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Sorry if this is off topic, but there is really nowhere else to ask.
My cousin and I noticed that most of the surf bands use the same
exact setup, Floor tom, Mid tom, snare, bassdrum, and four cymbals.
It seems that the snares are usually Ludwig and don't have a wood
shell, that they are all metal. Could someone describe the typical
setup? Are the cymbals a certain size and material?
One last thing, how is the "typical" surf beat played? For instance,
The Nebulas NEMATODE ().
Does anybody know where to get surf drum tabs?
Thanks!
I'm using a wood snare now, Gretsch, and I especially like the sound of the rim
shots. Yes, your rundown of the basic surf drum set is what it seems most are
using although I don't see that many Ludwigs in So Cal.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: avid
To:
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 8:37 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Surf drums
Sorry if this is off topic, but there is really nowhere else to ask.
My cousin and I noticed that most of the surf bands use the same
exact setup, Floor tom, Mid tom, snare, bassdrum, and four cymbals.
It seems that the snares are usually Ludwig and don't have a wood
shell, that they are all metal. Could someone describe the typical
setup? Are the cymbals a certain size and material?
One last thing, how is the "typical" surf beat played? For instance,
The Nebulas NEMATODE ().
Does anybody know where to get surf drum tabs?
Thanks!
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is totally on topic!!!! Perhaps TFJ or Dane can chime in. We
need more drummers on this list!
BN
--- In , "avid" <darkthing@c...> wrote:
>
> Sorry if this is off topic, but there is really nowhere else to
ask.
> My cousin and I noticed that most of the surf bands use the same
> exact setup, Floor tom, Mid tom, snare, bassdrum, and four cymbals.
> It seems that the snares are usually Ludwig and don't have a wood
> shell, that they are all metal. Could someone describe the typical
> setup? Are the cymbals a certain size and material?
> One last thing, how is the "typical" surf beat played? For
instance,
> The Nebulas NEMATODE
().
> Does anybody know where to get surf drum tabs?
> Thanks!
avid:
it seems that most "trad" drum kits follow the setup of
1940s and 1950s jazz kits. I have noticed most "trad"
drummers use a maple kit...Slingerland, Gretsch, Premier
all come to mind as "trad" makes. The more "experimental"
or "modern" drummers tend to gravitate towards Mapex and
Pearl and Ludwig...they are striving for that distinct
modern cutting and power tone.
In the olden days, most kits were "slapped together" sorts
of affairs. You know, hit the garage sales and pawn shops
and see what you could come up with. I mean, of course
Sandy Nelson and Mel Taylor of the Ventures had cool new
kits...most drummers just had something that they put
together in the garage.
Although I am a bassist and guitarist, I find that I prefer
the tone/sound of old Slingerland and Premier kits.
Zildjian cymbals always sound great, and a old-fashioned
"sizzled" or "riveted" ride cymbal works well in the surf
setting. The chime-sound of the bell of the ride is
crucial to decent surf.
Most good / great surf drumming is based on good jazz
technique: namely good cymbal work, "doubled" snarebeats,
subtle rimshots and consistent bass drum rhythm. Tom-tom
fills and rolls are secondary...the main pulse is produced
through tight snare, bass, ride/hi-hat coordination.
Truthfully, unless you are playing "Wipeout", toms are
really a luxury...most "trad surf" really doesn't even need
tom-toms. That would explain the simple mid-tom / floor
tom setup.
Maybe Dave Wronski of Slacktone could hook us up with more
in-depth opinion and insight?... Especially, since he works
with one of the best "surf" drummers that has ever lived!
Of course I mean the incredible Dusty Watson of Slacktone,
Agent Orange and Dick Dale...
good luck on your quest, grasshopper...
dp
--- avid <> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry if this is off topic, but there is really nowhere
> else to ask.
> My cousin and I noticed that most of the surf bands use
> the same
> exact setup, Floor tom, Mid tom, snare, bassdrum, and
> four cymbals.
> It seems that the snares are usually Ludwig and don't
> have a wood
> shell, that they are all metal. Could someone describe
> the typical
> setup? Are the cymbals a certain size and material?
> One last thing, how is the "typical" surf beat played?
> For instance,
> The Nebulas NEMATODE
> ().
> Does anybody know where to get surf drum tabs?
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
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Avid -
I think many surf drummers use that setup because you really don't need any more
than the items you listed, plus its easy to mic (either in the studio or live).
If you're like me and have seen what Dusty or Jimmy Lester can do on a 4-piece
set with 2 or 3 cymbals, then certainly adding another tom or a few more
cymbals isn't going make a better player out of anyone. If one really wants
to go after the vintage look and sound, one might get their hands on a vintage
era kit, which generally have smaller sizes than a rock kit from the 70s/80s or
90s, plus they're a hell of a lot lighter and easier to schlep around. Today's
drums are actually made alot better than they were 40 years ago (some of the
older ones may not be as round), but there's something to be said for that old
sound that newer kits can't produce.
As far as snare drums, that's personal preference, but generally speaking, metal
snares are less expensive and more widespread than wooden ones, and there are
probably more Ludwig drums out there than the other brands - mostly because
they've been making them forever, whereas some of the other brands (Slingerland,
Rogers, etc) have experienced either sporadic production (Slingerland) or ceased
to exist altogether (Rogers) since the early 80s. The sound is all up to the
player - I tend to use a metal snare (either a 1966 aluminum Ludwig or a late
60s/early 70s steel Slingerland) 95% of the time because I like the extra ring
that the metal shell produces - cuts through all the noise the other guys are
making - especially in a live, unmiked situation. I do have a couple wood
snares (including an old Gretsch) that I pull out once in a great while - and as
Marty pointed out - they do make a nice rimshot, probably 'cause of the die cast
rim, which they are famous for.
For cymbals, again personal preference as far as brand & size. Some older ones
are nice, but inconsistent in sound and reliability. Best to try and play them
at the store before you buy them if you can - I know the Zildjian website
actually has little MP3s of what each model sounds like if that's any help. It
also depends on the music you're playing and in what environment (big places,
little places, miked or unmiked, etc). For a ride cymbal, I like them with a
little bit of wash/ring, so I can crash on it as I see fit, but still keep
riding on it. For crash cymbals, I like something in the medium size range
(15"-16") so it doesn't keep ringing forever. Bigger (and thicker cymbals) tend
to make more nice and are tougher to control - in small rooms and the studio)
Hihats? Who cares about hihats? Its friggin surf, although I think they need to
make a nice "chick" sound when played with the foot. If and when played half
open, I find they are usually very loud and can easily drown out other
instruments and occasionally wind up being too loud in a recording environment -
even when they aren't miked (which they should never be in the studio anyway).
I've never heard of surf drum tabs - I wouldn't think there would be much of a
market for them since there are no chords involved, but playing a surf drum beat
is not that hard. If you keep listening to, and playng along with, enough surf
(maybe with some moderate tempo, less involved drumming) you should pick it up
fairly quickly. Speed will develop naturally over time with practice and Duvel!
tfj
----- Original Message -----
From: avid
To:
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 11:37 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Surf drums
Sorry if this is off topic, but there is really nowhere else to ask.
My cousin and I noticed that most of the surf bands use the same
exact setup, Floor tom, Mid tom, snare, bassdrum, and four cymbals.
It seems that the snares are usually Ludwig and don't have a wood
shell, that they are all metal. Could someone describe the typical
setup? Are the cymbals a certain size and material?
One last thing, how is the "typical" surf beat played? For instance,
The Nebulas NEMATODE ().
Does anybody know where to get surf drum tabs?
Thanks!
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes Too Fast,
Drums are the odd case where the modern instruments are much better in quality
than the older versions. The newer kits don't get the old sound, but the old
sound wasn't that great, IMHO. There's also been big improvements in head
design. I do think the wood snare is a nice sound though.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: TFJ
To:
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Surf drums
Avid -
... Today's drums are actually made alot better than they were 40 years ago
(some of the older ones may not be as round), but there's something to be said
for that old sound that newer kits can't produce...
tfj
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Avid, I think you have gotten some great responses already but as a
surf drummer and reader of this site I so rarely get a chance to
chime in so I will. Keep it simple. I have a number of vintage sets
(Ludwig, Rogers, Slingerland, Gretsch and Premier- all 60's)and they
are probably not as good as what is being produced today, especially
when it comes to hardware (stands, pedals, etc.), but they make up
for it in cool factor. The old single braced hardware is really
light, folds up small and nice to transport however. Usually bass is
20 or 22". Mounted toms are 8x12 or 9x13 and not the deeper "power
toms" that are found on modern sets. I have some sets with single
mounted and others with double- no big deal either way. Floor toms
usually 16x16. 14x14 are cool but command premium prices if vintage.
I played back in the 60's and you pretty much had a choice of Remo
Ambassador coated heads or Remo Ambassador coated heads. That is
also what I usually still use today. Again in the 60's you usually
had a choice of Zildjian A's or Zildjian A's. Guess what I use
today. I am very old school when it comes to gear. There are plenty
around but sound does vary and beware of cracks or keyholes. You are
pretty safe with a 20" medium ride, a 16" crash and a pair of 14"
hats. Metal snares usually have better "crack" and as mentioned are
more affordable then "matching" wood snares (Lugwig jazz festival,
etc). Look for at least an 8 lug and not a 6 lug student snare. For
some typical Surf beats go to:
Thanks to all you guitarists for letting us share your space.
Jesse (drummer in the Aquasonics)
--- In , "avid" <darkthing@c...> wrote:
>
> Sorry if this is off topic, but there is really nowhere else to
ask.
> My cousin and I noticed that most of the surf bands use the same
> exact setup, Floor tom, Mid tom, snare, bassdrum, and four cymbals.
> It seems that the snares are usually Ludwig and don't have a wood
> shell, that they are all metal. Could someone describe the typical
> setup? Are the cymbals a certain size and material?
> One last thing, how is the "typical" surf beat played? For
instance,
> The Nebulas NEMATODE
().
> Does anybody know where to get surf drum tabs?
> Thanks!
What about Whitehall kits.My guy uses his original high school
whitehall kit. Miller
--- In , "coloradowoodie" <jesse@f...>
wrote:
>
> Avid, I think you have gotten some great responses already but as a
> surf drummer and reader of this site I so rarely get a chance to
> chime in so I will. Keep it simple. I have a number of vintage sets
> (Ludwig, Rogers, Slingerland, Gretsch and Premier- all 60's)and
they
> are probably not as good as what is being produced today,
especially
> when it comes to hardware (stands, pedals, etc.), but they make up
> for it in cool factor. The old single braced hardware is really
> light, folds up small and nice to transport however. Usually bass
is
> 20 or 22". Mounted toms are 8x12 or 9x13 and not the deeper "power
> toms" that are found on modern sets. I have some sets with single
> mounted and others with double- no big deal either way. Floor toms
> usually 16x16. 14x14 are cool but command premium prices if
vintage.
> I played back in the 60's and you pretty much had a choice of Remo
> Ambassador coated heads or Remo Ambassador coated heads. That is
> also what I usually still use today. Again in the 60's you usually
> had a choice of Zildjian A's or Zildjian A's. Guess what I use
> today. I am very old school when it comes to gear. There are
plenty
> around but sound does vary and beware of cracks or keyholes. You
are
> pretty safe with a 20" medium ride, a 16" crash and a pair of 14"
> hats. Metal snares usually have better "crack" and as mentioned are
> more affordable then "matching" wood snares (Lugwig jazz festival,
> etc). Look for at least an 8 lug and not a 6 lug student snare. For
> some typical Surf beats go to:
>
> Thanks to all you guitarists for letting us share your space.
> Jesse (drummer in the Aquasonics)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In , "avid" <darkthing@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry if this is off topic, but there is really nowhere else to
> ask.
> > My cousin and I noticed that most of the surf bands use the same
> > exact setup, Floor tom, Mid tom, snare, bassdrum, and four
cymbals.
> > It seems that the snares are usually Ludwig and don't have a wood
> > shell, that they are all metal. Could someone describe the
typical
> > setup? Are the cymbals a certain size and material?
> > One last thing, how is the "typical" surf beat played? For
> instance,
> > The Nebulas NEMATODE
> ().
> > Does anybody know where to get surf drum tabs?
> > Thanks!
--- In , "loscobrassurf"
<loscobrassurf@y...> wrote:
>
> What about Whitehall kits.My guy uses his original high school
> whitehall kit. Miller
Whitehall drums were student level drums many moons ago. A lot of the
"budget" entry drums in the 60s and early 70s used the same shells
that were used on pro line drums.
I think Jim from the Nebulas pretty much summed it up. I play a
mid-60s Rogers kit and, while the hardware back then isn't as solid as
it is now, there's a sound and vibe that you just can't get with a new
set. For surf, there isn't much reason to use a huge set, although
Mel Taylor used a lot of toms in his later years.
Shawn Martin
Cingular Wireless is expected to cut 6,800 jobs after it's merger.
"Can you hear me now? Good... You're fired!"
Life is short. Play for the music. Wear your heart on your sleeve.
Wow, thank you everyone for the excellent information, you have been
extremely helpful! :-)
--- In , "avid" <darkthing@c...> wrote:
>
> Wow, thank you everyone for the excellent information, you have
been
> extremely helpful! :-)
Avid,
You have all the advice you need to get the right surf setup. I
agree with all that has been said and only have one point to add.
Ivan was quick to notice that my mid 90's Yamaha recording customs
are not at all "vintage." They are about as modern as you can get
along with my polished Sabian AAX cymbals. I do alternate between
aluminum Ludwig and wood Yamaha snares
I came from a background of playing contemporary Christian rock
and community theater. I chose a setup that was professional grade
and very versatile. I love playing surf with The Madeira and Euro
Instro with The Troubadours. Unfortunately I don't have a luxury
like changing guitars mid-set in order to match the perfect tone for
the song. So I chose a great all around kit that would suit any
situation. Ivan will tell you that I have become better at
arranging the drums in a more trad fashion. (The first Troubadours
gig, you couldn't see me behind a wall of birch and chrome)
Getting to the point...choose the drums that you will love to play
and love to be heard playing regardless of what style music. Focus
on becoming a solid drummer and not just a surf beat expert. If you
play well, nobody will notice what you are playing on.
I only hope this doesn't get me kicked off a message board filled
with gear heads.
Dane
