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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Musician »

Permalink A new drip tip!

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crumble wrote:

DannySnyder wrote:

I recently bought a Quilter Steelaire, which I love! One surprising little feature of the amp was a built in setting for the footswitch marked vaguely "boost". It turns out it's a treble boost.

I remember you saying you used a Quilter MicroPro a while back. I wonder if the Steelaire boost differs from MicroPro Boost. Maybe the footswitch highlighted it's usefulness and MicroPro would be good for this also.

Completely different effects Malc. The MP200 has a boost with 5 or 6 different tones and a level adjust. The Steelaire is just an on/off. I'm sure it was designed for use with a pedal or lap steel guitar.

Danny Snyder

Latest project - Now That's What I Call SURF

Well darn, I came here today all excited about telling you guys that I had discovered a new drip secret! Come to think of it, I actually remember this thread now.

Anyway, last night I was practicing and was using my Demeter Tremulator. While I had the depth and speed set to around 3 0' clock, I noticed the drip had increased from when the pedal was turned off.

Out of curiosity, I turned the depth and speed all the way down. I did some palm muting and the drip was incredible! I am talking drip city here. I turned the pedal off, and the drip had dramatically reduced.

I even turned the volume up on the guitar/amp, and increased the treble on the amp, but it still didn't compare to the amazing drip I was getting with the pedal.

I am not exaggerating, there was really a huge difference. Anyone here with a Demeter and a tank needs to go try this out right away. Come back to this thread and let me know how you experience was.

Guitar player for The Driptones surf band.
https://www.driptones.com/

My Tremulator has the same result. There is a slight low-mid boost built into the pedal (in order to counteract a perceived tendency of the effect to get a bit lost at unity gain). Have gotten the same effect, and the emphasis on drip is in that low-mid area; it's quite nice & very robust. I can also get a similar effect, but accentuating the higher end, with a little GEQ pedal I have. This is comparing all things being as equal as possible, i.e., even rolling back the guitar a bit when turning it on. Consider it just another color in the palette. At first I didn't like the arbitrary boost in the Tremulator but when actually playing music the design works wonderfully.

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

I felt this thread was an appropriate place to post this, as it has to do with "drip!" My band and I played for the first time live last night, it was amazing! Maybe I will write a trip report about it sometime.

The reason for this post, however, is about my '63 Fender reverb unit. I have spent a ton of money on my '65 Twin Reverb, caps, resistors, labor, custom blonde cabinet, etc... I am trying to get the best possible sound I can out of it.

I hook up to play directly through a PA system last night, and the tank drips like it's about to flood the place. I mean, seriously? The drip sounded so amazing, and there was also no high pitched "clang" noise either.

I didn't know my tank could sound so good! The settings were T6 M8 D8. What gives people? Was it the live setting (a bar)? The PA system? Anyone else have this experience? Confused

Guitar player for The Driptones surf band.
https://www.driptones.com/

Are you saying you took the output of the tank and went into the P.A.? Not using the amp?

Danny Snyder

Latest project - Now That's What I Call SURF

The way it went was guitar, to Demeter trem, to reverb tank, to the PA system. I hope that makes sense.

Guitar player for The Driptones surf band.
https://www.driptones.com/

Last edited: Apr 24, 2017 16:39:08

Resurrecting an old thread.

I've done the same thing. Ran a guitar straight into a Surfybear classic then straight into a PA with no amp or pedals. It's the most drippiest reverb ever. However, the guitar tone isn't necessarily very good. But the drip is the most you'll ever hear.

Gellert (my first name)

Guitarist for The Fintastics

https://www.facebook.com/TheFintastics

I have a theory about this. I noticed that when standing in front of the cab, the drips weren’t that good or loud. I was dismayed. Then I listened to recordings and heard the drips loud and clear. So I crouched down so my head was directly in front of the cab speakers, and bang! Drips. That was the only position I could really hear the drips well. If I used tilt back legs, I’da heard them there too. Now I use a “drip mic” right over the seam of the dome, and that gets em. Those high frequencies are so much more directional than all the other ones, I didn’t realize how much of the drip was up there. Also those high freqs basically die after their first journey into air, whereas lower freqs penetrate and bounce all over the room. So if you run through a PA, those drips are essentially projecting at your face level on their first journey from the speakers. This allows you to hear all the high frequencies before they die. I think live, going through a PA or using tilt back legs are the best way to hear em. Maybe in the future I’ll use the PA for a “drip mic,” and then remove all the bass and mids! I wonder if that would sound good, just tinny drips coming from the PA. Might just be a feedback mess heh.

Dan
image

Daniel Deathtide

DeathTide wrote:

I have a theory about this. I noticed that when standing in front of the cab, the drips weren’t that good or loud. I was dismayed. Then I listened to recordings and heard the drips loud and clear. So I crouched down so my head was directly in front of the cab speakers, and bang! Drips. That was the only position I could really hear the drips well. If I used tilt back legs, I’da heard them there too. Now I use a “drip mic” right over the seam of the dome, and that gets em. Those high frequencies are so much more directional than all the other ones, I didn’t realize how much of the drip was up there. Also those high freqs basically die after their first journey into air, whereas lower freqs penetrate and bounce all over the room. So if you run through a PA, those drips are essentially projecting at your face level on their first journey from the speakers. This allows you to hear all the high frequencies before they die. I think live, going through a PA or using tilt back legs are the best way to hear em. Maybe in the future I’ll use the PA for a “drip mic,” and then remove all the bass and mids! I wonder if that would sound good, just tinny drips coming from the PA. Might just be a feedback mess heh.

Dan
image

That makes a lot of sense. Drip is somewhat a high frequency phenomenon, and it makes sense that it is much stronger at the center of the speaker.

I was experimenting with the sound from my Catalinbread Topanga a while back, and it sounded listless, that is until band practice, when I was keeping up with the drummer, volume wise. Suddenly, the reverb was right where I wanted it. Two things had changed, the volume and the fact that I was standing in front of the amp, when I practiced with the band. I think that being perpendicular to the amp’s speaker just killed the effect of the reverb, from my perspective, but once I was back in front of the amp, all was well.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

DeathTide, your theory is correct. I learned sometime after this post the reason the drip was so pronounced, is because the PA speakers were right at ear level. If I crouch down and listen to my amp while gigging, I get the same drippy sound. Also, the guitar tone playing through a PA is not that good!

Guitar player for The Driptones surf band.
https://www.driptones.com/

SixStringSurfer wrote:

DeathTide, your theory is correct. I learned sometime after this post the reason the drip was so pronounced, is because the PA speakers were right at ear level. If I crouch down and listen to my amp while gigging, I get the same drippy sound. Also, the guitar tone playing through a PA is not that good!

I’ve played a series of outdoor gigs where the PA is provided and professionally setup. This is a fairly good sized PA, so it can handle any frequency a Guitar, Bass, Drums trio can dish out. The sound was pretty decent, and the drip came through. In this case, I think it may have been that the mic’ was piinted at the center of the speaker, and even the 5 watt amp I was using sounded as big as a Showman through that PA. It probably wouldn’t have been so good with a small PA and smaller speakers, however.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Alongside my guitar amp speaker I use a piezo tweeter and an electronic crossover network to route just the high frequencies to the tweeter. I installed an L-pad volume control to the tweeter, so I can adjust its volume to get the twang, drip and clarity I crave.

The phenomenon you describe of hearing high frequencies only directly in front of the speakers is called "beaming." That is, the speaker beams high frequencies only straight ahead. The lower the frequency the broader the spatial distribution. A way to prevent beaming is to add a tweeter with good high frequency dispersion. This is what I did with my system.

The Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Jul 15, 2021 20:36:58

Squid wrote:

Alongside my guitar amp speaker I use a piezo tweeter and an electronic crossover network to route just the high frequencies to the tweeter. I installed an L-pad volume control to the tweeter, so I can adjust its volume to get the twang, drip and clarity I crave.

The phenomenon you describe of hearing high frequencies only directly in front of the speakers is called "beaming." That is, the speaker beams high frequencies only straight ahead. The lower the frequency the broader the spatial distribution. A way to prevent beaming is to add a tweeter with good high frequency dispersion. This is what I did with my system.

That makes a lot of sense. I knew that he was describing the beaming effect, but I had never thought of a piezo tweeter. However, I must ask, how does that effect the impedance that the output transformer sees?

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

That’s a good question about the impedance. I’m sure if adding a tweeter affects it, if would be easy to wire it in a way that keeps it the same (or close enough to not matter). You can control the tweeter independently on my bass cab from fully on to off without changing the impedance - at least enough to matter. That’s a pretty common feature, too, so it can’t be difficult.

-Eric

New music coming soon!

Also:
https://theverb.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/theverbseattle/

Last edited: Jul 16, 2021 08:55:30

synchro wrote:

That makes a lot of sense. I knew that he was describing the beaming effect, but I had never thought of a piezo tweeter. However, I must ask, how does that effect the impedance that the output transformer sees?

A crossover network should not change the impedance, nor should an L-pad on the high frequency output from the crossover network.

I housed the crossover network, the L-pad and the piezo tweeter in a small wooden box that came with some slightly fancy tea bags. I installed a phono plug input to the crossover network, from the speaker output of my amplifier head. I also installed a phono plug output to the regular guitar speaker from the crossover network. This way I can use the crossover network, piezo tweeter and L-pad with any of several different amp heads and speakers in cabinets.

The Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Squid wrote:

synchro wrote:

That makes a lot of sense. I knew that he was describing the beaming effect, but I had never thought of a piezo tweeter. However, I must ask, how does that effect the impedance that the output transformer sees?

A crossover network should not change the impedance, nor should an L-pad on the high frequency output from the crossover network.

I housed the crossover network, the L-pad and the piezo tweeter in a small wooden box that came with some slightly fancy tea bags. I installed a phono plug input to the crossover network, from the speaker output of my amplifier head. I also installed a phono plug output to the regular guitar speaker from the crossover network. This way I can use the crossover network, piezo tweeter and L-pad with any of several different amp heads and speakers in cabinets.

That sounds like a great idea. I’d love to see pictures.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Squid wrote:

synchro wrote:

That makes a lot of sense. I knew that he was describing the beaming effect, but I had never thought of a piezo tweeter. However, I must ask, how does that effect the impedance that the output transformer sees?

A crossover network should not change the impedance, nor should an L-pad on the high frequency output from the crossover network.

I housed the crossover network, the L-pad and the piezo tweeter in a small wooden box that came with some slightly fancy tea bags. I installed a phono plug input to the crossover network, from the speaker output of my amplifier head. I also installed a phono plug output to the regular guitar speaker from the crossover network. This way I can use the crossover network, piezo tweeter and L-pad with any of several different amp heads and speakers in cabinets.

Brilliant! I could see that making all the difference. I’m curious when you say this piezo is a tweeter with a wide upper freq dispersion, is that because it’s a piezo? I totally want to hear that. I do like the high freqs on the 15” speakers, would it be possible to have both? As in, split the signal before the crossover, and only send the highs to the tweeter and have the full range still going to the cab?

If I ever build a cab, I’m putting one of your contraptions inside.

Daniel Deathtide

The photo is below. When I first finished it I painted the outside black. I added the L-pad (with knob) later, and I then refinished it with glorious duct tape that has a checkerboard pattern. The black paint had become scuffed and at the time I wasn't in the mood to paint, so duct tape it was. For corner protection I dabbed on glops of silicone glue. It is too small for audiences to care about its appearance.

The box itself is 7" long and 4"x4" in cross-section. The crossover network and piezo tweeter fit inside nicely. The cables shown are wired to conduct power as speaker cables not as patch cables.

I expect there are other tweeters with greater dispersion, but this one does the job well. It didn't cost more than five dollars. The crossover network and L-pad cost more. In my first try I skipped the L-pad, but it was too loud, and its loudness varied greatly compared to the speakers I paired it with.

What about sending full frequency signal to the regular guitar speaker vs lower range crossover network output? The crossover network I have offers 2 kHz, 2.5 kHz, and 4 kHz crossover frequencies, and these are gradual (rather than sharp). I suggest you compare cross-over frequencies using your own guitar speaker and tweeter.

image

The Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Jul 16, 2021 22:05:50

Here is a photo of an earlier crossover network + piezo tweeter I installed inside a speaker cabinet holding a 15" Ashdown bass guitar speaker. IMO the system sounds best with the bass speaker connected for 2.5 kHz crossover and the tweeter connected for 2 kHz. In this cabinet I used a plain potentiometer to adjust tweeter volume, and it works well. I plug my guitar into an effects pedal, and the effects pedal output into the input of the Ashdown bass amp head in the photo.
image

The Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Jul 16, 2021 22:07:27

Squid wrote:

Here is a photo of an earlier crossover network + piezo tweeter I installed inside a speaker cabinet holding a 15" Ashdown bass guitar speaker. IMO the system sounds best with the bass speaker connected for 2.5 kHz crossover and the tweeter connected for 2 kHz. In this cabinet I used a plain potentiometer to adjust tweeter volume, and it works well. I plug my guitar into an effects pedal, and the effects pedal output into the input of the Ashdown bass amp head in the photo.

If I have time tomorrow, I’ll plug into my bass amp with a guitar and my reverb unit, crank up the piezo tweeter in that, and see what the drip sounds like. The idea of a piezo tweeter strikes me as a great tool for recording. Place on mic’ aimed at the main speaker and the other aimed at the piezo, and you could balance the drip heard on the recording because you would have one track that was mostly drip, and another that was mostly the guitar sound. Balance the faders to taste and you’d be in business.

When I hear the Astronauts’ recording of Baja, I always wonder if the engineers on that recording employed some method of making the drip more prominent. Of course, in those days, they didn’t have all sorts of extra tracks to devote to special purposes, but they might have been able to boost the EQ in one frequency band, or something along those lines, to make the drip more prominent. Or maybe, they just had great tanks, set to the perfect parameters. Smile

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Last edited: Jul 17, 2021 00:43:20

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