Improvise or Play it original?

GretschEastwood

Joined: Dec 23, 2020
Posts: 53
Bradenton, FL
United States

Posted on May 06 2021 11:01 AM

Do you improvise solos on surf classics or stick to the original rhythm and melody?

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Merlin

Joined: Feb 03, 2011
Posts: 111
Brampton, ON
Canada

Posted on May 06 2021 11:34 AM

Depends. Sometimes some great heads had some sucky noodling in between. That gets changed. I'm getting more enjoyment out of adapting different tunes lately for my surf rep - case in point, the Mandalorian theme I've been working on.

There's obviously some things that are iconic, but it's on a case by case basis. Heck, I've even freshened up some old surf tunes by doing a harmonized double lead on them.

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Samurai

Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2258
Kiev, Ukraine
Ukraine

Posted on May 06 2021 01:04 PM

I never remember them, so yes, improvise!)))

—

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

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revmike

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3812
North Atlantic
Canada

Posted on May 06 2021 01:36 PM

I will improvise solos 99% of the time. Both live and in recordings. This is my favourite thing to do.

Rev

—

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

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DeathTide

Joined: Apr 13, 2018
Posts: 1378
New Orleans
United States

Posted on May 06 2021 01:40 PM

To me it’s super boring when a cover is exactly the same.

—

Daniel Deathtide

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Ariel

Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
Israel

Posted on May 06 2021 02:04 PM

Great question!
Personally I find it very worthwhile to go not note for note, but also imitate the feel, accents, all the subtle style parameters. I learn a whole lot that way. Once I got it down (to a degree...), then it's time to go wild and insert my own.
If I start with improvisation, there's a chance that I'm doing it not because of 'free artist spirit', it's just that I can't replicate what I hear, and it annoys me!

Last edited: May 06, 2021 14:06:07

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JohnnyMosrite

Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 905
New York City area

Posted on May 06 2021 02:25 PM

I make my best effort learning a tune note for note.
Then I add my special sauce so it sounds like me.

I saw a kid once on Youtube who sounded like Nokie Edwards.
His problem:
He sounded like Nokie Edwards.
He didn't add a note of whatever was him to the tune.
Maybe if he keeps at it, some of him will work its way into the mix.
Good, bad, or indifferent.. adding "you" to the tune makes the listener hear ==> you.

J Mo'

Last edited: May 06, 2021 14:26:10

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Squid

Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
18 News Pins

Posted on May 06 2021 03:42 PM

Third choice: play from sheet music. In my teens I learned Walk Don't Run from a transcription in B flat minor. The clef for this key has five flats, and in this key the song doesn't have single open string. From this I learned it is much harder to play as I am told to. Still, without any open strings I can play Walk Don't Run in any key...

—

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

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ElBorko

Joined: Mar 20, 2020
Posts: 20
Oregon
United States

Posted on May 07 2021 02:12 AM

I try to learn a song close to the original. Then I get distracted and fill in the unknowns with my own ideas. Then I work on it until it sounds presentable. The end result is usually different from the original, but I like that.

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simoncoil

Joined: Sep 28, 2012
Posts: 916
Berlin, Germany
1 News Pin

Posted on May 07 2021 02:25 AM

revmike wrote:

I will improvise solos 99% of the time. Both live and in recordings. This is my favourite thing to do.

Rev

Same here. We have sections in some of our songs, that have room for improvised solos, just to have a change from the strictly arranged parts to something with a more loose feeling. But this only concerns our original songs, as the few cover songs we still play do not have solos.

In my first surf band we also played completely improvised pieces in the sense of spontaneously making up a 2-3 minute song: "Let's play something in A minor and call it 'Rocket to Mars'." On some occastions that lead to some interesting music (at least for us musicians) but a few times it also resulted in a complete train wreck.

—

Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!

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Tikidog

Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 186
15 News Pins

Posted on May 07 2021 05:12 AM

I try to learn the original and know what is happening in the original version. Then I try to come up with my own version of it.
To me that's what it's all about.
Do an interpretation of the song....change the groove, play the melody in a new way, maybe add a solo where there was none and so on.
I also think that a lot of the old recordings were done on the spot - recorded live and the solos where probably improvised. Learning that and playing it exactly the way it was done 50/60 years ago seems kinda strange to me...like learning an improvised solo from hendrix or a jazz guitarist and play it live the same way every time .....although the original player just played it like this once.

It's a good exercise to transcribe stuff note for note, analyse it and learn from it, but to recreate it note for note on a stage is the wrong approach for me. For me, Surf and Rock music in general is not about having a written part and play it the same way every time like a classical musician. It's more having fixed parts and play around them. In surf these variations seem to be more subtle than in jazz or blues or improvised rock, but they still happen and that's the beauty of playing live

Last edited: May 10, 2021 04:05:49

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tahitijack

Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Posts: 693
San Clemente, CA
United States

Posted on May 07 2021 01:22 PM

You should decide of you want to be a note player or a note reader.

—

Happy Sunsets!

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cosmonaut

Joined: Apr 02, 2019
Posts: 339

Posted on May 10 2021 03:48 AM

whichever allows YOU to play the song with more feeling and emotion. emotionless technical ability bores me to tears as a sound person.

Last edited: May 10, 2021 03:48:25

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el_pablo

Joined: Apr 16, 2012
Posts: 94
Biot
France

Posted on May 10 2021 06:46 AM

Ideally do both. To do justice to a song, you should probably learn it well first before trying to improvise over it.

—

Paul

The Dead Planet Surfers

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Toneschaser

Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 462
Ohio!
59 Calendar Pins

Posted on May 10 2021 07:57 AM

I do a little of both. I like to give a nod to the original while also taking things in a slightly different direction.

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ColoCoug

Joined: Aug 02, 2019
Posts: 9
Fort Collins CO
United States

Posted on May 11 2021 01:49 PM

I think there's room for both. One of my favorite tunes is Pipeline, and our guitarist (I play bass) would use the solo to work in the Munsters theme, Batman, and anything else that fit. The crowd always loved it.

—

It's easy to go the extra mile when you miss the last exit.

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GretschEastwood Joined: Dec 23, 2020 Posts: 53 Bradenton, FL	Posted on May 06 2021 11:01 AM Do you improvise solos on surf classics or stick to the original rhythm and melody? Top
Merlin Joined: Feb 03, 2011 Posts: 111 Brampton, ON	Posted on May 06 2021 11:34 AM Depends. Sometimes some great heads had some sucky noodling in between. That gets changed. I'm getting more enjoyment out of adapting different tunes lately for my surf rep - case in point, the Mandalorian theme I've been working on. There's obviously some things that are iconic, but it's on a case by case basis. Heck, I've even freshened up some old surf tunes by doing a harmonized double lead on them. Top
Samurai Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 2258 Kiev, Ukraine	Posted on May 06 2021 01:04 PM I never remember them, so yes, improvise!))) — Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki Lost Diver https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin Top
revmike Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 3812 North Atlantic	Posted on May 06 2021 01:36 PM I will improvise solos 99% of the time. Both live and in recordings. This is my favourite thing to do. Rev — Canadian Surf http://www.urbansurfkings.com/ Top
DeathTide Joined: Apr 13, 2018 Posts: 1378 New Orleans	Posted on May 06 2021 01:40 PM To me it’s super boring when a cover is exactly the same. — Daniel Deathtide Top
Ariel Joined: Aug 29, 2009 Posts: 1556 Israel	Posted on May 06 2021 02:04 PM Great question! Personally I find it very worthwhile to go not note for note, but also imitate the feel, accents, all the subtle style parameters. I learn a whole lot that way. Once I got it down (to a degree...), then it's time to go wild and insert my own. If I start with improvisation, there's a chance that I'm doing it not because of 'free artist spirit', it's just that I can't replicate what I hear, and it annoys me! Last edited: May 06, 2021 14:06:07 Top
JohnnyMosrite Joined: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 905 New York City area	Posted on May 06 2021 02:25 PM I make my best effort learning a tune note for note. Then I add my special sauce so it sounds like me. I saw a kid once on Youtube who sounded like Nokie Edwards. His problem: He sounded like Nokie Edwards. He didn't add a note of whatever was him to the tune. Maybe if he keeps at it, some of him will work its way into the mix. Good, bad, or indifferent.. adding "you" to the tune makes the listener hear ==> you. J Mo' Last edited: May 06, 2021 14:26:10 Top
Squid Joined: Aug 22, 2010 Posts: 1018 Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers	Posted on May 06 2021 03:42 PM Third choice: play from sheet music. In my teens I learned Walk Don't Run from a transcription in B flat minor. The clef for this key has five flats, and in this key the song doesn't have single open string. From this I learned it is much harder to play as I am told to. Still, without any open strings I can play Walk Don't Run in any key... — Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com Top
ElBorko Joined: Mar 20, 2020 Posts: 20 Oregon	Posted on May 07 2021 02:12 AM I try to learn a song close to the original. Then I get distracted and fill in the unknowns with my own ideas. Then I work on it until it sounds presentable. The end result is usually different from the original, but I like that. Top
simoncoil Joined: Sep 28, 2012 Posts: 916 Berlin, Germany	Posted on May 07 2021 02:25 AM revmike wrote: I will improvise solos 99% of the time. Both live and in recordings. This is my favourite thing to do. Rev Same here. We have sections in some of our songs, that have room for improvised solos, just to have a change from the strictly arranged parts to something with a more loose feeling. But this only concerns our original songs, as the few cover songs we still play do not have solos. In my first surf band we also played completely improvised pieces in the sense of spontaneously making up a 2-3 minute song: "Let's play something in A minor and call it 'Rocket to Mars'." On some occastions that lead to some interesting music (at least for us musicians) but a few times it also resulted in a complete train wreck. — Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin) "Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms! "Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records! Top
Tikidog Joined: Jun 23, 2006 Posts: 186	Posted on May 07 2021 05:12 AM I try to learn the original and know what is happening in the original version. Then I try to come up with my own version of it. To me that's what it's all about. Do an interpretation of the song....change the groove, play the melody in a new way, maybe add a solo where there was none and so on. I also think that a lot of the old recordings were done on the spot - recorded live and the solos where probably improvised. Learning that and playing it exactly the way it was done 50/60 years ago seems kinda strange to me...like learning an improvised solo from hendrix or a jazz guitarist and play it live the same way every time .....although the original player just played it like this once. It's a good exercise to transcribe stuff note for note, analyse it and learn from it, but to recreate it note for note on a stage is the wrong approach for me. For me, Surf and Rock music in general is not about having a written part and play it the same way every time like a classical musician. It's more having fixed parts and play around them. In surf these variations seem to be more subtle than in jazz or blues or improvised rock, but they still happen and that's the beauty of playing live Last edited: May 10, 2021 04:05:49 Top
tahitijack Joined: Nov 03, 2006 Posts: 693 San Clemente, CA	Posted on May 07 2021 01:22 PM You should decide of you want to be a note player or a note reader. — Happy Sunsets! Top
cosmonaut Joined: Apr 02, 2019 Posts: 339	Posted on May 10 2021 03:48 AM whichever allows YOU to play the song with more feeling and emotion. emotionless technical ability bores me to tears as a sound person. Last edited: May 10, 2021 03:48:25 Top
el_pablo Joined: Apr 16, 2012 Posts: 94 Biot	Posted on May 10 2021 06:46 AM Ideally do both. To do justice to a song, you should probably learn it well first before trying to improvise over it. — Paul The Dead Planet Surfers Top
Toneschaser Joined: Jun 14, 2012 Posts: 462 Ohio!	Posted on May 10 2021 07:57 AM I do a little of both. I like to give a nod to the original while also taking things in a slightly different direction. Top
ColoCoug Joined: Aug 02, 2019 Posts: 9 Fort Collins CO	Posted on May 11 2021 01:49 PM I think there's room for both. One of my favorite tunes is Pipeline, and our guitarist (I play bass) would use the solo to work in the Munsters theme, Batman, and anything else that fit. The crowd always loved it. — It's easy to go the extra mile when you miss the last exit. Top

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Improvise or Play it original?