JakeDobner wrote:

PrestonRice wrote:

JakeDobner wrote:

Well, so is somebody with a single coil guitar and fender amp as well. Copying gets one nowhere.

It worked for Dick Dale and the Ventures.

I don't like the Ventures, and I hardly think we can accuse Dick Dale of copying!

Dick copied like hell. He had some originals, but tbh, his best songs were his covers and renditions.

IMO.

The Ventures weren't about song writing. If you dislike them because of that I think you're totally missing the point on why they were so influential and you're missing out on some fantastic records.

I see Jake's point about copying. You should always try to come up with originals. But I'll admit it here every surf song I ever wrote is a copy of something else. It's surf music. Even the original stuff borrows heavily from it's influences. At least the more traditional surf that I like. Which is probably why I gave up in playing only in surf bands. One needs a variety, but I like my surf traditional to some degree.

"as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"

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PrestonRice wrote:

Dick copied like hell. He had some originals, but tbh, his best songs were his covers and renditions.

The Wedge? The Victor? Night Rider? I think those were originals...

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BillAqua wrote:

The Ventures weren't about song writing. If you dislike them because of that I think you're totally missing the point on why they were so influential and you're missing out on some fantastic records.

I see Jake's point about copying. You should always try to come up with originals. But I'll admit it here every surf song I ever wrote is a copy of something else. It's surf music. Even the original stuff borrows heavily from it's influences. At least the more traditional surf that I like. Which is probably why I gave up in playing only in surf bands. One needs a variety, but I like my surf traditional to some degree.

There is being authentic, and then there is copying. Sometimes it just feels really unoriginal... Double-pick part, glissandoe part, trem arm part, rinse and repeat.

JakeDobner wrote:

BillAqua wrote:

The Ventures weren't about song writing. If you dislike them because of that I think you're totally missing the point on why they were so influential and you're missing out on some fantastic records.

I see Jake's point about copying. You should always try to come up with originals. But I'll admit it here every surf song I ever wrote is a copy of something else. It's surf music. Even the original stuff borrows heavily from it's influences. At least the more traditional surf that I like. Which is probably why I gave up in playing only in surf bands. One needs a variety, but I like my surf traditional to some degree.

There is being authentic, and then there is copying. Sometimes it just feels really unoriginal... Double-pick part, glissandoe part, trem arm part, rinse and repeat.

So what do you suggest to make a surf song more original? And I'm speaking in the trad-surf genre only. I think there are certain styles of guitar playing that lend to genres that we expect to hear. I see no problem with reverb, double-picked parts, glissandos, and trem action in surf music. I listen to a surf album and almost expect that. But it's also what I want to hear when I'm in the mood for surf music. Similarly to how I like a bit of slap back echo when listening to rockabilly guitar.

I don't know if Ivan would like to be considered a trad surf guitarist, or someone like Ryan from Secret Samurai but when I listen to them they certainly aren't Dick Dale copies but I hear the influence of trad surf in their playing and both of those guys incorporate the style of play you seem bored of. I guess they are what you'd consider "authentic"?

When I think copying I think of Beatle and Elvis impersonators more so than guitarists who incorporate a certain style of play into their music.

"as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"

https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
https://www.facebook.com/TheDragstripVipers/

how about what the stray cats did to rockabilly? they too the original concept and sound and took it to another place.

What Brian Setzer did to Rockabilly was just downright amazing.

I mean, in all honesty, who could take such a rigid genre and modernize it to the point of sheer awesomeness the way he did?

thinking out of the box results in either:
a) sheer genius and world wide acclaim
b) ridicule and messed up attempt of being original

Either way, what is there to lose?

exactly.

Thanks for the kind words and mention Jake and Bill! Especially, since I'm both a Reluctant Aquanauts and 'Verb fan as well! Jake, I still wear my 'Verb T-shirt almost weekly! (very well made shirt )

I agree with both of you actually. There is sometimes a thin line between "influence" and "derivation". Like Bill, when I'm in the mood for surf, I do depend on a certain sound. Otherwise, I do tend to listen to something else to satisfy some other part of my brain.

Oh, and I can only echo Jake's sentiments about The Reluctant Aquanauts. I often listen to the last, unreleased Aquanauts recording that Bill linked to a few years ago here. I listen to it when I'm looking for that sound! Would love to see an RA comeback Bill!

Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook

Last edited: Jul 08, 2013 13:17:45

Yay!!! Fun thread!

I just dislike the sound of the Ventures, they feel empty and emotionless, and I don't quite get them, if you know what I mean. I just don't see the appeal behind another "surf-esque" cover band.

I'm not saying I hate covers, or the Ventures, but when an instrumental cover band becomes as big a success as the Ventures have, something's off.

IMO.