Ruhar
Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 3909
San Diego, CA
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 10:11 AM
After playing around for a while, you realize what venues treat you reasonably fairly and those that don't. I've had similar experiences to Rio: Hip club, seems to do fairly well regarding alchohol sales, and bang, little to no $$ for the band.
We definitely don't do this for the money either, but when a business is making money partly off your labor/commitment/time away from family, etc, you should be compensated. The venues that we play repeatedly will pay a pretty consistant amount.
Unless you negotiate up front with the venue on a guarantee amt. vs. something like a % of door, % of alchohol, etc. its always risky; especially with a venue you don't have a relationship with. I remember Zak saying that he negotiates an upfront fee with the venue and holds them to it because of all the B.S. that can ocurr with alchohol sales and door accounting. I'd like to start doing that more and more.
— Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook
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casey
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 521
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 10:11 AM
We play all instrumentals and have a regular once-a-month gig at one of the nicer restaurant/bars in town (Richmond, VA). They have live music there 5 nights a week and rotate different bands through. We get $300 for 4 of us for playing on a weeknight, and feel lucky to have a steady gig there. We did have to branch out and include a lot of material that's not strictly "surf". but that's OK. The reality in our town is that there are a lot more (many quite good) bands looking for work than there are places for them to play.
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MightySurfLords
Joined: Jun 24, 2007
Posts: 384
Sparks,Nv.
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 10:13 AM
Around here, the clubs dont want to pay anything, and they dont have to anymore because the kids in their loud crap bands will play for free, now the clubs expect everyone to play for free.
I have played only a couple clubs for "the door prize", but it's like mentioned before, they let in all their friends and regulars, then it's up to the band to bring any crowd above that.
Things are changing though in Reno, I have had two bar owners actually contact me about playing paying gigs. We are the only instrumental surf band in Reno, and it's time we got recognized!
— The Mighty Surf Lords- Sparks,Nv.
"Praise The Lords"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHTDYfy0xM8
www.myspace.com/themightysurflords
www.cdbaby.com/cd/mightysurflords
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HBkahuna
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 1778
Star, Idaho. Formerly lived in Surf City USA.
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 10:17 AM
MightySurfLords
Around here, the clubs dont want to pay anything, and they dont have to anymore because the kids in their loud crap bands will play for free, now the clubs expect everyone to play for free.
I have played only a couple clubs for "the door prize", but it's like mentioned before, they let in all their friends and regulars, then it's up to the band to bring any crowd above that.
Things are changing though in Reno, I have had two bar owners actually contact me about playing paying gigs. We are the only instrumental surf band in Reno, and it's time we got recognized!
I heard your CD. You guys are too good to give it away. Get something for your time.
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P2gee
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 264
Waco Texas
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 10:53 AM
HBkahuna
............ I did tell the guy the band sings "Tequila." he didn't think I was funny.
Anyone else get this kind of nonsense?
ROFL 
— 2012-2013: FILTHY POLAROIDS
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tormentos
Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 188
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 11:30 AM
The TEQUILA joke got me going!!!!
i can reaaaalllyyyy imagine the situation & the club owners face....
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
cherrs on that one!
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11053
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 11:48 AM
I think the SF Bay Area suffers from having too many bands and not enough venues. There must be literally hundreds of bands (maybe 1000's) vying for somewhere to play. Club owners know this.
I don't say we play for free all the time, sometimes we'll make $50(for all of us) 
It's great to say you won't play for free because it devalues your music, but then what - don't play at all? Play twice a year? Why bother having a band. We take any gig we can get. Everyone knows a live show is worth 10 practices. That has some value, right?
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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tenderfoot
Joined: Feb 01, 2007
Posts: 308
Ellicott City, Maryland
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 12:18 PM
Don't you guys get most profits from CD sales at a show? Esp. a CD release party?
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DennistheMenace
Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Posts: 714
Southeast, Florida
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 12:21 PM
Fripperton
We play free concerts but charge $5 if you want to leave.
LMAO!! Cost of living is MORE expensive in Southeast Florida,
we charge $8 to leave...... 
— .......make the Mos' of it,
.....choose the 'rite stuff!
.........owner of 9 Mosrites
proud owner and documented:
1963 "The Ventures" Model s/n# 0038
http://www.vintagerock4.com
www.mosriteforum.com
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11053
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 12:41 PM
tenderfoot
Don't you guys get most profits from CD sales at a show? Esp. a CD release party?
Exactly. That's our strategy - Merch sales. We're working on a variety of merch right now.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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Ruhar
Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 3909
San Diego, CA
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 12:54 PM
tenderfoot
Don't you guys get most profits from CD sales at a show? Esp. a CD release party?
No doubt, having merch helps out quite a bit. I don't mind playing for free if its a really fun gig or a 45 min showcase type of thing. Believe me, we've played/play our fair share of free gigs. But if we're expected to fill an entire night of music with maybe one other band, then I do look to get paid. Again, it depends on the venue.
— Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook
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ShaunNecro
Joined: Mar 06, 2007
Posts: 524
Bay City (Michigan)
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 01:11 PM
We usually just hope to get payed enough to cover gas. No one wants to pay for live music anymore in Michigan.
Whenever we play in Hamtramck for example, we usually always take a hit on money. But we have some cool people that we play with that always makes sure that we have enough money to cover the trip and any expenses, and we usually get a bit of money in our pockets for playing.
An average pay for us?
I'd say about $20.
— I am super sweet
www.myspace.com/thetremblors
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25568
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 03:27 PM
Remember, If its a bar gig, the Bar wants the band to bring people in.
If a band shows up, and nobody there knows who the band is,
the band has failed in bringing (fans, friends, family) to the show.
not that a band shouldn't get paid.
but why does a bar want to book a band with no following.
surf bands need to work on promoting themselves more.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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spskins
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3776
tn
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 05:38 PM
Seems the problem is your location. If people in "Surf City" are used to seeing surf bands play for free at the Pier and at the museum, they probably assume you play for free.
— http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com
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PolloGuitar
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 5097
San Francisco
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 05:46 PM
bigtikidude
Remember, If its a bar gig, the Bar wants the band to bring people in.
If a band shows up, and nobody there knows who the band is,
the band has failed in bringing (fans, friends, family) to the show.
not that a band shouldn't get paid.
but why does a bar want to book a band with no following.
surf bands need to work on promoting themselves more.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
It's true, bands need to promote themselves more. But bars are just as guilty if they don't promote the gig.
And yes, bands should get paid. You provide a service just like anybody else working in the club.
— Buy Speed of Dark @ Bandcamp
Buy Spin the Bottle @ Bandcamp
My Blog- Euro Tour Blog
Pool Boys on Spotify
INSTAGRAM
Frankie & The Pool Boys on FB
Pollo Del Mar on FB
DJ Frankie Pool Boy on North Sea Surf Radio
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Ruhar
Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 3909
San Diego, CA
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 06:07 PM
PolloGuitar
It's true, bands need to promote themselves more. But bars are just as guilty if they don't promote the gig.
And yes, bands should get paid. You provide a service just like anybody else working in the club.
Amen on that!
— Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook
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Rio
Joined: May 22, 2006
Posts: 500
Hamilton, Ontario
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 07:03 PM
Jeff's point is a very good one-- you can flap your wings all you want, but beyond a certain point, you're not going to get gigs, let alone paid, if you don't draw thirsty crowds at least some of the time... not that we're packing arenas or anything, believe me.
I think the key point is fairness-- if it's a bad night, yeah, I understand. But if the place is jumping, that's different.
Some places just show more respect for bands than others, whether it's how they pay, how they promote the show, or even whether they're happy to comp a few beverages or do it in a begrudging and painful way.
— http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/rockinrio.delrosa
http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/TheHighTides
http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/pages/The-Blue-Demons
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Spud
Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Posts: 666
Oz
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 07:13 PM
Interesting subject this one, there seems to be 3 different schools of thought.
- Play for pay
- Play for free
- Play for free but have merchandise bring in the money.
Sub categories of :-
- Professional musicians.
- Semi-Professional
- Amateur
Each one has their own reasons and realities for doing gigs, no one IMHO is very much different from the other when it all gets hosed down, - we're all playing music.
An interesting point though is the one about where if you are playing for free, about the bar staff and waiters etc, how long would they last doing their tasks for free, not real long I'd imagine.
I think musicians who have been around the traps a bit like Eddie Bertrand, Zak or perhaps Ron Rhoades and Ivan Pongracic could shed some light on this subject.
Zak's idea of upfront and solid payment is the closest to how I and other tradesmen operate our businesses, negotiate a figure, sign here, do the job, get paid.
The perception that just because it's 'music' or you don't have a 'singer' so you're not worth much if anything at all is plain wrong IMO.
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casey
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 521
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 09:39 PM
The reality is that what bands are paid is related to supply and demand, among other things. Around here where there are several capable bands for every job, payments are on the low side. You have to increase a club owner's PROFITS by more than the band gets paid to make it worth his while, and it can be tough to draw a crowd that does that.
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mournblade
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 328
central Pennsylvania
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Posted on Mar 08 2008 10:15 PM
Pyronauts
A fellow musician and I were talking about this the other day. I told him, you know, if word gets out that you'll play for free, then no one will pay you anything, cause they know you'll do it for free.... and he replied, it's kinda like the difference between a slut and a prostitute.... and he goes, man, I want to be a high class hooker!
Paul The Pyronaut
You know, I think that's the greatest thing I've ever heard! 
Vince
— Is this something you can share with the rest of us, Amazing Larry?!?
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