Patrick
Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 5
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Posted on Dec 30 2007 04:15 PM
Haven't been on here for ages and have been reading through the forum recently. I know you guys seem to be really into piggyback amps and Showman, Bassman etc...
But does anyone own one of these?
http://www.scottymoore.net/95dualpro.html (just for pictorial evidence, this is not my one - I'm not Scott Moore! :))
It has the tube reverb that most surf bands use as an outboard unit built in, at 100 watts, it's got tonnes of headroom and does not distort. 'Vintage style' Vibrato is really nice...
I was just curious because I have one (second hand, not bought at the $/£3300 custom shop price tag), I think its a 1997 and I really like it. It's super clean right up to high volumes, does not distort and is very nicely resonant - each little nuance of your guitar and style will come through, if your a bit of a sloppy player you'll know about it - you can hear everything! It Has a gloriously ballsy, tight bass end but still very much a clean, jangly fender amp and to my ears can do surf pretty well. The reverb is really nice and drippy with the only problems being with tone up past five it tends to get a bit thin and using too much distortion in conjunction with the reverb tends to sound fizzy.
To my ears I think I can get a pretty decent, if not brilliant surf tone out of it. It's very clean, can get very trebly without getting too thin and my Jazzmaster sounds great through it. However it's never referred to as a good surf amp and I was just curious how anyone a bit more experienced than me thought it sounded up against THE surf tone of say Showman/ Bassman/ Twin with an outboard Fender tube reverb etc...
I know people on here seem to say that a built in Reverb will never do an authentic surf sound but why is this..? I have the classic Fender reverb built into the amp - the same Dwell, Mix, Tone style one favoured by most surf bands, is there a difference between my one and the outboard one?
You can't really see on the link above but it is basically the same controls as the Vibro King Custom
http://www.fender.com/products/prod_images/amplifiers/8110000010_xl.jpg
without distorting massively with the volume past 3 as the VKC does.
Front Panel controls are as follows:
Two imputs (A and B) into one channel, one for active guitar electronics, one for normal. Fender Tube Reverb - Dwell, Mix and Tone. A Fat booster for both imputs A and B (a 6db boost when activated) Volume A + B, Bass, Mids, Treble. Speed and Intensity for Vibrato.
Any comments welcome!
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Boulder_Bob
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 130
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Posted on Dec 31 2007 09:31 PM
I love my Dual Pro and think the reverb sounds great. I'm not a big fan of the original speakers, Vintage 30s. I usually use some sort of cabinet with it an carry it around with no speakers, it's lighter that way.
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Patrick
Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 5
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Posted on Jan 01 2008 06:27 PM
Cool - just out of interest what kind of speakers do you have in the cabinet? I know quite a lot of people don't really like the Celestion Vintage 30's. I don't think my ears are tuned well enough to tell the difference.
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skeeter
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 2062
Virginia, USA
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Posted on Jan 01 2008 06:55 PM
I never cared much for the original V30 speakers either, I have a 1-15 Weber Ainico Cali in mine now.
— Paul
Atomic Mosquitos
Bug music for bug people is here!
Killers from Space
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Boulder_Bob
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 130
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Posted on Jan 01 2008 07:10 PM
Patrick - I have one JBL K120 and one EVM 12 in a cabinet made by Buzz Feiten - I used to use a Bandmaster cab but the Feiten is lighter
I think I'm going to put one JBL D130F in the Bandmaster cab - maybe an open back
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1534
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Jan 01 2008 08:05 PM
Ditto on the V30's not having "the" surf sound. I had an early (serial # 0061) Dual Professional that I sold several years back. Had I replaced the speakers with some EVM 12L's or Weber Cali's, I'd probably still have it. It was a fabulous amp, but it just didn't have the tone I wanted, and I'm sure it was because of the speakers. The reissue '65 Twin Reverb I had at the same time actually sounded better to me! I should have swapped the speakers as an experiment...those Fender/Eminence 12's sounded great for surf.
And I'm not knocking Celestions. I installed a pair of G12M Greenbacks in my '65 Bandmaster cab, and it has tone to die for, way better that the awful Oxfords that came in it. A Greenback sounds great in a Deluxe Reverb as well, but since they are rated at just 30W each I doubt that a pair of them could comfortably handle the 100W DP at loud stage volume levels.
— Jack
aka WoodyJ
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
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goober
Joined: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 317
California
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Posted on Jan 02 2008 09:38 PM
There is a blonde Dual Professional F/S on craigslist orange county for $1200.
What do you think of the price vs. waiting for a piggyback?
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/msg/526419492.html
goober
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2676
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Jan 03 2008 02:08 PM
It doesn't look like there are enough knobs for reverb Dwell, Mix, Tone and vibrato Speed and Intensity
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skeeter
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 2062
Virginia, USA
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Posted on Jan 03 2008 02:27 PM
The reverb dwell, mix, tone are the three on the left.
Vibrato, speed, intensity are on the right.
— Paul
Atomic Mosquitos
Bug music for bug people is here!
Killers from Space
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skeeter
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 2062
Virginia, USA
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Posted on Jan 03 2008 02:41 PM
goober
What do you think of the price vs. waiting for a piggyback?
goober
It's a good price, about what I paid for mine.
Keep in mind if you want it to sound more traditional, you'll probably want to change out the speakers at some point. And even then it's not going to sound exactly like a piggyback. It has it's own unique character. Kinda raunchier than a Showman (which I happen to like, but may not be for everybody).
— Paul
Atomic Mosquitos
Bug music for bug people is here!
Killers from Space
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Patrick
Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 5
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Posted on Jan 04 2008 08:21 PM
Cool, id didn't realize so many people had come into contact with them... I'm the only one I know. My house mate is in a touring band, they have played 40,000 capacity venues his band have endorsements with Badcat, Orange and HiWatt and he has his own vintage Orange Stacks and Marshalls. I've tried all of them and various amps he takes on tour or brings back to try out and they sound like toys next to the dual pro. I don't think I'd ever use anything other than a Fender Amp, nothing I have heard or played so far anyway.
I didn't realize the speakers colored the sound that much. What sort of differences did you experience when you changed out the speakers? I don't mind the Celestions. I've never tried anything else in there though and it was second hand so they could have had a lot of loud volume use before they came to me. I've had mixed experiences with this amp and at one point did think it was the speakers which might have been causing it. In my house at university - there is a tv and laptop in my room, lots of other electrical equipment, mobile phones, chargers and I think it could be them interfering with the sound a little some times. It seems when I use the amp in this environment I sometimes get a quite fizzy sound when I introduce a bit of distortion with a pedal. Using the same amount and the same setting at home in a room which is empty of other electrical equipment and there is no fizz. Seems like there is tendency for interference from other electrical fields. Anyone else have any similar experiences?
I don't know any dealer that does the recommended fender 5881/ 6L6WCG tubes, but sovtek do a range (albeit they are 6L6WXT's with the extra base part to fit better). It's just gone in the shop for a new set of power tubes. What kind of tubes were you guys using in them?
Thanks for your help,
Patrick
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10321
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 04 2008 10:23 PM
Patrick, I've owned a Dual Pro since late '04. It's a '96 or so, and I still have it. It was my primary amp in my surf band the Madeira until about two years ago when I got a '64 Showman. Since then our rhythm guitarist (also named Patrick!) has been using it. You can see some pics of it in the studio last weekend right here. I used it for lead on our debut album "Sandstorm" and follow-up EP "Ruins". You can go to our myspace page or our main website and check out some songs with the Dual Pro in the lead position.
It's a great amp, no doubt about it. It's loud as hell. I agree with everyone about the speakers. I think the Celestion Vintage 30s were terribly mismatched with that amp, and ultimately the primary reason why it was a pretty big failure for Fender (they didn't sell even close to the numbers of its little brother the Vibro King). You can find them on eBay now for around or even less than a $1000 which is an amazing deal, considering it's a handwired Fender amp with a built-in reverb unit AND a brownface-style tremolo (which sounds AMAZING). The Celestions would break up as soon as you turned up the amp, making it sound like Led Zeppeling - a bad idea for that amp, since it was designed to be CLEAN! And who that wants to sound like Led Zeppelin wants a blonde Twin-like amp? I put in Weber California Alnico speakers, though today I would probably choose the cheaper, much lighter and probably better sounding Weber NeoMags (neodymium magnet speakers).
Comparing the Dual Pro and the Showman, I'd say that the Dual Pro is cleaner and louder. A bit too clean and loud, actually, which is why I switched to the Showman. The Showman has more of that pleasing 'graineness' to it - and obviously more low end having a separate enclosed cab and a 15" speaker. But the Dual Pro sounds really good. I think these amps in many ways are the perfect choice for surf guitarists - the looks, the volume, the tone, the reverb unit, the tremolo... ESPECIALLY at current prices. I'm glad I have mine and I think I'll keep it for a long time to come. It's nice to see that several other surf guitarists have discovered it, as well.
BTW, I think JJ/Tesla 6L6GCs work really well for the amp. That's what I have in there now and they sound great.
Anyway, enjoy your amp. It's a good one!!
Ivan
The Madeira
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
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skeeter
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 2062
Virginia, USA
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Posted on Jan 05 2008 10:46 AM
IvanP
Comparing the Dual Pro and the Showman, I'd say that the Dual Pro is cleaner and louder. A bit too clean and loud, actually, which is why I switched to the Showman. The Showman has more of that pleasing 'graineness' to it - and obviously more low end having a separate enclosed cab and a 15" speaker.
Interesting, mine is actually a little grainier and slightly less loud with the weber, but maybe that's the difference between 2-12s and 1-15. 100 watts going into a 60 watt speaker I guess will do that.
— Paul
Atomic Mosquitos
Bug music for bug people is here!
Killers from Space
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Boulder_Bob
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 130
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Posted on Jan 05 2008 01:09 PM
the V30s have a midrange bark which I find unpleasant
The Weber NeoMags would be a good choice, especially because of the weight
However, after listening to Dave Wronski live, I might consider some non-JBL alternatives like Alnico Tone Tubbys or Weber's Blue Dog Alnicos in a 50 watt rating.
As far as tubes - if you run this amp at 3 or less (highly likely) you will find the power tubes last a loooong time. I sprung for a matched quartet of NOS Phillips 7581As from Angela Instruments a while back - they are $100 each now. They are HiFi, clean headroom tubes. I expect to get at least 100 gigs on them. I also Bias them a the safe side of "hot" - I can't remember exactly, but 38 mA is what I recollect. I biased by ear and made the amp sound as HiFi as possible. Biasing the tubes at different levels (within a safe range) makes a big difference in how an amp sounds and responds.
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2764
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 05 2008 03:36 PM
I too had a DP for a long time and it.....was loud. It was clean too. As a matter of fact, to me it was too clean. I really had no objection to the V-30's. I recorded the whole X-Rays' Senseless Acts of Surf CD with it. It was heavy. I built a piggyback head cab for it and used it on super large stages where it really worked with a 2-15 Showman Cab with my fave EV-15L speakers.
I like Ivan quit using it because it frankly just wasn't as musical sounding as either the Showman or Bandmaster heads that I have here to compare it with. The Dual Professional just refused to compress which in turn did not give me the warm and fuzzys when I was really cranking. These days, if I can't get my jollies out of either the Bandmaster or Showman amps, I just chunk a second one on stage and take out the first ten rows of people......Hummmmm, I just love the feeling of horse power........ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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