In my quest to find out what the "RA" prefix before one of my Accutronics reverb pans type meant, I spoke to Andreas over at tubeampdoctor.com (the European distributor for Accutronics) and received lots of interesting information from him regarding the other brands as well.
He was very friendly and helpful and said it was ok to post some of his answers over here.

To see what the RA-prefix is about you can check this thread: https://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/32104/?page=1

Here's some of our conversation and the info I got from Andreas:

I have several reverb pans and some have "RA" in front of the type number and others don't.
Can you tell me what the "RA" stands for or what the difference is between 'RA' and 'non-RA' pans?
I see a similar prefix for Belton pans: some with R in front, others without.

we only stock higher quality Accutronics line of the reverb cans made by Belton.
Our(!!) part numbers for these start with "RA" means "R"=Reverb and "A"=Accutroncis. The remaining digits define the reverb can specifications.
The other reverb cans we offer have a part number starting with "RV" and are our custom made vintage type reverb cans.

Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, I mean the code on the sticker on the pan. I thought these we're put on in the factory, not by the vendor.
So, every pan that has a label with RA comes from your store? Or does Belton put RA on the sticker when it produces for you and no RA for everyone else?
In what way are the RA-pans higher quality than non-RA pans? More durable? Better sounding?
I'm planning to buy several pans but want to avoid buying the same, possibly rebranded pans (Mojo, Revisit, MOD, TAD etc)
The TAD pans look interesting. In what way is your custom made type 'vintage'.

yes, the factory does label them. All cans they supply to us do bear our part number.
We were the accutronics distributor before the US production shut down and got sold. Nobody knew if there will be a new production so we were going to get our own reverb cans made to our specs.

While MOD, MOJO, REVISIT (funny to see that they illigally use my picture by the way) are from same chinese plant which is a copy of the old Belton reverb which is not working well in vintage Fender type circuits for several reasons. Not a bad product, but it needs the circuit to be adjusted to work nicely; such you wouldn't do in a vintage original design.

However, we sent over NOS US made reverb cans and had them engineering new transducer and springs meeting these specs. A good bit higher cost but well worth doing it. So ours do work nicely in the original circuits.

[...]
You said MOD, MOJO, Revisit are copies of the old Belton pans and are made in the same plant in China.
Are your (RA)Accutronics and TAD pans based on the old Accutronics pans and made in Korea?
Since you said that the RA-4AB3C1B version was based on your vintage type NOS Accutronics and you also said that the RV-4AB3C1B is custom built to vintage specs.
What is the difference between Accutronics RA-4AB3C1B and TAD RV-4AB3C1B?

1 first :
R(BL)= Reverb Belton "Long"(like the 4- or 9-series; there is a BS "short" version as well, like 8 series

2 REVISIT is using our picture but they do not sell TAD Reverb cans. The use of my picture is without permission. They just copied it unscrupulously out of our data sheet from 2010. Even the wording. They photoshop removed our stamp marks on the cans rim but they missed to remove the part numbersticker inside:
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/media/pdf/ba/fa/78/tad-reverb-datasheet.pdf

3 " Since you said that the RA-4AB3C1B version was based on your vintage type NOS Accutronics and you also said that the RV-4AB3C1B is custom built to vintage specs."
I was talking about the RV-…. version only (at least I meant the RV series only)! They are also made by a contractor factory (not Belton) to our specs (taken from NOS Accutronics cans), using the modern production quality but keeping the vintage touch and feel.

4 MOD, MOJO, RUBY, REVISIT ... all I have seen are from same plant using same components; just different labels. That plant used to build their copies from (by electronic specs and tone) was the Belton (mechanically it is a different design) in the earlier 2000s. REVISIT sure does not sell exactly the cans you see on the large group picture as these are ours and our picture (see the finish here and compare to their single item picutures which are way different).
https://amprepairparts.com/reverbtanks.jpg

5 ACCUTRONICS all current manufactured cans are made in Korea since 2010. In early 2019 Accutronics significantly improved their cans compared to prior korean production Accutronics cans. Since 2019 they got much better in my opinion. So make sure to receive supplies from fresh stock when looking for Accutronics (like buying from official distributor ).

6 difference: since the latest upgrade with Accutronics I would say they are very close to our RV series reverb. Best is to build your own opinion. I am interested in learning about your findings when comparing them in same equipment.

7 yes, you may quote me

I'll be ordering a TAD Type 9, 8 and 4 as well as an RA-Accutronics Type 4. (I already have a Non-RA-4 and Non-RA-8 and an RA-8 version)
I'll do a comparison when they get here. Using the Surfy Bear as my SB has a kill dry switch which may be usefull to compare the wet signal only.

This for sure sets the record straight with regard to Revisit pans and MOD pans being the same as the TAD pan, as mentioned/speculated in so many posts here. Only the 'stolen' pictures are the same but the pans are not.

Last edited: Feb 02, 2020 16:08:19

I think it was Andreas that I spoke to at the Winter NAMM 2020 show, Lorenzo introduced him to me. Very knowledgeable guy, and shared a lot of the above info.
As Fady mentioned, there was a thread he started about the ReVisit pans. In that thread, 2 years ago, I have already confirmed that TAD and MOD pans were completely different. There has been a lot of talk around these years of people assuming that TAD were the same as MOD without actually seeing the pans. Since I had 2 damaged TAD pans and 2 working new TAD pans I found out years ago they are totally different.

Now the ReVisit issue is solved because they stole the pic

Anyhow back to TAD - the ones that they are modeled upon are US made Accutronics. However, Accutronics don't sound like Gibbs pans. I told Andreas at TAD that I use vintage Gibbs pans in all my tanks and he was surprised they still work. Rightfully so, because many of them don't work well and one has to find good working examples.
I wish I had spares to give them to send to the manufacturer to analyze/replicate. Unfortunately that's not the case...

Like Fady said above, even modern pans don't all sound exactly the same even by the same manufacturer. So, YMMV and it will be interesting to hear the results.

Ran

The Scimitars

Fady wrote:

You’ve possibly seen the thread I started on the Revisit pans a while back. I’ve since received some PM info from folks who also followed up with them suggesting the differences start and end with the stickers.

Yes I did. They seem to have copied everything from TAD. Their pictures, texts and even the background to their pans:

Revisit: The specs we provided to the manufacturer were based on reverse-engineering the original Accutronics tanks from the late 1960s / early 1970s, trying to recapture the sound..."

TAD: We sent over NOS US made reverb cans and had them engineering new transducer and springs meeting these specs.

This thread has the most compelling evidence that they're rebranded MOD pans:
https://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/30892/?page=1#p415770

Last edited: Feb 02, 2020 15:59:48

I've read that thread again. It has my mind going back and forth over who's speaking the truth and if they might be the same pan after all. (By 'who' I mean the vendors/distributors)

I have even considered that the factory who's producing for TAD is selling the same pans or slightly different looking pans but with the same 'vintage specs' to other distributors, behind TAD's back (wouldn't be a first in the far east)

The fact remains that the Revisit distributor is using 'stolen' TAD pan pictures and texts.

He only sells Revisit pans but there's MOD sticker stuck in the package somewhere.

He comes 'clean' and is very 'transparent' about it and says that they're all the same pans from the same factory. And the MOD pan was from another store because he was out of stock.

But then, what is up with the

Revisit: The specs we provided to the manufacturer were based on reverse-engineering the original Accutronics tanks from the late 1960s / early 1970s, trying to recapture the sound..."

That would mean all pans (MOD, Ruby, MojoTone, Revisit etc) are based on the reverse-engineered specs.

In the end though, seemingly identical pans (with many mechanical parts and thus lots of potential for variation) can sound different.

And as always what sounds good, is good.

So far TAD hasn't explicitly stated where his pans are made. One could interpret his statements 'same plant' 'sent them them our NOS' as being the same factory as MOD,Revisit etc. but a different design and different specs (magnet gauss? wire gauge? spring tension? etc)

TAD:
While MOD, MOJO, [...] are from same chinese plant [...]
However, we sent over NOS US made reverb cans and had them engineering new transducer and springs meeting these specs. [...]

Last edited: Feb 02, 2020 18:54:52