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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 14:58:11

Storm,
thanks for the clarification.. And yes I do like older technology. Its advantage is that it has fewer "moving parts" - so to speak.
Case in point:
In the early 2000s, there was a power outage here on the East Coast. Cell phones essentially ceased to work because the cell towers drew power from the (dead) power grid. But old fossil J Mo' had a landline. My old school telephone got its DC power form the phone company who have separate generators. I was able to communicate with my wife (phone booths were still around) and meet her where she was stranded.
And, as mentioned, I consider an older "chipless" motor vehicle essential. There is just less to go wrong and repair (I have essential spare parts) is a helluva lot more simple.

My guitar of preference goes back to the sixties. I obviously still like it. There have been better manufacturing techniques over the years (like CNC) but having my 'M' guitars from the sixties to the nineties, I can appreciate them all. BTW - one of those Mosrites is still very unique. It's sound is straight "outta hell" by my assessment and the assessment of others.

So - yes ... Old, vintage, name-your-own still has its place and utility to me.

J Mo'

Dave,
"..legit Mosrite that had a neck that was, to me, even remotely playable - they're way too thin and narrow for me"

Yep - such is the gift of having small fingers - one of the reasons I like Mosrites.

Historically, Dave, a professional guitarist named Nokie Edwards went to the Mosrite creator, Semie Moseley, to get the neck on his Telecaster shaved. Nokie was having problems getting the sounds he wanted on his "baseball bat neck" Telecaster. He saw the Mosrite prototype Semie had.. liked the feel of the slim neck and bought it outright on the spot.

I've seen interviews with Nokie where he states that Moseley was "locked in" on the slim neck as he had a sizeable investment in the string nuts and bridges. That may be true. I've also seen videos of Joe Maphis and Larry Collins from the 50s and 60s wanking their Mosrites .. the slim neck was quite prevalent even back then.
If you think about it, a slim neck is prevalent on mandolins - yet people play them quite well.
The Mosrite is a simple straight forward axe. It's not designed for fingerpicking and not for blues string bending of several million semi-tones. It's a "pick a note and move on to the next - FAST" type of axe.

I've mentioned this before - playing a Fender is like driving a truck; playing a Mosrite is like driving a sports car.
There is utility in both.

J Mo'

Dave,
Big guy with long fingers.. I got it... obviously that's not the case with me.
BTW - I have several T60s - a mix of a Tele, a Les Paul and a Mosrite if you think about it. The necks on all of my T-60s are different - slim, wide, maple, rosewood. etc. I'd never part with any of them. They are getting a bit harder to find at a sensible price.

All types to make a world, I guess.
J Mo'

With songs such as Bombora, an Aboriginal term for large waves breaking over submerged rock shelves, The Atlantics clearly had surf in mind with their music.

synchro wrote:

IvanP wrote:

Klas wrote:

IvanP wrote:

In surf you have the Atlantics that used the shit out of their Strat trems in the '60s [...]

The Atlantics were not a surf band music wise and they had a lot more in common with the European guitar bands, especially the French ones. I hope you're not one of those who also calls The Shadows a surf band...

That’s quite a clipping, Ivan.

I happen to like the Shadows approach, using delay instead of reverb. My own sound, used on everything from Jazz standards to early ‘60s Pop, to Country, to Surf, is a combination of plate reverb and delay. The only thing that varies is the amount of reverb, and my right hand technique. If I let the notes ring out, the delay only adds depth. If I use a more staccato approach, the slapback becomes audible.

For some time, I have been fascinated by the geographical influence on music. In the US, spring reverb was prominent, while in many other places, delay was the source of an open sound. Fender amps reigned in the US, while Vox amps had greater influence in the British empire. It’s a interesting study in parallel development, using a different set of tools to achieve similar, but not identical, results.

To my way of thinking, this demonstrates the significance of the genre. At roughly the same period in time, a similar musical sound was being developed in far flung places. By purist definition, not all of this is down the centerline of SoCal Surf, but the results are startlingly similar in many ways; clean, bright guitars with either reverb or delay expanding the sound. Growing up in the US, during the ‘60s, I was aware of the Surf Music scene, but knew little more about the Shadows than their name, but I see them as part of the same global phenomenon.

Add in the effect of geography on the compositions and it gets even more interesting. Dick Dale was of Lebanese origins, and culturally exposed to Middle Eastern music as he grew up. He may well have seeded much of what happened in The American Surf scene, because of this. Similar sounds were being created in the Soviet Bloc, quite likely because of Turkic and Balkan influences. So, as I see it, Surf was the American branch of a much larger tree, and Dick Dale played a significant role, introducing the more nuanced sounds of Harmonic Minors to the genre. It was sort of a cross pollination, Duane Eddy bringing the sound of twangy electric guitars to the fore and Dick Dale playing that sound back with more reverb, but applying it to music that was based upon more than the Major Pentatonics that Duane Eddy used.

It all depends upon how we want to define it. I could see defining Surf as music played on Offsets, through Brownface Showman amps and 6G15 tanks, but that strikes me as a bit narrow. Everything is the result of something that has come before. Even by the most narrow of definitions, Surf Music probably would not have happened without Duane Eddy, Fender Jaguars probably would not have happened without Strats and spring reverb units probably wouldn’t have happened apart from some of the other approaches that existed, such as magnetic drum delays.

Frankly, narrowing the definition of Surf does nothing to promote the genre. When I learned of the Shadows, the Tielman Brothers, the Atlantics, etc. I was enriched by the experience. Finding a broader world of similar music, and realizing that there was so much going on in other places only serves to add to my enjoyment.

I have to comment on the last sentence of that clipping, being a Denver-man, myself. That one busted me up.

Paul

The Dead Planet Surfers

The Atlantics were a surf music band.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

synchro wrote:

IvanP wrote:

The Atlantics were a surf music band.

I’ve heard that there are even surfers in Australia.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Getting back to the stratocaster debate, There are at least 28 adjustment points on the strat. To set one up to suit your personal taste takes time. One change requires another until everything comes into balance. I keep all my tools handy as I tend to make minor adjustments here and there for optimization. Most strats hanging at the shop don't suit me well. The action is always too high for one. I had my 78 re-fretted and set up by a world class luthier. Absolute perfection. I base all of my setups from this model. Most of the great strat players played cobbled strats with swapped necks and such. I've swapped necks, pickups, bodies, trems down the line. Just part of why I love strats.

The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

I think his point is that you can make more adjustments to suit your preferences if you want to, not that it is necessary. I would call that a good design, but personally I've never had to make 28 adjustments on mine, I doubt many have. Unfortunately you can't make an adjustment for a tiny neck so you are stuck with that. Another consideration is that you can take a Strat on the road and not worry too much about having to replace it if something goes wrong. Adjustable, durable, sturdy, reliable, replaceable, handsome and sounds great. Not perfect but definitely not junk. I wonder what Mosrites would look like without the Strat design turned upsidedown. The Atlantics are a surf band, not all surf bands sound alike. Bedlam does not sound like Miserlou, it doesn't sound like surf but we call it that.

JohnnyMosrite wrote:

Stratdancer,
"28 adjustment points on the strat"
And
"One change requires another until everything comes into balance."

That might be fun for you and maybe keeps you off the street or something.
But it sounds like a lot of unnecessary (due to poor deign) aggravation for my temperament. I'm sure you are aware there are guitars that are more in the way of low(er) maintenance.

Anyway - I'm adding your two facts stated here to my list of why I just don't favor the Strat. 28 points of adjustment??!! Jesus H. Christ.. I'd be close to burning the blasted thing at point 9 or 10.

But - your preference; your axe.. your fun.. have at it.

J Mo'

Strats are easy to set up, and once set up are very stable.

If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.