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Kman1
No one said Surf has to be clean, look at Zak and the Treblemakers. They make fuzzboxes Surfy. No suck-up.

I wish more bands sounded as good as the Treblemakers, having just aquired 2 CDs (thanks Zak) I have them on non stop this month. I'll bet they sound even better with Zak's new Bassman! There are endless posts here about how certain amps are not "clean" enough for surf, a notion I disagree with. However I believe Zak's fuzz is more a nod to Davie Allan, which I don't think is associated with surf but bikers, there's room for everyone. It sure is nice to hear something a little different on an instro album. The Surfites use fuzz to great effect on Escapades in Space too.
But to get back on track, the Princeton would be a great amp but who would pay that high price when the Deluxe is about the same price. I'm guessing the sales on the Princeton are low.

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zak

Kman1
Zak, you mean Iggy and the Stooges? I was wondering what kind of OD/distortion. For some reason, I never thought of fuzz.

Yes sir, Iggy & the Stooges...Fun House, Raw Power, and their s/t debut LP.
I am not 100% sure what kind of fuzz Ron Asheton used but I've heard Mosrite Fuzzrite mentioned a LOT.

If you like the Stooges, check out Radio Birdman, great underrated Australian band (guess where they took their name from?) in a similar vein.

Sweet, because I liked their tone. Really sandpaper sounding. Thanks for clearing that up. Zak, you should pu Bad as* surfer in your sig. My BFDR's reverb tank cancels out a lot of the OD, but at 5 or 6, which is giggable, it growls a bit, which I think is awesome.

Sonichris
I also like to think that all early 60's fender equipment is happy to be playing surf music again. After all, its the music it was meant to play.

Kman1
you should pu Bad as* surfer in your sig.

I would predict that Zak would kill himself before he ever put that in his sig.

zak

dannylectro
I totally agree. Whoever thinks you need a Jaguar/Jazzmaster and Showman with a 15" speaker to play surf music is just subscribing to the "trendy" surf crowd.

Huh?? There's a "trendy" surf crowd?
What, they have haute couture pocket protectors?

I use a Showman...because I need the VOLUME. What does "trendy" have to do with it? If I could get away with using a smaller amp, I would - my brownface amp sounds better to me. I don't think anyone would mistake us for a "trad" band, either.

I don't really see why you equate getting the right gear for the job with trendiness. If you were a house painter and someone handed you a paint roller, would you say "no thanks, I prefer to use a TOOTHBRUSH because I am a vastly original trailblazer, and rollers are for sheep-like trendy conformists?"

dannylectro
who can argue that people like Link Wray (who almost never played clean OR used reverb) had awesome tone for instumental music.

Sure...but as much as I love Link, it ain't surf. Link also came from an era where a 40 watt guitar amp was "really loud and powerful" - in case you didn't notice he was playing Marshalls and Twins for the last 20-something years of his life, not a Premier with punctured speakers.

I thought you were the guy who said he didn't play Fender guitars or like JBL speakers? I should have said "typical" not trendy. You sure love to correct people don't ya geesh...

And yes I know Link wasn't using his early gear toward the end. I saw him play live 3 times before he passed. I was refering to the sounds on his classic recordings

zak
Some amps just aren't loud enough for a specific playing situation. Sure you can take a small amp and mic it and run it at lower volumes, but if I can't hear myself loud and clear on stage, I tend to pick much harder to compensate and subtlety and dynamics go straight out the window.

I have noticed that smaller amps just don't have the low-end "voice" of larger amps but that's probably the speaker cab size at work. Some one of these fine days when I don't feel lazy (not bloody likely) I'll have to plug my Blues Jr into my Twin's speaker cab.

zak
Most of the 60s surf stuff doesn't have antiseptic squeaky-clean guitar - with the exception of bands that recorded under ideal conditions in expensive studios (the Astronauts are a great example, along with Richie Polodor's stuff). Most bands were recording in low-budget or makeshift studios, studios that were ill-equipped to handle lots of volume. I hear a lot of semi-dirty guitar sounds on 60s surf, although it is hard to say for sure if it is a byproduct of the recording process or the sound of a cranked amp. Most teenage kids playing surf in the 60s probably didn't have the luxury of owning a small amp solely for recording purposes...

Good point. ALL recordings, Surf, Blues, Rock, Jazz, Classical, you name it, are a product not only of the musicians but also of the studio they were recorded in. That's one of the reasons that "nailing" the sound of a specific recording can be almost impossible, the effects you hear may not be from the gutiarist's bag of trick but instead they could be the engineer's
work or quite possibly a bit of both.

zak
Davie Allan for sure! Along with a whole bunch of mid-60s garage and psych, 60s eleki, early Stooges, and a whole lot of other stuff...I'm a fuzz addict. I don't use it all the time, though - half the time I'm playing semi-clean with a reverb tank, but I always like a little hair and lots of mids in the sound - it isn't 100% clean, more on the verge of where the amp starts to growl a little when you hit it harder, I like the touch-sensitivity of a loud amp on the very verge of overdrive...and that's a lot closer to what I hear on my favorite 60s surf recordings than "amp on 3" clean sound.

I'm basically a "clean" guy but for hard-edge Blues etc. I do like playing amps that are on the edge of breakup. Some of the vintage Surf walked that line, it wasn't all Showman amps and knee-deep reverb.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I heartily agree with Ivan, Zak, and others, and let's once and for all do away with the "surf == clean" myth. Some of the best surf tones and songs have a pretty hairy guitar sound to them.

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Stormtiger
Before anyone drops a bundle on a reissue Princeton, I suggest looking around first. Last night I found a great little shop in Venice, Timewarp Music. I saw an all original Silver Face Princeton Reverb in great condition for less than $600, an all original Black face Princeton Reverb for $865, less than the reissue.

I whole heartily agree, however in the mainstream market the prices have soared on the Princeton's, ie. eBay, gBase etc.. I was at GC where I A/B'd a real '65 and the Reissue. The price on the real one was $1950 vs. the $899. The $899 won out since the sound was identical to my ears. I had been looking on eBay for Blackfaces and they were going for $1400 on up.

If you can find a shop like that one, it would be worth checking it out.