The roots of Miserlou. To whom may be interested. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouy7W3UcU7g

All our knowledge has its origins in our perceptions - Leonardo da Vinci

Last edited: Jul 18, 2013 12:31:07

Hi there neighbour! ;) Actually "Mısırlı" means "Egyptian" in Turkish language.

More is coming:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misirlou

All our knowledge has its origins in our perceptions - Leonardo da Vinci

Last edited: Jul 18, 2013 12:39:01

Interesting new claims regarding the history pre Patrinas, and some simplification of the American Greek evolution after that. No mention of the Yiddish developments. No mention of the Bollywood rip off, actually based on Dick Dale's version. Very popular with folk dancers. Not quite sure of the evolution there.

No expicit references to the claims (also completely undocumented) that the source might be a song called Bint Misr by Egyptian composer Sayed Darwish.

I'd love to see more on the claims relative to "This song was composed by an Egyptian Musician ,Mısırlı İbrahim Efendi who was originally a Jew named Abraham Levi living in İzmir.Against uncertain opinions,this song firstly was composed in Turkish with very very high probability or in Arabic.And the song was loved a lot in that time's İzmir and translated to Greek language."

Without some documentation this will get frustratingly lost in the nationalist fervors of the region. For example, are there recordings or publications that can be cited? Without things like that this is simply another broadside of assertions in the ongoing Misirlou wars. I hope it isn't!

This is fascinating, but the last word on Misirlou seems like it will be a long time coming sometimes!

I haven't included references to the other threads on this in this forum. Most of the points raised above are discussed there.

Last edited: Jul 18, 2013 13:02:55

Nacho, is the YouTube post yours? I beg your pardon that I don't know you well enough to know that already.

The song is definitely from the Mediterranean of the late (attested firmly to just post) Ottoman era. The title and Arabic inclusions alone suggest that the Greek version is an adaptation from an Arabic version, though they don't in themselves prove that. Nor would that say anything about versions in other languages as parallel or intermediate developments. Of course, the Greek word for Egyptian is a loan from Turkish (the -lu/li ending guarantees this) and the Turkish word is based on an Arabic original (Misr), while the word rebetiko applied the Smyrniot bands is a Greek formation based on Arabic rabaat 'inn' too as far as that goes. Not that these etymologies are any help in dating or attributing this paricular song. They do go to show the homogeneity and interconnectedness of the several cultural milieus, which is a complicated story thousands of years old. The Greek versions (Patrinos and Dimitriadis) trace to the city of Smyrna (Greek)/Izmir (Turkish) which I seem to recall was briefly in dispute between the Turks and Greeks in the period in question (just post WW I) though it is now firmly Turkish and was part of the Ottoman Empire as opposed to the newly independent Greek state before WW I. There was a good deal of the familiar ethnic cleansing going on in this period, as the multiethnic Ottoman Empire was sorted out into the more homogenous modern national states.

It would be fascinating to have examples of versions predating the two early Greek versions or even just good attested references to versions in other languages of the same approximate age. I suspect very early (c. 1910-40) examples once existed and could possibly still be found for Arabic, Turkish, Armenian, Albanian, and possibly others based on mutterings I've seen. Actual, concrete references to such these versions would be nice to have, not to mention things like dates and particulars of the lyrics and recording artists or possibly even actual recordings. My guess is that when people start looking at this seriously and cooperatively all kinds of things will turn up since commercial recording technology was available in the area from I think the 1890s at least. And there must be resources like newspapers, letters, sheet music, etc., that have not been seriously investigated by musicologists. But right now what we have is suspicions of such things existing, unsupported attestations that they once existed "a long time ago" and so on. All very nice, but too hypothetical or vague to be much use.

There seems to be a serious literature on Ottoman musicology and musical history, but I have only seem hints of it in the US, and a lot of what I have found on the Internet is more along the lines of nationalist shouting from all quarters with no details or references, just vague unsupported assertions phrased in intemperate language that makes you want to doubt it even when it seems logical. I don't even know if this literature would address popular music as opposed to the music of the Ottoman court, etc. I haven't even seen references to it. I don't even know what language it's in. I've just seen circumstantial essays appended to World Music recordings, sometimes with sources for the recordings.

Things like the notes appended to this YouTube posting are both fascinating and completely frustrating. They seem helpful because they give some specifics, but there are no dates, no references to the sources of the information, no discussion of the basis on which the assertions are made, etc. If it were just reported where the information came from it could be pursued and verified.

Along these lines I have found the claims for Sayed Darwish (Roman spellings vary) particularly frustrating and suspicious because he is in some ways fairly well known. But there are no catalogs I have been able to find of his compositions, and the alleged source song is not mentioned in any context that I have seen except Misirlou discussions. Because of that and because he has such a huge significance for Egyptian writers, such claims have to be taken with a grain of salt. Still, I keep hoping that something more specific in support of the claim will turn up.

It's not just Misirlou either. There seem to be some (?) very interesting Anatolian parallels to the old Spanish folk melody Zorongo that underlies Exotic, too. I forget the Turkish title at the moment, but I think it means "Grains of Barley and Wheat."

The trouble is that on the one hand few people take musicology seriously, or understand how to do historical research properly, while on the other historical documentation for the Balkans, Anatolia, and points south are difficult to come by in this country or online in anything but the most "interested" (as opposed to "interesting") forms.

Last edited: Jul 18, 2013 17:57:50

Greece and Turkey are sort of like Janus - two faces on one body. Many details are different, but so much is the same. Not just those two nations, of course, either! Of course when people(s) are so close and they're trying to divide the inheritance, the potential for quarrels is huge!

I am definitely interested in hearing more about the claims made in the description of the video you've pointed us at! Maybe some one can track something down using the names offered, at least if the reference is (a) real (and it does sound promising) and (b) it's on the Internet and not, say, in a local newspaper in Izmir or in a book only available in Turkey, etc. You are definitely in a much better position to track these last down if they apply, of course, and that's what's so great about the International character of this Forum in particular and Internet interest in instrumental pop generally!

I looked fairly recently for more on Darwish, but it's worth looking again for that, too. You never know when something might turn up. Unfortunately there I kind of suspect that somebody (a) misremembered the title of the song, and (b) did a little well intentioned, but creative guessing based on what they would have liked to believe. Plausibility is not the same thing as accuracy. I have a tendency to love my hypotheses a little too much myself ...

Nice stuff guys! Cool tunes and fun musings.

I agree that the lack of definitive information on Misirlou can be frustrating, but I actually kinda like the mystique that surrounds the song. The lack of origin story lends it extra mystery and gravity, and there's something to be said about a melody so strong that multiple nations want to claim it as their own.

Of course I'm biased, but even amongst all the countless versions out there I feel like Dick Dale's is truly something unique and special. He just really put the energy and power of that song over the top in a way nobody had (to my ear) before or since. Before 'Surfer's Choice' Misirlou by no means belonged to DD, but since its release his cut is (at least in the western world) immediately the most recognizable and definitive. Countless surf bands (and even plenty of non surf bands) have tried to emulate that recording, and nobody's even come close! It's pretty remarkable to have taken such a renowned and beloved song and given it such a personal and distinct mark.

Followers of this thread might be interested in this NPR broadcast: http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=5134530&m=5134586

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Here is a 1927 version of Misirlou.

Later,
Norm

Stumbled onto this version on YouTube.

Updated link to the NPR page, including rare and wonderful audio tracks.