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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Reissue '65 Princeton Reverb Amp

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Shocked check it out!
Fender '65 Princeton Reverb 15W 1x10 Tube Guitar Combo Amp (Black)

-Kyle

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For that kinda cake I'd want something not PCB. Either an early Silver Faced PR, or a PTP clone.

For about $100 more you can get a reissue Deluxe Reverb which is more than just a good-sounding and very expensive studio/practice amp. The Deluxe has nearly twice the power and a 12" speaker.

Or you can get a clean used Deluxe on ebay forsignificantly than a new Princeton.

While a Princeton Reverb is a nice amp (I've had three of the hand-wired ones), a Deluxe will kick its ass in every way. I think Fender has grossly overpriced the RI Princeton Reverb.

Jack
aka WoodyJ

The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money
(1978-1990)

There are reasons to get a Princeton reverb. It isn't going to be anything great for surf. But if you play something that you want some natural break up with, then this wouldn't be a bad amp since it will break up fairly quicky at a lower volume than the Deluxe. I don't think it is a good idea to just buy a Princeton Reverb without playing a deluxe or really getting to test out the Princeton. It is a lower power amp, they can get loud, but it isn't going to be surf clean.

JakeDobner
There are reasons to get a Princeton reverb. It isn't going to be anything great for surf. But if you play something that you want some natural break up with, then this wouldn't be a bad amp since it will break up fairly quicky at a lower volume than the Deluxe. I don't think it is a good idea to just buy a Princeton Reverb without playing a deluxe or really getting to test out the Princeton. It is a lower power amp, they can get loud, but it isn't going to be surf clean.

I honestly don't know why so many here think that surf music has to be so "clean" and loud. When I listen to old recordings, I'm not hearing the "clean" sound that I hear so much of with modern bands. Ferenc sounded awfully good driving his Vibrolux at the SG101 convention. In the early days guitarists tended to have their own sound, now I hear a lot of one sound because so many are using Showmans with Jaguars or Jazzmasters, which is good but not on every song. The Princeton would be great for recording surf music, I've done it and heard others like Dave Wronski do it. I wouldn't buy a reissue though because the cost is way too high for you get, better to get an old one.

A lead guitar on a princeton with a full-band sans mic'ing the amp will sound pretty overdriven when playing surf. Just not the sound 95% of the people go for. I wouldn't mind much. Our lead guitarist plays a Tremolux which is just barely loud enough to cut through the mix, although I wish it were louder. Not too clean, but when you are playing lead overdrive is less noticeably.

I agree that there are just a ton of Showmans, although I don't see them partnered with Jazzmasters too often(lots of strats), but I think why everybody sounds similar is because most people are aiming for, and have been practicing for, that familiar trad sound. There are plenty of people who play Showmans that don't quite get that sound. Amps and guitars are important, but everybody has their own style that they develop.

My problem with the reissue isn't the way it sounds, it is the price point it is at. At least for now, a very clean early' 70's PR can be had for less than that. The Princeton is one of the Few silverface amps that CBS didn't mess up. They are superb recording amps.

But, IMHO, unless Fender reconsiders the near-$900 price, I don't see this one being a big seller for them. Especially when all the major online sellers have Deluxe Reverbs for $949, no tax, no shipping!

I do forsee discounts on Princetons for those who are patient....or price increases on the Deluxe Reverb.

Jack
aka WoodyJ

The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money
(1978-1990)

I honestly don't know why so many here think that surf music has to be so "clean" and loud. When I listen to old recordings, I'm not hearing the "clean" sound that I hear so much of with modern bands.

One the reasons you don't hear the clean sound on those old recordings is because of the capability of the recording gear of that time. The recording industry has made huge inroads and advances since those days of yore.

In the days of vinyl, bass notes too low would make the needle vibrate too much and skip out of the groove. Frequency response curves would change from the outside track to the inside track of an LP. Not to mention on a 45 you only had 3 minutes to work with.

These days if you want the old tape "wow & flutter" you have to buy a plug-in for your DAW to get it...:-)

But then again, that's what made the sound as unique as it was and hard for bands to imitate.

When you find some of the old "masters" available on CD now, keep in mind those masters were probably optimized for vinyl. Even "re-mastered" recordings can only use the original recordings of the time and those were almost always done with vinyl destinations in mind. Not CD.

As for MP3's that seem to dominate, I think Craig Anderton's response to what he thought of MP3 quality was best I'd ever heard, "What smells worse, 10 day old garbage or 11 day old garbage?"

I agree that too many tend to use the same equipment for playing and that tends to limit the tonal range of the new bands but that's their choice. And it's fans, not other musicians, that get the ultimate choice of voting with their money/time as to whether it was a good choice. At least I hope there are more fans than bands...:-)

Mel

Could be $600 used which is a sweet deal in my opinion.

As for MP3's that seem to dominate, I think Craig Anderton's response to what he thought of MP3 quality was best I'd ever heard, "What smells worse, 10 day old garbage or 11 day old garbage?"

MP3s can sound pretty good if they are at 320kbps for example, pretty large file, CD quality. And it all depends on your speakers. Laptop speakers...ouch. Also, I think the term MP3 refers to any digital music, so lossless files like .flac and apple's proprietary format can sound absolutely amazing.

but I think why everybody sounds similar is because most people are aiming for, and have been practicing for, that familiar trad sound.

I'm sure you are right, but I don't think the sound is really trad, or they are going for only one trad sound. On the Rhino/Guitar Player complilation every guitarist sounds very different from each other, and they were all recorded similarly. I hear a lot of overkill on the reverb these days and that is probably what I don't like, the ringing and muddy tone that doesn't cut through the mix so well. I'm guessing people in the early days did not max out the mix and dwell which seems to be popular these days.

This post has been removed by the author.

Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 19:11:35

MP3s can sound pretty good if they are at 320kbps for example, pretty large file, CD quality. And it all depends on your speakers. Laptop speakers...ouch. Also, I think the term MP3 refers to any digital music, so lossless files like .flac and apple's proprietary format can sound absolutely amazing.

That 320 kbps is only 160 kbps if the recording is "stereo". None the less, MP3 is a lossy compression scheme compared to raw audio formats. And it has to be since there is no other way to take a three minute song (typically recording size is 10 meg of raw audio per minute at 24/96) and cram that 30 meg file into 3.5 meg. Something has to give. That something is sound quality.

Speakers are supposed to reproduce the sound fed to them. I don't think they can really make up sound for what's missing..;-) Least they aren't supposed to.

It's more a question of what's acceptable to each individual. That boils down to personal tastes. Be it gear, sound or that gas guzzler we park in the driveway...:-)

I know when I buy an amp, I take my guitar(s) and I play the darn thing. I would never buy a guitar or amp from anywhere I couldn't try it out first. Unless it was a collectable item and I had no intention of ever using it..:-)

Mel

Something has to give. That something is sound quality.

I am pretty sure that an MP3 file is superior quality to an old 45 or LP played on a tiny mono phonograph, or a transistor radio with a 2 inch speaker, which is probably how most people listened to music in the early 60s.

I am pretty sure that an MP3 file is superior quality to an old 45 or LP played on a tiny mono phonograph, or a transistor radio with a 2 inch speaker, which is probably how most people listened to music in the early 60s.

Good thing we're not in the 60's anymore, although I always had a good stereo system even then.

An MP3 file played through the same 2" speaker or a tiny mono amp is going to sound about as pathetic as the vinyl did. That's for sure.

In current times we can play that vinyl through a decent audiophiles stereo system you'd run that MP3 through and you have the same difference as tube vs transistor sound.

And the arguments over which one is better would probably go on as long too...:-)

As always, to each, his own.

Mel

Back to the subject of the new Princeton R.I.

I played and liked it. I pretty much love blackface Fenders of all stripes so that is no big surprise. The price difference between this and the Deluxe R.I. was about $50 and as much as the new Princeton appeals to me I would much prefer the 12" speaker and larger cabinet of the Deluxe. The theoretical difference in volume (assuming equal speaker efficiency) is 1.6 db, well below the threshold of perception. My own impression was that the Princeton broke up noticably earlier than the Deluxe and that its overdriven tone was not as smooth as a Deluxe in overdrive.

IMO, that makes it a great amp for a little Rock band but probably not as good for Surf music unless you are playing coffee-houses and similar sized venues (and have a drummer that is good at keeping the volume down).

I'm saddened by the problems Fender has had getting a Princeton to market. The Princeton recording amp that I demo'd was very disappointing to me. It didn't sound like any Fender I'd ever heard and the particular one I played sounded exactly like a Vox AC-30 would just before it burst into flames. It was a ratty, nasty sound. It might work if you wanted a garage-band sound but that's about it IMHO.

Likewise, while the new Princeton seems much, much nicer sounding it's biggest competitor will almost certainly be its big brother, the Deluxe. I just can't imagine walking out of a store with a Princeton when I could get a Deluxe (and the 12" speaker that goes with it) for $50 more. Heck, skip Starbucks for a couple of weeks and you are there.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Last edited: Oct 14, 2008 11:24:07

Maybe portability is factoring into the pricing spread.

It may not make sense for bands that need to move air, but the non-band or small playing venue baby-boomer market tends to have back issues.

The Deluxe Reverb RI is 42 pounds. The Princeton Reverb RI is 34 pounds.

There is a market for a combo amp that maximizes the Reverb / Weight ratio.

Personally, I think the amp that does it best is the G Reverb in 1x12 format (probably about 25 pounds).

Paul

Paul

ColtsSurf
There is a market for a combo amp that maximizes the Reverb / Weight ratio.

Personally, I think the amp that does it best is the G Reverb in 1x12 format (probably about 25 pounds).

Paul

No question about it, the G reverb is the way to go if you have the scratch.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Stormtiger

JakeDobner
There are reasons to get a Princeton reverb. It isn't going to be anything great for surf. But if you play something that you want some natural break up with, then this wouldn't be a bad amp since it will break up fairly quicky at a lower volume than the Deluxe. I don't think it is a good idea to just buy a Princeton Reverb without playing a deluxe or really getting to test out the Princeton. It is a lower power amp, they can get loud, but it isn't going to be surf clean.

I honestly don't know why so many here think that surf music has to be so "clean" and loud. When I listen to old recordings, I'm not hearing the "clean" sound that I hear so much of with modern bands. Ferenc sounded awfully good driving his Vibrolux at the SG101 convention. In the early days guitarists tended to have their own sound, now I hear a lot of one sound because so many are using Showmans with Jaguars or Jazzmasters, which is good but not on every song. The Princeton would be great for recording surf music, I've done it and heard others like Dave Wronski do it. I wouldn't buy a reissue though because the cost is way too high for you get, better to get an old one.

I totally agree. Whoever thinks you need a Jaguar/Jazzmaster and Showman with a 15" speaker to play surf music is just subscribing to the "trendy" surf crowd. Although several were, many original and classic surf recordings were not done with this typical setup. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of the Jaguar/Showman/reverb unit combo but who can argue that people like Link Wray (who almost never played clean OR used reverb) had awesome tone for instumental music.

WoodyJ
....or price increases on the Deluxe Reverb.

I'm glad I got mine for $850 including tax. Guitar Center's Labor Day sale, and 40th Anniversary Sale worked together to get me a discount.

Sonichris
I also like to think that all early 60's fender equipment is happy to be playing surf music again. After all, its the music it was meant to play.

No one said Surf has to be clean, look at Zak and the Treblemakers. They make fuzzboxes Surfy. No suck-up.

Sonichris
I also like to think that all early 60's fender equipment is happy to be playing surf music again. After all, its the music it was meant to play.

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