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Hey y'all...
I have a question about surf tone. I'm pretty disappointed in my '63
Reissue reverb tank. I'm wondering if I've got my rig set up right in
order to make this thing really work for me. There's plenty of
reverb, but there is also this accompanying high-pitched harmonic
ring/whistle that I sure don't like. I get this even at low volumes.
My typical knob settings are Dwell/Mix/Tone all set around 7.
Rolling the tone back on the tank helps to kill the harmonic ring, but
it also kills the 'spank'/'spit'. My main surf guitar is a '97
American Fender Strat, with the standard single-coils. Rolling the
tone back on the Strat cuts the high twang and still doesn't help much
with reducing that annoying ring.
I think I could love this tank, if the high-pitched feed-backy ring
was somehow suppressed. It doesn't sound like feedback as much as it
sounds like... the reverb springs have caught some harmonic and that's
pushing through. Is this a typical attribute of the reissue? Are
there certain tubes that are susceptible to bringing out ugly
harmonics, and can I get some recommendations on good swap-outs? To
my knowledge (I bought the tank used, in excellent condition), it does
not have the re-cap mod. Are there recommendations on tubes to use
with this thing also?
What are other people running before the tank to thicken things up?
I'm going straight to the tank, then to my Fender amp, no shenanigans
in-between, but I have a variety of overdrives, preamps, compressors,
and fuzzes that I could stick in there if necessary to shape things a
little.
The tone I'm really looking to capture is the thickly reverbed sound
that the VaraTones get. Suggestions are welcome... plus, I'd love to
know what FX chains and setups everyone else is using...
Much thanks...
Well, your question is one that has been kicked around once or twice
around here . . . before answering, I'll state that whatever sounds
good to you is the way to go - there are many differing opinions
about mods to the RI tanks and the resulting sonic results ...
*getting off soapbox* . . . ok, here are my thoughts:
I think one of the most common (and easiest) "mods" is to replace
the stock tubes with NOS (new old stock)or even "used old stock"
tubes, including a substitution of a 6K6 for the 6V6 tube. If you
are hearing a harsh treble-y sound (it seems you are), you may want
to try substituting a 12AT7 for the 12AX7 tube; this has lower gain
and should quiet things up a bit. You can even try just replacing
the 12AX7 with a 12AT7 (NOS or not), and see if that solves your
problem . . .
If you want to do the cap mod, you can check my site out:
Your mileage may vary as to the effect of this (or any) mod . . .
I run a RI tank with the cap mod and "used old stock" tubes (6K6
substitution) set at 6-6-6; my chain is guitar - tank - amp. Pretty
simple, but it sounds good to me.
Hopefully, you can find the solution easily and inexpensively - good
luck!
-Dick
I think Dick Messick said it best. I would try a tube change first
before getting too worried. These things do tend to add a bit of
ice-pick edge to your tone, but I don't think you should be hearing
what you describe. I also run mine around 6-6-6. Good luck!
BN
There's a lot that can go wrong with tubes, especially the cheap
Chinese stuff. I wonder if you're hearing a tube start to go
microphonic and ring at a high frequency when excited by vibration or
even just by the signal itself. I've experienced this in several
pieces of tube equipment including my 1996 reissue reverb.
Everything cleared up when I replaced the factory tubes with new-old-
stock RCA tubes (12AT7 and 7025/12AX7A from the 1970's, and a JAN
6V6 "RCA Victor" from the early 50's). That setup has lasted for
hundreds of rehearsals and gigs without any problems at all, and I
haven't done any other modifications.
Try tapping lightly on the tubes, and if you hear a ringing sound
through the amp, that tube could be the culprit.
Tone setting at 7 sounds kinda high, too--- I usually run about 4.5;
anything much above 5 starts to get pretty bright (plus, it would
also emphasize any ringing coming off a bad tube).
There's my 2 cents,
Rob
Detonators
--- In , "red_thundr" <red_thundr@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hey y'all...
>
> I have a question about surf tone. I'm pretty disappointed in
my '63
> Reissue reverb tank. I'm wondering if I've got my rig set up right
in
> order to make this thing really work for me. There's plenty of
> reverb, but there is also this accompanying high-pitched harmonic
> ring/whistle that I sure don't like. I get this even at low
volumes.
> My typical knob settings are Dwell/Mix/Tone all set around 7.
> Rolling the tone back on the tank helps to kill the harmonic ring,
but
> it also kills the 'spank'/'spit'. My main surf guitar is a '97
> American Fender Strat, with the standard single-coils. Rolling the
> tone back on the Strat cuts the high twang and still doesn't help
much
> with reducing that annoying ring.
>
> I think I could love this tank, if the high-pitched feed-backy ring
> was somehow suppressed. It doesn't sound like feedback as much as
it
> sounds like... the reverb springs have caught some harmonic and
that's
> pushing through. Is this a typical attribute of the reissue? Are
> there certain tubes that are susceptible to bringing out ugly
> harmonics, and can I get some recommendations on good swap-outs? To
> my knowledge (I bought the tank used, in excellent condition), it
does
> not have the re-cap mod. Are there recommendations on tubes to use
> with this thing also?
>
> What are other people running before the tank to thicken things up?
> I'm going straight to the tank, then to my Fender amp, no
shenanigans
> in-between, but I have a variety of overdrives, preamps,
compressors,
> and fuzzes that I could stick in there if necessary to shape things
a
> little.
>
> The tone I'm really looking to capture is the thickly reverbed sound
> that the VaraTones get. Suggestions are welcome... plus, I'd love
to
> know what FX chains and setups everyone else is using...
>
> Much thanks...
If you go the tube route, try
Mike has a tube set that includes an RCA 6K6 plus I think a 5125 and a
7025 or something for '63 RI tanks.
It takes a little edge off and adds a little depth. But quite frankly
it's not a hugh difference. IMHO.
I've also heard of people putting sticky foam pads on the plate to
soften some of the ring. But I imagine they'd have to be strategically
placed. And I've never tried it myself.
Anyway, good luck.
-paul
--- In , "red_thundr" <red_thundr@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hey y'all...
>
> I have a question about surf tone. I'm pretty disappointed in my '63
> Reissue reverb tank. I'm wondering if I've got my rig set up right in
> order to make this thing really work for me. There's plenty of
> reverb, but there is also this accompanying high-pitched harmonic
> ring/whistle that I sure don't like. I get this even at low volumes.
> My typical knob settings are Dwell/Mix/Tone all set around 7.
> Rolling the tone back on the tank helps to kill the harmonic ring, but
> it also kills the 'spank'/'spit'. My main surf guitar is a '97
> American Fender Strat, with the standard single-coils. Rolling the
> tone back on the Strat cuts the high twang and still doesn't help much
> with reducing that annoying ring.
>
> I think I could love this tank, if the high-pitched feed-backy ring
> was somehow suppressed. It doesn't sound like feedback as much as it
> sounds like...
the reverb springs have caught some harmonic and that's
> pushing through. Is this a typical attribute of the reissue? Are
> there certain tubes that are susceptible to bringing out ugly
> harmonics, and can I get some recommendations on good swap-outs? To
> my knowledge (I bought the tank used, in excellent condition), it does
> not have the re-cap mod. Are there recommendations on tubes to use
> with this thing also?
>
> What are other people running before the tank to thicken things up?
> I'm going straight to the tank, then to my Fender amp, no shenanigans
> in-between, but I have a variety of overdrives, preamps, compressors,
> and fuzzes that I could stick in there if necessary to shape things a
> little.
>
> The tone I'm really looking to capture is the thickly reverbed sound
> that the VaraTones get. Suggestions are welcome... plus, I'd love to
> know what FX chains and setups everyone else is using...
>
> Much thanks...
OK,
I talked with Mike Kropotkin of KCA NOS Tubes & Amp Repair, and, while
he didn't make any promises, he did give a recommendation on
replacement NOS tubes for the '63 RI reverb:
> RCA 6K6GT
> Mullard CV4024 (12AT7)
> JAN GE 5751... lower gain tube to replace the 12AX7.
I hope this will smooth things out and warm up that RI. Now if I
could just pay off all my Xmas bills and buy these new tubes today!
Much thanks to all who responded.
I'm still curious what kind of gear everybody's running, i.e. guitars,
pickups, trems, amps, tubes, reverb units, & other outboard FX/mods!
J.
--- In , "obmosquito" <obmosquito@c...>
wrote:
>
> If you go the tube route, try
> Mike has a tube set that includes an RCA 6K6 plus I think a 5125
and a
> 7025 or something for '63 RI tanks.
>
> It takes a little edge off and adds a little depth. But quite
frankly
> it's not a hugh difference. IMHO.
>
> I've also heard of people putting sticky foam pads on the plate to
> soften some of the ring. But I imagine they'd have to be
strategically
> placed. And I've never tried it myself.
>
> Anyway, good luck.
>
> -paul
>
Okay, here's the gear I usually use:
Guitars: late 90's Mexi-Strat with Carvin AP-11 pickups and
roundwound .012's, or mid-90's MIJ Jazzmaster with Duncans and
roundwound .011's.
Pedals: usually two or three of the following:
Compressor: Boss CS-3 or MXR Dynacomp
Overdrive/Distortion: Boss Blues Driver or Ibanez Tube Screamer
Tremolo: Boss TR-2 tremolo
Delay/Echo: Boss DD-5 delay
Amp: Either a '65 Showman or '66 Bandmaster through a 2x12 Celestion
Vintage 30 cabinet, or a mid-90's 4x10 Fender "Super-Amp". (I still
need something like a Vibrolux for smaller gigs, though.)
And the reissue reverb tank. However, considering some of the
equipment listed above, I don't claim to make the classic 1962 "surf"
tone... more toward a rock & roll sound, I guess.
Rob Woolsey
Detonators
--- In , "red_thundr" <red_thundr@y...>
wrote:
>
> OK,
>
> I talked with Mike Kropotkin of KCA NOS Tubes & Amp Repair, and,
while
> he didn't make any promises, he did give a recommendation on
> replacement NOS tubes for the '63 RI reverb:
>
> > RCA 6K6GT
> > Mullard CV4024 (12AT7)
> > JAN GE 5751... lower gain tube to replace the 12AX7.
>
> I hope this will smooth things out and warm up that RI. Now if I
> could just pay off all my Xmas bills and buy these new tubes today!
>
> Much thanks to all who responded.
>
> I'm still curious what kind of gear everybody's running, i.e.
guitars,
> pickups, trems, amps, tubes, reverb units, & other outboard FX/mods!
>
> J.
>
> --- In , "obmosquito" <obmosquito@c...>
> wrote:
> >
> > If you go the tube route, try
> > Mike has a tube set that includes an RCA 6K6 plus I think a 5125
> and a
> > 7025 or something for '63 RI tanks.
> >
> > It takes a little edge off and adds a little depth. But quite
> frankly
> > it's not a hugh difference. IMHO.
> >
> > I've also heard of people putting sticky foam pads on the plate to
> > soften some of the ring. But I imagine they'd have to be
> strategically
> > placed. And I've never tried it myself.
> >
> > Anyway, good luck.
> >
> > -paul
> >
Back when I was playin' guitar the gear I was usin' was a Fender Mexi-strat (a
blue one and a white one) with .013 flats or when I was brave enough to fight
the skinny neck, a Ventures Mosrite grey market reissue from Japan with .011's
round. I started to use a Dano long horn with no 6th string and a nail at the
5th fret holding down a skinny 5th string. It wasn't too good for surf but made
a nice banjer. Amps were a mid 90's Super Amp (like Woolsey's, he and I own the
only two in existence) or a Twin II. Effects were the Fender RI tank
(unaltered), MXR Super Comp, MXR Phase 90, Sanner Fuzzrite, Dano Reel Echo. I
intend to try this stuff out again soon.
-Marty
--- In , "red_thundr" <red_thundr@y...>
wrote:
>
> ...I'm still curious what kind of gear everybody's running, i.e.
guitars,
> pickups, trems, amps, tubes, reverb units, & other outboard FX/mods!
>
> J.
>
> --- In , "obmosquito" <obmosquito@c...>
> wrote:
> >
> > If you go the tube route, try
> > Mike has a tube set that includes an RCA 6K6 plus I think a 5125
> and a
> > 7025 or something for '63 RI tanks.
> >
> > It takes a little edge off and adds a little depth. But quite
> frankly
> > it's not a hugh difference. IMHO.
> >
> > I've also heard of people putting sticky foam pads on the plate to
> > soften some of the ring. But I imagine they'd have to be
> strategically
> > placed. And I've never tried it myself.
> >
> > Anyway, good luck.
> >
> > -paul
> >
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ok,
Mike's a great guy to deal with (I got most of my tubes from him), but I
have to disagree with his reccomendation about the Mullard CV4024.
I tried it, and while it's a great tube, it wasn't bright enough in the
reverb unit. I think it was better in the onboard reverb in my TR.
I would suggest getting an RCA black plate 12AT7 instead.
Just my thoughts.
BTW - I had some feedback problems that wre solved by replacing the tubes to
a fresher set. All that high volume playing and kicking got to them, I
guess.
Good luck,
Ran
----- Original Message -----
From: "red_thundr" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 3:13 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Reverb angst...
>
>
> OK,
>
> I talked with Mike Kropotkin of KCA NOS Tubes & Amp Repair, and, while
> he didn't make any promises, he did give a recommendation on
> replacement NOS tubes for the '63 RI reverb:
>
> > RCA 6K6GT
> > Mullard CV4024 (12AT7)
> > JAN GE 5751... lower gain tube to replace the 12AX7.
>
> I hope this will smooth things out and warm up that RI. Now if I
> could just pay off all my Xmas bills and buy these new tubes today!
>
> Much thanks to all who responded.
>
> I'm still curious what kind of gear everybody's running, i.e. guitars,
> pickups, trems, amps, tubes, reverb units, & other outboard FX/mods!
>
> J.
>
> --- In , "obmosquito" <obmosquito@c...>
> wrote:
> >
> > If you go the tube route, try
> > Mike has a tube set that includes an RCA 6K6 plus I think a 5125
> and a
> > 7025 or something for '63 RI tanks.
> >
> > It takes a little edge off and adds a little depth. But quite
> frankly
> > it's not a hugh difference. IMHO.
> >
> > I've also heard of people putting sticky foam pads on the plate to
> > soften some of the ring. But I imagine they'd have to be
> strategically
> > placed. And I've never tried it myself.
> >
> > Anyway, good luck.
> >
> > -paul
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
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Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/04
> Much thanks to all who responded.
>
> I'm still curious what kind of gear everybody's running, i.e.
guitars,
> pickups, trems, amps, tubes, reverb units, & other outboard
FX/mods!
I'm using a CIJ Jag that I've upgraded with a mute, AV pickups, and
CTS pots. My amp of choice right now is a '65 Bandmaster, and my
tank is a '64. No outboard FX here, we are going for a more trad
sound. For strings I use nickel Pyramid flats 13s or Gibson
stainless flats.
Here it is -
I've always been curious what a "traditional" surf sound must have
been like back in the day. 99% of the surf recordings from that era
were regrettably primitive and lo-fi by today's standards. Though the
Ventures had the bucks to get probably the highest quality recordings,
they weren't surf purists, and only gave a tip of the hat to the real
surf tone.
What I do like about using a real Fender outboard reverb is the
'spank'/'splash' effect it gives; I have yet to hear a digital reverb
recreate that, "Holy Grail" or whatnot. My brand spankin' new
Cyber-Twin SE has the most dead-on emulation of the various Fender
reverbs, from Princeton and Twin and even the Brown Tolex '63, but
none of them have the backsplash sproing that you get with a real
outboard tank. What is nice is the sheer versatility and
adjustability, and, well, consistency. I sure hope that my '63 RI
tank will eventually give me the timbre I'm wanting for surf!
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> > Much thanks to all who responded.
> >
> > I'm still curious what kind of gear everybody's running, i.e.
> guitars,
> > pickups, trems, amps, tubes, reverb units, & other outboard
> FX/mods!
>
>
> I'm using a CIJ Jag that I've upgraded with a mute, AV pickups, and
> CTS pots. My amp of choice right now is a '65 Bandmaster, and my
> tank is a '64. No outboard FX here, we are going for a more trad
> sound. For strings I use nickel Pyramid flats 13s or Gibson
> stainless flats.
>
> Here it is -
A traditional surf sound ? How much of that has too come from the
fingers.WE have got an origonal sixties guy here in GR. that plays
like no one I've ever seen.He learned in the sixties and uses hi
origonal gear.I love to watch him play. Miller
--- In , "red_thundr" <red_thundr@y...>
wrote:
>
> I've always been curious what a "traditional" surf sound must have
> been like back in the day. 99% of the surf recordings from that era
> were regrettably primitive and lo-fi by today's standards. Though
the
> Ventures had the bucks to get probably the highest quality
recordings,
> they weren't surf purists, and only gave a tip of the hat to the
real
> surf tone.
>
> What I do like about using a real Fender outboard reverb is the
> 'spank'/'splash' effect it gives; I have yet to hear a digital
reverb
> recreate that, "Holy Grail" or whatnot. My brand spankin' new
> Cyber-Twin SE has the most dead-on emulation of the various Fender
> reverbs, from Princeton and Twin and even the Brown Tolex '63, but
> none of them have the backsplash sproing that you get with a real
> outboard tank. What is nice is the sheer versatility and
> adjustability, and, well, consistency. I sure hope that my '63 RI
> tank will eventually give me the timbre I'm wanting for surf!
>
> --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > Much thanks to all who responded.
> > >
> > > I'm still curious what kind of gear everybody's running, i.e.
> > guitars,
> > > pickups, trems, amps, tubes, reverb units, & other outboard
> > FX/mods!
> >
> >
> > I'm using a CIJ Jag that I've upgraded with a mute, AV pickups,
and
> > CTS pots. My amp of choice right now is a '65 Bandmaster, and my
> > tank is a '64. No outboard FX here, we are going for a more trad
> > sound. For strings I use nickel Pyramid flats 13s or Gibson
> > stainless flats.
> >
> > Here it is -
My take is that, for the most part, the traditional surf sound would
be far more raw and less refined than we expect today. Those players
who learned back then were unschooled, knew a handful of chords,
listened to pop, blues and exotica, and they used their boundless
energy to overcome their primitive technique. The equipment was hit
and miss (vintage guys don't want to hear that, but it's true). The
old amps of the era were finicky, varying in quality and tone, but who
cared because you could run down to the corner store and buy real
honest-to-goodness American made tubes on the cheap. Guitars of that
vintage were also prone to manufacturing "errors". For every sweet
Stratocaster or Mustang that had the pickups slightly overwound (not a
bad thing), there was another Strat out there with underwound pickups
(ugh). The vibrato systems were troublesome units that required
constant maintenance, and even then were hardly perfect. Strings were
not subjected to the science they are today, nor were the cables.
The rock 'n roll standard then was Chuck Berry; if you could play his
licks, you were really something. Nowadays, the standard is Steve
Vai, who not only has incredible technique, but is also a musical
encyclopedia.
I have a lot of respect for those surf music pioneers who were able to
transcend all these obstacles and still make some memorable music.
Having said that, I don't see a problem with using modern equipment
and techniques in order to take surf music to new places. Personally,
being pigeonholed into a style or sound has never been my thing. I'd
love to hear Al DiMeola do a surf song; I think those superfast, ultra
cleanly-picked Latin passages would be mind-blowing dripping with
reverb! And if Steve Vai or Eddie Van Halen ever did a surf song,
they'd probably reinvent the way we all thought of using the whammy bar.
--- In , "loscobrassurf"
<loscobrassurf@y...> wrote:
>
> A traditional surf sound ? How much of that has too come from the
> fingers.WE have got an origonal sixties guy here in GR. that plays
> like no one I've ever seen.He learned in the sixties and uses hi
> origonal gear.I love to watch him play. Miller
>
>
>
>
