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Ivan:
I read through your wonderful well-thought-out piece and I
must comment on one point you touched upon...
Back in 1960-1965, the "surf music" scene was un-self
conscious...those musicians had a "zen-like" simplicity and
purity to their approach to the music they created.
Basically, they were dorks and goobers who wanted to
impress their friends by getting on the radio or playing at
the High School dance on Friday night.
Remember, that period was before such blatant commercial
entities like the Monkeys, the Partridge Family, The Brady
Bunch and yes...even the Beatles. Way before MTV and Hot
Topic, but that's another story altogether.
Those surf-dudes (and dudettes such as Kathy Marshall)
really had what they heard on the radio, on records and
what they saw at their local High School dances to ionspire
their creativity. And, of course, they had old Dick Dale
at the Rendevous Ballroom...
Anyway, I guess the point you made about an idyllic moment
in history (1963) struck a chord in me...I simply wanted to
chime in and stress that, to me, real "surf music" is 90%
attitude and approach and charachter and only 10% equipment
and music knowledge (if even that much.)
Last year, I had the pleasure of watching a show by the
Tornadoes (you know, Pulp Fiction soundtrack and all
that..."Bustin' Surfboards")...You prpbably played with
them at the "Rendevous Reunion" right?...
Those guys are still together, living in Redlands
California (where they have always lived)...They have been
playing "real surf music" for over 40 years now... The show
was GREAT!...light-hearted...FUN! They can barely
play...total garage rock...they know what they know...and
what they know is how to have fun making their music. True
"surf music" attitude all the way...they were my heroes
that day!
Well I could go on and on...no sense flogging a dead horse.
keep up the cool commentary,
Dave P
PS: Does anyone know much about the group "The Nobles"?
I am attempting to preserve some "vintage grafitti" along a
a rural highway in San Diego County California...painted
on a boulder in big black letters "THE NOBLES"...looks like
vintage 60s grafitti...any leads out there?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
--- In , DP <noetical1@y...> wrote:
> Back in 1960-1965, the "surf music" scene was un-self
> conscious...those musicians had a "zen-like" simplicity and
> purity to their approach to the music they created.
> Basically, they were dorks and goobers who wanted to
> impress their friends by getting on the radio or playing at
> the High School dance on Friday night.
That's a great point! In fact, it made me think of something
relevant here. The early sixties bands had a very natural approach
to surf music, cause it was simply the music of the time. It was the
only thing they knew, right then and there. On the other hand, all
surf bands that slavishly try to recreate those sounds will
inevitably end up being contrived. It will not be pure in
inspiration and natural. In addition, we're talking about music that
was mostly made by 16-year-olds. How the hell are 22-year-olds with
college degrees, or in my case 35-year-olds with PhDs ever going to
recreate this? No freaking way!
To me, the surf sounds and riffs and licks are tools. I love those
tools! So, I use them to create my own little structures that I hope
are in some ways as cool as the structures that were built by the
originators of the tools. But they're still MY structures.
> Anyway, I guess the point you made about an idyllic moment
> in history (1963) struck a chord in me...I simply wanted to
> chime in and stress that, to me, real "surf music" is 90%
> attitude and approach and charachter and only 10% equipment
> and music knowledge (if even that much.)
Well, in a sense I agree, you've got to have the right attitude,
though what it is exactly is impossible to verbalize (can anybody do
it?). But, to me the gear is important. If you're playing a Jackson
through a high-gain Crate, you may have gobs of attitude and (by some
miracle) a cool rock'n'roll sound, but it's not surf music. I'm sure
there will be many differing opinions on this point.
> Last year, I had the pleasure of watching a show by the
> Tornadoes (you know, Pulp Fiction soundtrack and all
> that..."Bustin' Surfboards")...You prpbably played with
> them at the "Rendevous Reunion" right?...
Yes, we did.
> Those guys are still together, living in Redlands
> California (where they have always lived)...They have been
> playing "real surf music" for over 40 years now... The show
> was GREAT!...light-hearted...FUN! They can barely
> play...total garage rock...they know what they know...and
> what they know is how to have fun making their music. True
> "surf music" attitude all the way...they were my heroes
> that day!
I'm glad to hear that. They were, shall we say, less than inspiring
the day I saw them. But I thought the Chantays or the Belairs
weren't very inspiring that day either, cause their idea of pushing
surf music forward was adding shredding guitar, which may have merit
to some people reading this, but not to me. I'm too into trad stuff
for it.
> keep up the cool commentary,
Thanks Dave!
> PS: Does anyone know much about the group "The Nobles"?
> I am attempting to preserve some "vintage grafitti" along a
> a rural highway in San Diego County California...painted
> on a boulder in big black letters "THE NOBLES"...looks like
> vintage 60s grafitti...any leads out there?
Wow, really? A grafitti from the sixties of a surf band survives?
Amazing! Yes, the Nobles' great claim to fame is that they released
an album with Aki Aleong called Come Surf With Me. It was rereleased
on CD on the bootleg Surf label in the nineties, paired up with the
Deadly Ones. The Nobles were a decent surf band. Most of the tracks
were covers, but Earthquake by them pops up on some comps, I think.
I think the grafitti is definitely worth preserving if you can pull
it off!
Ivan
This is a good topic! I always enjoy Ivan's posts, they are
informative and very well thought out. my only critique would be if
Ivan could do like they do at Reverborama, and call everyone "fag"
more. ;-)
I think it's safe to say we all got into surf music the same
way, by hearing the first wave songs by the first wave bands. I
agree with Ivan that nothing will sound like they did then. We
are all just trying to do our version of that original sound.
I'd bet all of us started out on the same 5-10 songs, trying as
hard as we could to "sound like the record". For some of us, thats
enough, for others, they feel compelled to try to update the sound,
or the songs, or come up with their own ideas. One of my favorite
things about surf music is the confines in which a song can be
called surf music. For the most part, it's that original
traditional sound. It may have evolved over the years, as
everything does, but at the core is that reverb-driven sound.
Bills words may have been harsh, but he has a point. I have
also purchased new cd's thinking they would be good, only to find
they ultimately don't stand the test of time. I always go back to
the old stuff. Perhaps I'm trying to recapture the feeling the first
time I heard DD's Miserlou, or Pipeline. Newer stuff doesn't
inspire me like the classics.
Just because Bill doesn't buy every album that's released doesn't
make him less of a fan....
I hope someday to have enough inspiration to come up with my own
ideas , and leave my "mark" on the genre, but it that never
happens, at least I'll have once heard "you sound just like the
record"!
Chris
P.S. I think The Nobles also did the original version
of "Hiawatha" later covered by The Surfaris. It's really just a rip
off of the Hamms Beer song. "from the land of sky blue
water....water!"
--- In , DP <noetical1@y...> wrote:
> Ivan:
>
> I read through your wonderful well-thought-out piece and I
> must comment on one point you touched upon...
>
> Back in 1960-1965, the "surf music" scene was un-self
> conscious...those musicians had a "zen-like" simplicity and
> purity to their approach to the music they created.
> Basically, they were dorks and goobers who wanted to
> impress their friends by getting on the radio or playing at
> the High School dance on Friday night.
>
> Remember, that period was before such blatant commercial
> entities like the Monkeys, the Partridge Family, The Brady
> Bunch and yes...even the Beatles. Way before MTV and Hot
> Topic, but that's another story altogether.
>
> Those surf-dudes (and dudettes such as Kathy Marshall)
> really had what they heard on the radio, on records and
> what they saw at their local High School dances to ionspire
> their creativity. And, of course, they had old Dick Dale
> at the Rendevous Ballroom...
>
> Anyway, I guess the point you made about an idyllic moment
> in history (1963) struck a chord in me...I simply wanted to
> chime in and stress that, to me, real "surf music" is 90%
> attitude and approach and charachter and only 10% equipment
> and music knowledge (if even that much.)
>
> Last year, I had the pleasure of watching a show by the
> Tornadoes (you know, Pulp Fiction soundtrack and all
> that..."Bustin' Surfboards")...You prpbably played with
> them at the "Rendevous Reunion" right?...
>
> Those guys are still together, living in Redlands
> California (where they have always lived)...They have been
> playing "real surf music" for over 40 years now... The show
> was GREAT!...light-hearted...FUN! They can barely
> play...total garage rock...they know what they know...and
> what they know is how to have fun making their music. True
> "surf music" attitude all the way...they were my heroes
> that day!
>
> Well I could go on and on...no sense flogging a dead horse.
>
> keep up the cool commentary,
> Dave P
>
> PS: Does anyone know much about the group "The Nobles"?
> I am attempting to preserve some "vintage grafitti" along a
> a rural highway in San Diego County California...painted
> on a boulder in big black letters "THE NOBLES"...looks like
> vintage 60s grafitti...any leads out there?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
>
Great discussion guys.
I have to agree with DP and Ivan on a lot of stuff.
I've also wondered about the 1st wave guys, and what they think of us
"surf fanatics". I get the feeling that when they were kids they were
just putting their own spin on the instro music they loved at the time:
Duane Eddy, The Fireballs, The Ventures, Link Wray, etc. This was before
it was known as surf music. And then Dick Dale came along. When surf
music went out of fashion, a lot of those guys traded in their Jaguars
and moved on to something else, whether it was folk, British Invasion,
or 70's wank rock. I wonder if a lot of them (assuming they know we even
exist) think we are a bit oddly fixated on 1963.
On the other hand, bands like the Nebulas, The Space Cossacks, Satan's
Pilgrims, Jon & The Nightriders, Slacktone, Pollo Del Mar, The Treble
Spankers, and on and on, have put their own stamp on the framework
created by these 1st wave giants. And the genre has grown out of the
"old guys with Hawaiian shirts" stereotype and into something with a
spark and creative spirit all of it's own. I mean, as great as those 1st
wave classic songs are (and I love them to death), in my opinion alone,
the newer bands have really saved the genre from being a trivial pursuit
question.
But it takes all kinds of bands. If I ever get off my ass and start a
band, it'll probably be nothing but a 1st wave cover band initially.
Hopefully as I get my bearings on the guitar and songwriting I'll be
able to add something of my own. But if not, we still need bands that
just play covers for fun at parties and car shows (that is not a slam on
anyone, BTW....heck I would gladly play a car show.) I'm not sure if I
have a point here, but just acknowledging that bands exist on many
levels. Some just for fun, because hey let's face it, even if I can't
write my own songs, playing classic surf songs with a bunch of friends
for a bunch of friends is a hell of a lot of fun. And then their are
other bands that actually know what they are doing and have the chops,
skill, and attitude to expand the genre. It's good to reach for that
even if you can't quite make it for whatever reason.
Thanks,
BN
kahunatikiman wrote:
>This is a good topic! I always enjoy Ivan's posts, they are
>informative and very well thought out. my only critique would be if
>Ivan could do like they do at Reverborama, and call everyone "fag"
>more. ;-)
>
Ha-ha you are killing me Chris!!! :-)
Seriously, let's not do that.....
<still laughing my ass off>
BN
Chris, I agree with you here, Great post. My intial post does sound
harsher than the way it sounded in my head,(maybe this is why I was
banned for life from the FDP) but hell, I hate wasting 15 bucks on a
CD I dislike :) Ivan's posts are legendary and sometimes
disagreeing with him is like taking on the blitzkrieg.
This Trad vs. Prog idea stands up in other forms of music too, and I
think it's more acceptable for someone who loves Merle Haggard
country to hate Shanie Twain. Because this community is so small,
and basically on a personal level, one's dislike of an aspect of the
genre upsets others who don't.
Bill
--- In , "kahunatikiman" <chris@b...>
wrote:
>
> This is a good topic! I always enjoy Ivan's posts, they are
> informative and very well thought out. my only critique would be
if
> Ivan could do like they do at Reverborama, and call everyone "fag"
> more. ;-)
>
> I think it's safe to say we all got into surf music the same
> way, by hearing the first wave songs by the first wave bands. I
> agree with Ivan that nothing will sound like they did then. We
> are all just trying to do our version of that original sound.
>
> I'd bet all of us started out on the same 5-10 songs, trying
as
> hard as we could to "sound like the record". For some of us,
thats
> enough, for others, they feel compelled to try to update the
sound,
> or the songs, or come up with their own ideas. One of my favorite
> things about surf music is the confines in which a song can be
> called surf music. For the most part, it's that original
> traditional sound. It may have evolved over the years, as
> everything does, but at the core is that reverb-driven sound.
>
> Bills words may have been harsh, but he has a point. I have
> also purchased new cd's thinking they would be good, only to find
> they ultimately don't stand the test of time. I always go back to
> the old stuff. Perhaps I'm trying to recapture the feeling the
first
> time I heard DD's Miserlou, or Pipeline. Newer stuff doesn't
> inspire me like the classics.
>
> Just because Bill doesn't buy every album that's released
doesn't
> make him less of a fan....
>
> I hope someday to have enough inspiration to come up with my own
> ideas , and leave my "mark" on the genre, but it that never
> happens, at least I'll have once heard "you sound just like the
> record"!
>
> Chris
>
> P.S. I think The Nobles also did the original version
> of "Hiawatha" later covered by The Surfaris. It's really just a
rip
> off of the Hamms Beer song. "from the land of sky blue
> water....water!"
>
>
>
> --- In , DP <noetical1@y...> wrote:
> > Ivan:
> >
> > I read through your wonderful well-thought-out piece and I
> > must comment on one point you touched upon...
> >
> > Back in 1960-1965, the "surf music" scene was un-self
> > conscious...those musicians had a "zen-like" simplicity and
> > purity to their approach to the music they created.
> > Basically, they were dorks and goobers who wanted to
> > impress their friends by getting on the radio or playing at
> > the High School dance on Friday night.
> >
> > Remember, that period was before such blatant commercial
> > entities like the Monkeys, the Partridge Family, The Brady
> > Bunch and yes...even the Beatles. Way before MTV and Hot
> > Topic, but that's another story altogether.
> >
> > Those surf-dudes (and dudettes such as Kathy Marshall)
> > really had what they heard on the radio, on records and
> > what they saw at their local High School dances to ionspire
> > their creativity. And, of course, they had old Dick Dale
> > at the Rendevous Ballroom...
> >
> > Anyway, I guess the point you made about an idyllic moment
> > in history (1963) struck a chord in me...I simply wanted to
> > chime in and stress that, to me, real "surf music" is 90%
> > attitude and approach and charachter and only 10% equipment
> > and music knowledge (if even that much.)
> >
> > Last year, I had the pleasure of watching a show by the
> > Tornadoes (you know, Pulp Fiction soundtrack and all
> > that..."Bustin' Surfboards")...You prpbably played with
> > them at the "Rendevous Reunion" right?...
> >
> > Those guys are still together, living in Redlands
> > California (where they have always lived)...They have been
> > playing "real surf music" for over 40 years now... The show
> > was GREAT!...light-hearted...FUN! They can barely
> > play...total garage rock...they know what they know...and
> > what they know is how to have fun making their music. True
> > "surf music" attitude all the way...they were my heroes
> > that day!
> >
> > Well I could go on and on...no sense flogging a dead horse.
> >
> > keep up the cool commentary,
> > Dave P
> >
> > PS: Does anyone know much about the group "The Nobles"?
> > I am attempting to preserve some "vintage grafitti" along a
> > a rural highway in San Diego County California...painted
> > on a boulder in big black letters "THE NOBLES"...looks like
> > vintage 60s grafitti...any leads out there?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
> >
You were banned for life from the FDP?
I'm jealous that you can play Scratch! It sounds just like the
record!
Chris
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> Chris, I agree with you here, Great post. My intial post does
sound
> harsher than the way it sounded in my head,(maybe this is why I
was
> banned for life from the FDP) but hell, I hate wasting 15 bucks on
a
> CD I dislike :) Ivan's posts are legendary and sometimes
> disagreeing with him is like taking on the blitzkrieg.
>
> This Trad vs. Prog idea stands up in other forms of music too, and
I
> think it's more acceptable for someone who loves Merle Haggard
> country to hate Shanie Twain. Because this community is so small,
> and basically on a personal level, one's dislike of an aspect of
the
> genre upsets others who don't.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> --- In , "kahunatikiman" <chris@b...>
> wrote:
> >
> > This is a good topic! I always enjoy Ivan's posts, they are
> > informative and very well thought out. my only critique would
be
> if
> > Ivan could do like they do at Reverborama, and call
everyone "fag"
> > more. ;-)
> >
> > I think it's safe to say we all got into surf music the same
> > way, by hearing the first wave songs by the first wave bands.
I
> > agree with Ivan that nothing will sound like they did then.
We
> > are all just trying to do our version of that original sound.
> >
> > I'd bet all of us started out on the same 5-10 songs, trying
> as
> > hard as we could to "sound like the record". For some of us,
> thats
> > enough, for others, they feel compelled to try to update the
> sound,
> > or the songs, or come up with their own ideas. One of my
favorite
> > things about surf music is the confines in which a song can be
> > called surf music. For the most part, it's that original
> > traditional sound. It may have evolved over the years, as
> > everything does, but at the core is that reverb-driven sound.
> >
> > Bills words may have been harsh, but he has a point. I have
> > also purchased new cd's thinking they would be good, only to
find
> > they ultimately don't stand the test of time. I always go back
to
> > the old stuff. Perhaps I'm trying to recapture the feeling the
> first
> > time I heard DD's Miserlou, or Pipeline. Newer stuff doesn't
> > inspire me like the classics.
> >
> > Just because Bill doesn't buy every album that's released
> doesn't
> > make him less of a fan....
> >
> > I hope someday to have enough inspiration to come up with my own
> > ideas , and leave my "mark" on the genre, but it that never
> > happens, at least I'll have once heard "you sound just like the
> > record"!
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > P.S. I think The Nobles also did the original version
> > of "Hiawatha" later covered by The Surfaris. It's really just a
> rip
> > off of the Hamms Beer song. "from the land of sky blue
> > water....water!"
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , DP <noetical1@y...> wrote:
> > > Ivan:
> > >
> > > I read through your wonderful well-thought-out piece and I
> > > must comment on one point you touched upon...
> > >
> > > Back in 1960-1965, the "surf music" scene was un-self
> > > conscious...those musicians had a "zen-like" simplicity and
> > > purity to their approach to the music they created.
> > > Basically, they were dorks and goobers who wanted to
> > > impress their friends by getting on the radio or playing at
> > > the High School dance on Friday night.
> > >
> > > Remember, that period was before such blatant commercial
> > > entities like the Monkeys, the Partridge Family, The Brady
> > > Bunch and yes...even the Beatles. Way before MTV and Hot
> > > Topic, but that's another story altogether.
> > >
> > > Those surf-dudes (and dudettes such as Kathy Marshall)
> > > really had what they heard on the radio, on records and
> > > what they saw at their local High School dances to ionspire
> > > their creativity. And, of course, they had old Dick Dale
> > > at the Rendevous Ballroom...
> > >
> > > Anyway, I guess the point you made about an idyllic moment
> > > in history (1963) struck a chord in me...I simply wanted to
> > > chime in and stress that, to me, real "surf music" is 90%
> > > attitude and approach and charachter and only 10% equipment
> > > and music knowledge (if even that much.)
> > >
> > > Last year, I had the pleasure of watching a show by the
> > > Tornadoes (you know, Pulp Fiction soundtrack and all
> > > that..."Bustin' Surfboards")...You prpbably played with
> > > them at the "Rendevous Reunion" right?...
> > >
> > > Those guys are still together, living in Redlands
> > > California (where they have always lived)...They have been
> > > playing "real surf music" for over 40 years now... The show
> > > was GREAT!...light-hearted...FUN! They can barely
> > > play...total garage rock...they know what they know...and
> > > what they know is how to have fun making their music. True
> > > "surf music" attitude all the way...they were my heroes
> > > that day!
> > >
> > > Well I could go on and on...no sense flogging a dead horse.
> > >
> > > keep up the cool commentary,
> > > Dave P
> > >
> > > PS: Does anyone know much about the group "The Nobles"?
> > > I am attempting to preserve some "vintage grafitti" along a
> > > a rural highway in San Diego County California...painted
> > > on a boulder in big black letters "THE NOBLES"...looks like
> > > vintage 60s grafitti...any leads out there?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
> > >
Alan Taylor in Pipeline sometime back said something to the effect that no one
can or should cover "Wipe Out". His meaning was that the value of the original
was in the youthful wild abandon and purpose.
We've all since been exposed to Jimi Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen and no matter
how hard we try to suppress that experience, there's gonna be some spoiling of
innocence in our thoughts and technique. But it sure is fun trying to recapture
that old sound!
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: DP
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Ivan's cool commentary: "Trad vs. Prog"
Ivan:
I read through your wonderful well-thought-out piece and I
must comment on one point you touched upon...
Back in 1960-1965, the "surf music" scene was un-self
conscious...those musicians had a "zen-like" simplicity and
purity to their approach to the music they created.
Basically, they were dorks and goobers who wanted to
impress their friends by getting on the radio or playing at
the High School dance on Friday night.
Remember, that period was before such blatant commercial
entities like the Monkeys, the Partridge Family, The Brady
Bunch and yes...even the Beatles. Way before MTV and Hot
Topic, but that's another story altogether.
Those surf-dudes (and dudettes such as Kathy Marshall)
really had what they heard on the radio, on records and
what they saw at their local High School dances to ionspire
their creativity. And, of course, they had old Dick Dale
at the Rendevous Ballroom...
Anyway, I guess the point you made about an idyllic moment
in history (1963) struck a chord in me...I simply wanted to
chime in and stress that, to me, real "surf music" is 90%
attitude and approach and charachter and only 10% equipment
and music knowledge (if even that much.)
Last year, I had the pleasure of watching a show by the
Tornadoes (you know, Pulp Fiction soundtrack and all
that..."Bustin' Surfboards")...You prpbably played with
them at the "Rendevous Reunion" right?...
Those guys are still together, living in Redlands
California (where they have always lived)...They have been
playing "real surf music" for over 40 years now... The show
was GREAT!...light-hearted...FUN! They can barely
play...total garage rock...they know what they know...and
what they know is how to have fun making their music. True
"surf music" attitude all the way...they were my heroes
that day!
Well I could go on and on...no sense flogging a dead horse.
keep up the cool commentary,
Dave P
PS: Does anyone know much about the group "The Nobles"?
I am attempting to preserve some "vintage grafitti" along a
a rural highway in San Diego County California...painted
on a boulder in big black letters "THE NOBLES"...looks like
vintage 60s grafitti...any leads out there?
__________________________________
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--- In , "kahunatikiman" <chris@b...> wrote:
[...]
> Just because Bill doesn't buy every album that's released doesn't
> make him less of a fan....
>
> I hope someday to have enough inspiration to come up with my own
> ideas , and leave my "mark" on the genre, but it that never
> happens, at least I'll have once heard "you sound just like the
> record"!
>
> Chris
I think these are excellent points Chris, nice post. I don't think
Ivan was implying Bill wasn't a fan though. I would just encourage
everyone to check out the new stuff every once in a while; but yeah, I
don't like everything either, and that's ok. I don't talk about the
stuff I don't like, mainly because this is such a small community that
it's hard to be critical without sounding like a crank or offending
the band (because they are on the same list!). That's another topic
altogether! But I think most of us are adults here and can deal with
that. Right fags? (still laughing about that Chris...)
I tend to be on the trad side of the proverbial fence, but I also
really enjoyed the new Pollo Del Mar. A lot. And that surprised me!
The Hellbenders aren't exactly surf either, but I included them on my
best of list since they have that hard to quantify "twang" that I
think we can all appreciate on this list.
Keep the good discussion coming, and Happy New Year to all!
BN
Yeah, Bill....that is a great cover of Scratch! Nice job!
BN
--- In , "kahunatikiman" <chris@b...> wrote:
>
>
>
> You were banned for life from the FDP?
>
> I'm jealous that you can play Scratch! It sounds just like the
> record!
>
> Chris
>
Thanks, Brian! Hearing that is a big compliment for me, being such a
fan of Eddie's playing. I was looking through the database and saw
you're looking for musicians in Iowa. We just found a rhythm
guitarist who moved here from Iowa a few months ago. Maybe he has
some friends back home. I don't know exactly where he's from but he
said the town had a John Deere plant, or was the home town of John
Deere.
Bill
--- In , "Brian Neal" <brian@s...>
wrote:
>
> Yeah, Bill....that is a great cover of Scratch! Nice job!
> BN
>
> --- In , "kahunatikiman" <chris@b...>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > You were banned for life from the FDP?
> >
> > I'm jealous that you can play Scratch! It sounds just like the
> > record!
> >
> > Chris
> >
Hey Chris Thanks alot, again that's a huge compliment, but I still
think it could better. Yes, I was banned for life haha. I
mistakenly put up an add for my Jazzmaster which was on on ebay at
the time. I was comparing it to another and not trying to drum up a
sale. Commandant Greene told me if I wanted back in I'd have to
pay. Which rubbed me wrong, so I said something nasty and now he's
deleted all my posts. Kudos to Brian for running such a non
restrictive group here.
Man, I think I've set a record for posting responses today, I love
it when works slow.
--- In , "kahunatikiman" <chris@b...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> You were banned for life from the FDP?
>
> I'm jealous that you can play Scratch! It sounds just like the
> record!
>
> Chris
> --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Chris, I agree with you here, Great post. My intial post does
> sound
> > harsher than the way it sounded in my head,(maybe this is why I
> was
> > banned for life from the FDP) but hell, I hate wasting 15 bucks
on
> a
> > CD I dislike :) Ivan's posts are legendary and sometimes
> > disagreeing with him is like taking on the blitzkrieg.
> >
> > This Trad vs. Prog idea stands up in other forms of music too,
and
> I
> > think it's more acceptable for someone who loves Merle Haggard
> > country to hate Shanie Twain. Because this community is so
small,
> > and basically on a personal level, one's dislike of an aspect of
> the
> > genre upsets others who don't.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , "kahunatikiman"
<chris@b...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > This is a good topic! I always enjoy Ivan's posts, they are
> > > informative and very well thought out. my only critique would
> be
> > if
> > > Ivan could do like they do at Reverborama, and call
> everyone "fag"
> > > more. ;-)
> > >
> > > I think it's safe to say we all got into surf music the
same
> > > way, by hearing the first wave songs by the first wave
bands.
> I
> > > agree with Ivan that nothing will sound like they did then.
> We
> > > are all just trying to do our version of that original sound.
> > >
> > > I'd bet all of us started out on the same 5-10 songs,
trying
> > as
> > > hard as we could to "sound like the record". For some of us,
> > thats
> > > enough, for others, they feel compelled to try to update the
> > sound,
> > > or the songs, or come up with their own ideas. One of my
> favorite
> > > things about surf music is the confines in which a song can be
> > > called surf music. For the most part, it's that original
> > > traditional sound. It may have evolved over the years, as
> > > everything does, but at the core is that reverb-driven sound.
> > >
> > > Bills words may have been harsh, but he has a point. I
have
> > > also purchased new cd's thinking they would be good, only to
> find
> > > they ultimately don't stand the test of time. I always go
back
> to
> > > the old stuff. Perhaps I'm trying to recapture the feeling the
> > first
> > > time I heard DD's Miserlou, or Pipeline. Newer stuff doesn't
> > > inspire me like the classics.
> > >
> > > Just because Bill doesn't buy every album that's released
> > doesn't
> > > make him less of a fan....
> > >
> > > I hope someday to have enough inspiration to come up with my
own
> > > ideas , and leave my "mark" on the genre, but it that never
> > > happens, at least I'll have once heard "you sound just like
the
> > > record"!
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > P.S. I think The Nobles also did the original version
> > > of "Hiawatha" later covered by The Surfaris. It's really just
a
> > rip
> > > off of the Hamms Beer song. "from the land of sky blue
> > > water....water!"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , DP <noetical1@y...>
wrote:
> > > > Ivan:
> > > >
> > > > I read through your wonderful well-thought-out piece and I
> > > > must comment on one point you touched upon...
> > > >
> > > > Back in 1960-1965, the "surf music" scene was un-self
> > > > conscious...those musicians had a "zen-like" simplicity and
> > > > purity to their approach to the music they created.
> > > > Basically, they were dorks and goobers who wanted to
> > > > impress their friends by getting on the radio or playing at
> > > > the High School dance on Friday night.
> > > >
> > > > Remember, that period was before such blatant commercial
> > > > entities like the Monkeys, the Partridge Family, The Brady
> > > > Bunch and yes...even the Beatles. Way before MTV and Hot
> > > > Topic, but that's another story altogether.
> > > >
> > > > Those surf-dudes (and dudettes such as Kathy Marshall)
> > > > really had what they heard on the radio, on records and
> > > > what they saw at their local High School dances to ionspire
> > > > their creativity. And, of course, they had old Dick Dale
> > > > at the Rendevous Ballroom...
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I guess the point you made about an idyllic moment
> > > > in history (1963) struck a chord in me...I simply wanted to
> > > > chime in and stress that, to me, real "surf music" is 90%
> > > > attitude and approach and charachter and only 10% equipment
> > > > and music knowledge (if even that much.)
> > > >
> > > > Last year, I had the pleasure of watching a show by the
> > > > Tornadoes (you know, Pulp Fiction soundtrack and all
> > > > that..."Bustin' Surfboards")...You prpbably played with
> > > > them at the "Rendevous Reunion" right?...
> > > >
> > > > Those guys are still together, living in Redlands
> > > > California (where they have always lived)...They have been
> > > > playing "real surf music" for over 40 years now... The show
> > > > was GREAT!...light-hearted...FUN! They can barely
> > > > play...total garage rock...they know what they know...and
> > > > what they know is how to have fun making their music. True
> > > > "surf music" attitude all the way...they were my heroes
> > > > that day!
> > > >
> > > > Well I could go on and on...no sense flogging a dead horse.
> > > >
> > > > keep up the cool commentary,
> > > > Dave P
> > > >
> > > > PS: Does anyone know much about the group "The Nobles"?
> > > > I am attempting to preserve some "vintage grafitti" along a
> > > > a rural highway in San Diego County California...painted
> > > > on a boulder in big black letters "THE NOBLES"...looks like
> > > > vintage 60s grafitti...any leads out there?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
> > > >
Definitely some good commentary all around - I would only say that I got
into this music ass-backwards. Aside from enjoying the Pulp Fiction movie
and soundtrack, I got into this music by way of the newer stuff at the time,
and I got into that by way of rockabilly/garage bands like the Reverend
Horton Heat & Southern Culture on the Skids, The Cramps, The Mummies etc.
doing a college radio show in the early/mid 90s. Granted, half the time I
was severeley impaired, but my cohost (I give him 95% of the credit) and I
managed to play some of the cool music off the day - in addition to the
above mentioned artists, I vaguely remember playing the Phantom Surfers,
MOAM, Laika etc around '92/93/94. I think it was around 94/95 when I saw
MOAM open for SCOTS that I was really taken with the whole thing. So I had
built up a little collection of instro before I started getting into the
roots of it all. So basically, my enjoyment of the new stuff of the day got
me wondering about where it came from & then I worked my way backwards until
I found myself buying the green vinyl Swedish import 7" of "Underwater" by
The Frogmen.
Finks/Bomboras/Cads - I think the Finks album is pretty good, but nowhere
near what the Bomboras achieved 3-4 years later. However, I think it was a
logical progression that just happened to be documented on vinyl/disc. Like
so many bands today, they were young guys that got into surf (although
unlike alot of bands today, the covers they played were a little more
obscure), practiced their instruments, strived to get the sound & then
recorded what they knew how to play. Eventually (within a few short years),
they branched off into two really good bands that put out some really
quality stuff. So I view the Finks ablum as one small part of a bigger
history of those bands. Laika & The Cosmonauts, The Boss Martians & Satan's
Pilgrims followed a similar pattern, featuring some covers (some well known)
on their earlier works, but back in the early 90s, there weren't 40 or 50
bands recording Mr Moto and Squad Car, so it wasn't familiar cover
saturation at that point. Just like the original first wave bands, members
of these bands eventually evolved into playing other types of music. Yes,
the Finks CD is very cover heavy, but a short 4 years later they were
blowing my mind playing "War of the Satellites into Project Zero" as a five
piece band wearing skeleton suits with sombreros. Likewise with them, I
bought Organ Grinder first (Head Shrinkin was a couple of months from coming
out), bought the rest of their stuff & then found my way to the Finks &
eventually to The Crossfires (after doing some research because the original
artists werent credited). I think nowadays, alot of the bands are covering
the well-known original songs of the bands that influence them - the
Slacktones/Straitjackets, etc. which will certainly perpetuate the influence
of those songs - but unlike back in the day when many of the bands routinely
covered (and recorded) each others material (some having better success than
the composer), now you have copyrights to deal with, so if you want to
record and release "Calhoun Surf" on your own CD, make sure you give Daddy O
Grande the pesos he deserves (which for a 1000 CD run would equal about 896
pesos according to the exchange rate) Just be glad you don't have to pay
his ass in euros.
Another thing I noticed about the early 3rd wave bands is that unlike todays
bands, they only had the original stuff to draw from, so you have bands like
some mentioned above + ones like the Krontjong Devils pulling this real
obscuro stuff (or at the least beyond miserlou/walk don't run/pipeline
stuff) out of their arses - no hit or one or two hit wonders that they
either dug deep for or got on comps (Vulcan Records, etc). Bomboras and The
Space Cossacks doing "Third Star" - Cossacks giving new life to "The
Crusher" and "Bombora" - or at least introducing it to a new generation
Laika (and also the Apemen) doing Bahareeba back in the early 90s; MOAM
doing "Shockwave" and "Joker's Wild," etc. Like others mentioned as well -
you got guys like Deke and Untamed Youth playing "The Hearse" - back in the
mid 90s, there was certainly some due dligence going on in the research
department - really immersing themselves in the history of music and
learning some tunes. As kahunatikiman pointed out, many of the bands will
start out learning the same 5-10 songs, but in a few years, a few of those
same bands may be the ones putting out the next "Land of One Percenters"
ok that's all for now.
wait, I almost forgot......
If any of you east coast "fags" want to come out and see us not play
"Pipeline," we'll be doing our first ever New Year's Eve gig at our favorite
bowling alley/lounge venue - The Asbury Lanes in Asbury Park, NJ - a big to
do with a bunch of good bands including The Unidentified, Jimmy and the
Teasers and Sasquatch & the Sickabillies. More info @ the Nebulas site (as
well as some preliminary gigs already lined up for the California tour -
just for you west coast "fags")
that is all
tfj
www.thenebulas.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "kahunatikiman" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 7:34 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Ivan's cool commentary: "Trad vs. Prog"
>
>
> This is a good topic! I always enjoy Ivan's posts, they are
> informative and very well thought out. my only critique would be if
> Ivan could do like they do at Reverborama, and call everyone "fag"
> more. ;-)
>
> I think it's safe to say we all got into surf music the same
> way, by hearing the first wave songs by the first wave bands. I
> agree with Ivan that nothing will sound like they did then. We
> are all just trying to do our version of that original sound.
>
> I'd bet all of us started out on the same 5-10 songs, trying as
> hard as we could to "sound like the record". For some of us, thats
> enough, for others, they feel compelled to try to update the sound,
> or the songs, or come up with their own ideas. One of my favorite
> things about surf music is the confines in which a song can be
> called surf music. For the most part, it's that original
> traditional sound. It may have evolved over the years, as
> everything does, but at the core is that reverb-driven sound.
