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A ten dollar mic is the equivelent of playing your records on a sewing
machine...
--- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> and to add to Phil's (excellent)points.
> - the problem also isn't in the soundcard/pc part, appearantly
> - you might want to go back to the pod, it's a line6 right? are you
> sure it's not a setting problem, or an impedance mismatch? I don't
> have any experience with a pod, but so many people ar so enthusiastic
>
> about it, and get WAY better results, that I'm curious why it doesn't
>
> work properly in your case.
> - I am VERY sceptical about a $10 mic, period, if it's the kind of
> mic I suspect it is (if the store offers is in various colors, that
> usually a clue ;-) than you might as well use an reversly connected
> walkman headphone (my first mic!)... there are reasonbably priced
> SM57 and SM58 copies on the market, Shure itself also has a budget
> line, no experience with those though. In any case, if you have a
> little spare cash, a decent mic is a very cool thing to own. my 2 cts
>
> WR
>
>
>
> --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm sure you can tell how much more definition and full-bodied the
> > sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier samples, especially
> the
> > low-E.
> >
> > One of several things this means is that the problem is what's
> between
> > the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
> >
> > Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no color at all, just
> > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an m-56 or m-57 mic
> and no
> > eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45 degrees to the
> center
> > of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very center, about 3 inches
> > away.
> > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > hey phil,
> > >
> > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each string
> > > plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no EQ
> > > or nothin.
> > >
> > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > >
> > > neal
> > >
> > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > What does the guitar sound like plugged in directly
> > > > - that is,
> > > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > > >
> > > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > not there to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> > > > guitar only on each
> > > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
> > > >
> > > > Trying to solve any process problem with many
> > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > together only leads to more chaos unless by sheer
> > > > luck you step in it
> > > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant of
> > > > the pile you started
> > > > with.
> > > >
> > > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > > Only later can you insert more toys and then just
> > > > one at a time until
> > > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause you to
> > > > go back and twek
> > > > something else, but at least you have a starting
> > > > point. When you go
> > > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it doesn't
> > > > do what yu want it
> > > > tp, then reset everything to where they were before
> > > > proceeding.
> > > >
> > > > While the new sample sounds better, it's all about
> > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not a
> > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going to
> > > > get the best
> > > > result.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
> > > > > come at a better time, because your basically
> > > > telling
> > > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing
> > > > about
> > > > > this last week.
> > > > >
> > > > > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> > > > sample
> > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> > > > behringer
> > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > > >
> > > > > I could not for the life of squeeze anything out
> > > > of
> > > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i
> > > > had
> > > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> > > > POD,
> > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> > > > when i
> > > > > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
> > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> > > > strummed
> > > > > a chord it was all distortion because of the max
> > > > > volume.
> > > > >
> > > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck
> > > > the
> > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my
> > > > new
> > > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > > >
> > > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im
> > > > know
> > > > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > > > particular
> > > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill
> > > > off
> > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no
> > > > EQ,
> > > > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into
> > > > a
> > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > >
> > > > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > > > recording
> > > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> > > > nose in
> > > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> > > > >
> > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
> > > > > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
> > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie
> > > > i
> > > > > know that when i presented them the behringer vs
> > > > > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less,
> > > > im
> > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > >
> > > > > I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
> > > > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > > > definitly
> > > > > get )
> > > > > anyway i recently bought their book of collection
> > > > of
> > > > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM )
> > > > and
> > > > > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> > > > sound
> > > > > albums
> > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
> > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> > > > gear, i
> > > > > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> > > > $150.
> > > > >
> > > > > what do would you say to someone presenting you
> > > > with
> > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to
> > > > buy
> > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where
> > > > to
> > > > > start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57
> > > > ?
> > > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have
> > > > been
> > > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > > >
> > > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> > > > going to
> > > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > neal
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
> > > > > thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar,
> > > > to
> > > > > show me what it should sound like, and the gear
> > > > you
> > > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- mono_tones_1 <rockverb@h...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > interested in your problems. having said that,
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps
> > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to make?
> > > > btw,
> > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT,
> > > > it
> > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs
> > > > are
> > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in
> > > > just
> > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> > > > out,
> > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have to
> > > > check
> > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i checked your recording line in the 'old' post,
> > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > working with that gear. I noticed there is quite
> > > > a
> > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > most if not all not professional level. Now, I
> > > > work
> > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of
> > > > thumb
> > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> > > > really
> > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out
> > > > of
> > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm
> > > > using
> > > > > > the name
> > > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> > > > puts
> > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I
> > > > am
> > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > what they can offer for little cash), they did a
> > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > recording stuff available for the masses, and
> > > > you
> > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but still:
> > > > they
> > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a
> > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables, these
> > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > that what your adding doesn't do what you want
> > > > it
> > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at least my
> > > > > > experience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> > > > tweaked
> > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem be
> > > > there?
> > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> > > > pretty
> > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > have you thought about changing the moddeler for
> > > > an
> > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this:
> > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded
> > > > his
> > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know,
> > > > the
> > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive
> > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy
> > > > a
> > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > > > recording.
> > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> > > > they'll
> > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I bought
> > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry
> > > > level
> > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > helped me understand so much about what the F i
> > > > was
> > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going
> > > > for
> > > > > > those
> > > > > > interested,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WR
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In , "Neal S."
> > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> > > > > > better
> > > > > > > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let
> > > > me
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > if its more workable, or if i should go back
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no
> > > > low
> > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and
> > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out
> > > > making
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually
> > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either strings or
> > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you don't
> > > > mean
> > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> > > > other
> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored version.
> > > > This
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your originals.
> > > > Even
> > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples in
> > > > the
> > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder is
> > > > > > called
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without
> > > > the
> > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ (
> > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre
> > > > amp
> > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little reverb.
> > > > Also
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor, but
> > > > with
> > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and have
> > > > just
> > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors. how
> > > > do
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or
> > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > both. and anything else you can think of.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> > > > just
> > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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phil,
just got my hands on a SM57. Mic'd it exactly the way
you told me. Mic into the Mixer. No EQ, no nufin'.
the sample is at ' amp57.mp3 '
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> mp3's are muddy by definition, which is why Apple
> went to m4a. How are
> you outputting to your stereo? If it all goes south
> when you plug into
> your stereo, then you likely have an impedence
> mismatch.
>
> I know you are familiar with the sound of your
> stereo and headphones,
> but using anything other than professional studio
> monitors and
> professional studio headphones (I use AKG K-240S,
> about $125 and good
> enough to mix with, once you learn the difference
> between open air
> sound and headphones) gives you a distorted
> representation of the
> sound. Without your guitar in a band mix, you don't
> have much to
> compare with. Not a lot of solo guitar surf out
> there.
>
> Also, I did not say the guitar sounds good, but it
> does sound well
> within a workable range.
>
> As an aside, when you're thinking about surf guitar
> sound, and
> particularly if your among the admirers of the great
> sound Richie
> Podolor got back in the day, you should know that he
> did not use an
> amp. He plugged into the board directly and used an
> acoustic chamber
> for reverb. Not that you can do that live, but
> everything beyond the
> guitar should add to it, not detract.
>
> Phil
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
> > attached to the out of my soundcard are yorkville
> > nearfields. there active and bi-amped. Everything
> i do
> > on them sounds awesome. the clarity and seperation
> is
> > amazing ( to me ) even when it comes out of the
> > preamp, POD, amp whatever. Even headphones my
> guitar
> > sounds pretty good. for example, the first sample
> > (samp1) i sent you, sounds good on my nearfields !
> (
> > am i tone def ) ?
> >
> > Its whenever i take my stuff to my stereo or
> boombox,
> > it sounds distant and muddy.
> >
> > my stereo is a newer rotel preamp, rotel power
> amp, to
> > 2 older NHT 2.5i speakers and matched sub. cds
> sound
> > awesome in it ! ( pro cds, not mine ) Although
> > direct2.mp3 sounded pretty good on it, but a
> little
> > muddy.
> >
> > maybe i dont know how to correctly judge my
> > nearfields. but if you say that direct2 is a good
> > sample and should be what a guitar should sound
> like
> > direct, im gonna do some listening comparisions.
> and
> > as soon as i get my sm57 im gonna do exactly what
> you
> > said and post that.
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> >
> > > No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it is
> just
> > > part of the
> > > spectrum. What are you listening on? What kind
> of
> > > amp and monitors or
> > > headphones?
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > phil,
> > > >
> > > > i do notice that it sounds better. However,
> check
> > > this
> > > > out. With the exact same set up im going to
> strum
> > > > chords. DO you think the bottem end is
> disapearing
> > > > like it did before when i play chords ? it
> seems
> > > to
> > > > me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what do
> you
> > > > think ?
> > > >
> > > > file is direct2.mp3
> > > >
> > > > btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have one
> > > within
> > > > a couple days, ill post the samples as soon as
> i
> > > get
> > > > it !
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm sure you can tell how much more
> definition
> > > and
> > > > > full-bodied the
> > > > > sound of the guitar is than any of the
> earlier
> > > > > samples, especially the
> > > > > low-E.
> > > > >
> > > > > One of several things this means is that the
> > > problem
> > > > > is what's between
> > > > > the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, do the same thing into the amp only
> with no
> > > > > color at all, just
> > > > > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use
> an
> > > m-56
> > > > > or m-57 mic and no
> > > > > eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at
> 45
> > > > > degrees to the center
> > > > > of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very
> > > center,
> > > > > about 3 inches
> > > > > away.
> > > > > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > > > >
> > > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > hey phil,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just
> each
> > > > > string
> > > > > > plucked and sustained, straight into the
> > > board, no
> > > > > EQ
> > > > > > or nothin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > What does the guitar sound like plugged
> in
> > > > > directly
> > > > > > > - that is,
> > > > > > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy
> and
> > > > > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > > > > not there to begin with.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes
> from
> > > the
> > > > > > > guitar only on each
> > > > > > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that
> > > sample.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Trying to solve any process problem with
> > > many
> > > > > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > > > > together only leads to more chaos unless
> by
> > > > > sheer
> > > > > > > luck you step in it
> > > > > > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a
> > > variant
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the pile you started
> > > > > > > with.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > > > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > > > > > Only later can you insert more toys and
> then
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > one at a time until
> > > > > > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may
> > > cause
> > > > > you to
> > > > > > > go back and twek
> > > > > > > something else, but at least you have a
> > > starting
> > > > > > > point. When you go
> > > > > > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If
> it
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > do what yu want it
> > > > > > > tp, then reset everything to where they
> were
> > > > > before
> > > > > > > proceeding.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While the new sample sounds better, it's
> all
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > > > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich,
> and
> > > it's
> > > > > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > > > > will be less harshly judged. It's
> certainly
> > > not
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > > > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is
> not
> > > going
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > get the best
> > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email,
> > > couldnt
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > come at a better time, because your
> > > basically
> > > > > > > telling
> > > > > > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly
> > > > > realizing
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > this last week.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > let me first tell you the signal chain
> of
> > > new
> > > > > > > sample
> > > > > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp)
> >
> > > the
> > > > > > > behringer
> > > > > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I could not for the life of squeeze
> > > anything
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable
> sample,
> > > but
> > > > > i
> > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the
> max,
> > > the
> > > > > > > POD,
> > > > > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module
> > > plugins.
> > > > > > > when i
> > > > > > > > played quietly it sounded about the
> > > 'presense'
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however
> > > when i
> > > > > > > strummed
> > > > > > > > a chord it was all distortion because
> of
> > > the
> > > > > max
> > > > > > > > volume.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo,
> and
> > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with
> > > clothes
> > > > > ). my
> > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an
> > > amp, so
> > > > > im
> > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > theres still plenty of room for that.
> this
> > > > > > > particular
> > > > > > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches
> from
> > > the
> > > > > grill
> > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into
> the
> > > mixer.
> > > > > no
> > > > > > > EQ,
> > > > > > > > just whatever tone i got out of the
> amp.
> > > also
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i just bought a book ! its callled
> "modern
> > > > > > > recording
> > > > > > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so
> i
> > > got my
> > > > > > > nose in
> > > > > > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here
> > > first.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing.
> i
> > > bought
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > behringer, cause well, they steal
> > > schematics
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that
> use
> > > > > mackie
> > > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > know that when i presented them the
> > > behringer
> > > > > vs
> > > > > > > > mackie argument, they were only
> fighting
> > > my in
> > > > > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'.
> none
> > > the
> > > > > less,
> > > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I subscribe to this free magazine
> called
> > > > > tapeop (
> > > > > > > > which if your a home recorder, you
> should
> > > > > > > definitly
> > > > > > > > get )
> > > > > > > > anyway i recently bought their book of
> > > > > collection
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > articles ( surf content : they
> interviewd
> > > MOAM
> > > > > )
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > it seems like almost everyone is
> geting
> > > great
> > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > albums
> > > > > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic
> > > amp,
> > > > > and a
> > > > > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt
> > > expensive
> > > > > > > gear, i
> > > > > > > > mean i could go buy all that used for
> > > probaly
> > > > > > > $150.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > what do would you say to someone
> > > presenting
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive
> been
> > > > > looking to
> > > > > > > buy
> > > > > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to
> get
> > > or
> > > > > where
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > start. ive also am going to replace
> the
> > > mic,
> > > > > sm57
> > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$
> > > that
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone
> advice.
> > > im
> > > > > > > going to
> > > > > > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would
> like to
> > > > > send me
> > > > > > > > thier own sample of just a home
> recorded
> > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > show me what it should sound like, and
> the
> > > > > gear
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- mono_tones_1
> <>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > busy figuring out recording myself,
> I'm
> > > both
> > > > > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > > > > interested in your problems. having
> said
> > > > > that,
> > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you
> are,
> > > and my
> > > > > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can
> and
> > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of
> the
> > > more
> > > > > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm
> about to
> > > > > make?
> > > > > > > btw,
> > > > > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > your new sample sound a lot better
> > > indeed,
> > > > > BUT,
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while
> the
> > > > > highs
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this
> might
> > > result
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > > > > mix, because the well defined lows
> will
> > > come
> > > > > > > out,
> > > > > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > > > > might drown in the other lows...
> you'd
> > > have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > check
> > > > > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i checked your recording line in the
> > > 'old'
> > > > > post,
> > > > > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > > > > working with that gear. I noticed
> there
> > > is
> > > > > quite
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > > > > most if not all not professional
> level.
> > > Now,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that
> > > adding
> > > > > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly
> blunt
> > > rule
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > thumb
> > > > > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > > > > add anything that says 'behringer'
> till
> > > you
> > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but
> get
> > > it
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > > > > Not to put behringer or any company
> down
> > > > > (I'm
> > > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > > the name
> > > > > > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause
> > > everyone
> > > > > > > puts
> > > > > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite
> > > > > frankly, I
> > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > > > > what they can offer for little
> cash),
> > > they
> > > > > did a
> > > > > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > > > > recording stuff available for the
> > > masses,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > > > > and their stuff works pretty well,
> but
> > > > > still:
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll
> > > likely
> > > > > be a
> > > > > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > > > > inexperienced use, you have more
> cables,
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > > > > that what your adding doesn't do
> what
> > > you
> > > > > want
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's
> at
> > > > > least my
> > > > > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > there's a moddeler in your line -
> have
> > > you
> > > > > > > tweaked
> > > > > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the
> > > problem
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > there?
> > > > > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > > > > I have one built in in the vs880,
> and
> > > it's
> > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > have you thought about changing the
> > > moddeler
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > > > > before you say 'bedroom -
> neighbours',
> > > get
> > > > > this:
> > > > > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance
> Squad
> > > > > recorded
> > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall
> -
> > > you
> > > > > know,
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front
> -
> > > > > massive
> > > > > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > > > > not just internet urban legend - I
> sold
> > > the
> > > > > guy
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book
> on
> > > > > > > recording.
> > > > > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7
> costs,
> > > and
> > > > > > > they'll
> > > > > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > > > > recording then any piece of
> equipment. I
> > > > > bought
> > > > > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude
> and
> > > > > entry
> > > > > > > level
> > > > > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > > > > helped me understand so much about
> what
> > > the
> > > > > F i
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions
> for
> > > > > books.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this
> > > thread
> > > > > going
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > interested,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > WR
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In
> ,
> > > "Neal
> > > > > S."
> > > > > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying
> to
> > > obtain
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > > tone ! can you please check out
> > > > > sample9b.mp3
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files
> > > section ?
> > > > > let
> > > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > > if its more workable, or if i
> should
> > > go
> > > > > back
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a
> > > really
> > > > > dead
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > > > > word that comes to mind is
> > > "brittle."
> > > > > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you
> have
> > > almost
> > > > > no
> > > > > > > low
> > > > > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all
> > > (harmonics
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb
> > > pointed
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > > > > rich requires solving the
> problem
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was
> > > > > virtually
> > > > > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > > > > the guitar is the problem,
> either
> > > > > strings or
> > > > > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct
> you
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > mean
> > > > > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may
> still be
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled.
> The
> > > only
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of
> the
> > > > > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > > > > only rose to marginally
> acceptable.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Here are links to quickly
> doctored
> > > > > version.
> > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your
> > > > > originals.
> > > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > > > > boost I used, there's little
> beef
> > > here.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2
> > > samples
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the
> > > folder
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > called
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab
> > > > > modeling.
> > > > > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just
> DI
> > > > > without
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > both were recroded with fat
> strat,
> > > some
> > > > > EQ (
> > > > > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer
> mixer
> > > as a
> > > > > pre
> > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a
> little
> > > > > reverb.
> > > > > > > Also
> > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > were run through a tube amp
> > > compressor,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio,
> and
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > > > > the guitar coming through the
> > > monitors.
> > > > > how
> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > samples differ ? would you
> suggest i
> > > > > work on
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly
> DI
> > > sound.
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > > > > both. and anything else you can
> > > think
> > > > > of.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S."
> <memoryover@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of
> > > these,
> > > > > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick
> > > riffs of
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > can you tell me how they
> compare
> > > to
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > > > > gs and how you might go about
> > > adjusting
> > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > etc.
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> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> ---------------------------------
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>
You will notice how much that sounds like your direct-in signal. Now
you know for sure that most of your trouble is with effects and/or
connections/impedences.
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> phil,
>
> just got my hands on a SM57. Mic'd it exactly the way
> you told me. Mic into the Mixer. No EQ, no nufin'.
>
> the sample is at ' amp57.mp3 '
>
> --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
>
> > mp3's are muddy by definition, which is why Apple
> > went to m4a. How are
> > you outputting to your stereo? If it all goes south
> > when you plug into
> > your stereo, then you likely have an impedence
> > mismatch.
> >
> > I know you are familiar with the sound of your
> > stereo and headphones,
> > but using anything other than professional studio
> > monitors and
> > professional studio headphones (I use AKG K-240S,
> > about $125 and good
> > enough to mix with, once you learn the difference
> > between open air
> > sound and headphones) gives you a distorted
> > representation of the
> > sound. Without your guitar in a band mix, you don't
> > have much to
> > compare with. Not a lot of solo guitar surf out
> > there.
> >
> > Also, I did not say the guitar sounds good, but it
> > does sound well
> > within a workable range.
> >
> > As an aside, when you're thinking about surf guitar
> > sound, and
> > particularly if your among the admirers of the great
> > sound Richie
> > Podolor got back in the day, you should know that he
> > did not use an
> > amp. He plugged into the board directly and used an
> > acoustic chamber
> > for reverb. Not that you can do that live, but
> > everything beyond the
> > guitar should add to it, not detract.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> >
> > > attached to the out of my soundcard are yorkville
> > > nearfields. there active and bi-amped. Everything
> > i do
> > > on them sounds awesome. the clarity and seperation
> > is
> > > amazing ( to me ) even when it comes out of the
> > > preamp, POD, amp whatever. Even headphones my
> > guitar
> > > sounds pretty good. for example, the first sample
> > > (samp1) i sent you, sounds good on my nearfields !
> > (
> > > am i tone def ) ?
> > >
> > > Its whenever i take my stuff to my stereo or
> > boombox,
> > > it sounds distant and muddy.
> > >
> > > my stereo is a newer rotel preamp, rotel power
> > amp, to
> > > 2 older NHT 2.5i speakers and matched sub. cds
> > sound
> > > awesome in it ! ( pro cds, not mine ) Although
> > > direct2.mp3 sounded pretty good on it, but a
> > little
> > > muddy.
> > >
> > > maybe i dont know how to correctly judge my
> > > nearfields. but if you say that direct2 is a good
> > > sample and should be what a guitar should sound
> > like
> > > direct, im gonna do some listening comparisions.
> > and
> > > as soon as i get my sm57 im gonna do exactly what
> > you
> > > said and post that.
> > >
> > > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it is
> > just
> > > > part of the
> > > > spectrum. What are you listening on? What kind
> > of
> > > > amp and monitors or
> > > > headphones?
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > phil,
> > > > >
> > > > > i do notice that it sounds better. However,
> > check
> > > > this
> > > > > out. With the exact same set up im going to
> > strum
> > > > > chords. DO you think the bottem end is
> > disapearing
> > > > > like it did before when i play chords ? it
> > seems
> > > > to
> > > > > me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what do
> > you
> > > > > think ?
> > > > >
> > > > > file is direct2.mp3
> > > > >
> > > > > btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have one
> > > > within
> > > > > a couple days, ill post the samples as soon as
> > i
> > > > get
> > > > > it !
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sure you can tell how much more
> > definition
> > > > and
> > > > > > full-bodied the
> > > > > > sound of the guitar is than any of the
> > earlier
> > > > > > samples, especially the
> > > > > > low-E.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One of several things this means is that the
> > > > problem
> > > > > > is what's between
> > > > > > the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now, do the same thing into the amp only
> > with no
> > > > > > color at all, just
> > > > > > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use
> > an
> > > > m-56
> > > > > > or m-57 mic and no
> > > > > > eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at
> > 45
> > > > > > degrees to the center
> > > > > > of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very
> > > > center,
> > > > > > about 3 inches
> > > > > > away.
> > > > > > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phil
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > hey phil,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just
> > each
> > > > > > string
> > > > > > > plucked and sustained, straight into the
> > > > board, no
> > > > > > EQ
> > > > > > > or nothin.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What does the guitar sound like plugged
> > in
> > > > > > directly
> > > > > > > > - that is,
> > > > > > > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy
> > and
> > > > > > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > > > > > not there to begin with.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > guitar only on each
> > > > > > > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that
> > > > sample.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Trying to solve any process problem with
> > > > many
> > > > > > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > > > > > together only leads to more chaos unless
> > by
> > > > > > sheer
> > > > > > > > luck you step in it
> > > > > > > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a
> > > > variant
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the pile you started
> > > > > > > > with.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > > > > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > > > > > > Only later can you insert more toys and
> > then
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > one at a time until
> > > > > > > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may
> > > > cause
> > > > > > you to
> > > > > > > > go back and twek
> > > > > > > > something else, but at least you have a
> > > > starting
> > > > > > > > point. When you go
> > > > > > > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If
> > it
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > do what yu want it
> > > > > > > > tp, then reset everything to where they
> > were
> > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > proceeding.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While the new sample sounds better, it's
> > all
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > > > > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich,
> > and
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > > > > > will be less harshly judged. It's
> > certainly
> > > > not
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > > > > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is
> > not
> > > > going
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > get the best
> > > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email,
> > > > couldnt
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > come at a better time, because your
> > > > basically
> > > > > > > > telling
> > > > > > > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly
> > > > > > realizing
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > this last week.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > let me first tell you the signal chain
> > of
> > > > new
> > > > > > > > sample
> > > > > > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp)
> > >
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > behringer
> > > > > > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I could not for the life of squeeze
> > > > anything
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable
> > sample,
> > > > but
> > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the
> > max,
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > POD,
> > > > > > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module
> > > > plugins.
> > > > > > > > when i
> > > > > > > > > played quietly it sounded about the
> > > > 'presense'
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however
> > > > when i
> > > > > > > > strummed
> > > > > > > > > a chord it was all distortion because
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > max
> > > > > > > > > volume.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo,
> > and
> > > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with
> > > > clothes
> > > > > > ). my
> > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an
> > > > amp, so
> > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > theres still plenty of room for that.
> > this
> > > > > > > > particular
> > > > > > > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > > grill
> > > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into
> > the
> > > > mixer.
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > EQ,
> > > > > > > > > just whatever tone i got out of the
> > amp.
> > > > also
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i just bought a book ! its callled
> > "modern
> > > > > > > > recording
> > > > > > > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so
> > i
> > > > got my
> > > > > > > > nose in
> > > > > > > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here
> > > > first.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing.
> > i
> > > > bought
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > behringer, cause well, they steal
> > > > schematics
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that
> > use
> > > > > > mackie
> > > > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > > know that when i presented them the
> > > > behringer
> > > > > > vs
> > > > > > > > > mackie argument, they were only
> > fighting
> > > > my in
> > > > > > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'.
> > none
> > > > the
> > > > > > less,
> > > > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I subscribe to this free magazine
> > called
> > > > > > tapeop (
> > > > > > > > > which if your a home recorder, you
> > should
> > > > > > > > definitly
> > > > > > > > > get )
> > > > > > > > > anyway i recently bought their book of
> > > > > > collection
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > articles ( surf content : they
> > interviewd
> > > > MOAM
> > > > > > )
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > it seems like almost everyone is
> > geting
> > > > great
> > > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > albums
> > > > > > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic
> > > > amp,
> > > > > > and a
> > > > > > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt
> > > > expensive
> > > > > > > > gear, i
> > > > > > > > > mean i could go buy all that used for
> > > > probaly
> > > > > > > > $150.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > what do would you say to someone
> > > > presenting
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive
> > been
> > > > > > looking to
> > > > > > > > buy
> > > > > > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to
> > get
> > > > or
> > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > start. ive also am going to replace
> > the
> > > > mic,
> > > > > > sm57
> > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$
> > > > that
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone
> > advice.
> > > > im
> > > > > > > > going to
> > > > > > > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would
> > like to
> > > > > > send me
> > > > > > > > > thier own sample of just a home
> > recorded
> > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > show me what it should sound like, and
> > the
> > > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- mono_tones_1
> > <>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > busy figuring out recording myself,
> > I'm
> > > > both
> > > > > > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > > > > > interested in your problems. having
> > said
> > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you
> > are,
> > > > and my
> > > > > > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can
> > and
> > > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of
> > the
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm
> > about to
> > > > > > make?
> > > > > > > > btw,
> > > > > > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > your new sample sound a lot better
> > > > indeed,
> > > > > > BUT,
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while
> > the
> > > > > > highs
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this
> > might
> > > > result
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > > > > > mix, because the well defined lows
> > will
> > > > come
> > > > > > > > out,
> > > > > > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > > > > > might drown in the other lows...
> > you'd
> > > > have
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > check
> > > > > > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i checked your recording line in the
> > > > 'old'
> > > > > > post,
> > > > > > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > > > > > working with that gear. I noticed
> > there
> > > > is
> > > > > > quite
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > > > > > most if not all not professional
> > level.
> > > > Now,
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that
> > > > adding
> > > > > > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly
> > blunt
> > > > rule
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > thumb
> > > > > > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > > > > > add anything that says 'behringer'
> > till
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but
> > get
> > > > it
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > > > > > Not to put behringer or any company
> > down
> > > > > > (I'm
> > > > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > > > the name
> > > > > > > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause
> > > > everyone
> > > > > > > > puts
> > > > > > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite
> > > > > > frankly, I
> > > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > > > > > what they can offer for little
> > cash),
> > > > they
> > > > > > did a
> > > > > > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > > > > > recording stuff available for the
> > > > masses,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > > > > > and their stuff works pretty well,
> > but
> > > > > > still:
> > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll
> > > > likely
> > > > > > be a
> > > > > > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > > > > > inexperienced use, you have more
> > cables,
> > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > > > > > that what your adding doesn't do
> > what
> > > > you
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's
> > at
> > > > > > least my
> > > > > > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > there's a moddeler in your line -
> > have
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > tweaked
> > > > > > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the
> > > > problem
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > there?
> > > > > > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > > > > > I have one built in in the vs880,
> > and
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > have you thought about changing the
> > > > moddeler
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > > > > > before you say 'bedroom -
> > neighbours',
> > > > get
> > > > > > this:
> > > > > > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance
> > Squad
> > > > > > recorded
> > > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall
> > -
> > > > you
> > > > > > know,
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front
> > -
> > > > > > massive
> > > > > > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > > > > > not just internet urban legend - I
> > sold
> > > > the
> > > > > > guy
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book
> > on
> > > > > > > > recording.
> > > > > > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7
> > costs,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > they'll
> > > > > > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > > > > > recording then any piece of
> > equipment. I
> > > > > > bought
> > > > > > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude
> > and
> > > > > > entry
> > > > > > > > level
> > > > > > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > > > > > helped me understand so much about
> > what
> > > > the
> > > > > > F i
> > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions
> > for
> > > > > > books.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this
> > > > thread
> > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > interested,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > WR
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > ,
> > > > "Neal
> > > > > > S."
> > > > > > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying
> > to
> > > > obtain
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > > > tone ! can you please check out
> > > > > > sample9b.mp3
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files
> > > > section ?
> > > > > > let
> > > > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > > > if its more workable, or if i
> > should
> > > > go
> > > > > > back
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a
> > > > really
> > > > > > dead
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > > > > > word that comes to mind is
> > > > "brittle."
> > > > > > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you
> > have
> > > > almost
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > low
> > > > > > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all
> > > > (harmonics
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb
> > > > pointed
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > > > > > rich requires solving the
> > problem
> > > > with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was
> > > > > > virtually
> > > > > > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > > > > > the guitar is the problem,
> > either
> > > > > > strings or
> > > > > > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct
> > you
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > mean
> > > > > > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may
> > still be
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled.
> > The
> > > > only
> > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of
> > the
> > > > > > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > > > > > only rose to marginally
> > acceptable.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Here are links to quickly
> > doctored
> > > > > > version.
> > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your
> > > > > > originals.
> > > > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > > > > > boost I used, there's little
> > beef
> > > > here.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2
> > > > samples
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the
> > > > folder
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > called
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab
> > > > > > modeling.
> > > > > > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just
> > DI
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > both were recroded with fat
> > strat,
> > > > some
> > > > > > EQ (
> > > > > > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer
> > mixer
> > > > as a
> > > > > > pre
> > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a
> > little
> > > > > > reverb.
> > > > > > > > Also
> > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > > were run through a tube amp
> > > > compressor,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio,
> > and
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > > > > > the guitar coming through the
> > > > monitors.
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > > samples differ ? would you
> > suggest i
> > > > > > work on
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly
> > DI
> > > > sound.
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > > > > > both. and anything else you can
> > > > think
> > > > > > of.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S."
> > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of
> > > > these,
> > > > > > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick
> > > > riffs of
> > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > can you tell me how they
> > compare
> > > > to
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > > > > > gs and how you might go about
> > > > adjusting
> > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > .
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> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
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phil, thanks !
theoretically, now, shouldnt the tone from the amp be
good enough to get a decent recording to the point
where no 'after effects' should be added ?
and how does my sm57 tone compare to that of a "really
good" recording ? i mean, the sm57 sounds WAY better
than that 10$ mic i bought, it cleared alot of things
up.
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> You will notice how much that sounds like your
> direct-in signal. Now
> you know for sure that most of your trouble is with
> effects and/or
> connections/impedences.
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
> > phil,
> >
> > just got my hands on a SM57. Mic'd it exactly the
> way
> > you told me. Mic into the Mixer. No EQ, no nufin'.
> >
> > the sample is at ' amp57.mp3 '
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> >
> > > mp3's are muddy by definition, which is why
> Apple
> > > went to m4a. How are
> > > you outputting to your stereo? If it all goes
> south
> > > when you plug into
> > > your stereo, then you likely have an impedence
> > > mismatch.
> > >
> > > I know you are familiar with the sound of your
> > > stereo and headphones,
> > > but using anything other than professional
> studio
> > > monitors and
> > > professional studio headphones (I use AKG
> K-240S,
> > > about $125 and good
> > > enough to mix with, once you learn the
> difference
> > > between open air
> > > sound and headphones) gives you a distorted
> > > representation of the
> > > sound. Without your guitar in a band mix, you
> don't
> > > have much to
> > > compare with. Not a lot of solo guitar surf out
> > > there.
> > >
> > > Also, I did not say the guitar sounds good, but
> it
> > > does sound well
> > > within a workable range.
> > >
> > > As an aside, when you're thinking about surf
> guitar
> > > sound, and
> > > particularly if your among the admirers of the
> great
> > > sound Richie
> > > Podolor got back in the day, you should know
> that he
> > > did not use an
> > > amp. He plugged into the board directly and used
> an
> > > acoustic chamber
> > > for reverb. Not that you can do that live, but
> > > everything beyond the
> > > guitar should add to it, not detract.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > attached to the out of my soundcard are
> yorkville
> > > > nearfields. there active and bi-amped.
> Everything
> > > i do
> > > > on them sounds awesome. the clarity and
> seperation
> > > is
> > > > amazing ( to me ) even when it comes out of
> the
> > > > preamp, POD, amp whatever. Even headphones my
> > > guitar
> > > > sounds pretty good. for example, the first
> sample
> > > > (samp1) i sent you, sounds good on my
> nearfields !
> > > (
> > > > am i tone def ) ?
> > > >
> > > > Its whenever i take my stuff to my stereo or
> > > boombox,
> > > > it sounds distant and muddy.
> > > >
> > > > my stereo is a newer rotel preamp, rotel power
> > > amp, to
> > > > 2 older NHT 2.5i speakers and matched sub. cds
> > > sound
> > > > awesome in it ! ( pro cds, not mine ) Although
> > > > direct2.mp3 sounded pretty good on it, but a
> > > little
> > > > muddy.
> > > >
> > > > maybe i dont know how to correctly judge my
> > > > nearfields. but if you say that direct2 is a
> good
> > > > sample and should be what a guitar should
> sound
> > > like
> > > > direct, im gonna do some listening
> comparisions.
> > > and
> > > > as soon as i get my sm57 im gonna do exactly
> what
> > > you
> > > > said and post that.
> > > >
> > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it
> is
> > > just
> > > > > part of the
> > > > > spectrum. What are you listening on? What
> kind
> > > of
> > > > > amp and monitors or
> > > > > headphones?
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > > > >
> > > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > phil,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i do notice that it sounds better.
> However,
> > > check
> > > > > this
> > > > > > out. With the exact same set up im going
> to
> > > strum
> > > > > > chords. DO you think the bottem end is
> > > disapearing
> > > > > > like it did before when i play chords ? it
> > > seems
> > > > > to
> > > > > > me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what
> do
> > > you
> > > > > > think ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > file is direct2.mp3
> > > > > >
> > > > > > btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have
> one
> > > > > within
> > > > > > a couple days, ill post the samples as
> soon as
> > > i
> > > > > get
> > > > > > it !
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm sure you can tell how much more
> > > definition
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > full-bodied the
> > > > > > > sound of the guitar is than any of the
> > > earlier
> > > > > > > samples, especially the
> > > > > > > low-E.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One of several things this means is that
> the
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > is what's between
> > > > > > > the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now, do the same thing into the amp only
> > > with no
> > > > > > > color at all, just
> > > > > > > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin).
> Use
> > > an
> > > > > m-56
> > > > > > > or m-57 mic and no
> > > > > > > eq or anythng in the board. Place the
> mic at
> > > 45
> > > > > > > degrees to the center
> > > > > > > of the best speaker cone, aimed at the
> very
> > > > > center,
> > > > > > > about 3 inches
> > > > > > > away.
> > > > > > > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > hey phil,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its
> just
> > > each
> > > > > > > string
> > > > > > > > plucked and sustained, straight into
> the
> > > > > board, no
> > > > > > > EQ
> > > > > > > > or nothin.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt
> <>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What does the guitar sound like
> plugged
> > > in
> > > > > > > directly
> > > > > > > > > - that is,
> > > > > > > > > completely un-colored and not
> amplified.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > More lows, but as someone noted,
> mushy
> > > and
> > > > > > > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > > > > > > not there to begin with.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Play a couple of fully sustained
> notes
> > > from
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > guitar only on each
> > > > > > > > > string (open, no fretting). Put up
> that
> > > > > sample.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Trying to solve any process problem
> with
> > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > > > > > > together only leads to more chaos
> unless
> > > by
> > > > > > > sheer
> > > > > > > > > luck you step in it
> > > > > > > > > and the "it" is the answer instead
> of a
> > > > > variant
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > the pile you started
> > > > > > > > > with.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Guitar alone - what does it sound
> like?
> > > > > > > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do
> there?
> > > > > > > > > Only later can you insert more toys
> and
> > > then
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > one at a time until
> > > > > > > > > you get it worked out. Each new toy
> may
> > > > > cause
> > > > > > > you to
> > > > > > > > > go back and twek
> > > > > > > > > something else, but at least you
> have a
> > > > > starting
> > > > > > > > > point. When you go
> > > > > > > > > back, tweak only one thing at a
> time. If
> > > it
> > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > do what yu want it
> > > > > > > > > tp, then reset everything to where
> they
> > > were
> > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > proceeding.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > While the new sample sounds better,
> it's
> > > all
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > > > > > > not very pleasing. It is not very
> rich,
> > > and
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > > > > > > will be less harshly judged. It's
> > > certainly
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > > > > > > not strong to begin with, doctoring
> is
> > > not
> > > > > going
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > get the best
> > > > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your
> email,
> > > > > couldnt
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > come at a better time, because
> your
> > > > > basically
> > > > > > > > > telling
> > > > > > > > > > me everything ive been kinda
> suddenly
> > > > > > > realizing
> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > this last week.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > let me first tell you the signal
> chain
> > > of
> > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > sample
> > > > > > > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state
> amp)
> > > >
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > behringer
> > > > > > > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I could not for the life of
> squeeze
> > > > > anything
> > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable
> > > sample,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > > the Eq turned up on everything to
> the
> > > max,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > POD,
> > > > > > > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked
> module
> > > > > plugins.
> > > > > > > > > when i
> > > > > > > > > > played quietly it sounded about
> the
> > > > > 'presense'
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd.
> however
> > > > > when i
> > > > > > > > > strummed
> > > > > > > > > > a chord it was all distortion
> because
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > max
> > > > > > > > > > volume.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp
> combo,
> > > and
> > > > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3'
> with
> > > > > clothes
> > > > > > > ). my
> > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors
> !"
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Now im very inexperienced at
> micing an
> > > > > amp, so
> > > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > > theres still plenty of room for
> that.
> > > this
> > > > > > > > > particular
> > > > > > > > > > sample it was placed about 2
> inches
> > > from
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > grill
> > > > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR
> into
> > > the
> > > > > mixer.
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > EQ,
> > > > > > > > > > just whatever tone i got out of
> the
> > > amp.
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i just bought a book ! its callled
> > > "modern
> > > > > > > > > recording
> > > > > > > > > > techniques" by huber and runstein.
> so
> > > i
> > > > > got my
> > > > > > > > > nose in
> > > > > > > > > > that. your right, i shoulda went
> here
> > > > > first.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear
> thing.
> > > i
> > > > > bought
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > behringer, cause well, they steal
> > > > > schematics
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends
> that
> > > use
> > > > > > > mackie
> > > > > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > > > know that when i presented them
> the
> > > > > behringer
> > > > > > > vs
> > > > > > > > > > mackie argument, they were only
> > > fighting
> > > > > my in
> > > > > > > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'.
> > > none
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > less,
> > > > > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I subscribe to this free magazine
> > > called
> > > > > > > tapeop (
> > > > > > > > > > which if your a home recorder, you
> > > should
> > > > > > > > > definitly
> > > > > > > > > > get )
> > > > > > > > > > anyway i recently bought their
> book of
> > > > > > > collection
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > articles ( surf content : they
> > > interviewd
> > > > > MOAM
> > > > > > > )
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > it seems like almost everyone is
> > > geting
> > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > > albums
> > > > > > > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre
> mic
> > > > > amp,
> > > > > > > and a
> > > > > > > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this
> isnt
> > > > > expensive
> > > > > > > > > gear, i
> > > > > > > > > > mean i could go buy all that used
> for
> > > > > probaly
> > > > > > > > > $150.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > what do would you say to someone
> > > > > presenting
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive
> > > been
> > > > > > > looking to
> > > > > > > > > buy
> > > > > > > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what
> to
> > > get
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > start. ive also am going to
> replace
> > > the
> > > > > mic,
> > > > > > > sm57
> > > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > > > Nady makes these starpower mics
> for 7$
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone
> > > advice.
> > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > going to
> > > > > > > > > > get right to work on your
> suggestions.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would
> > > like to
> > > > > > > send me
> > > > > > > > > > thier own sample of just a home
> > > recorded
> > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > show me what it should sound like,
> and
> > > the
> > > > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > use. that would probaly help me
> out.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- mono_tones_1
> > > <>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > busy figuring out recording
> myself,
> > > I'm
> > > > > both
> > > > > > > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > > > > > > interested in your problems.
> having
> > > said
> > > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you
> > > are,
> > > > > and my
> > > > > > > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > > > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice
> can
> > > and
> > > > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one
> of
> > > the
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > > > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm
> > > about to
> > > > > > > make?
> > > > > > > > > btw,
> > > > > > > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > > > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > your new sample sound a lot
> better
> > > > > indeed,
> > > > > > > BUT,
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > > > > > > the extra lows are very mushy,
> while
> > > the
> > > > > > > highs
> > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this
> > > might
> > > > > result
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > > > > > > mix, because the well defined
> lows
> > > will
> > > > > come
> > > > > > > > > out,
> > > > > > > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > > > > > > might drown in the other lows...
> > > you'd
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > check
> > > > > > > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > i checked your recording line in
> the
> > > > > 'old'
> > > > > > > post,
> > > > > > > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > > > > > > working with that gear. I
> noticed
> > > there
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > quite
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > > > > > > most if not all not professional
> > > level.
> > > > > Now,
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is,
> that
> > > > > adding
> > > > > > > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly
> > > blunt
> > > > > rule
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > thumb
> > > > > > > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > > > > > > add anything that says
> 'behringer'
> > > till
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of,
> but
> > > get
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > > > > > > Not to put behringer or any
> company
> > > down
> > > > > > > (I'm
> > > > > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > > > > the name
> > > > > > > > > > > behringer metaforically here,
> cause
> > > > > everyone
> > > > > > > > > puts
> > > > > > > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > > > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn
> quite
> > > > > > > frankly, I
> > > > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > > > > > > what they can offer for little
> > > cash),
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > did a
> > > > > > > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > > > > > > recording stuff available for
> the
> > > > > masses,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > > > > > > and their stuff works pretty
> well,
> > > but
> > > > > > > still:
> > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > > > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff,
> you'll
> > > > > likely
> > > > > > > be a
> > > > > > > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > > > > > > inexperienced use, you have more
> > > cables,
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > > > > > > that what your adding doesn't do
> > > what
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > > > > > > what you don't want it to do!
> that's
> > > at
> > > > > > > least my
> > > > > > > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > there's a moddeler in your line
> -
> > > have
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > tweaked
> > > > > > > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > > > > > > controls to the full, couldn't
> the
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > there?
> > > > > > > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > > > > > > I have one built in in the
> vs880,
> > > and
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > have you thought about changing
> the
> > > > > moddeler
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > > > > > > before you say 'bedroom -
> > > neighbours',
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > this:
> > > > > > > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban
> Dance
> > > Squad
> > > > > > > recorded
> > > > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini
> marshall
> > > -
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > know,
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in
> front
> > > -
> > > > > > > massive
> > > > > > > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > > > > > > not just internet urban legend -
> I
> > > sold
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > guy
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a
> book
> > > on
> > > > > > > > > recording.
> > > > > > > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > > > > > > for less then what a decent
> 12ax7
> > > costs,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > they'll
> > > > > > > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > > > > > > recording then any piece of
> > > equipment. I
> > > > > > > bought
> > > > > > > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > > > > > > dummies' a while back, and as
> crude
> > > and
> > > > > > > entry
> > > > > > > > > level
> > > > > > > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > > > > > > helped me understand so much
> about
> > > what
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > F i
> > > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > > > > > > maybe someone has better
> suggestions
> > > for
> > > > > > > books.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep
> this
> > > > > thread
> > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > interested,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > WR
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > > ,
> > > > > "Neal
> > > > > > > S."
> > > > > > > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > ive been workin furiously
> trying
> > > to
> > > > > obtain
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > > > > tone ! can you please check
> out
> > > > > > > sample9b.mp3
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the
> files
> > > > > section ?
> > > > > > > let
> > > > > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > > > > if its more workable, or if i
> > > should
> > > > > go
> > > > > > > back
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen
> displayed a
> > > > > really
> > > > > > > dead
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > word that comes to mind is
> > > > > "brittle."
> > > > > > > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you
> > > have
> > > > > almost
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > low
> > > > > > > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all
> > > > > (harmonics
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with
> reverb
> > > > > pointed
> > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > rich requires solving the
> > > problem
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2
> was
> > > > > > > virtually
> > > > > > > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the guitar is the problem,
> > > either
> > > > > > > strings or
> > > > > > > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > set your controls. If by
> direct
> > > you
> > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > mean
> > > > > > > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may
> > > still be
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see why you're
> troubled.
> > > The
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > only rose to marginally
> > > acceptable.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are links to quickly
> > > doctored
> > > > > > > version.
> > > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to
> your
> > > > > > > originals.
> > > > > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > boost I used, there's little
> > > beef
> > > > > here.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S."
> <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > please help me out. there
> are 2
> > > > > samples
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > > > > > > section on this yahoo group.
> the
> > > > > folder
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > called
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and
> cab
> > > > > > > modeling.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much
> just
> > > DI
> > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > both were recroded with fat
> > > strat,
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > EQ (
> > > > > > > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer
> > > mixer
> > > > > as a
> > > > > > > pre
> > > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a
> > > little
> > > > > > > reverb.
> > > > > > > > > Also
> > > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > > > were run through a tube amp
> > > > > compressor,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a
> studio,
> > > and
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the guitar coming through
> the
> > > > > monitors.
> > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > samples differ ? would you
> > > suggest i
> > > > > > > work on
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the
> strictly
> > > DI
> > > > > sound.
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > > > > > > both. and anything else you
> can
> > > > > think
> > > > > > > of.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt
> <phildirt@r...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try
> it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S."
> > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try
> most of
> > > > > these,
> > > > > > > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > course ! if i post some
> quick
> > > > > riffs of
> > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > can you tell me how they
> > > compare
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > gs and how you might go
> about
> > > > > adjusting
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files,
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> > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------
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> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group
> > > "SurfGuitar101"
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > web.
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>
Neal,
Aha! A clue has arisen. You said that essentially, your samples
sound pretty good when played on your computer, and that pre-recorded
CD's sound good when played on your stereo, and yet, a recording of
your sample on a CD sounds crappy on your stereo.
Your recording software probably has a boatload of options, check to
make sure that you haven't accidentally turned on any extraneous EQ
settings in the "Record" function. Make sure that it's all set to
the flattest EQ possible, or better yet, no EQ at all. Ditto for
any effects that might have snuck in there, give 'em the boot.
unlunf
--- In , "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
>
> attached to the out of my soundcard are yorkville
> nearfields. there active and bi-amped. Everything i do
> on them sounds awesome. the clarity and seperation is
> amazing ( to me ) even when it comes out of the
> preamp, POD, amp whatever. Even headphones my guitar
> sounds pretty good. for example, the first sample
> (samp1) i sent you, sounds good on my nearfields ! (
> am i tone def ) ?
>
> Its whenever i take my stuff to my stereo or boombox,
> it sounds distant and muddy.
>
> my stereo is a newer rotel preamp, rotel power amp, to
> 2 older NHT 2.5i speakers and matched sub. cds sound
> awesome in it ! ( pro cds, not mine ) Although
> direct2.mp3 sounded pretty good on it, but a little
> muddy.
>
> maybe i dont know how to correctly judge my
> nearfields. but if you say that direct2 is a good
> sample and should be what a guitar should sound like
> direct, im gonna do some listening comparisions. and
> as soon as i get my sm57 im gonna do exactly what you
> said and post that.
>
> --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
>> No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it is just part
>> of the spectrum. What are you listening on? What kind of
>> amp and monitors or headphones?
>>
>> Phil
>
No. Now you're at the point where you can start to work on tone. Yes,
the 57 is fine. The amp may need a tuneup, the guitar too, and there's
still lots of room for making it all work in a mix. It's a good place
to do demos from - maybe - depending on how it fits in with a band.
You're on your way. Just remember the rule - anything you change or add
that does not help, set everything back to where you werre before
rather than start changing everything in the chain.
Phil
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> phil, thanks !
>
> theoretically, now, shouldnt the tone from the amp be
> good enough to get a decent recording to the point
> where no 'after effects' should be added ?
>
> and how does my sm57 tone compare to that of a "really
> good" recording ? i mean, the sm57 sounds WAY better
> than that 10$ mic i bought, it cleared alot of things
> up.
>
> --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
>
> > You will notice how much that sounds like your
> > direct-in signal. Now
> > you know for sure that most of your trouble is with
> > effects and/or
> > connections/impedences.
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> >
> > > phil,
> > >
> > > just got my hands on a SM57. Mic'd it exactly the
> > way
> > > you told me. Mic into the Mixer. No EQ, no nufin'.
> > >
> > > the sample is at ' amp57.mp3 '
> > >
> > > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > mp3's are muddy by definition, which is why
> > Apple
> > > > went to m4a. How are
> > > > you outputting to your stereo? If it all goes
> > south
> > > > when you plug into
> > > > your stereo, then you likely have an impedence
> > > > mismatch.
> > > >
> > > > I know you are familiar with the sound of your
> > > > stereo and headphones,
> > > > but using anything other than professional
> > studio
> > > > monitors and
> > > > professional studio headphones (I use AKG
> > K-240S,
> > > > about $125 and good
> > > > enough to mix with, once you learn the
> > difference
> > > > between open air
> > > > sound and headphones) gives you a distorted
> > > > representation of the
> > > > sound. Without your guitar in a band mix, you
> > don't
> > > > have much to
> > > > compare with. Not a lot of solo guitar surf out
> > > > there.
> > > >
> > > > Also, I did not say the guitar sounds good, but
> > it
> > > > does sound well
> > > > within a workable range.
> > > >
> > > > As an aside, when you're thinking about surf
> > guitar
> > > > sound, and
> > > > particularly if your among the admirers of the
> > great
> > > > sound Richie
> > > > Podolor got back in the day, you should know
> > that he
> > > > did not use an
> > > > amp. He plugged into the board directly and used
> > an
> > > > acoustic chamber
> > > > for reverb. Not that you can do that live, but
> > > > everything beyond the
> > > > guitar should add to it, not detract.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > attached to the out of my soundcard are
> > yorkville
> > > > > nearfields. there active and bi-amped.
> > Everything
> > > > i do
> > > > > on them sounds awesome. the clarity and
> > seperation
> > > > is
> > > > > amazing ( to me ) even when it comes out of
> > the
> > > > > preamp, POD, amp whatever. Even headphones my
> > > > guitar
> > > > > sounds pretty good. for example, the first
> > sample
> > > > > (samp1) i sent you, sounds good on my
> > nearfields !
> > > > (
> > > > > am i tone def ) ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Its whenever i take my stuff to my stereo or
> > > > boombox,
> > > > > it sounds distant and muddy.
> > > > >
> > > > > my stereo is a newer rotel preamp, rotel power
> > > > amp, to
> > > > > 2 older NHT 2.5i speakers and matched sub. cds
> > > > sound
> > > > > awesome in it ! ( pro cds, not mine ) Although
> > > > > direct2.mp3 sounded pretty good on it, but a
> > > > little
> > > > > muddy.
> > > > >
> > > > > maybe i dont know how to correctly judge my
> > > > > nearfields. but if you say that direct2 is a
> > good
> > > > > sample and should be what a guitar should
> > sound
> > > > like
> > > > > direct, im gonna do some listening
> > comparisions.
> > > > and
> > > > > as soon as i get my sm57 im gonna do exactly
> > what
> > > > you
> > > > > said and post that.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it
> > is
> > > > just
> > > > > > part of the
> > > > > > spectrum. What are you listening on? What
> > kind
> > > > of
> > > > > > amp and monitors or
> > > > > > headphones?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phil
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > phil,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i do notice that it sounds better.
> > However,
> > > > check
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > out. With the exact same set up im going
> > to
> > > > strum
> > > > > > > chords. DO you think the bottem end is
> > > > disapearing
> > > > > > > like it did before when i play chords ? it
> > > > seems
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what
> > do
> > > > you
> > > > > > > think ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > file is direct2.mp3
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have
> > one
> > > > > > within
> > > > > > > a couple days, ill post the samples as
> > soon as
> > > > i
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > it !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm sure you can tell how much more
> > > > definition
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > full-bodied the
> > > > > > > > sound of the guitar is than any of the
> > > > earlier
> > > > > > > > samples, especially the
> > > > > > > > low-E.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One of several things this means is that
> > the
> > > > > > problem
> > > > > > > > is what's between
> > > > > > > > the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now, do the same thing into the amp only
> > > > with no
> > > > > > > > color at all, just
> > > > > > > > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin).
> > Use
> > > > an
> > > > > > m-56
> > > > > > > > or m-57 mic and no
> > > > > > > > eq or anythng in the board. Place the
> > mic at
> > > > 45
> > > > > > > > degrees to the center
> > > > > > > > of the best speaker cone, aimed at the
> > very
> > > > > > center,
> > > > > > > > about 3 inches
> > > > > > > > away.
> > > > > > > > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > hey phil,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its
> > just
> > > > each
> > > > > > > > string
> > > > > > > > > plucked and sustained, straight into
> > the
> > > > > > board, no
> > > > > > > > EQ
> > > > > > > > > or nothin.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt
> > <>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What does the guitar sound like
> > plugged
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > directly
> > > > > > > > > > - that is,
> > > > > > > > > > completely un-colored and not
> > amplified.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > More lows, but as someone noted,
> > mushy
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > > > > > > > not there to begin with.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Play a couple of fully sustained
> > notes
> > > > from
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > guitar only on each
> > > > > > > > > > string (open, no fretting). Put up
> > that
> > > > > > sample.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Trying to solve any process problem
> > with
> > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > > > > > > > together only leads to more chaos
> > unless
> > > > by
> > > > > > > > sheer
> > > > > > > > > > luck you step in it
> > > > > > > > > > and the "it" is the answer instead
> > of a
> > > > > > variant
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > the pile you started
> > > > > > > > > > with.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Guitar alone - what does it sound
> > like?
> > > > > > > > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do
> > there?
> > > > > > > > > > Only later can you insert more toys
> > and
> > > > then
> > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > one at a time until
> > > > > > > > > > you get it worked out. Each new toy
> > may
> > > > > > cause
> > > > > > > > you to
> > > > > > > > > > go back and twek
> > > > > > > > > > something else, but at least you
> > have a
> > > > > > starting
> > > > > > > > > > point. When you go
> > > > > > > > > > back, tweak only one thing at a
> > time. If
> > > > it
> > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > do what yu want it
> > > > > > > > > > tp, then reset everything to where
> > they
> > > > were
> > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > proceeding.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While the new sample sounds better,
> > it's
> > > > all
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > > > > > > > not very pleasing. It is not very
> > rich,
> > > > and
> > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > > > > > > > will be less harshly judged. It's
> > > > certainly
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > > > > > > > not strong to begin with, doctoring
> > is
> > > > not
> > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > get the best
> > > > > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your
> > email,
> > > > > > couldnt
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > come at a better time, because
> > your
> > > > > > basically
> > > > > > > > > > telling
> > > > > > > > > > > me everything ive been kinda
> > suddenly
> > > > > > > > realizing
> > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > this last week.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > let me first tell you the signal
> > chain
> > > > of
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > sample
> > > > > > > > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state
> > amp)
> > > > >
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > behringer
> > > > > > > > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I could not for the life of
> > squeeze
> > > > > > anything
> > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable
> > > > sample,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > > > the Eq turned up on everything to
> > the
> > > > max,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > POD,
> > > > > > > > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked
> > module
> > > > > > plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > when i
> > > > > > > > > > > played quietly it sounded about
> > the
> > > > > > 'presense'
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd.
> > however
> > > > > > when i
> > > > > > > > > > strummed
> > > > > > > > > > > a chord it was all distortion
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > max
> > > > > > > > > > > volume.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp
> > combo,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3'
> > with
> > > > > > clothes
> > > > > > > > ). my
> > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors
> > !"
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Now im very inexperienced at
> > micing an
> > > > > > amp, so
> > > > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > > > theres still plenty of room for
> > that.
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > particular
> > > > > > > > > > > sample it was placed about 2
> > inches
> > > > from
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > grill
> > > > > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > > mixer.
> > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > EQ,
> > > > > > > > > > > just whatever tone i got out of
> > the
> > > > amp.
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > i just bought a book ! its callled
> > > > "modern
> > > > > > > > > > recording
> > > > > > > > > > > techniques" by huber and runstein.
> > so
> > > > i
> > > > > > got my
> > > > > > > > > > nose in
> > > > > > > > > > > that. your right, i shoulda went
> > here
> > > > > > first.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear
> > thing.
> > > > i
> > > > > > bought
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > behringer, cause well, they steal
> > > > > > schematics
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends
> > that
> > > > use
> > > > > > > > mackie
> > > > > > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > > > > know that when i presented them
> > the
> > > > > > behringer
> > > > > > > > vs
> > > > > > > > > > > mackie argument, they were only
> > > > fighting
> > > > > > my in
> > > > > > > > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'.
> > > > none
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > less,
> > > > > > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I subscribe to this free magazine
> > > > called
> > > > > > > > tapeop (
> > > > > > > > > > > which if your a home recorder, you
> > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > definitly
> > > > > > > > > > > get )
> > > > > > > > > > > anyway i recently bought their
> > book of
> > > > > > > > collection
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > articles ( surf content : they
> > > > interviewd
> > > > > > MOAM
> > > > > > > > )
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > it seems like almost everyone is
> > > > geting
> > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > > > albums
> > > > > > > > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre
> > mic
> > > > > > amp,
> > > > > > > > and a
> > > > > > > > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this
> > isnt
> > > > > > expensive
> > > > > > > > > > gear, i
> > > > > > > > > > > mean i could go buy all that used
> > for
> > > > > > probaly
> > > > > > > > > > $150.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > what do would you say to someone
> > > > > > presenting
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive
> > > > been
> > > > > > > > looking to
> > > > > > > > > > buy
> > > > > > > > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what
> > to
> > > > get
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > start. ive also am going to
> > replace
> > > > the
> > > > > > mic,
> > > > > > > > sm57
> > > > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > > > > Nady makes these starpower mics
> > for 7$
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone
> > > > advice.
> > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > > going to
> > > > > > > > > > > get right to work on your
> > suggestions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would
> > > > like to
> > > > > > > > send me
> > > > > > > > > > > thier own sample of just a home
> > > > recorded
> > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > show me what it should sound like,
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > use. that would probaly help me
> > out.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- mono_tones_1
> > > > <>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > busy figuring out recording
> > myself,
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > both
> > > > > > > > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > > > > > > > interested in your problems.
> > having
> > > > said
> > > > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > > > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you
> > > > are,
> > > > > > and my
> > > > > > > > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > > > > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice
> > can
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > > > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > > > > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm
> > > > about to
> > > > > > > > make?
> > > > > > > > > > btw,
> > > > > > > > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > > > > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > your new sample sound a lot
> > better
> > > > > > indeed,
> > > > > > > > BUT,
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > > > > > > > the extra lows are very mushy,
> > while
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > highs
> > > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > > > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this
> > > > might
> > > > > > result
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > > > > > > > mix, because the well defined
> > lows
> > > > will
> > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > > > out,
> > > > > > > > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > > > > > > > might drown in the other lows...
> > > > you'd
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > check
> > > > > > > > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > i checked your recording line in
> > the
> > > > > > 'old'
> > > > > > > > post,
> > > > > > > > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > > > > > > > working with that gear. I
> > noticed
> > > > there
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > quite
> > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > most if not all not professional
> > > > level.
> > > > > > Now,
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > > > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is,
> > that
> > > > > > adding
> > > > > > > > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > > > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > > > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly
> > > > blunt
> > > > > > rule
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > thumb
> > > > > > > > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > > > > > > > add anything that says
> > 'behringer'
> > > > till
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of,
> > but
> > > > get
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Not to put behringer or any
> > company
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > (I'm
> > > > > > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > > > > > the name
> > > > > > > > > > > > behringer metaforically here,
> > cause
> > > > > > everyone
> > > > > > > > > > puts
> > > > > > > > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > > > > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn
> > quite
> > > > > > > > frankly, I
> > > > > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > > > > > > > what they can offer for little
> > > > cash),
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > did a
> > > > > > > > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > > > > > > > recording stuff available for
> > the
> > > > > > masses,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and their stuff works pretty
> > well,
> > > > but
> > > > > > > > still:
> > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > > > > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff,
> > you'll
> > > > > > likely
> > > > > > > > be a
> > > > > > > > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > > > > > > > inexperienced use, you have more
> > > > cables,
> > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > > > > > > > that what your adding doesn't do
> > > > what
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > > > > > > > what you don't want it to do!
> > that's
> > > > at
> > > > > > > > least my
> > > > > > > > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > there's a moddeler in your line
> > -
> > > > have
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > tweaked
> > > > > > > > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > > > > > > > controls to the full, couldn't
> > the
> > > > > > problem
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > there?
> > > > > > > > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have one built in in the
> > vs880,
> > > > and
> > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > > > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > have you thought about changing
> > the
> > > > > > moddeler
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > > > > > > > before you say 'bedroom -
> > > > neighbours',
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > > > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban
> > Dance
> > > > Squad
> > > > > > > > recorded
> > > > > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > > > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini
> > marshall
> > > > -
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > know,
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > > > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in
> > front
> > > > -
> > > > > > > > massive
> > > > > > > > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > > > > > > > not just internet urban legend -
> > I
> > > > sold
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > guy
> > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a
> > book
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > recording.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > > > > > > > for less then what a decent
> > 12ax7
> > > > costs,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > they'll
> > > > > > > > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > > > > > > > recording then any piece of
> > > > equipment. I
> > > > > > > > bought
> > > > > > > > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > > > > > > > dummies' a while back, and as
> > crude
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > entry
> > > > > > > > > > level
> > > > > > > > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > > > > > > > helped me understand so much
> > about
> > > > what
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > F i
> > > > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe someone has better
> > suggestions
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > books.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep
> > this
> > > > > > thread
> > > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > > interested,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > WR
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > > > ,
> > > > > > "Neal
> > > > > > > > S."
> > > > > > > > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ive been workin furiously
> > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > > obtain
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > > > > > tone ! can you please check
> > out
> > > > > > > > sample9b.mp3
> > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the
> > files
> > > > > > section ?
> > > > > > > > let
> > > > > > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > > > > > if its more workable, or if i
> > > > should
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > back
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen
> > displayed a
> > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > dead
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > word that comes to mind is
> > > > > > "brittle."
> > > > > > > > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you
> > > > have
> > > > > > almost
> > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > low
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all
> > > > > > (harmonics
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with
> > reverb
> > > > > > pointed
> > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rich requires solving the
> > > > problem
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2
> > was
> > > > > > > > virtually
> > > > > > > > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the guitar is the problem,
> > > > either
> > > > > > > > strings or
> > > > > > > > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > set your controls. If by
> > direct
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > mean
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may
> > > > still be
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see why you're
> > troubled.
> > > > The
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > > > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > only rose to marginally
> > > > acceptable.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are links to quickly
> > > > doctored
> > > > > > > > version.
> > > > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to
> > your
> > > > > > > > originals.
> > > > > > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > boost I used, there's little
> > > > beef
> > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S."
> > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > please help me out. there
> > are 2
> > > > > > samples
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > section on this yahoo group.
> > the
> > > > > > folder
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > called
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and
> > cab
> > > > > > > > modeling.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much
> > just
> > > > DI
> > > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > both were recroded with fat
> > > > strat,
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > EQ (
> > > > > > > > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer
> > > > mixer
> > > > > > as a
> > > > > > > > pre
> > > > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a
> > > > little
> > > > > > > > reverb.
> > > > > > > > > > Also
> > > > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > were run through a tube amp
> > > > > > compressor,
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a
> > studio,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the guitar coming through
> > the
> > > > > > monitors.
> > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > samples differ ? would you
> > > > suggest i
> > > > > > > > work on
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the
> > strictly
> > > > DI
> > > > > > sound.
> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > both. and anything else you
> > can
> > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > of.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt
> > <phildirt@r...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try
> > it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S."
> > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try
> > most of
> > > > > > these,
> > > > > > > > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course ! if i post some
> > quick
> > > > > > riffs of
> > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can you tell me how they
> > > > compare
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gs and how you might go
> > about
> > > > > > adjusting
> > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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hey unlunf, i run adobe audition 1.5. I know it very
well cause ive been using Cool Edit for the longest
time. I thought that it might be something like this
to, so i read up on every single check box or option
AA had to offer ! I also mixdowned a wav file from a
cd i extracted, and ran it through AA, and it sounded
the same ! I record in 24/96 and convert it to 16/44.
Ive tried all kinds of combos though. Same thing with
my soundcard options. anything else you can think of ?
thanks !
--- unlunf <> wrote:
> Neal,
>
> Aha! A clue has arisen. You said that essentially,
> your samples
> sound pretty good when played on your computer, and
> that pre-recorded
> CD's sound good when played on your stereo, and yet,
> a recording of
> your sample on a CD sounds crappy on your stereo.
>
> Your recording software probably has a boatload of
> options, check to
> make sure that you haven't accidentally turned on
> any extraneous EQ
> settings in the "Record" function. Make sure that
> it's all set to
> the flattest EQ possible, or better yet, no EQ at
> all. Ditto for
> any effects that might have snuck in there, give 'em
> the boot.
>
>
> unlunf
>
> --- In , "Neal S."
> <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> >
> > attached to the out of my soundcard are yorkville
> > nearfields. there active and bi-amped. Everything
> i do
> > on them sounds awesome. the clarity and seperation
> is
> > amazing ( to me ) even when it comes out of the
> > preamp, POD, amp whatever. Even headphones my
> guitar
> > sounds pretty good. for example, the first sample
> > (samp1) i sent you, sounds good on my nearfields !
> (
> > am i tone def ) ?
> >
> > Its whenever i take my stuff to my stereo or
> boombox,
> > it sounds distant and muddy.
> >
> > my stereo is a newer rotel preamp, rotel power
> amp, to
> > 2 older NHT 2.5i speakers and matched sub. cds
> sound
> > awesome in it ! ( pro cds, not mine ) Although
> > direct2.mp3 sounded pretty good on it, but a
> little
> > muddy.
> >
> > maybe i dont know how to correctly judge my
> > nearfields. but if you say that direct2 is a good
> > sample and should be what a guitar should sound
> like
> > direct, im gonna do some listening comparisions.
> and
> > as soon as i get my sm57 im gonna do exactly what
> you
> > said and post that.
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> >
> >> No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it is
> just part
> >> of the spectrum. What are you listening on? What
> kind of
> >> amp and monitors or headphones?
> >>
> >> Phil
> >
>
>
>
>
phil,
I appreciate all your help. I can only go up from here
now ! what a differnce the sm57 made over the
audio-technica (10$) mic. I woulda played with it more
last night, but my girly roomate was all bitchin about
the noise. pfft, "square" []. Ill problay work with
what i got for now, and try to get the best sound i
can get with what i got. If i were to upgrade in the
future, id probaly invest in a better preamp (
replacing the behringer eurorack )
aight, im super jealous of the show tonight. have a
blast
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> No. Now you're at the point where you can start to
> work on tone. Yes,
> the 57 is fine. The amp may need a tuneup, the
> guitar too, and there's
> still lots of room for making it all work in a mix.
> It's a good place
> to do demos from - maybe - depending on how it fits
> in with a band.
>
> You're on your way. Just remember the rule -
> anything you change or add
> that does not help, set everything back to where you
> werre before
> rather than start changing everything in the chain.
>
> Phil
> i
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
> > phil, thanks !
> >
> > theoretically, now, shouldnt the tone from the amp
> be
> > good enough to get a decent recording to the point
> > where no 'after effects' should be added ?
> >
> > and how does my sm57 tone compare to that of a
> "really
> > good" recording ? i mean, the sm57 sounds WAY
> better
> > than that 10$ mic i bought, it cleared alot of
> things
> > up.
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> >
> > > You will notice how much that sounds like your
> > > direct-in signal. Now
> > > you know for sure that most of your trouble is
> with
> > > effects and/or
> > > connections/impedences.
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > phil,
> > > >
> > > > just got my hands on a SM57. Mic'd it exactly
> the
> > > way
> > > > you told me. Mic into the Mixer. No EQ, no
> nufin'.
> > > >
> > > > the sample is at ' amp57.mp3 '
> > > >
> > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > mp3's are muddy by definition, which is why
> > > Apple
> > > > > went to m4a. How are
> > > > > you outputting to your stereo? If it all
> goes
> > > south
> > > > > when you plug into
> > > > > your stereo, then you likely have an
> impedence
> > > > > mismatch.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know you are familiar with the sound of
> your
> > > > > stereo and headphones,
> > > > > but using anything other than professional
> > > studio
> > > > > monitors and
> > > > > professional studio headphones (I use AKG
> > > K-240S,
> > > > > about $125 and good
> > > > > enough to mix with, once you learn the
> > > difference
> > > > > between open air
> > > > > sound and headphones) gives you a distorted
> > > > > representation of the
> > > > > sound. Without your guitar in a band mix,
> you
> > > don't
> > > > > have much to
> > > > > compare with. Not a lot of solo guitar surf
> out
> > > > > there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, I did not say the guitar sounds good,
> but
> > > it
> > > > > does sound well
> > > > > within a workable range.
> > > > >
> > > > > As an aside, when you're thinking about surf
> > > guitar
> > > > > sound, and
> > > > > particularly if your among the admirers of
> the
> > > great
> > > > > sound Richie
> > > > > Podolor got back in the day, you should know
> > > that he
> > > > > did not use an
> > > > > amp. He plugged into the board directly and
> used
> > > an
> > > > > acoustic chamber
> > > > > for reverb. Not that you can do that live,
> but
> > > > > everything beyond the
> > > > > guitar should add to it, not detract.
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > > > >
> > > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > attached to the out of my soundcard are
> > > yorkville
> > > > > > nearfields. there active and bi-amped.
> > > Everything
> > > > > i do
> > > > > > on them sounds awesome. the clarity and
> > > seperation
> > > > > is
> > > > > > amazing ( to me ) even when it comes out
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > preamp, POD, amp whatever. Even headphones
> my
> > > > > guitar
> > > > > > sounds pretty good. for example, the first
> > > sample
> > > > > > (samp1) i sent you, sounds good on my
> > > nearfields !
> > > > > (
> > > > > > am i tone def ) ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Its whenever i take my stuff to my stereo
> or
> > > > > boombox,
> > > > > > it sounds distant and muddy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > my stereo is a newer rotel preamp, rotel
> power
> > > > > amp, to
> > > > > > 2 older NHT 2.5i speakers and matched sub.
> cds
> > > > > sound
> > > > > > awesome in it ! ( pro cds, not mine )
> Although
> > > > > > direct2.mp3 sounded pretty good on it, but
> a
> > > > > little
> > > > > > muddy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > maybe i dont know how to correctly judge
> my
> > > > > > nearfields. but if you say that direct2 is
> a
> > > good
> > > > > > sample and should be what a guitar should
> > > sound
> > > > > like
> > > > > > direct, im gonna do some listening
> > > comparisions.
> > > > > and
> > > > > > as soon as i get my sm57 im gonna do
> exactly
> > > what
> > > > > you
> > > > > > said and post that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, the bottom end is not dropping out,
> it
> > > is
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > part of the
> > > > > > > spectrum. What are you listening on?
> What
> > > kind
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > amp and monitors or
> > > > > > > headphones?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > phil,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i do notice that it sounds better.
> > > However,
> > > > > check
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > out. With the exact same set up im
> going
> > > to
> > > > > strum
> > > > > > > > chords. DO you think the bottem end is
> > > > > disapearing
> > > > > > > > like it did before when i play chords
> ? it
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > me, everything kinda muddies up fast.
> what
> > > do
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > think ?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > file is direct2.mp3
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > btw, im tracking down an sm57. should
> have
> > > one
> > > > > > > within
> > > > > > > > a couple days, ill post the samples as
> > > soon as
> > > > > i
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > it !
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt
> <>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm sure you can tell how much more
> > > > > definition
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > full-bodied the
> > > > > > > > > sound of the guitar is than any of
> the
> > > > > earlier
> > > > > > > > > samples, especially the
> > > > > > > > > low-E.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > One of several things this means is
> that
> > > the
> > > > > > > problem
> > > > > > > > > is what's between
> > > > > > > > > the guitar and the mp3, not the
> guitar.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now, do the same thing into the amp
> only
> > > > > with no
> > > > > > > > > color at all, just
> > > > > > > > > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp
> distortin).
> > > Use
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > m-56
> > > > > > > > > or m-57 mic and no
> > > > > > > > > eq or anythng in the board. Place
> the
> > > mic at
> > > > > 45
> > > > > > > > > degrees to the center
> > > > > > > > > of the best speaker cone, aimed at
> the
> > > very
> > > > > > > center,
> > > > > > > > > about 3 inches
> > > > > > > > > away.
> > > > > > > > > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > hey phil,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3.
> its
> > > just
> > > > > each
> > > > > > > > > string
> > > > > > > > > > plucked and sustained, straight
> into
> > > the
> > > > > > > board, no
> > > > > > > > > EQ
> > > > > > > > > > or nothin.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt
> > > <>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What does the guitar sound like
> > > plugged
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > directly
> > > > > > > > > > > - that is,
> > > > > > > > > > > completely un-colored and not
> > > amplified.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > More lows, but as someone noted,
> > > mushy
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > > > > > > > > not there to begin with.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Play a couple of fully sustained
> > > notes
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > guitar only on each
> > > > > > > > > > > string (open, no fretting). Put
> up
> > > that
> > > > > > > sample.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Trying to solve any process
> problem
> > > with
> > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > > > > > > > > together only leads to more
> chaos
> > > unless
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > sheer
> > > > > > > > > > > luck you step in it
> > > > > > > > > > > and the "it" is the answer
> instead
> > > of a
> > > > > > > variant
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > the pile you started
> > > > > > > > > > > with.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Guitar alone - what does it
> sound
> > > like?
> > > > > > > > > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do
> > > there?
> > > > > > > > > > > Only later can you insert more
> toys
> > > and
> > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > one at a time until
> > > > > > > > > > > you get it worked out. Each new
> toy
> > > may
> > > > > > > cause
> > > > > > > > > you to
> > > > > > > > > > > go back and twek
> > > > > > > > > > > something else, but at least you
> > > have a
> > > > > > > starting
> > > > > > > > > > > point. When you go
> > > > > > > > > > > back, tweak only one thing at a
> > > time. If
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > > do what yu want it
> > > > > > > > > > > tp, then reset everything to
> where
> > > they
> > > > > were
> > > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > > proceeding.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > While the new sample sounds
> better,
> > > it's
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > > > > > > > > not very pleasing. It is not
> very
> > > rich,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > > > > > > > > will be less harshly judged.
> It's
> > > > > certainly
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > > > > > > > > not strong to begin with,
> doctoring
> > > is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > get the best
> > > > > > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S."
> <>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your
> > > email,
> > > > > > > couldnt
> > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > come at a better time, because
> > > your
> > > > > > > basically
> > > > > > > > > > > telling
> > > > > > > > > > > > me everything ive been kinda
> > > suddenly
> > > > > > > > > realizing
> > > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > this last week.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > let me first tell you the
> signal
> > > chain
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > sample
> > > > > > > > > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid
> state
> > > amp)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > behringer
> > > > > > > > > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96
> soundcard.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I could not for the life of
> > > squeeze
> > > > > > > anything
> > > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > the POD. I did get one
> acceptable
> > > > > sample,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > > > > the Eq turned up on everything
> to
> > > the
> > > > > max,
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > POD,
> > > > > > > > > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked
> > > module
> > > > > > > plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > when i
> > > > > > > > > > > > played quietly it sounded
> about
> > > the
> > > > > > > 'presense'
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd.
> > > however
> > > > > > > when i
> > > > > > > > > > > strummed
> > > > > > > > > > > > a chord it was all distortion
> > > because
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > max
> > > > > > > > > > > > volume.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > so i gave it up for the
> mic/amp
> > > combo,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x
> 3'
> > > with
> > > > > > > clothes
> > > > > > > > > ). my
> > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > saying i guess is "F the
> neighbors
> > > !"
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Now im very inexperienced at
> > > micing an
> > > > > > > amp, so
> > > > > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > > > > theres still plenty of room
> for
> > > that.
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > particular
> > > > > > > > > > > > sample it was placed about 2
> > > inches
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > grill
> > > > > > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR
> > > into
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > mixer.
> > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > EQ,
> > > > > > > > > > > > just whatever tone i got out
> of
> > > the
> > > > > amp.
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > i just bought a book ! its
> callled
> > > > > "modern
> > > > > > > > > > > recording
> > > > > > > > > > > > techniques" by huber and
> runstein.
> > > so
> > > > > i
> > > > > > > got my
> > > > > > > > > > > nose in
> > > > > > > > > > > > that. your right, i shoulda
> went
> > > here
> > > > > > > first.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear
> > > thing.
> > > > > i
> > > > > > > bought
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > behringer, cause well, they
> steal
> > > > > > > schematics
> > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of
> friends
> > > that
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > > > mackie
> > > > > > > > > > > i
> > > > > > > > > > > > know that when i presented
> them
> > > the
> > > > > > > behringer
> > > > > > > > > vs
> > > > > > > > > > > > mackie argument, they were
> only
> > > > > fighting
> > > > > > > my in
> > > > > > > > > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound
> quality'.
> > > > > none
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > less,
> > > > > > > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I subscribe to this free
> magazine
> > > > > called
> > > > > > > > > tapeop (
> > > > > > > > > > > > which if your a home recorder,
> you
> > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > > definitly
> > > > > > > > > > > > get )
> > > > > > > > > > > > anyway i recently bought their
> > > book of
> > > > > > > > > collection
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > articles ( surf content : they
> > > > > interviewd
> > > > > > > MOAM
> > > > > > > > > )
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > it seems like almost everyone
> is
> > > > > geting
> > > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > > > > albums
> > > > > > > > > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube
> pre
> > > mic
> > > > > > > amp,
> > > > > > > > > and a
> > > > > > > > > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely
> this
> > > isnt
> > > > > > > expensive
> > > > > > > > > > > gear, i
> > > > > > > > > > > > mean i could go buy all that
> used
> > > for
> > > > > > > probaly
> > > > > > > > > > > $150.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > what do would you say to
> someone
> > > > > > > presenting
> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks,
> ive
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > looking to
> > > > > > > > > > > buy
> > > > > > > > > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea
> what
> > > to
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > start. ive also am going to
> > > replace
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > mic,
> > > > > > > > > sm57
> > > > > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Nady makes these starpower
> mics
> > > for 7$
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > > heavily compared to the
> sm57/58.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > finally, thanks for the
> sound/tone
> > > > > advice.
> > > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > > > > going to
> > > > > > > > > > > > get right to work on your
> > > suggestions.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home
> would
> > > > > like to
> > > > > > > > > send me
> > > > > > > > > > > > thier own sample of just a
> home
> > > > > recorded
> > > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > show me what it should sound
> like,
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > > use. that would probaly help
> me
> > > out.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- mono_tones_1
> > > > > <>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > busy figuring out recording
> > > myself,
> > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > both
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > interested in your problems.
> > > having
> > > > > said
> > > > > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > > > > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as
> you
> > > > > are,
> > > > > > > and my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > scratch', so, really, my
> advice
> > > can
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps
> one
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > can elaborate on the points
> I'm
> > > > > about to
> > > > > > > > > make?
> > > > > > > > > > > btw,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the bottom so keep readin'
> ;-)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > your new sample sound a lot
> > > better
> > > > > > > indeed,
> > > > > > > > > BUT,
> > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the extra lows are very
> mushy,
> > > while
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > highs
> > > > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ...
> this
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > result
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > mix, because the well
> defined
> > > lows
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > > > > out,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > > > > > > > > might drown in the other
> lows...
> > > > > you'd
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > check
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > though.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > i checked your recording
> line in
> > > the
> > > > > > > 'old'
> > > > > > > > > post,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > working with that gear. I
> > > noticed
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > quite
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > most if not all not
> professional
> > > > > level.
> > > > > > > Now,
> > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > > > > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory
> is,
> > > that
> > > > > > > adding
> > > > > > > > > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > > > > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > > > > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the
> absurdly
> > > > > blunt
> > > > > > > rule
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > thumb
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > > > > > > > > add anything that says
> > > 'behringer'
> > > > > till
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it
> of,
> > > but
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not to put behringer or any
> > > company
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > (I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the name
> > > > > > > > > > > > > behringer metaforically
> here,
> > > cause
> > > > > > > everyone
> > > > > > > > > > > puts
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > goes for all cheap brands,
> adn
> > > quite
> > > > > > > > > frankly, I
> > > > > > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > what they can offer for
> little
> > > > > cash),
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > did a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > > > > > > > > recording stuff available
> for
> > > the
> > > > > > > masses,
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and their stuff works pretty
> > > well,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > still:
> > > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sound quality then
> pro-stuff,
> > > you'll
> > > > > > > likely
> > > > > > > > > be a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > inexperienced use, you have
> more
> > > > > cables,
> > > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that what your adding
> doesn't do
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > what you don't want it to
> do!
> > > that's
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > least my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > there's a moddeler in your
> line
> > > -
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > tweaked
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > controls to the full,
> couldn't
> > > the
> > > > > > > problem
> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > there?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have one built in in the
> > > vs880,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > have you thought about
> changing
> > > the
> > > > > > > moddeler
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > > > > > > > > before you say 'bedroom -
> > > > > neighbours',
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban
> > > Dance
> > > > > Squad
> > > > > > > > > recorded
> > > > > > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini
> > > marshall
> > > > > -
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > know,
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic
> in
> > > front
> > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > massive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > not just internet urban
> legend -
> > > I
> > > > > sold
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > guy
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy
> a
> > > book
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > recording.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > for less then what a decent
> > > 12ax7
> > > > > costs,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > they'll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > > > > > > > > recording then any piece of
> > > > > equipment. I
> > > > > > > > > bought
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > dummies' a while back, and
> as
> > > crude
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > entry
> > > > > > > > > > > level
> > > > > > > > > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > helped me understand so much
> > > about
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > F i
> > > > > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe someone has better
> > > suggestions
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > books.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for posting, let's
> keep
> > > this
> > > > > > > thread
> > > > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > > > interested,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > WR
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In
> > > > > ,
> > > > > > > "Neal
> > > > > > > > > S."
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ive been workin furiously
> > > trying
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > obtain
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > tone ! can you please
> check
> > > out
> > > > > > > > > sample9b.mp3
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the
> > > files
> > > > > > > section ?
> > > > > > > > > let
> > > > > > > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if its more workable, or
> if i
> > > > > should
> > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > back
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt
> <phildirt@r...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen
> > > displayed a
> > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > dead
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > word that comes to mind
> is
> > > > > > > "brittle."
> > > > > > > > > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and
> you
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > almost
> > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > low
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at
> all
> > > > > > > (harmonics
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with
> > > reverb
> > > > > > > pointed
> > > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rich requires solving
> the
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you said that
> sample 2
> > > was
> > > > > > > > > virtually
> > > > > > > > > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the guitar is the
> problem,
> > > > > either
> > > > > > > > > strings or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > set your controls. If by
> > > direct
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > > mean
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp
> may
> > > > > still be
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see why you're
> > > troubled.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a tone was once with
> Leslita
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only rose to marginally
> > > > > acceptable.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are links to
> quickly
> > > > > doctored
> > > > > > > > > version.
> > > > > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre
> to
> > > your
> > > > > > > > > originals.
> > > > > > > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > boost I used, there's
> little
> > > > > beef
> > > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S."
> > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please help me out.
> there
> > > are 2
> > > > > > > samples
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > section on this yahoo
> group.
> > > the
> > > > > > > folder
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > called
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head
> and
> > > cab
> > > > > > > > > modeling.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty
> much
> > > just
> > > > > DI
> > > > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both were recroded with
> fat
> > > > > strat,
> > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > EQ (
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always use ) and a
> behringer
> > > > > mixer
> > > > > > > as a
> > > > > > > > > pre
> > > > > > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and
> a
> > > > > little
> > > > > > > > > reverb.
> > > > > > > > > > > Also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were run through a tube
> amp
> > > > > > > compressor,
> > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a
> > > studio,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the guitar coming
> through
> > > the
> > > > > > > monitors.
> > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > samples differ ? would
> you
> > > > > suggest i
> > > > > > > > > work on
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the
> > > strictly
> > > > > DI
> > > > > > > sound.
> > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both. and anything else
> you
> > > can
> > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > of.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate
> this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt
> > > <phildirt@r...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's
> try
> > > it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S."
> > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try
> > > most of
> > > > > > > these,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > course ! if i post
> some
> > > quick
> > > > > > > riffs of
> > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can you tell me how
> they
> > > > > compare
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gs and how you might go
> > > about
> > > > > > > adjusting
> > > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages, bookmarks,
> files,
> > > > > polls,
> > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group
> > > > > "SurfGuitar101"
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > web.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from
> this
> > > > > group,
> > > > > > > send
> > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > > > email
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo!
> > > Groups is
> > > > > > > subject
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------
> Yahoo!
> > > Groups
> > > > > > > Sponsor
> > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > > > > > > > > > Get fast access to your
> favorite
> > > > > Yahoo!
> > > > > > > > > Groups.
> > > > > > > > > > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > > > > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > > > Visit
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files,
> polls,
> > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo!
> Groups
> > > > > Sponsor
> > > > > > > > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > > > > > > > Get fast access to your favorite
> > > Yahoo!
> > > > > > > Groups.
> > > > > > > > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > Visit
> > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls,
> > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
> > > Sponsor
> > > > > > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > > > > > Get fast access to your favorite
> Yahoo!
> > > > > Groups.
> > > > > > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > Visit
> > > > >
> > > > > > > for archived
> > > > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls,
> etc.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
> Sponsor
> > > > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo!
> > > Groups.
> > > > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > > > page
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > Visit
> > >
> > > > > for archived
> > > > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > --------------------~-->
> > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo!
> Groups.
> > > Make Yahoo! your home
> > > > page
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > Visit
>
> > > for archived
> > > > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive
> today at Network for
> > Good!
> >
>
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit
> for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Neal,
Good thing I said it was only a clue! <lol>
Wait, what's this:
> I also mixdowned a wav file from a cd i extracted, and
> ran it through AA, and it sounded the same!
The same as what? The original .wav extraction (good), or
the same as what happened to the recording of your ax (bad)?
And sadly I don't have Adobe's Audition (in any version),
so I'm not the one to dispense any advice on that. Hope
someone else here can help you out.
unlunf
--- In , "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
>
> hey unlunf, i run adobe audition 1.5. I know it very
> well cause ive been using Cool Edit for the longest
> time. I thought that it might be something like this
> to, so i read up on every single check box or option
> AA had to offer ! I also mixdowned a wav file from a
> cd i extracted, and ran it through AA, and it sounded
> the same ! I record in 24/96 and convert it to 16/44.
> Ive tried all kinds of combos though. Same thing with
> my soundcard options. anything else you can think of ?
> thanks !
>
> --- unlunf <unlunf@y...> wrote:
>
