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Hello List! Longtime lurker.
I'm Brain, I play in NJ surf/garage band the Brimstones. We have a big
show this coming Monday (Cramps at Irving Plaza) and in anticipation
of that and future recordings I "upgraded" from my Premeir Tank to a
Fender RI. While I was waiting for it, I was using a friends RI and it
seemed that I was suffering from muddy sound when i turned the tank
off and used my Vox ValveTone pedal.
When I finally got mine, it was broken (tangled springs and a tube
needed replacing...?). I got it fixed under warranty since I got it
"new". After testing mine out it seemed it suffered from the same
muddy tone. A few experimentations led to finding out (as many of you
know) it was the Mixer.
At the moment I'm left with turning the mixer down when we do garage
stuff and I already got two foot switches to turn on and off. I'm okay
doing this on Monday, but not for all shows afterwards. I thought of
getting an A/B box and splitting it into two channels but this seems
like so much more work to set up, break down and to trip over. Chaos
theory rears it's head quite a bit around our equipment and the less
things that can fail the better.
So my question is: is there anything I can do to get rid of this so
that "bypass" is true "bypass"? The signal path is currently Hagstrom
III > ValveTone > Tank > '68 Twin. I would prefer to not mod the RI as
I've already needed the warrety and who knows when I'll need it
again....but I got a real good tech who does real good work, so if I
gotta, I gotta.
I figure if anybody will know, it's this list!
Thanks!
Brain
p.s. I've searched the archive and just came up with people who have
the same problem.
Hi Brain,
why not play garage with some reverb as well?
Could be a good sound I imagine.
KK
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turn it down or a/b is there another choice ? miller
--- In , "Brain Brimstone" <Brain@b...>
wrote:
>
> Hello List! Longtime lurker.
>
> I'm Brain, I play in NJ surf/garage band the Brimstones. We have a
big
> show this coming Monday (Cramps at Irving Plaza) and in anticipation
> of that and future recordings I "upgraded" from my Premeir Tank to a
> Fender RI. While I was waiting for it, I was using a friends RI and
it
> seemed that I was suffering from muddy sound when i turned the tank
> off and used my Vox ValveTone pedal.
>
> When I finally got mine, it was broken (tangled springs and a tube
> needed replacing...?). I got it fixed under warranty since I got it
> "new". After testing mine out it seemed it suffered from the same
> muddy tone. A few experimentations led to finding out (as many of
you
> know) it was the Mixer.
>
> At the moment I'm left with turning the mixer down when we do garage
> stuff and I already got two foot switches to turn on and off. I'm
okay
> doing this on Monday, but not for all shows afterwards. I thought of
> getting an A/B box and splitting it into two channels but this seems
> like so much more work to set up, break down and to trip over. Chaos
> theory rears it's head quite a bit around our equipment and the less
> things that can fail the better.
>
> So my question is: is there anything I can do to get rid of this so
> that "bypass" is true "bypass"? The signal path is currently
Hagstrom
> III > ValveTone > Tank > '68 Twin. I would prefer to not mod the RI
as
> I've already needed the warrety and who knows when I'll need it
> again....but I got a real good tech who does real good work, so if I
> gotta, I gotta.
>
> I figure if anybody will know, it's this list!
>
> Thanks!
> Brain
>
> p.s. I've searched the archive and just came up with people who have
> the same problem.
Hey Brain,
This doesn't pertain to your question, but I just
wanna chime in and say I love The Brimstones and am
sick that I won't get to see you guys open for The
Cramps. I saw The Gore Gore Girls open for The Cramps
here two years ago and it was great.
Just out of curiosity, why did you ditch the Premier
for The Fender RI tank? Was there a problem with it?
Richard
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I'm responding to all the responses at once. I'm kinda in a hurry so I don't
have time to
collect them all. Thanks to everybody who responded though!
Richard, thanks a lot...I didn't ditch the Premier, more like set it aside as
backup.I just
couldn't get that sproingy drippy sound i wanted. So with the borrowed stand in,
I've gone
from one to three tanks.
I can turn it down but that gets to be a pain if I have to switch off the tank,
switch on the
vox, turn down the amp...It's just another thing to watch out for between songs
when you're
really exhausted from jumping around.
Also, it doesn't sound good with the vox and the 'verb. Too noisy. And an A/B
switch is
possible, but the inputs on my Twin (modded) all sound different, so I'd have to
get that
fixed and then set up the A/B switch....although that does sound like the best
idea so far.
Richard said:
>
>
> Hey Brain,
>
> This doesn't pertain to your question, but I just
> wanna chime in and say I love The Brimstones and am
> sick that I won't get to see you guys open for The
> Cramps. I saw The Gore Gore Girls open for The Cramps
> here two years ago and it was great.
>
> Just out of curiosity, why did you ditch the Premier
> for The Fender RI tank? Was there a problem with it?
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
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> polls, etc.
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I need to hear more about your amp mod, Brian. Is it really that each of the
four inputs on your Twin is assigned to different channels? Normally each pair
of inputs is assigned to different channels and if you plug two lines in to the
same pair of inputs, they balance out.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Brain Brimstone
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Fender RI Mixer kills treble
...Also, it doesn't sound good with the vox and the 'verb. Too noisy. And an
A/B switch is
possible, but the inputs on my Twin (modded) all sound different, so I'd have
to get that
fixed and then set up the A/B switch....although that does sound like the best
idea so far.
Richard said:
>
>
> Hey Brain,
>
> This doesn't pertain to your question, but I just
> wanna chime in and say I love The Brimstones and am
> sick that I won't get to see you guys open for The
> Cramps. I saw The Gore Gore Girls open for The Cramps
> here two years ago and it was great.
>
> Just out of curiosity, why did you ditch the Premier
> for The Fender RI tank? Was there a problem with it?
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files,
> polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'd rather use a true bypass box then an a/b splitter since an open
channel on your amp - which you would be left with - causes hum.
against this option goes the fact that the reverbunit changes your
overall sound even without the reverb on, and thus, when true
bypassing the unit, you might not have enough input, or have to
change eq settings.
as for 'other choices', you could relais(sic?)switch for double mixer
pots and thus switch between two settings. I'm sure it could be done
with electronical pots but I know nothing about 'em. i toyed with the
idea of building a double double mixer pot but gave up on it for
obvious reasons.
and then there's the 'Neil Young Whizzer solution' .... build a small
box with electro motors and mechanical "grippers" and digital
programming, that goes over your reverbunit, and mechanically turns
the knobs on hitting a footswitch buttons. happy soldering!
--- In , "loscobrassurf"
<loscobrassurf@y...> wrote:
>
>
> turn it down or a/b is there another choice ? miller
>
>
>
> --- In , "Brain Brimstone"
<Brain@b...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello List! Longtime lurker.
> >
> > I'm Brain, I play in NJ surf/garage band the Brimstones. We have
a
> big
> > show this coming Monday (Cramps at Irving Plaza) and in
anticipation
> > of that and future recordings I "upgraded" from my Premeir Tank
to a
> > Fender RI. While I was waiting for it, I was using a friends RI
and
> it
> > seemed that I was suffering from muddy sound when i turned the
tank
> > off and used my Vox ValveTone pedal.
> >
> > When I finally got mine, it was broken (tangled springs and a tube
> > needed replacing...?). I got it fixed under warranty since I got
it
> > "new". After testing mine out it seemed it suffered from the same
> > muddy tone. A few experimentations led to finding out (as many of
> you
> > know) it was the Mixer.
> >
> > At the moment I'm left with turning the mixer down when we do
garage
> > stuff and I already got two foot switches to turn on and off. I'm
> okay
> > doing this on Monday, but not for all shows afterwards. I thought
of
> > getting an A/B box and splitting it into two channels but this
seems
> > like so much more work to set up, break down and to trip over.
Chaos
> > theory rears it's head quite a bit around our equipment and the
less
> > things that can fail the better.
> >
> > So my question is: is there anything I can do to get rid of this
so
> > that "bypass" is true "bypass"? The signal path is currently
> Hagstrom
> > III > ValveTone > Tank > '68 Twin. I would prefer to not mod the
RI
> as
> > I've already needed the warrety and who knows when I'll need it
> > again....but I got a real good tech who does real good work, so
if I
> > gotta, I gotta.
> >
> > I figure if anybody will know, it's this list!
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Brain
> >
> > p.s. I've searched the archive and just came up with people who
have
> > the same problem.
Marty, here's the mod story (also the rest of you might get a kick out of this)
Years ago, before I found a tank and I only had my Twin ('68-9 or so), I knew I
needed more
reverb to play surf. I talked to my tech - Dennis Kager at Central Jersey Music
Service -
and he thought about it and suggested this:
We take the signal coming out of the reverb tank and plug it into the
non-vibrato channel,
where it gets amplified/tonaly controlled, then it goes back into where the
reverb signal
usually goes and the mix gets controlled via the reverb knob on the vibrato
channel that I
use. This mod gets switched on via the bright switch on the clean channel.
Bright On = Mod On.
Bright Off = both channels work as normal.
I used this for a couple of years. It doesn't sound anything like a tank...in
fact it's
practically overdriven, a real nasty, brassy sound, that at the time really fit
my playing.
Eventually the noise got to be too much and I found the Premier.
Last time I took the Twin in, Dennis mentioned that the reverb tank in the amp
was shot and
did I want to replace it? I said no because I was a little short on funds and
figured it
didn't matter anyway. While messing around with sounds with the new RI, I
noticed that even
though the tank in the Twin didn't work, it was still (of course) routing the
signal, so the
EQ on the clean channel and the reverb knob were actually adding another element
to my sound.
This would explain how things would sound different all the time, knobs I didn't
think were
affecting me were, and would potentially change whenever we moved the amp
around.
Awhile ago, I noticed that one of my inputs on my vibrato channel sticks out and
the other is
flush. When troubleshooting for what turned out to be the mixer knob, I tried
both inputs, the
flush one that I normally don't use sounded much deader than the other.
So this means to do an A/B, I have to take the amp in to get that fixed, then I
can plug A
into input 1 and B into input 2. Another option is to remove the mod so I can
turn the Clean
Bright on. And then plug A into Clean and B into Vibrato and EQ the sounds
differently...which
sounds like I'll be there for hours tweaking my sound!
So, either idea is good and probably what I'll do in the long run, however,
neither one is
something I could have for the Cramps show....unless I A/B Clean/Vibrato, and
crank the treble
on the clean to make up for the lack of bright. Sorry, just thinking out loud
here.
Brain
Oh! A bit more on Dennis. If you live ANYWHERE near Edison, NJ USE. THIS. GUY!
He has been
INCREDIBLY dependable for years. I had heard he was legendary but I assumed that
was among
people I knew. Googling him bring up that he: worked at the Ampeg factory
(possibly designing
them, can't seem to find out) until he left in 1967 to make Sundown amps which
I'd never heard
of before, but all reports rave about them, later he designed an amp for Pignose
and something
called a Reverend Hellhound. Also, when we bring our Farfisa in there, he says
"oh i'll need a
something..." then pulls out a DRAWER full of them. A drawer full of Farfisa
parts, need I say
more.
Whew. Done.
Marty Tippens said:
>
> I need to hear more about your amp mod, Brian. Is it really that each of the
four inputs on
> your Twin is assigned to different channels? Normally each pair of inputs is
assigned to
> different channels and if you plug two lines in to the same pair of inputs,
they balance out.
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brain Brimstone
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Fender RI Mixer kills treble
>
>
> ...Also, it doesn't sound good with the vox and the 'verb. Too noisy. And an
A/B switch is
> possible, but the inputs on my Twin (modded) all sound different, so I'd
have to get that
> fixed and then set up the A/B switch....although that does sound like the
best idea so far.
>
>
> Richard said:
> >
> >
> > Hey Brain,
> >
> > This doesn't pertain to your question, but I just
> > wanna chime in and say I love The Brimstones and am
> > sick that I won't get to see you guys open for The
> > Cramps. I saw The Gore Gore Girls open for The Cramps
> > here two years ago and it was great.
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, why did you ditch the Premier
> > for The Fender RI tank? Was there a problem with it?
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files,
> > polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files,
> polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
>
>
>
>
>
I see Brian. You know that "reverb-out to normal channel in" is a simple mod
that many folks have done with a patch chord and doesn't require an amp tech.
Did the tech permanently rewire it for that?
I'm also curious about the problem with the one quiet input. Your case may be a
more serious thing but on a Fender Twin, each pair of inputs is marked A and B
and the B input is suppose to be quiter. When you plug two instruments in
simulteneously the A and B inputs balance to the same volume.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Brain Brimstone
To:
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Fender RI Mixer kills treble
Marty, here's the mod story (also the rest of you might get a kick out of
this)
Years ago, before I found a tank and I only had my Twin ('68-9 or so), I knew
I needed more
reverb to play surf. I talked to my tech - Dennis Kager at Central Jersey
Music Service -
and he thought about it and suggested this:
We take the signal coming out of the reverb tank and plug it into the
non-vibrato channel,
where it gets amplified/tonaly controlled, then it goes back into where the
reverb signal
usually goes and the mix gets controlled via the reverb knob on the vibrato
channel that I
use. This mod gets switched on via the bright switch on the clean channel.
Bright On = Mod On.
Bright Off = both channels work as normal.
I used this for a couple of years. It doesn't sound anything like a tank...in
fact it's
practically overdriven, a real nasty, brassy sound, that at the time really
fit my playing.
Eventually the noise got to be too much and I found the Premier.
Last time I took the Twin in, Dennis mentioned that the reverb tank in the amp
was shot and
did I want to replace it? I said no because I was a little short on funds and
figured it
didn't matter anyway. While messing around with sounds with the new RI, I
noticed that even
though the tank in the Twin didn't work, it was still (of course) routing the
signal, so the
EQ on the clean channel and the reverb knob were actually adding another
element to my sound.
This would explain how things would sound different all the time, knobs I
didn't think were
affecting me were, and would potentially change whenever we moved the amp
around.
Awhile ago, I noticed that one of my inputs on my vibrato channel sticks out
and the other is
flush. When troubleshooting for what turned out to be the mixer knob, I tried
both inputs, the
flush one that I normally don't use sounded much deader than the other.
So this means to do an A/B, I have to take the amp in to get that fixed, then
I can plug A
into input 1 and B into input 2. Another option is to remove the mod so I can
turn the Clean
Bright on. And then plug A into Clean and B into Vibrato and EQ the sounds
differently...which
sounds like I'll be there for hours tweaking my sound!
So, either idea is good and probably what I'll do in the long run, however,
neither one is
something I could have for the Cramps show....unless I A/B Clean/Vibrato, and
crank the treble
on the clean to make up for the lack of bright. Sorry, just thinking out loud
here.
Brain
Oh! A bit more on Dennis. If you live ANYWHERE near Edison, NJ USE. THIS. GUY!
He has been
INCREDIBLY dependable for years. I had heard he was legendary but I assumed
that was among
people I knew. Googling him bring up that he: worked at the Ampeg factory
(possibly designing
them, can't seem to find out) until he left in 1967 to make Sundown amps which
I'd never heard
of before, but all reports rave about them, later he designed an amp for
Pignose and something
called a Reverend Hellhound. Also, when we bring our Farfisa in there, he says
"oh i'll need a
something..." then pulls out a DRAWER full of them. A drawer full of Farfisa
parts, need I say
more.
Whew. Done.
Marty Tippens said:
>
> I need to hear more about your amp mod, Brian. Is it really that each of the
four inputs on
> your Twin is assigned to different channels? Normally each pair of inputs is
assigned to
> different channels and if you plug two lines in to the same pair of inputs,
they balance out.
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brain Brimstone
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Fender RI Mixer kills treble
>
>
> ...Also, it doesn't sound good with the vox and the 'verb. Too noisy. And
an A/B switch is
> possible, but the inputs on my Twin (modded) all sound different, so I'd
have to get that
> fixed and then set up the A/B switch....although that does sound like the
best idea so far.
>
>
> Richard said:
> >
> >
> > Hey Brain,
> >
> > This doesn't pertain to your question, but I just
> > wanna chime in and say I love The Brimstones and am
> > sick that I won't get to see you guys open for The
> > Cramps. I saw The Gore Gore Girls open for The Cramps
> > here two years ago and it was great.
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, why did you ditch the Premier
> > for The Fender RI tank? Was there a problem with it?
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files,
> > polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files,
> polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files,
> polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think he did permanently rewire it...and no i didn't know that "reverb-out to
normal in" was
a simple mod. Oh well. That's certainly helpful about the A & B inputs balancing
out. I'm
probably gonna pick up an easily returnable A/B Switcher. (Whirlwind if I can
find it, Morely
if I can't) tonight, and test it out. Thanks!
Marty Tippens said:
>
> I see Brian. You know that "reverb-out to normal channel in" is a simple mod
that many folks
> have done with a patch chord and doesn't require an amp tech. Did the tech
permanently rewire
> it for that?
>
> I'm also curious about the problem with the one quiet input. Your case may be
a more serious
> thing but on a Fender Twin, each pair of inputs is marked A and B and the B
input is suppose
> to be quiter. When you plug two instruments in simulteneously the A and B
inputs balance to
> the same volume.
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brain Brimstone
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Fender RI Mixer kills treble
>
>
> Marty, here's the mod story (also the rest of you might get a kick out of
this)
>
> Years ago, before I found a tank and I only had my Twin ('68-9 or so), I
knew I needed more
> reverb to play surf. I talked to my tech - Dennis Kager at Central Jersey
Music Service -
> and he thought about it and suggested this:
>
> We take the signal coming out of the reverb tank and plug it into the
non-vibrato channel,
> where it gets amplified/tonaly controlled, then it goes back into where the
reverb signal
> usually goes and the mix gets controlled via the reverb knob on the vibrato
channel that I
> use. This mod gets switched on via the bright switch on the clean channel.
Bright On = Mod
> On.
> Bright Off = both channels work as normal.
>
> I used this for a couple of years. It doesn't sound anything like a
tank...in fact it's
> practically overdriven, a real nasty, brassy sound, that at the time really
fit my playing.
> Eventually the noise got to be too much and I found the Premier.
>
> Last time I took the Twin in, Dennis mentioned that the reverb tank in the
amp was shot and
> did I want to replace it? I said no because I was a little short on funds
and figured it
> didn't matter anyway. While messing around with sounds with the new RI, I
noticed that even
> though the tank in the Twin didn't work, it was still (of course) routing
the signal, so the
> EQ on the clean channel and the reverb knob were actually adding another
element to my
> sound.
> This would explain how things would sound different all the time, knobs I
didn't think were
> affecting me were, and would potentially change whenever we moved the amp
around.
>
> Awhile ago, I noticed that one of my inputs on my vibrato channel sticks out
and the other
> is
> flush. When troubleshooting for what turned out to be the mixer knob, I
tried both inputs,
> the
> flush one that I normally don't use sounded much deader than the other.
>
> So this means to do an A/B, I have to take the amp in to get that fixed,
then I can plug A
> into input 1 and B into input 2. Another option is to remove the mod so I
can turn the Clean
> Bright on. And then plug A into Clean and B into Vibrato and EQ the sounds
> differently...which
> sounds like I'll be there for hours tweaking my sound!
>
> So, either idea is good and probably what I'll do in the long run, however,
neither one is
> something I could have for the Cramps show....unless I A/B Clean/Vibrato,
and crank the
> treble
> on the clean to make up for the lack of bright. Sorry, just thinking out
loud here.
>
> Brain
>
>
> Oh! A bit more on Dennis. If you live ANYWHERE near Edison, NJ USE. THIS.
GUY! He has been
> INCREDIBLY dependable for years. I had heard he was legendary but I assumed
that was among
> people I knew. Googling him bring up that he: worked at the Ampeg factory
(possibly
> designing
> them, can't seem to find out) until he left in 1967 to make Sundown amps
which I'd never
> heard
> of before, but all reports rave about them, later he designed an amp for
Pignose and
> something
> called a Reverend Hellhound. Also, when we bring our Farfisa in there, he
says "oh i'll need
> a
> something..." then pulls out a DRAWER full of them. A drawer full of Farfisa
parts, need I
> say
> more.
>
> Whew. Done.
>
> Marty Tippens said:
> >
> > I need to hear more about your amp mod, Brian. Is it really that each of
the four inputs
> on
> > your Twin is assigned to different channels? Normally each pair of inputs
is assigned to
> > different channels and if you plug two lines in to the same pair of
inputs, they balance
> out.
> >
> > -Marty
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Brain Brimstone
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Fender RI Mixer kills treble
> >
> >
> > ...Also, it doesn't sound good with the vox and the 'verb. Too noisy.
And an A/B switch
> is
> > possible, but the inputs on my Twin (modded) all sound different, so I'd
have to get
> that
> > fixed and then set up the A/B switch....although that does sound like
the best idea so
> far.
> >
> >
> > Richard said:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Brain,
> > >
> > > This doesn't pertain to your question, but I just
> > > wanna chime in and say I love The Brimstones and am
> > > sick that I won't get to see you guys open for The
> > > Cramps. I saw The Gore Gore Girls open for The Cramps
> > > here two years ago and it was great.
> > >
> > > Just out of curiosity, why did you ditch the Premier
> > > for The Fender RI tank? Was there a problem with it?
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
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> > >
> >
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> >
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> > Visit for archived messages,
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> >
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