The Bogdon Cardboard Bass kit is super cool: you can build it with or without the piezo pickup. About 10 years ago,I built the 2-string (E-A) with pickup version and I love it! Sounds decent live, I played along with a bluegrass combo (mandolin, violin, banjo, guitar and box bass)... it sounded decent. Of course, sounds best moderately amplified with a small bass amp or keyboard amp. Mine's still around and still sound decent a decade later!

Last edited: Mar 01, 2020 11:44:21

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Last edited: Mar 01, 2020 12:38:25

djangodeadman wrote:

DeathTide wrote:

djangodeadman wrote:

It's curious how a thread started by someone asking for advice on what to use for bass when playing live outdoor events alongside "unplugged" instruments has been taken over by a lot of spurious advice on how bass was recorded in the 1960's.

So what? I found it interesting. (Then again I love off-topic!)

Again - washtub based

I didn't say it was uninteresting, of course, just curious.

Right, copy that! Usually those kinds of “it’s curious ...” online statements are a passive aggressive way to criticize. I’m delighted that’s not the case. Anywhere Sam posts will quickly veer from its original topic! Except this time it wasn’t him haha...

I have a pal who plays a giant full size double bass, and you can barely hear that over talking! But, you could easily build a resonant riser and get a lot more volume. Anything with fairly thin boards that vibrate. If you have some tools and wood you could make it in like an hour. If you’re outdoors I’d guess it wouldn’t be enough tho.

I have not done this nor have I seen such a contraption. I have however noticed how much louder an unplugged electric bass gets when the headstock touches a resonant wall or door. A double bass may want some kind of cradle to better transfer the notes as opposed to the little stilt thingee. The above idea is based on that and nothing more!

Daniel Deathtide

spskins wrote:

Surfing Sam, your second link was a dead link. The wikipedia link on flange is interesting, but doesn't list any surf examples. The closest are The Ventures and Tornadoes (Joe Meek) examples, but they list it as being used on the sound effect intros only. Nowhere does it reference it being used on the bass only or any of the other declarative statements about surf music. Citing Scotty Moore's Echophonic amp does not prove anything about surf. He hot the idea from Chet Atkins use of it in order to replicate the slap back that Sam Phillips pioneered at Sun Studio fir rockabilly, but again, where is the connection to surf music?

Yeah the Ventures used Tape Delay big time on The Ventures in Space album - Even the Steel Pedal guitar effects on there (Space sounds etc,)- I'm brain dead right now on the session man's name. I posted about him on another thread on SG101 somewhereI can't find now.

They also used them on each guitar as well, there is a picture with the machines on the floor in front of each player in the studio I found on the net once.

Just like today, famous players are emulated by others, Scotty Moore had a big influence on others in the late 1950's many ended up session men in California. So its all connected in a way as far as I'm concerned.

But I'm going entirely by what is on the recordings and being able to connect the dots with my familiarity with how those sounds were created in a studio in those times and equipment available to use.

What I found is the actual drip sound is created by a guitar pick hand muting technique plugged into a tape Delay machine then into a tank. Yes the tank does produce a small amount of drip at certain settings on mix - dwell- and tone etc - but a majority of that is amplified by the Tape Delay machine with a fair amount of Delay at about 200ms and feedback below 12 O'clock on that machines settings - that all depends on the sound or slap-back effect you want to create. this is also effected by the muting technique where a combination of fretting pressure and pick hand mute will make the drip pop out in intensity etc, All three are required to get the sound we all love.

So Drip is created with three techniques

!.) Tank Spring and certain settings on the Mix - Dwell and Tone

2.) Tape Delay between the Tank and Guitar set at 200ms delay and various feedback settings etc. (for desired effect)

3,) Muting hand technique, Both hands (fret Pressure and mute on the pick hand (even where the mute hand is located over the pickups etc, (That's a whole field of research in itself). But this technique really amplifies the Tape Delay effect to get a nice pop in the drip (Or at lest that's what I call it.),

I played around with all this today - And got a decent Drip with only a Squire Jazzmaster and my Avid Rack Eleven unit with all the effect patches inside it. i'm still trying to rediscover all this so still in various stages of patching this all together. But I never had drip this good before. So convinced I'm close to finding the right combination of settings...To me this whole thing is a rediscovery of a lost studio technique or even secret, We will see.

I'm toying with the idea of making a video from the players point of view so it all makes sense being demonstrated etc. Will update sometime later,

OK thanks Too tired to drone on now

Sorry I respectively disagree,

I'm not talking about playing bass - The Bass was flanged on surf not Tape delay - even though the same machines were used.

I got sucked into this rabbit hole by trying to explain a recording question and this thread got highjacked like usual.

I did forget to mention this whole technique is more related to 2nd lead guitar or a rhythm based guitar parts. You can't play Drip on the lead guitar part being it usually requires clean tone to sound good and would be too hard to perform both the same time anyway on the same guitar - I was trying to answer spskins concerns he had on the idea - this is primarily for 2nd Guitar, most of the best Surf instrumentals are actually have three separate guitar parts mix wise in reality on many records.

I sorry but If the Ventures isn't Surf I guess I'm on the wrong site. Walk Don't Run was the core example of Pre or proto Surf era songs - look how many Surf Songs Are based on it's structure - Like: Shockwave - Bedlam and host of other songs, and how many Surf bands played it as a opener etc . . . As far as I'm concerned there is more Ventures style in Surf than even Duane Eddy.

If everyone knew everything this site would not exist outside of posting new records or shows etc.

The Rack Eleven could replace any piece of gear listed on this site - I use it to practice with all the time and get better results than real gear it emulates, I can play anytime of the day with headphones and not bother anyone. - it is a relevant tool. I has every possible amp and speakers you name it. It would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to get all the sounds it pumps out.

I'm not guessing - I have literally played every possible amp combo and have many of the classic guitars used in this genre used with it.

So I've been listening very critically to a mint first pressing stereo "Surfing with the Astronauts " , specifically "Baja"on a Dynaco stereo with JBL studio monitors and this is what I hear:
On the left channel is a rhythm guitar playing the eighth note pattern through a reverb tank. No tape delay, just a trebley
guitar through a tank set fairly high. Also on the left side is the other rhythm guitar playing the sustained chords, again no tape delay. On the right channel you have the drums and bass with NO FLANGING.
Also on the right you have the lead guitar playing through a tank and that is fed through the studios reverb chamber and it's returning on the left channel. This is bourne out by using the balance control to check each channel
As far as I know this album was recorded at RCA studios in Hollywood By Al Schmidt.
Al Schmidt is a very old school engineer who eschews the use of eq, and compression, referring to it as "kid stuff'.
It was more than likely recorded on an Ampex 350 1/2" machine, since that was what rca had at the time.
I did a forensic in depth analysis a while back in this thread:
https://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/30304/?page=2
If you listen to other albums recorded at this studio by Al Schmidt, for example the early Jefferson Airplane albums, you can hear the reverb chamber is the same.
Now I could be wrong of course, but I don't think I am.
Sam, please provide at least one example of a flanged bass or guitar on a Surf record.pre 1965

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Last edited: Mar 02, 2020 16:36:04

This is the thread about bass where you brought up flanging. I think you got your threads mixed up. The original songs thread is where you went off on tape delay, but then you cross pollinated over here.
I'm sorry to the original poster. Good luck on your bass sound.

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Last edited: Mar 02, 2020 17:31:14

Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:

I guess nobody gives a damn anyway.

Lots of people give a damn, that's why we're responding.

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Last edited: Mar 02, 2020 23:56:54

There is a legend of an acoustic bass that was made once. Word of it sometimes comes up on talkbass.com. It is the Ernie Ball Earthwood acoustic bass. It is much like a guitaron. Legend has it that this thing makes bass. Real, actual, unplugged acoustic bass. Good luck!

Last edited: Mar 03, 2020 09:39:01

IvanP wrote:

Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:

On Facebook Bob Cannistraro of the Beloved Invaders band (and a mechanical engineer by profession with deep interest in old recording techniques) recently clarified that this is NOT an Echoplex, despite its appearances. he wrote:

"Power supply for the microphone I think. You see similar devices in a lot of Beatles recording photos, Look at Echoplex photos, they only have one latch."

And in fact, it is obvious in the photo that it is plugged into the MICROPHONE, not the amp.

Correct! Thats not an Echoplex. It's a power supply It looks like a Sony C37a condenser mic which requires a separate 48v power supply to function.

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Last edited: Mar 03, 2020 11:04:17