ElectricLimnology wrote:

Toneschaser wrote:

One thing though guys, you can't surf with a Les Paul?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X6PI3z1gog&list=PLenaS4c0c83P3nOrlh_fgEc9MvzU6Z4aP

If a Les Paul could surf it would be a Junior with P-90s! Just like the one in the pictures on your band's website! The exception that proves the rule! Your recordings sound really great!

This is definitely the most thought provoking thread since I joined the forum. It's the thing I think about the most when I'm on here.

As far as being "ageist" as Synchro justifiably pointed out (I know you are not being accusatory), years really have little to do with it. To varying degrees we are all trying to recreate the feeling of creating something when we were younger. I'm in my 40s now and I have rarely come close to the kind of ecstatic joy I experienced from playing in a band and experimenting with sound as a teenager and in my early twenties. On some level we are all seeking to re experience how we felt in our earliest bands. Even those among us who perhaps didn't even pick up instruments until later in life are pursuing that feeling because they know it's there. They can here it in the same recordings that inspired us as young people. Perhaps we just had more indulgent or wealthier parents. Rock n/ roll music is the music of youth no matter the age of the person playing it. A while ago I read an interview with Steve Albini where he says that bands are basically a way for adult men to participate in the rituals of adolescence (I don't want to spend the time looking for the quote but I think it came from an interview in Tape Op). I know that is a true statement. I point out what I see as the absurdity of this pursuit because I think it's emotionally grounding and genuinely funny. You know "don't take yourself so seriously. We're playing music for teenagers". They were having fun and so should we. This is especially important when we become too pre occupied with the material side of things. I don't care what Surfer Joe said (in another thread), you do not need a $4000 amplifier to play this or any other kind of electric folk music. Vintage or boutique gear will make it more period authentic if that is your main interest. But the only thing you really need is passion and imagination.

I'm supposed to be doing my taxes. Back to work.

Psych your mind again! I'm using a humbucker loaded Goldtop on that tune. Folks often think the Patent applied for humbucker sound is fat and undefined (like me), but in reality, the true PAF tone has a lot of top end and spank in addition to the warmth. Very versatile pickups that very few modern manufacturers get right.

Thanks for the kind words about the band and my sound! We need to update that website, haven't done much with it for a couple years! All social media these days.

Last edited: Feb 05, 2019 16:01:13

stratdancer wrote:

Didn't mean to come on so strong Sam. For many surf musicians around the world like myself the road to surf has been a long one. In my case it grew on me due to the absence of vocal work. As a rock musician with a strong desire to be a performance artist, you have to find the place you will make your stand. A place that you will hitch your wagon to and hang your hat through thick and thin. I listened to surf music for almost a full decade before I even started playing surf. I was playing modern rock with a heavy influence from 70's classic rock and occasionally trying to play surf. I wasn't able to play surf until I was able to make surf guitar sound with my guitar. It took amp, guitar and equipment changes to allow me to hear my place in the genre. Once I started writing and playing various other artists I knew this was going to be an important sound in my area of the country. People that love music tend to love surf if they get a chance to see and hear it. I'm lucky that I am in an area that loves music but NE Ohio has never been known for surf music. That is my luck.

As far as pipeline and wipeout are concerned, we do play pipeline occasionally but it ends up being so fast we can barely keep up with it. Most of our music is at 180 bpm. Surf as a genre has so many different elements to it that playing the standards is my last choice. For us, this isn't a stand there and perform a ventures song perfectly kind of band. We are a balls to the wall barrage of notes and expression band but the bands that do various covers are incredible for their musicianship. There is so much more to surf than surf. I feel that labeling it surf does such a disservice to the genre but what else do you call it?

Don't feel you have to leave the genre because of anything I said but if you aren't creating a great tone with your equipment and have an intense desire to pick up your guitar and play or write surf music then maybe it's not your thing. When I play, it's exhilarating to hear and I climb deeper into melodies and vision the different twist and turns a piece can have. That never seems to end.

The question posed was just that. I explained what I am working towards in 2019 with the goal of more credibility as a musical act and a larger audience. That is important to me and hopefully important to other surf musicians. I put the question out there to see how others might be thinking to broaden the genre because it's important to everyone. I guess I felt the need to question if you really understood the thread and the bigger picture. You won't really climb deeply into surf unless you have the sound that suits you. That's what's going to be your inspiration. If you are using a modeling amp with 9's strung up you may not be getting a full understanding of your place in surf.

I just like playing my own songs and metal guitar type leads etc ...its just a natural style of mine. I just think Surf is going no-where fast (especially where I live). I just think I can make more on YouTube even verse playing live (Which we all know is a hard racket to pull off and make a living at it.) That's my plan that's all.

But Surf is excellent for learning scales and keeping your chops (most excellent). And great for pacing and timing as well. I just think most people in the audience like vocal songs over instrumentals. Club owners and promoters seem to fit that category as well.

Most music today is very genre driven and specific in regard to type of instruments used and the way they are played. To me Surf instrumental bands usually have a Bass, 2 guitars - drummer - keyboard and or Saxophone. I think its important to keep within the expectations or today's genre specific expectations (especially in regard to promotors). Surf is hard enough to sell as it is and it would be much harder to promote with deviations too far from that model.

There again most music I hear on the Top 100 I usually do not like - no guitar solos (Or even guitars at all) mostly hook driven lyrics written and produced by people that take all the earnings from these creations. This model makes the most money for them and all the music is starting to sound the same because of it. Its not better its just the best way to make a buck.

So how will Surf Instrumentals fair in this new paradigm? I don't know - it doesn't look good to me ...R&B/soul has had more influence in Country and Pop recently and Hip-hop has influenced the chorus structures or content. Those too forms seem to be the biggest change up - So can you combine Surf and Hip-hop (at least percussion wise ?) Surf on Rap ???

Last edited: Feb 06, 2019 11:14:40

Yes! My thought is that if you’re trying to make money, or even a living from music, the worst genre to play would be surf.

Daniel Deathtide

The last surf instrumental to hit the Billboard Top 10 was “Hawaii Five-O” by the Ventures No. 4, April 1969

This list contains every instrumental, as classified by Billboard, that has made it to the Top 10 over the past 50 years.

It's an interesting and entertaining read. (A heads up: I just tried to revisit the above link and the site wanted me to create an account or sign in with Google or Facebook. I hate that. Just take a good look around the first time you hit the site.)

Two factoids from the article:

“Tequila” by the Champs, hit No. 1 back in 1958 and is arguably the first rock & roll instrumental to hit the top 10. (Side note: "Raunchy" by Bill Justis hit No. 55 on the 1957 Billboard year-end Top 100.)

“Harlem Shake” by Baauer peaked at No. 1, reached Top 40 in February 2013. Billboard revamped its charting methodology to include streaming data, in part because of the viral success of this song, allowing it to debut at No. 1. Although the song blew up on YouTube, Baauer himself never made a “Harlem Shake” video.

-Tim
MyYouTubeChannel
My Classic Instrumental Surf Music Timeline
SSS Agent #777

Last edited: Feb 06, 2019 14:26:03

Sam, I think trying to change the music industry is a goal to lofty for me. I think it's unrealistic. I will say that there are certain bands that might find a place in more metal and hard rock festivals and the one I'm thinking of is Daikaiju. They work extremely hard touring and seem to be on the road constantly. They are basically the only surf band that tours regularly. Their music is brand of surf that could do well in a lineup of hard rock acts. I know that I have no plans to load up the van, leave my business to run without me, all so I could make peanuts going city to city. Most of those in surf seem to have very important careers and do this for love and hobby. As stated, my goal for 2019 is to elevate the sonic delivery of the band and build more credibility for our genre. I believe this will put the band in front of larger audiences and expose more people to surf music.

The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:

But Surf is excellent for learning scales and keeping your chops (most excellent). And great for pacing and timing as well. I just think most people in the audience like vocal songs over instrumentals. Club owners and promoters seem to fit that category as well.

You’ve unearthed my secret. One thing I love about Surf is the precision which can be applied to it.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I have that exact question - what would have happened if not for the whole Beatles / vocals chart domination. My thoughts are that surf would have continued until it was vomitously mainstream (beach boys except with zero talent) and became a parody of itself, and then truly faded into embarrassing obscurity. With all the classics that we know and love getting buried in the waves of vanilla imitators who “broke” and rode the wave into ruin.

Since it didn’t, for sure what you’ve said is true - fewer people playing leads to fewer musical innovation. If surf had stayed in the charts, I’m certain we would have seen a host of “variations.” Salsa surf! Lounge surf! Country surf! I mean, almost all that’s really been done is blues surf and some Middle Eastern surf, and of course garage surf.

Just imagine what Chuck Berry would have thought of Van Halen or The Smiths! It’s pretty cool to be alive right now and be witness to the evolution of rock music. Even if it is dying, folks are doing pretty incredible things with guitars!

But Sam - it’s odd that you keep going back to the theme of “making it,” whether that means being famous or making tons of money. Why would this board have that answer?!! I’d be shocked if any user on this board plays surf to get rich or famous. Kind of a strange goal for a user of this forum...

Daniel Deathtide

Last edited: Feb 07, 2019 13:10:11

Brian wrote:

Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:

Been so many music crazes and changes since Surf first emerged, yet is still around as many other older forms are still around in one way or another. It just seems to me there should have been more ground broken and new territory explored with it.

There are bands that have done that and are still doing that right now.

Not an exhaustive list:

Pollo del Mar
The Mermen
The Madeira
Daikaiju
Laika & The Cosmonauts
The Bambi Molesters
The TomorrowMen
The Hypnomen
The Necronomikids

Insect Surfers
The Mystery Men?

Surf has many tentacles and has also influenced mainstream bands.

The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

Oh Oh. Gary Hoey hasn't been brought up here in a long, long time. I'm beginning to think you don't really like surf music.