MadScientist
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 2188
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 14 2009 12:37 PM
I use an OD pedal (Ibanez Tubescreamer) when I want to throw some edge on my sound, and the amp still sounds good to me. There is a pull out "channel" on the master volume, but I find it completely useless. I think it's a great all purpose amp. It's certainly a big loud clean and VERY heavy amp, so if that's what you are looking for, it's a winner. You're not going to get amp break up or raspiness very easily like you will with a DeVille or a tweed style. I've played Ska and rock through it as well as surf, and I find it very versatile. One thing I will say is the stock speakers really kind of suck. The get muddy with any sort of low end push. With a proper speaker upgrade (I've made it into a head, and play through a 2x15 cabinet), it'll scream however you want it to.
Happy hunting!
-Jamie
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TropicsHenri
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
Posts: 5
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 03:23 AM
A head you say? That's pretty cool. A friend of mine is working on a similar project with a Carvin combo he has. Do you have any pics?
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MadScientist
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 2188
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 08:30 AM
TropicsHenri
A head you say? That's pretty cool. A friend of mine is working on a similar project with a Carvin combo he has. Do you have any pics?
I could probably scare some up. I'll try to post some later tonight.
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 08:59 AM
The 135 watt Twin and Dual Showman Reverb amps are pretty much different from the earlier amps as they have ultralinear output transformers and circuits added to suppress parasitic oscillations. They are very difficult and expensive to "retro." On the plus side they are clean and loud as hell.
The "568" series Silverface amps can be easily converted to the "763" type bias adjustment.
It is easy to modify a combo amp into a head and cabinet configuration, or you can by the cabinets from one of the many guys out there doing that very thing. I've converted a bunch over.
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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WaimeaBay
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 969
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 09:25 AM
TropicsHenri
Hey MadScientist!,
WaimeaBay - I've also read that the Silverface can be blackfaced but is a lot trickier with the 135W models due to a change in the Bias structure for the tubes. Don't quote me on this but I think the Blackface work with a bias pot while the Silverface have a balance bias which is a lot harder to set correctly. Like I said, I'm not a tech expert but I've heard bits and pieces about this model.
wait, I am confused. I thought the RI is a 65, which would make it modeled off a blackface era amp?
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merc50
Joined: Jul 03, 2007
Posts: 149
Flower Mound, Texas
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 09:29 AM
I figured the Twin would win because of the clean loud volume aspect for surf, but I kind of thought the DR would fair a little better.
Granted I am a no talent hack and not a pro like most of you but I really love the DR.
What is it that you guys have against it?
I'm not saying any of you hate it, I am just wondering if it is the volume, the break up, or what that turns you off of it?
Do any of you have them, or how about both?
Just curious...
— www.kingvoodoo.blogspot.com
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MadScientist
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 2188
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 10:25 AM
I am actually VERY impressed with the Deluxe Reverb. They are fantastic amps, and sound great when you push them (which doesn't take much). For surf though, I want it loud and clean, so the twin works better in that case. 22W vs 85-135W for me is no contest in this regard. It's all about what you want to use it for.
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 10:47 AM
Also, I've found that the Deluxe reverb amp had problems keeping up with the complex wave form output of a Jazzmaster. It works much better with a Strat or Jaguar if you are trying to get much clean, FAT volume out of it.
They are great amps. I have owned several. No match for a Twin though. You can always dirty up a powerful amp with pedals, but you can't keep a small amp clean sounding as the volume increases. You don't get something for nothing.
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 11:18 AM
I bought a used Deluxe Reverb reissue about six months ago, and I have absolutely loved playing it. I initially bought it just to have something quieter to play in my basement, and was shocked how loud this thing actually is. I haven't played it with a band yet, but I'm fairly confident this thing could keep up with a full band in most circumstances.
With a Strat through a reverb unit and then into the Vibrato channel, with volume on 6 and Treble around 4 and Bass around 5, I get a slightly overdriven fat tone that I think is simply fantastic. But then, I think that a really clean tone is way overrated for surf music - Dick Dale, Eddie Bertrand, Randy Holden, Jim Messina, the Atlantics, these guys were NOT playing clean. Their amps were cranked! I usually use a '64 Showman for live playing, mostly cause our drummer and rhythm guitarist are very loud, but in the small clubs that we played, that really amounts to a volume assault on the audience. A Showman made sense for DD playing those large dance halls, but it's overkill for what I (and probably most of us here) use it for. A Twin Reverb is the same thing, and it might be even cleaner than a Showman (that's always my perception).
Anyway, just a few of my recent thoughts. I'll be sticking with the Showman (or maybe a Surfer?) for live use for a while, but I'm really starting to consider whether a smaller amp may be a better way to go - and tell our drummer to lay off the Wheaties and Red Bull! I think Dave Wronski may have it right (as usual!) - combine a 12" speaker with a 40W output section (a strangely rare combination in the Fender combo lineup). Deluxe Reverb's 22W may be just a tad underpowered, though I'll have to test that soon....
— Ivan
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psychonaut
Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1305
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 11:51 AM
IvanP
I think that a really clean tone is way overrated for surf music - Dick Dale, Eddie Bertrand, Randy Holden, Jim Messina, the Atlantics, these guys were NOT playing clean. Their amps were cranked! I usually use a '64 Showman for live playing, mostly cause our drummer and rhythm guitarist are very loud, but in the small clubs that we played, that really amounts to a volume assault on the audience. A Showman made sense for DD playing those large dance halls, but it's overkill for what I (and probably most of us here) use it for. A Twin Reverb is the same thing, and it might be even cleaner than a Showman (that's always my perception)....
I agree, I think DD sounded clean on some of his early records is because the studio and producer just simply would not let him turn up to concert levels. listen to him now using the same gear, and he's pretty dirty sounding. It all depends on the venue. I use a 40 watt Pro Reverb, and I'm constantly battling with sound guys, even in bigger venues. For me my tone lives at about 7 on my amp, that's where the note really blossoms, but that seems too loud for some.
With regard to the original topic, I would stay away from a master volume twin, they may be clean and loud, but in my opinion are very lifeless and constipated sounding. They lack the responsiveness of the Blackface or earlier circuits. Most of the Silverfaceamps were engineered to be as clean as possible at the expense of all the pleasing qualities of a good tube amp
A Deluxe Reverb would be a little loud for most bedroom playing, and you'd have to crank it to distortion levels in order to play against a loud drummer
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http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11077
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 12:02 PM
Ivan, your style is a bit more forgiving as (I think) you don't have your dwell up very high. Those of us who play with lots of drip start to lose it once the amp starts to distort. Look at Mikko (of Laika) his guitar tone was fantastic and had plenty of huevos coming from his 1x12 combo. Maybe I'll get there some day, but for now I need the headroom.
Perhaps the ideal small gig amp for you is a Vibroverb like Ferenc plays. Take out the 10" speakers and put in a single 15". That brownface vibrato is a dream and once you have your Gomez, you're going to wish your smaller amp had the same circuit.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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MadScientist
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 2188
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 12:10 PM
IvanP
I think that a really clean tone is way overrated for surf music - Dick Dale, Eddie Bertrand, Randy Holden, Jim Messina, the Atlantics, these guys were NOT playing clean. Their amps were cranked! I usually use a '64 Showman for live playing, mostly cause our drummer and rhythm guitarist are very loud, but in the small clubs that we played, that really amounts to a volume assault on the audience. A Showman made sense for DD playing those large dance halls, but it's overkill for what I (and probably most of us here) use it for. A Twin Reverb is the same thing, and it might be even cleaner than a Showman (that's always my perception).
Ivan, I agree somewhat. These are all great example of players with fantastic tone, but they are also not the only tonal reps out there. I'm not going to pretend to know what everyone is playing through, but there are some great examples of big, clear and perfectly defined tones that I have only found with tons of head room. For me, I think it's a control thing. I like that I can color my sound my way, and when I want to.
On the flipside, I'll bring up The Surge in Cincinatti again. Eddie playing through that Bandmaster was one of the most incredible sounds I may have ever heard. There was magic coming out of those speakers. He was pushing that amp just enough, and that strain sounded GREAT. The bottom line is different songs call for different sounds... a concept I'm sure everyone here is familiar with. In my perfect world, I would have a couple of different amps sitting around that I could switch to as needed. Money and space prevent this, of course, so for now, my Twin is my best friend in the amp world. Good tone is good tone, I don't care where it comes from.
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MadScientist
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 2188
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 12:14 PM
DannySnyder
Ivan, your style is a bit more forgiving as (I think) you don't have your dwell up very high. Those of us who play with lots of drip start to lose it once the amp starts to distort. Look at Mikko (of Laika) his guitar tone was fantastic and had plenty of huevos coming from his 1x12 combo. Maybe I'll get there some day, but for now I need the headroom.
Perhaps the ideal small gig amp for you is a Vibroverb like Ferenc plays. Take out the 10" speakers and put in a single 15". That brownface vibrato is a dream and once you have your Gomez, you're going to wish your smaller amp had the same circuit.
Those Vibroverb's are GREAT, and I can't agree with you more about vibrato. It's easily the best vibrato I've heard. My dad has one of these, and I think they would be great for recording or mic'd playing. It's just not quite enough power for me to play live with.
Really great amp, though.
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Rio
Joined: May 22, 2006
Posts: 500
Hamilton, Ontario
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 12:55 PM
I agree with Ivan, I think good surf tone is not totally clean, the amp has to be pushed a bit.
I use a Deluxe at rehearsals, but there's only one or two club gigs I'd consider bringing it to... similarly, I think I've used my Showman once, and there's maybe one or two other gigs where I could have used the extra volume.
Otherwise, a 40w SF Vibrolux, or a 6G6-B Bassman (50w?), are my preferred amps for most shows. If I need to get a bit more grit at a lower volume, I use an MXR micro-amp, which gives a pretty natural sounding hint of overdrive, as needed.
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Ruhar
Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 3909
San Diego, CA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 12:56 PM
IvanP
I bought a used Deluxe Reverb reissue about six months ago, and I have absolutely loved playing it. I initially bought it just to have something quieter to play in my basement, and was shocked how loud this thing actually is. I haven't played it with a band yet, but I'm fairly confident this thing could keep up with a full band in most circumstances.
With a Strat through a reverb unit and then into the Vibrato channel, with volume on 6 and Treble around 4 and Bass around 5, I get a slightly overdriven fat tone that I think is simply fantastic. But then, I think that a really clean tone is way overrated for surf music - Dick Dale, Eddie Bertrand, Randy Holden, Jim Messina, the Atlantics, these guys were NOT playing clean. Their amps were cranked! I usually use a '64 Showman for live playing, mostly cause our drummer and rhythm guitarist are very loud, but in the small clubs that we played, that really amounts to a volume assault on the audience. A Showman made sense for DD playing those large dance halls, but it's overkill for what I (and probably most of us here) use it for. A Twin Reverb is the same thing, and it might be even cleaner than a Showman (that's always my perception).
Anyway, just a few of my recent thoughts. I'll be sticking with the Showman (or maybe a Surfer?) for live use for a while, but I'm really starting to consider whether a smaller amp may be a better way to go - and tell our drummer to lay off the Wheaties and Red Bull! I think Dave Wronski may have it right (as usual!) - combine a 12" speaker with a 40W output section (a strangely rare combination in the Fender combo lineup). Deluxe Reverb's 22W may be just a tad underpowered, though I'll have to test that soon....
Ivan, I really think you are on to something here. My Dual Showman sounds really good when its cranked, but honestly I can never crank it in the clubs we play. Its just not practical/possible. I'm lucky to be able to get it to 5 on the volume. I could scale down the number of shows we play to only include venues where volume is not an issue, but then we might only play a couple of times a year. That's just not my thing.
I'm seriously considering getting a 40 watt head. I would probably end up using it in 99% of all of our gigs due to the volume issues alone. Because unless the Showman is opened up a bit, it just sounds anemic and lifeless to my ears.
— Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
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zak
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 01:02 PM
This post has been removed by the author.
Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 21:34:08
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Kman1
Joined: Aug 29, 2008
Posts: 694
Surf City
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 04:05 PM
As the only reissues I've played other than my Deluxe weren't broken in, do all the BF reissues sound alike ?
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Sonichris
I also like to think that all early 60's fender equipment is happy to be playing surf music again. After all, its the music it was meant to play.
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tonetti
Joined: Aug 20, 2008
Posts: 654
California
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 05:33 PM
I picked up a silverface twin a few weeks ago, and I really like it. Nice reverb and loud as hell. I also have a Black-Face bassman, head and 2x12 cab, and lately I prefer the sound of the twin over the bassman. I am a MOAM? fan, and prefer a bit dirtier of a tone, Especially with my Mosrite, I am able to get a really close MOAM? sound. It really comes down to what you like.
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casey
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 521
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 07:23 PM
I usually use a 1966 Super Reverb (40w) for playing out. Bought a 1966 Vibrolux (also 40w) to use for the smaller places but it doesn't sound as good as the Super to me, even in smaller areas. Something about the 4 x 10" speakers of the Super maybe. It can move a lot of air and have a "presence" without sounding like its working too hard, up to about "6" on the volume. Personally, I like the fact that the tone has a little grit or dirt in it.
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11077
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 07:59 PM
Ruhar
Ivan, I really think you are on to something here. My Dual Showman sounds really good when its cranked, but honestly I can never crank it in the clubs we play. Its just not practical/possible. I'm lucky to be able to get it to 5 on the volume. I could scale down the number of shows we play to only include venues where volume is not an issue, but then we might only play a couple of times a year. That's just not my thing.
I'm seriously considering getting a 40 watt head. I would probably end up using it in 99% of all of our gigs due to the volume issues alone. Because unless the Showman is opened up a bit, it just sounds anemic and lifeless to my ears.
Just a thought Ryan, have you ever tried a bit of distortion pedal through your showman? Maybe a tubescreamer set low, just to get a growl going. May be a lot cheaper than buying another vintage amp.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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