> > > > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and
> > it's
> > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > have you thought about changing the
> > moddeler
> > > > for
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours',
> > get
> > > > this:
> > > > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad
> > > > recorded
> > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall -
> > you
> > > > know,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front -
> > > > massive
> > > > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold
> > the
> > > > guy
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > > > > > recording.
> > > > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs,
> > and
> > > > > > they'll
> > > > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I
> > > > bought
> > > > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and
> > > > entry
> > > > > > level
> > > > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > > > helped me understand so much about what
> > the
> > > > F i
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for
> > > > books.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this
> > thread
> > > > going
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > interested,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > WR
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In ,
> > "Neal
> > > > S."
> > > > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to
> > obtain
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > tone ! can you please check out
> > > > sample9b.mp3
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files
> > section ?
> > > > let
> > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > if its more workable, or if i should
> > go
> > > > back
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a
> > really
> > > > dead
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > > > word that comes to mind is
> > "brittle."
> > > > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have
> > almost
> > > > no
> > > > > > low
> > > > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all
> > (harmonics
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb
> > pointed
> > > > out
> > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > > > rich requires solving the problem
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was
> > > > virtually
> > > > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either
> > > > strings or
> > > > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you
> > > > don't
> > > > > > mean
> > > > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be
> > the
> > > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The
> > only
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > > > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored
> > > > version.
> > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your
> > > > originals.
> > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef
> > here.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2
> > samples
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the
> > folder
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > called
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab
> > > > modeling.
> > > > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI
> > > > without
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat,
> > some
> > > > EQ (
> > > > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer
> > as a
> > > > pre
> > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little
> > > > reverb.
> > > > > > Also
> > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > were run through a tube amp
> > compressor,
> > > > but
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and
> > > > have
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > > > the guitar coming through the
> > monitors.
> > > > how
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i
> > > > work on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI
> > sound.
> > > > or
> > > > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > > > both. and anything else you can
> > think
> > > > of.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of
> > these,
> > > > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick
> > riffs of
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare
> > to
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > > > gs and how you might go about
> > adjusting
> > > > them
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > Visit
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls,
> > etc.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101"
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > web.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group,
> > send
> > > > an
> > > > > > > > email
> > > > > > > > > > to:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
> > subject
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
> > Sponsor
> > > > > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo!
> > > > Groups.
> > > > > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > > > > page
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > Visit
> > > >
> > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo!
> > Groups.
> > > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > > page
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > .
> > > > > Visit
> >
> > > > for archived
> > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------~-->
> > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
> > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > page
> > >
> >
>
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > > Visit
> > for archived
> > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home
> page
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
