I am going to express myself here, because it really seems to me that, on days like these, using the word "hate" for a case like this is not serious. Honestly, the words "hate" go far beyond someone correcting it for misdefining a musical genre. The question is very simple, if you join a discussion group with people who play a musical genre with enough experience and do not use the correct definitions ... what is wrong with someone correcting it?
As someone said before, although the types of music mixes and are difficult to define, it is good that "purist" people defend a certain identity so that can last over the time. I firmly believe that purism has nothing to do with gear, I think it is a musical attitude, and I sincerely believe that our genre should be called "surf music" because it has a particular sound and because it encompasses much more than rock. It would be basically defining "Blues" as "blues rock" or reggae as "reggae rock". I think that surf music has its own identity that despite its roots can be defined as "surf music" by itself, and I feel that many times there are people who feel that defining a band as "no surf" is making a pejorative treatment of those bands. I love shadows and ventures, but they never defined themselves as "surf" bands, it is true that there are times of them that perhaps get into the genre, but they never defined themselves as "surf" bands. It is not a matter of hate, it is a matter of trying to classify music to study and understand it. Now, if there are people who resent being corrected somewhere, it seems to me that they are people who have no intention of learning, and taking offense at something like that seems quite childish to me. In a world full of racism, pedophilia, exploitation and femicide, feeling hated for being told "it's surf music" in a facebook discussion group seems to me exaggerated...just my 2 cents

El Papu & los Fantasticos Reverberantes

Last edited: Jun 09, 2020 10:01:35

djangodeadman wrote:

da-ron wrote:

Surf music is a small enough genre as it is. There's no need to divide it any smaller, in my opinion.

If you were to say that while we were sharing a beer in Livorno and I were to reply, “Ooh, I don’t know about that,” you would know from my expression and from the fact that we’re mates, that I was saying this in jest. If I were to reply like that in this thread, I would appear to be the kind of jerk who likes to start fights online! We can all enjoy a face to face conversation about whether X or Y is surf or not, but online things rapidly escalate, I’m afraid.

well, exactly. I don't think we've really evolved sufficiently for social media - to express ourselves clearly and concisely, to realise that other opinions don't really matter, just as your own opinion doesn't really matter.

I'm always baffled why people get so wound up over music labels. As for my band, it's described perfectly:

"Music from when your mom was a beach babe".

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

raylinds wrote:

I listen to a lot of 50s and 60s instrumental music. Surf, spy, spaghetti western, country western and hot rods. I kind of lump it all together mentally, but I know the difference is. The reality is, if one goes to a festival with multiple surf bands, you are likely to hear a little bit of all of it, like if you spent a day listening to Venture records.

Yes, surf has a very special place in my heart, but I am thankful that it all exists.

Now, I absolutely love the Beach Boys, but don't really consider it surf. I wouldn't bother arguing about it, though- same thing with The Ventures and The Shadows.

I have very eclectic taste and frequent a number of music forums and have witnessed arguments that electric blues is not real blues- only acoustic blues is.. I've even witnessed discussions about the difference between rock and rock & roll. Don't even start with Yacht Rock.

Good points.

There’s a band called the Bakersfield Breakers which straddles Surf and the Bakersfield sound. It’s an interesting and very effective mix.

The lines between genres and sub-genres are somewhat arbitrary. One person may place them Quite differently from someone else. In the final analysis, taste plays a major role. The only Rock n’ Roll band to appear on the Lawrence Welk show, were the Chantays. Lawrence Welk played music that was along the lines of Old Time, but he saw merit in Pipeline. I think that’s pretty cool, but Pipeline is a great tune, and even someone that lived in the world of Polkas could see the musical value of it.

And that’s where I draw my lines. There are all sorts of songs that are well conceived and well played. Some are rooted in the Huntington Beach of 1962, some from the Inland Empire, some from Boulder, Colorado and some from Minneapolis, Minnesota. And that’s just some of the famous bands. For every one of those, there were untold numbers of bands in small town America, not to mention in Europe, Scandinavia, and the British Isles, playing very similar material. The Spotnicks, Shadows or Tielman Brothers may not have ever recorded Baja or Penetration, but I have no doubt that they could have played the hell out of those tunes.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

martinblasick wrote:

I never heard of hot rod music before this thread. Looked it up and listened to Dick Dale's. Fun The permutations are many!

On this forum I feel like that little bee girl at the end of the No Rain video who finally finds other bee people. This is the land of surf/spy/spaghetti western with an affection for retro future sci fi lovers. It's great - and I realize I'm not so unique after all cause I see so many of my wonderful ideas have already been done. So much for being original. I'm just be happy to be at a party of like minded superior humans!!

Samurai wrote:

• What do you play?
• Surf rock!!!
• Cooool!

Well that's actually really helpful. Cause I want to know what to call it and get an effective response from non musicians, you know so I get my slice of that easy surf lucre.

“Tarantino style music” is even more effective, at least here in ex-USSR)))

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

I detect no hate, what I detect is ignorance (lack of listening and musical analysis) that leads to sterile discussion ... also ... I found that the folks that embrace the "surf music" term are the ones that make major contributions to spread the music, buy the records, attend to festivals and shows, play in really good bands and in general have a deeper knowledge and wider perspective about the past, present and future of the genre ... for them it is not just some type of "rock" or a flavor ... it's part of their lives ... their culture ... so making statements and wanting people to go deeper into listening and notice how special this music fully justifies letting know people their perspective is superficial, which is not the same as hating ... maybe not what they want to read or listen ... honesty is not much appreciated these days.

When you have to shoot ... shoot! Don't talk.

"Los Grainders" > https://losgrainders.bandcamp.com
"The Strings Aflame" > https://thestringsaflame.bandcamp.com
"Planeta Reverb" > www.instagram.com/planetareverb

Last edited: Jun 10, 2020 08:27:43

PS we never said Surf Music either. It's SURF. Do you say "Rock Music", "Blues Music", "Jazz Music"? No, Surf bands play Surf.
Just adding an additional level...

http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com

Composition vs Execution. Two different matters. I'm chiming in late, so I'm probably way off topic. Anyway, for me surf is strictly the feeling it invokes, the pictures in my mind. I don't like to be restricted by tightly defined parameters when I write, but I will admit for surf instros (as I call them) I gravitate to reverb, beautiful swaying melodies, pounding drums and songs that make me wish that a "real beach" wasn't 6 hours away.
Good topic.

Surf.The most dangerous of genres...

Surfcat

MARCH OF THE DEAD SURFERS! (2024) - Agent Octopus
THE JOURNEY HOME - Free download (2025) - Agent Octopus (Single)

BANDCAMP - Agent Octopus
YOUTUBE - Agent Octopus Surf
BANDCAMP - Reverb Galaxy

RobbieReverb wrote:

Love of the music is really all that matters. Kudos to anybody who loves and promotes this great music!

YES

Surf.The most dangerous of genres...

Surfcat

MARCH OF THE DEAD SURFERS! (2024) - Agent Octopus
THE JOURNEY HOME - Free download (2025) - Agent Octopus (Single)

BANDCAMP - Agent Octopus
YOUTUBE - Agent Octopus Surf
BANDCAMP - Reverb Galaxy

TikiDog

I find something to like in all five of those versions. Actually, I was surprised by the fact that I liked some of these. I really didn't expect that I would like Anthrax, but it was pretty good.

The Bill Frisell version was quite spacey and ethereal, but I liked the sound he got. He defies classification, moving from genre to genre quite deftly, so it's no surprise that he would find a way to use a Surf timbre in a Jazz context.

The Ventures sounded like a Surf band to my ear.

The Kai Winding version was the biggest surprise. However, it points up something that I think is illuminating with regard to the subject at hand.

Throughout the '60s, the sound of a clean guitar with prominent reverb was heard all over the place. I recall hearing songs of this nature on the radio station my parents listened to, fairly middle of the road songs played on twangy guitars, with reverb and a Rock beat. It wasn't exactly Dick Dale, but it was similar in sound and feel to some of the more mellow Surf tracks, such as Dick Dale's Summer Surf.

Paul Johnson's comment (as quoted earlier) about the various associations being after the fact rings true.

"All of those associations are kind of after the fact, because the music was already fully formed. We were playing the music of the rock instrumental bands, which was not associated with surf. From my experiences, when the Bel Airs started to throw dances, that was the year the surf craze hit. It was just an accident that we were living at the beach and playing this music and the surfers were the ones that came to the dances and they started calling it surf music."

Frankly, I don't recall hearing the term "Surf Music" back then. In 1962, if you had mentioned the the "Surf Music" we would likely have assumed that you were referring to Jan & Dean or The Beach Boys. We were aware of the songs we think of as Surf Music today, at the time, but I don't recall these being called Surf Music. When one of my first guitar teachers taught me Pipeline, he never referred to it as Surf.

The first time I recall seeing the term "Surf Music" in print was in a Guitar Player Magazine column penned by Jeff Baxter, circa 1975. He was talking about his old gear and mentioned a Fender tube reverb that he was keeping "in case Surf Music ever came back".

In no way do I object to the term Surf Music; I rather like it. But I use it as shorthand for a fairly broad category of Instrumental Rock, which would include everything from Dick Dale in full fury, to somewhat mellower songs given the treatment of twangy guitar and reverb. I have no problem with the Ventures, Spy Music, or even Duane Eddy, coming along for the ride. Walk Don't Run was recorded in 1960 and was very similar to the Surf Music of 1962, in everything but name. If Johnny Smith had named it Surf, Don't Walk, it would probably have been considered a Surf tune.

Here's a well-known Surf tune played on a Bass VI with perfect drip, but backed by an orchestra. It's from the Jack Nitzsche's album, The Lonely Surfer. If only for contrast, it's an interesting listen, but I find that I like it, overall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz_oJjQt7NQ

The Lonely Surfer was certainly not along the lines of the typical Surf Band, but the sound of David Gates playing that Bass VI through drippy reverb is amazing. Even if you hate French Horns, it's worth listening to.

Al Casey was a session guitarist and part of the famed Wrecking Crew. He did an album called Surfin' Hootenanny. The first song is a bit outside my tastes, but overall, the album has a lot of very good playing and the sound is perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj5BrU-ibDo

Al Casey's album is not such an unexpected source. He probably played lead guitar on a lot of recordings we've all heard. El Aguila, Thunder Beach and Baja are the standouts on this, at least for me. The guitar sound is excellent, albeit there is the possibility of some post prod' enhancement. Al Casey was not the typical bushy, bushy blond hairdo Surfer-type, but he sure got a great sound.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

websurfer wrote:

That Bill Frisell is piece is a beautiful interpretation. The drummer is really stellar too--the way he used the ride cymbal to approximate the sounds of crashing waves. I still remember Jake Dobner's story of meeting him at his friend's music store and talking surf music with him and his enthusiasm for it.

I'm going to get into the weeds even deeper and make a distinction between rock and rock and roll. Surf came from the latter, and the roll is the swing part. What the Chantays version has (and the Frisell, Kai Winding, and Ventures) that Johnny Thunders and Anthrax don't is that swing element. To me, as soon as you put that straight rock beat on it, it essentially becomes something else. Not to mention losing the dynamics which I think is crucial to the mood. (I agree with ArtSpoint about mood above).

That’s an interesting point.

I’ve always preferred the older, Rock n’ Roll feel. I didn’t learn to play until ‘66, but I always gravitated to the sound of early ‘60s music. When distortion really took off, following the Stone’s Satisfaction, I didn’t really care for it. To this day, the cleanish sounds of the early ‘60s resonate with my tastes.

The late sixties, into the mid seventies, were my teen years, and I like a lot of that music, but not to the extent that I like the early sixties stuff. By that time, the sound was Marshalls and Les Pauls. The guitar had power and grit, but rarely did it sing the way it did on the older stuff.

The early Rock n’ Roll players were exploring virgin territory. They were using the Electric guitar to maintain the continuity and sonic flow of a song. They used sustained notes, open strings and were very skilled at “rolling” their way through a song without leaving major sonic gaps. The cleanIsh amps of the era really brought that out.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.