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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Musician »

Permalink Guitar scales?

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surfohioscotty
Is there a site I can go to to find these scale pattens and possibly surf tabs? I have played for years and still dont have a good grasp of how to "go modal".

The modes date from when church organs had only the white keys and that can help you to understand it.

So, if you use only the Scale of C major but call the 'A' in it the Key or 'home' note then you are playing in A Aeolian (just the modal name for 'A' minor). If You refer it to 'E' then you are playing in the Phrygian mode; Referred to 'D' it's the Dorian mode. (these are three of the most useful) So, for example:

Play the scale of 'C' major over a funky blues in Dm and you will be soloing in the Dorian mode.

Play the scale of 'C' major over a Spanish sounding chord change in 'E' (say E to F and back - chuck in an Am here and there) And you'll be using the Phrygian.

The other modes are:

Mixolydian - think Sweet Home Alabama - 'F' Major scale over 'C'

Lydian - Jazzy major scale - just play 'G' Major scale over 'C'

Locrian Mode - Unlistenable (its the C major scale over B root - so everything is flattened except the B.

Ionian - just the old name for the Major scale

Aeolian - Just the old name for the Minor scale

This is just a way of looking at it, so when I say 'Play the C Major scale over changes in E' you need to remember that you are actually playing in E and that the E is the home note you will resolve to - if you try and resolve to C it won't sound right.

You also need to remember that the modes are either Major or Minor.
Use the Dorian and Aeolian in Minor keys; Mixolydian, Lydian and and Ionian over Major keys. Don't use the Locrian at all or everyone will leave Smile

I hope I got all that right - I've just got up ... lol. Really, the modal thing is difficult to explain (I hope this is clear-ish at least) but once you grasp it, it's actually pretty simple.

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You are a champion -that would have to be the clearest anyone has explained the modes! _This time _my eyes didn't glaze over while I continually nodded "yes, I see.." Guitar

Tim O
oestmann guitar

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estreet
Don't use the Locrian at all or everyone will leave Smile

I hope I got all that right - I've just got up ... lol. Really, the modal thing is difficult to explain (I hope this is clear-ish at least) but once you grasp it, it's actually pretty simple.

If you play the Lochrian mode of a melodic minor scale (super lochrian mode) you can get incredibly outside of the of the changes yet it all fits. Try it over Blues changes sometime.

At the bottom of it all modes are just normal scales played from different starting and stopping points.

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oestmann
Sometimes I play around with a scale book for fun, but, I too am interested in any 'Middle East' or 'Asian' scales that anyone has played with? Any favourites?

You are going to want to try the harmonic minor scale. It is also called the Mohammedan scale, so that should give you an indication. I wrote a tune recently and used it as a solo in a jazz context which was fun and mighty weird sounding. My favorite scale of all time, I think, next to pentatonic minor.

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Scales are a great way to build up technique, learn the fretboard, and start to hear melodies you might want. Going back to my classical roots once again this evening, try what Andres Segovia put together.

http://chordmelody.org/pdf/Segovia%20Scales/

You go through almost all the positions, learn movable shapes and get two types of minor scales. Very Happy

Thanks! I've since played with the Byzantine scale and Mohammedan scale - they certainly sound as if they have influenced surf! It's great to have a few more tools in the case.

Tim O
oestmann guitar

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Lately I've been obsessed with the Whole Tone Scale. I want to use this more as a main "tonality".

whole tone scale? how's that scale?

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surfaca
whole tone scale? how's that scale?

All whole steps. This makes it a seven note scale. It also makes it so that there really are only 2 of them possible.

C D E F# G# A#

Db Eb F G A B

Start acending or decending in whole steps from any note, and it will be one of the above scales from which ever scale degree you begin on.

It's a cool concept.

oh i just found it on the internet.

i used to use that scale in a song when i played the bass with my uncle at age of 15

it is pretty cool, very jazzy

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This post has been removed by the author.

Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 19:28:47

seafoamer
Lately I've been obsessed with the Whole Tone Scale. I want to use this more as a main "tonality".

It works great over dominants with altered 5ths but I don't think it works for everything. There isn't a starting or stopping point, no tension and resolution, it's not a key, basically it's just a pattern.

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zak

twangaddict
The Miserlou scale is a cool one as mentioned above. It's E, F#, G#, A, C, D#, E. In Middle Eastern music they might play F natural on the way down.

No F# in the Phrygian Dominant, it should be F.
The D is the one that would get flattened on the way down.

Straight Phrygian is the same only the G is natural and not sharp.

Gotta love the internet...

Rolling Eyes

Phrygian Dominant is the Western name for the scale that Miserlou is in. The traditional form of the tune is in the maqam (Middle Eastern "scale", for want of a more accurate Western word) called Hijaz Kar. The notes of which roughly correspond to EFG#ABCD# when based on E. Hijaz Kar is a variant of Hijaz, which would be EFG#ABCD, so Miserlou incorporates both of those because there are D naturals in the 2nd part. It is common in Middle Eastern music to have different notes for ascending and descending passages.

In actual practice, on the oud or violin for instance, the notes of maqam hijaz and maqam hijaz kar don't exactly correspond to those on the guitar because the minor 2nd (F in this case) is often played slightly sharp and the major 3rd (G#) is frequently played slightly flat.

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zak

twangaddict
The Miserlou scale is a cool one as mentioned above. It's E, F#, G#, A, C, D#, E. In Middle Eastern music they might play F natural on the way down.

No F# in the Phrygian Dominant, it should be F.
The D is the one that would get flattened on the way down.

Straight Phrygian is the same only the G is natural and not sharp.

Gotta love the internet...

Rolling Eyes

Phrygian Dominant is the Western name for the scale that Miserlou is in. The traditional form of the tune is in the maqam (Middle Eastern "scale", for want of a more accurate Western word) called Hijaz Kar. The notes of which roughly correspond to EFG#ABCD# when based on E. Hijaz Kar is a variant of Hijaz, which would be EFG#ABCD, so Miserlou incorporates both of those because there are D naturals in the 2nd part. It is common in Middle Eastern music to have different notes for ascending and descending passages.

In actual practice, on the oud or violin for instance, the notes of maqam hijaz and maqam hijaz kar don't exactly correspond to those on the guitar because the minor 2nd (F in this case) is often played slightly sharp and the major 3rd (G#) is frequently played slightly flat.

...also called "The Byzantine Scale"

kilometers
Scales are a great way to build up technique, learn the fretboard, and start to hear melodies you might want. Going back to my classical roots once again this evening, try what Andres Segovia put together.

http://chordmelody.org/pdf/Segovia%20Scales/

You go through almost all the positions, learn movable shapes and get two types of minor scales. Very Happy

I have to give a HUGE thank you for this link I have been searching for this info everywhere including several music store and all I got was blank looks.

I've got 20+ music books for Ukulele and now and can figure out how to pick the songs on the guitar. now for a little Hapa Haole done surf style.

"Maybe there aren't any surf bands; there's only surf music?" Tuck

Awesome thread. As soon as I get home from work I am going to start practicing some new scales

sorry for the resurrection of a zombie thread

dp wrote:

you could try out this scale...the "Byzantine" in E...should sound something like "Miserlou":

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?scch=E&scchnam=Byzantine&get2=Get

after you get the hang of this one, there are about a jillion other scales you could try-out...experiment...have fun!

thanks a lot for this links
even if i will not use all in fact i can hear how it sound easyly this way and maybe have inspiration with praticing one one day
since a long time i have work my scale
pentatonics
major
minor
harmonics
with a start at each note and it is really in surf or maybe in gypsy that i can use harmonics scale (also in metal sometime)
and even in fact it is good warm up for finger but when i play i use more my ear cause if you think scale you play scale
i have try to play some jazz at a time but it is not for me ,too much mathematic(chord progression ect...) and not wild as rock n roll that i love (rock is my music ,i feel it ,not jazz )
but it could be a good opportunity to open ears cause occidental music is less simple than oriental we have only 12 notes (in some oriental music they have lot of 1/4 of tune)

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Last edited: May 02, 2012 11:06:10

Don't know if this has been covered elsewhere, but a great way to practice this stuff is up & down one string. play a major scale on the E string. make a vamp with an E chord & improvise. just sounds like the major (ionian) scale. then record a vamp with an F#m chord & improvise using the same notes you just used. Voila! Dorian! Then a G#m chord--phrygian. etc etc. I find it gives a real nice sense of how the intervals sound.
If you're REALLY interested, Mick Goodrick's book "the advancing guitarist" covers this stuff in great detail.

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