Let's take a step back here. Johnny, I know you have "sources" but so far I haven't seen a single post or article about this. So maybe we should:

1) Find out who Other Tunes Music, LLC is and what their plan is. It doesn't make sense to buy the Ventures name, assets, etc. and sit on them. (I can't find them so far on Internet. Anyone got a link?)

2) Find out why none of the current "Ventures" are posting anything about it. (possible nondisclosure, compensation?) It just seems strange that they would remain silent; unless there is something else down the road for them.

3) Maybe Vincent at Hi-Tide Recordings, who released the new Ventures cd in August 2023, has additional intel.

I'm not finding anything yet. Let me know if you have something concrete, or can point us to more information. Otherwise, we're just building on various suppositions.

Surfcat

From Atlantis with Love (EP) - Agent Octopus
Agent Octopus-Spotify
Christmas on the Beach (Single) - Agent Octopus

Angle of Attack (CD) - Reverb Galaxy
Ghost of Tom Returns (single) - Agent Octopus

Surf, the most dangerous of all musical genres...

Last edited: May 31, 2024 18:48:14

Art, Gellert,
You probably won't see any news on this on the internet as it was done all very "hush, hush". That's what the word "covert" meant in my posts. That's also why the four Ventures members were disrespectfully blindsided into oblivion. If it was kept from them, then why in blazes would Fiona Taylor want the common fan (Art, Gellert + several million) to know of the sale? Your "job" as a fan is to buy the merch; not to ask who owns what and who doesn't.

Art - If you were suddenly "fired" after decades of service, would you immediately go whining on the internet about it? Might you possibly be so disgusted by the turn of events that you just decided to shut down and move on to other things? But if not you, possibly the men in the Ventures lineup? I know for a fact they have disbanded and moved on. One has even relocated.

But -
Take a shot and attend this Ventures Fest I mentioned in this thread this coming September 28th.
You have to contact the promoter via Facebook.
I already know the facts; you two doubters do not at this point. So, the Fest is where you might learn what I learned. I happen to know the promoters definitely know the facts and those facts jive with what I've stated here.

Pennsylvania is not far from you, Art. Take a ride to Pennsylvania this September 28th. Satisfy that speculation you have.

Gellert, satisfy your curiosity and make the trek from Texas. For you both, I also know that the Fest promoter is looking for guitar talent for the Fest. Say you want to play at the damned event. Take a shot. You will most definitely find out that what I've stated it is NOT "... speculation, unnecessary drama, and pointless mudslinging."
Gellert - I'm quite fussy and choosy about my drama. I tend to dot my "i"s and cross my "t"s.
And I never mudsling. I make it a point to sling pure manure.

For you both -
Can't wait for the September Fest? Easy solution there - just call Fiona Taylor.
From the ventures.com website - quite publicly displayed on the internet:
Manager : Fiona Taylor
fionataylor@theventures.com
818-903-6381

Call her up.. ring the damn phone off the hook. Flood her email inbox. I would not be surprised if she did not return your call/email or gave you a "tap dance" answer (ironically, she was a dancer when she met Mel Taylor) if you do connect with her.

And the sale to OTHER TUNES MUSIC, LLC - website **https://othertunes.com/**
Again, all quite public on the internet. There are email addresses and phone numbers listed.
Figure they will tell you nothing.
Full FINAL sale (started in late 2023) details and legalese were completed last month - again as I have learned from a very, very reliable source.

BTW - there was a Ventures.live website before all this happened. It has now been put into the wind.

In summary:
I know the facts; you two don't. But you both can most certainly find out the facts with enough searching in the areas I've indicated.

Get in touch with your "inner snoop". Works for me.
J Mo'

Forgot to add:
https://trademarks.justia.com/985/65/the-ventures-and-98565937.html
Again - all quite public on the internet.
If you scroll thru the website, you will see the Ventures logo, a quite recent application date and, most important, THE CURRENT OWNER(S).
I've been a lot of things in life - one of which is being a thorough S.O.B.

Last edited: Jun 01, 2024 10:18:11

Art,
OtherTunes LLC may be good, bad or indifferent. At this point, they have nothing negative from my opinion end. Business is business and I'm thinking they saw whatever business value they saw in the Ventures name and assets and bought them from Taylor, Wilson, and Associates ==> Fiona Taylor. But like the Ventures, Mel Taylor's children (Leon and siblings) were all totally unaware this was happening. Bogle and Wilson's children were aware. Sounds like one happy family, doesn't it? Connect the dots on that and it strongly suggests to me that Fiona did not want Leon learning about the impending sale from his siblings.

OtherTunes, LLC can buy or sell what they like - it's a free country.
I just don't like the fact that the four Ventures were put out of a livelihood with little to no warning - after DECADES of tenure as "contractors". I don't like how the sale was conducted. It's just LOW. I'd like to think you feel the same way.

This deal could have been handled more above board with all concerned; notice of sale to the guys that would be affected most; perhaps a 1/2 year to 1 year's notice of retiring the present members.

Business wise - maybe it made sense to jettison "marginal assets" (like the Ventures group) and let OTHERTUNES, LLC decide if re-licensing these "contractors" is worth it. But if that rationale is in place, then why buy the name and assets at all? Perhaps Fiona gave them a (low) price they could not refuse?

Maybe they'll reach out to the four members to resume touring and recording at some point. At this stage, I rather doubt that. But if so, some bigger-than-they-were-earning bucks might have to be on the table as an inducement.
Drag out that possibility, and the four may just disappear. (One already has). That leaves OtherTunes LLC with "tribute band" licensing. But we have Deke Dickerson and VenturesMania already.

That last website I posted in my last post shows a fresh application for the Ventures logo and product line. It is dated in May of 2024. So- OTHERTUNES LLC is wiping the slate and refiling its own product ownership legal work.

J Mo'

Last edited: Jun 02, 2024 08:13:52

Art,
Bob Bogle and Don Wilson owned the Ventures - makes sense; they started the group. They paid Nokie, Gerry, Mel, Leon and Bob Spalding and some incidental members to play. I recall an event several years ago where Gerry McGee refused to go on stage in Japan until he had his money - UPFRONT. It wasn't always smooth sailing, I guess.
Fiona had to do some handstands in getting Gerry's money to him in Japan.
A concert was in waiting. So Fiona handled Ventures business affairs.

I also know they went through phases of not treating Nokie too well, either. The group got a bit splintered over Semie Mosley's business antics. Nokie - pro; Don and Bob - con.
Mel Taylor had good business sense. Don and Bob relied on him to handle a lot of the business matters. Apparently, he (and Fiona) did well in that regard as Don left control of the management of Taylor, Wilson, and Associates- including the right to sale, I gather - to Fiona when he passed. T.W.and A. sold the Ventures assets to OtherTunes LLC.

Did Fiona have that authority to sell. I have to say YES- again on the information from a very reliable source.

So, Art, with some decorum, respect and privacy, I'm not going to reveal that reliable source.
But - take a deep breath, and while sipping a drink or cup of coffee, put on the thinking cap and ask yourself:
"Other than Fiona Taylor, who or what would be the MOST RELIABLE source of information on this matter?"
When the most logical answer dawns on you, all I've stated on this thread will make sense.

BTW - the "good sale price" I mentioned was to imply reduced (as in eliminated) "labor overhead and costs" in maintaining the services of the four contractors (the present Ventures) to tour and record. That means the sale was the present Ventures catalog with no more to come. OTHERTUNES probably liked that. I don't think they are primarily in the actual performance business. Fan input to that - ZERO. The four Venture members input to that - ZERO.
Yes - it's all quite legal; and it all quite sucks to high heaven.

J Mo'

Last edited: Jun 02, 2024 14:24:28

ArtS wrote:

So,
If I'm understanding correctly, old people and beneficiaries/trustees sold assets that were originally granted by death, estate, etc. Leon Taylor's dad never gave him any rights in the Ventures and the beneficiaries of the Wilson/Bogle estates wanted to just get out. Suggesting that Fiona gave them a "low price" is probably going in the wrong direction, probably she got a good price, or had to sell. I still don't understand the whole situation, are you saying Fiona had the power to negotiate for Taylor, Wilson's Estate and Bogle's Estate on all the assets or just the name and touring?

As a CPA, I've done Estate and Trust work for over 20 years. Bogle and Wilson's estates probably had no legal obligation and it sounds like, no interest to continue with the day to day tracking and responsibilities of the Ventures.

Unfortunately, when I sit in meetings with the family regarding dad/mom's estates, it's often hard to even get brothers and sisters to agree on how things should be handled. I watch as family members decide not to talk to each other for years. It's not just the monetary gain, but usually more divisive is the emotional attachment each person had to the deceased and how they think the deceased would have wanted to handle the remaining assets. If I'm understanding the situation correctly, as far as ownership after death, Wilson and Bogle's beneficiaries owed nothing to Taylor or the group, and it sounds like they just wanted out. This is pretty common. I watch granddad/mom and dad/mom build up a businesses that make everyone money, then when they pass the kids have no interest to prolong it. They take what gets them the most from it, typically.

Nothing against the band, but they should have expected major changes when Don passed. Also, if I'm reading the situation correctly we have three different parties involved, Taylor, Wilson and Bogle. So then within those three groups, they all probably had different percentage of rights/authority regarding the Ventures publishing, name and assets. I doubt that it was 33% each, but I'd have to sit in on the negotiations to know. Also we don't know the terms of Wilson's will, which dictated his intentions to his trustee. There is a good chance that the beneficiaries of Wilson and Bogles estate's agendas were vastly different than Taylor's or that the Wilson's trustee was following the terms of the will.

Regarding the present members, they had a good run, but should have made an effort to get controlling interest or contract of what they were representing and playing. At the very least, discuss with an attorney what could happen. It sounds like they didn't. That's on them. Again, when Don passed in 2022 (?), they should have been prepping possible scenarios then. They rode the Ventures' name for a good amount of time and received many benefits from that. Something given to them, not something they created.

Finally, I very much agree that I don't like the way the former members were not notified, but it's not uncommon. Owners do not always notify employees, and employees most of the time make no effort to become owners. We can only speculate on what type of relationship the three remaining families had with each other.

So I know there is "inside information" from a source that can't be disclosed for some reason. I'm just curious at Don's death, who owned what, what percentage, who was negotiating for each family and what did the will say?

I'm pretty sure, but I'm not an attorney, that if the former Venture members decide to reform as something else, they should legally still be able to refer to certain members as "former Ventures" or formerly touring as "the Ventures" or "Ventures.live". Leon Taylor can still say in any promo that his is the drummer and son of Ventures' drummer Mel Taylor. But that's a legal issue and they probably won't pursue it unless they were making a very good living at it.

A friend of mine was recently involved in a dispute over a relative’s estate. There were no specified heirs, so it went to next of kin, but some less close relatives claimed that they had verbally been assured the estate. Well, it’s what’s on paper that counts, and while the more distant relatives ended up with a small settlement to drop their claim, apparently they are now strapped to pay their lawyers. Folly!

As people age, and see an ever shorter future before them, their perspective changes. I’m still pre-retirement, but I’m starting to find myself thinking in terms of how to maximize the value of whatever accomplishments I have.

In the case of someone who owns rights to some musical properties, whether publication rights, rights to legacy recording royalties, a band name, etc. there comes a point where future profits are less enticing than profits which can be harvested today.

For example, Daryl Hall and John Oates are currently at odds, because John Oates wants to liquidate his share of their joint works. He’s in his mid ‘70s, and probably doesn’t see much future in touring or royalties, and cash in hand is probably better than cash he may not live to see. Daryl Hall see it differently, and IMHO, neither side is wrong, but they are left at an impasse.

You mentioned in an earlier post that there are non-disclosure agreements in place, during many transactions, and this is for good reason. Such a purchase requires time and money, to investigate the worth of whatever is being transacted. A potential buyer doesn’t want to trigger a bidding war, which can only hurt their cause. That’s just good business. But having signed a number of NDAs over the course of my life, I know that these are nothing to trifle with. One of the first things I learned when I worked in a Management position was that I had to keep my mouth shut if I wanted to run my department effectively. That’s just the way it is.

It’s not underhanded to maintain confidentiality. It’s a shame that the four musicians performing as The Ventures ended up on the losing end of all this, but it’s hardly a surprising development.

It reminds me of an old joke, which I heard from my mother, of all people. A wealthy, high society man asked a woman of his acquaintance if she would sleep with him for a million dollars, and she replied in the positive. Then he asked if she would do so for ten dollars, to which she replied; “what kind of woman do you think I am?” The wealthy man replied; “we’ve already established what kind of woman you are, now we are merely negotiating the price.”

There are very few things in this world which are not for sale, if the price is high enough. Ready cash frequently outweighs many other considerations. I have no detailed knowledge of what happened here, but the deal at hand might well have made a lot of sense to the legal owners of these rights, and their interests are important. In order for this value to have been established, there were costs and sacrifices which affected the families of The Ventures. You can hardly blame them for wanting to make the most of this value.

I feel some true compassion for Leon Taylor, in all of this. He inherited his father’s place in the band, and made their cause his own. If his stepmother cut him off from any benefit which accrued, well, that speaks poorly of her, but even at that, I’m not going to cast stones. I wish the best for Leon Taylor, but that’s all I can offer. Sometimes all a person can do is to move forward.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

bigtikidude wrote:

They should have called themselves the New Ventures. And then continues as such. I’ve seen them a few times. Fair but not the same Ventures sound.

The name "The New Ventures" should be their property too, They used it around 1976 on their album "Rocky Road." Anything incorporating "Ventures" in the name probably is their property anyway. Still in view of the exact word meaning "Ersatz Ventures" might evade challenge or survive it, however...

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Jun 02, 2024 15:53:20

JohnnyMosrite wrote:

Your comments regarding Leon Taylor:
"If his stepmother cut him off from any benefit which accrued, well, that speaks poorly of her"

You know Synchro - I thought the same thing.
J Mo'

Sadly, this sort of thing happens all too often. As I alluded to earlier, a friend recently was part of an estate dispute. My role was moral support, a bit of practical (as opposed to legal) advice, and to provide perspective because I was at arm’s length and less emotionally involved.

What always amazes me is how people behave when there’s an inheritance in play. It’s like an emotional “Free Beer” sign, and attracts avarice like nothing else on earth. Dignity is quickly set aside and the worst in human nature comes to the surface.

IMO, it shouldn’t be that way. In older, agricultural economies, offspring who stayed on to work their father’s land were rewarded with an inheritance they had earned, because they had put their own secondary to the interests of keeping the family land productive. Their “birthright” was was a right, but they had to do their part. My point is that in those days, and inheritance wasn’t like winning some lottery; it was about preserving the value of generations of hard work.

From that standpoint, I feel that Leon Taylor deserves better. He worked his father’s farm, and IMO, morally should have a piece of the pie.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

spskins wrote:

The AddVentures

Good one. Of course, they could go Sci Fi and call it, Ventures, the Next. Generation, but then the only ones making money would be the lawyers.

In all seriousness, it would be great if they could remain together as an act and market themselves honestly, without stepping on anyone’s toes, but I’m not holding my breath.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Everyone, I have it on very good authority the band is alive and will tour again soon...

A person joins SG101 on June 3 - yesterday - and states a short "opposing post".
So - really? The Ventures will be touring soon? Who might be comprising that Ventures line up? I know for a fact who won't be comprising any present Ventures line up.
And when might this tour be happening according to your "good authority"? The Japan tours have been cancelled.
J Mo'

Last edited: Jun 04, 2024 08:38:44