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Hey, everybody:
I've had some recent experiences with guitar instructors and I
thought y'all might be able to provide me with some advice.
First off, let me say that I've noodling for about 20 years; I've had
some theory at the college level, and some band/gig experience, a few
years ago.
Ever since I first picked up the guitar, I've never really played
covers. Sure, I learned some standard guitar store licks (Smoke on
the Water, Stairway to Heaven, etc), but the vast majority of my work
has been original. I would much rather play my own stuff than other
people's, and frankly, I'm pretty good at it. This has left some
pretty big gaps in my edumacation (especially with leads) and I've
sought to fill those holes with formal training.
However, I'm a little soured by the experiences that I've had. Of the
last three instructors that I've tried (who have also gotten the
above introduction), not a single one has asked me to play for them
or requested a recording before beginning instruction. This seems to
be an utter waste of my time. In addition, they all told me that if I
want to improve, I have to start learning covers. I have to say that
I think this is total BS. I'm pretty well set in my ways, and I know
I hold the pick funny, and that I should probably change my right
hand position, but the days when that kind of stuff mattered to me
are long gone.
So, my questions to y'all are:
Do I really need instruction or should I consider collaboration
instead?
Should I seek out mentors instead of instructors?
Am I an unusual student and therefore need an unusual instructor?
What's your feeling on learning covers as opposed to working on
original material?
Are there any instructors (or students) out there that could provide
some guidance as to what to look for (and look out for) when choosing
teachers?
Is there a point in the learning process where "traditional"
instruction is no longer going to provide good results?
Would I be better off getting instruction with song-writing as
opposed to technique? Do people teach that kind of thing?
I would appreciate any responses... feel free to respond directly to
me, but I would prefer if the group had a chance to participate.
Thanks!
Blue
Albuquerque, New Mexico
I'm pretty much self taught. Instructors were a waste
of my time. What I've found it great is to have
friends who also play musical instruments and play
with them and they can show you stuff and you can show
them. Also, if you don't want to learn covers, trying
to figure them out for yourself is always fun.
Knowing how other people play songs can always help
you learn new styles.
--- ultra_blue <> wrote:
> Hey, everybody:
>
> I've had some recent experiences with guitar
> instructors and I
> thought y'all might be able to provide me with some
> advice.
>
> First off, let me say that I've noodling for about
> 20 years; I've had
> some theory at the college level, and some band/gig
> experience, a few
> years ago.
>
> Ever since I first picked up the guitar, I've never
> really played
> covers. Sure, I learned some standard guitar store
> licks (Smoke on
> the Water, Stairway to Heaven, etc), but the vast
> majority of my work
> has been original. I would much rather play my own
> stuff than other
> people's, and frankly, I'm pretty good at it. This
> has left some
> pretty big gaps in my edumacation (especially with
> leads) and I've
> sought to fill those holes with formal training.
>
> However, I'm a little soured by the experiences that
> I've had. Of the
> last three instructors that I've tried (who have
> also gotten the
> above introduction), not a single one has asked me
> to play for them
> or requested a recording before beginning
> instruction. This seems to
> be an utter waste of my time. In addition, they all
> told me that if I
> want to improve, I have to start learning covers. I
> have to say that
> I think this is total BS. I'm pretty well set in my
> ways, and I know
> I hold the pick funny, and that I should probably
> change my right
> hand position, but the days when that kind of stuff
> mattered to me
> are long gone.
>
> So, my questions to y'all are:
>
> Do I really need instruction or should I consider
> collaboration
> instead?
> Should I seek out mentors instead of instructors?
> Am I an unusual student and therefore need an
> unusual instructor?
>
> What's your feeling on learning covers as opposed to
> working on
> original material?
>
> Are there any instructors (or students) out there
> that could provide
> some guidance as to what to look for (and look out
> for) when choosing
> teachers?
>
> Is there a point in the learning process where
> "traditional"
> instruction is no longer going to provide good
> results?
>
> Would I be better off getting instruction with
> song-writing as
> opposed to technique? Do people teach that kind of
> thing?
>
> I would appreciate any responses... feel free to
> respond directly to
> me, but I would prefer if the group had a chance to
> participate.
>
> Thanks!
> Blue
>
> Albuquerque, New Mexico
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
I agree. The best way to learn, and especially if you have some experience,
(you say you have 20 years or so), is to play with other people. I started
out with lessons about 17 years ago, studied jazz performance at the
university...but my best learning experiences have been with other players.
I was never into learning covers and I've just plain forgotten most of the
songs I knew. It is good to learn some and better to figure them out
yourself, by listening. Training your ears is important.
I also think knowing some theory and scales/modes and arpeggios is important
as well. Of course, that's all kinda boring to sit and run thru scales, but
it helps. It even helps to close your eyes and imagine your fingers playing
the scales - then it gets absorbed into your brain as well as your fingers.
There are also many finger exercises to help train, stretch, and strengthen
your fingers and hands - for both your picking and fretting hands.
Recording a chord progression and playing over it is very beneficial if you
don't have friends to jam with all the time.
The great thing about coming up with original material is that you develop
your own sound. If you spend all your time playing covers, all you're going
to do is end up sounding like someone else. All the great guitarists have
their own distinguishing sound.
I think it's ridiculous if a guitar instructor attempts to teach you if
he/she hasn't even heard you play...how are they to know where to start?
Everyone is on a different level, unless you're just starting out.
As long as you keep on playing, you're only going to get better. I see/hear
myself getting faster everyday...but I need to not forget how to play slow
as well, and with feeling. It's not about how fast you can play and how
many notes you can play in one second, it's what you play that matters. It
should come from the heart. He's not a surf player, but one of my favorite
guitar solos is Neil Young's 'Cinnamon Girl' - it's all just one note, but
he puts so much soul and feeling into it, it's perfect, and perfect for the
song.
Hope that helps...
Erik
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Pleasant [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 6:08 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Guitar Teachers and Students
I'm pretty much self taught. Instructors were a waste
of my time. What I've found it great is to have
friends who also play musical instruments and play
with them and they can show you stuff and you can show
them. Also, if you don't want to learn covers, trying
to figure them out for yourself is always fun.
Knowing how other people play songs can always help
you learn new styles.
--- ultra_blue <> wrote:
> Hey, everybody:
>
> I've had some recent experiences with guitar
> instructors and I
> thought y'all might be able to provide me with some
> advice.
>
> First off, let me say that I've noodling for about
> 20 years; I've had
> some theory at the college level, and some band/gig
> experience, a few
> years ago.
>
> Ever since I first picked up the guitar, I've never
> really played
> covers. Sure, I learned some standard guitar store
> licks (Smoke on
> the Water, Stairway to Heaven, etc), but the vast
> majority of my work
> has been original. I would much rather play my own
> stuff than other
> people's, and frankly, I'm pretty good at it. This
> has left some
> pretty big gaps in my edumacation (especially with
> leads) and I've
> sought to fill those holes with formal training.
>
> However, I'm a little soured by the experiences that
> I've had. Of the
> last three instructors that I've tried (who have
> also gotten the
> above introduction), not a single one has asked me
> to play for them
> or requested a recording before beginning
> instruction. This seems to
> be an utter waste of my time. In addition, they all
> told me that if I
> want to improve, I have to start learning covers. I
> have to say that
> I think this is total BS. I'm pretty well set in my
> ways, and I know
> I hold the pick funny, and that I should probably
> change my right
> hand position, but the days when that kind of stuff
> mattered to me
> are long gone.
>
> So, my questions to y'all are:
>
> Do I really need instruction or should I consider
> collaboration
> instead?
> Should I seek out mentors instead of instructors?
> Am I an unusual student and therefore need an
> unusual instructor?
>
> What's your feeling on learning covers as opposed to
> working on
> original material?
>
> Are there any instructors (or students) out there
> that could provide
> some guidance as to what to look for (and look out
> for) when choosing
> teachers?
>
> Is there a point in the learning process where
> "traditional"
> instruction is no longer going to provide good
> results?
>
> Would I be better off getting instruction with
> song-writing as
> opposed to technique? Do people teach that kind of
> thing?
>
> I would appreciate any responses... feel free to
> respond directly to
> me, but I would prefer if the group had a chance to
> participate.
>
> Thanks!
> Blue
>
> Albuquerque, New Mexico
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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A good teacher can make all the difference--the problem is finding a
good one. Some techniques on the guitar are hard to "discover", no
matter what you know about theory. Theory, however, can be learned on
your own, but its the ear training that is essential in conjunction
with theory. I think that, once you have enough theory and knowledge
of chords, voicings, scales and modes, there is no substitute for
playing with other people. I feel it is so important to find either a
bass player or a rhythm guitarist. A rhythm guitarist with a strong
knowledge of theory can be a far out springboard for discovery! I
highly respect your efforts to develop your own style and avoid
covers--but there is such a thing as mastering a tradition. Learning
and playing tunes that people are familiar with can be an excellent
starting point for improvization or embellishment--the audience has a
frame of reference. Also, most musical cultures are like a library of
ideas and motifs, styles and conventions. A teacher can speed up
exposure to that library. One set of books that I found to be pretty
useful is the Berkely guitar books 1 through 3. It was amazing to
learn how hard it was for me to go back to the fundamentals after
years and years of bad habits--but good for getting beyond habitual
barriers.
--- In SurfGuitar101@y..., "ultra_blue" <ultra_blue@y...> wrote:
> Hey, everybody:
>
> I've had some recent experiences with guitar instructors and I
> thought y'all might be able to provide me with some advice.
>
> First off, let me say that I've noodling for about 20 years; I've
had
> some theory at the college level, and some band/gig experience, a
few
> years ago.
>
> Ever since I first picked up the guitar, I've never really played
> covers. Sure, I learned some standard guitar store licks (Smoke on
> the Water, Stairway to Heaven, etc), but the vast majority of my
work
> has been original. I would much rather play my own stuff than other
> people's, and frankly, I'm pretty good at it. This has left some
> pretty big gaps in my edumacation (especially with leads) and I've
> sought to fill those holes with formal training.
>
> However, I'm a little soured by the experiences that I've had. Of
the
> last three instructors that I've tried (who have also gotten the
> above introduction), not a single one has asked me to play for them
> or requested a recording before beginning instruction. This seems
to
> be an utter waste of my time. In addition, they all told me that if
I
> want to improve, I have to start learning covers. I have to say
that
> I think this is total BS. I'm pretty well set in my ways, and I
know
> I hold the pick funny, and that I should probably change my right
> hand position, but the days when that kind of stuff mattered to me
> are long gone.
>
> So, my questions to y'all are:
>
> Do I really need instruction or should I consider collaboration
> instead?
> Should I seek out mentors instead of instructors?
> Am I an unusual student and therefore need an unusual instructor?
>
> What's your feeling on learning covers as opposed to working on
> original material?
>
> Are there any instructors (or students) out there that could
provide
> some guidance as to what to look for (and look out for) when
choosing
> teachers?
>
> Is there a point in the learning process where "traditional"
> instruction is no longer going to provide good results?
>
> Would I be better off getting instruction with song-writing as
> opposed to technique? Do people teach that kind of thing?
>
> I would appreciate any responses... feel free to respond directly
to
> me, but I would prefer if the group had a chance to participate.
>
> Thanks!
> Blue
>
> Albuquerque, New Mexico
Even though you are against it, I suggest you learn every song you
can. Emulation is really the best way to learn anything. You should
learn and absorb every lick you can, no matter how cliched, and then
forget them! You'll find that after awhile you subconciously filter
these cliches through your own experience, it's kind of like making a
stew, mixing the ingredients and comming up with your own flavors.
Just don't copy exclusively from one source, copy everyone! sooner or
later it'll sound like you. This might sound like B.S. , But it's
absolutely true. You also gain a wealth of information by just
analyzing the playing of others. After all this is how we all learn
to talk, and music is a very similar process. If you ask me,
learning a bunch of theory doesn't really help much because music is
spiritual in nature, not just 'nuts and bolts'. I learned my theory
much after I was accomplished on the guitar and I'm glad of it
because I wasn't limited by a bunch of esoteric rules that were only
really meant for analytical purposes, and my playing took on it's own
voice regardless. Unless you're orchestrating a score for an
orchestra most music theory can be pretty useless, I mean, I know
all about the 'cycle of fiths', but never in my entire music carrer
(over 20 years ) have I ever had to use it. So unless you are a
virtuoso ( how many of us are?!!) just copy anything and everything;
I gaurantee you'll be glad you did.
--- In SurfGuitar101@y..., "ultra_blue" <ultra_blue@y...> wrote:
> Hey, everybody:
>
> I've had some recent experiences with guitar instructors and I
> thought y'all might be able to provide me with some advice.
>
> First off, let me say that I've noodling for about 20 years; I've
had
> some theory at the college level, and some band/gig experience, a
few
> years ago.
>
> Ever since I first picked up the guitar, I've never really played
> covers. Sure, I learned some standard guitar store licks (Smoke on
> the Water, Stairway to Heaven, etc), but the vast majority of my
work
> has been original. I would much rather play my own stuff than other
> people's, and frankly, I'm pretty good at it. This has left some
> pretty big gaps in my edumacation (especially with leads) and I've
> sought to fill those holes with formal training.
>
> However, I'm a little soured by the experiences that I've had. Of
the
> last three instructors that I've tried (who have also gotten the
> above introduction), not a single one has asked me to play for them
> or requested a recording before beginning instruction. This seems
to
> be an utter waste of my time. In addition, they all told me that if
I
> want to improve, I have to start learning covers. I have to say
that
> I think this is total BS. I'm pretty well set in my ways, and I
know
> I hold the pick funny, and that I should probably change my right
> hand position, but the days when that kind of stuff mattered to me
> are long gone.
>
> So, my questions to y'all are:
>
> Do I really need instruction or should I consider collaboration
> instead?
> Should I seek out mentors instead of instructors?
> Am I an unusual student and therefore need an unusual instructor?
>
> What's your feeling on learning covers as opposed to working on
> original material?
>
> Are there any instructors (or students) out there that could
provide
> some guidance as to what to look for (and look out for) when
choosing
> teachers?
>
> Is there a point in the learning process where "traditional"
> instruction is no longer going to provide good results?
>
> Would I be better off getting instruction with song-writing as
> opposed to technique? Do people teach that kind of thing?
>
> I would appreciate any responses... feel free to respond directly
to
> me, but I would prefer if the group had a chance to participate.
>
> Thanks!
> Blue
>
> Albuquerque, New Mexico
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
I've only really had one guitar teacher, and it was
when I was a complete newbie about a year ago. He was
extremely technical, and used a lot of terminology I
just didn't understand. I tried to explain to him
that I usually didn't understand what he was saying
and that he was going too fast, but I think he was
just too busy impressing himself to pay attention most
of the time. Finding a good teacher must be the
trick, because everyone recommends it and at the same
time lots of people complain about it. But when I
went off on my own I didn't really progress at
all...then one friend would show me something and I'd
work on that, then another friend would show me
something, then I'd pick up tab for that song, and on
it went. I'm still a newbie, but I'm much better than
I was this time last year sitting in a room with that
particular teacher. He's probably the best player
I've ever seen this side of Dick Dale, but everything
really was "nuts and bolts" to him. He seemed to have
a very dispassionate and even a bit academic attitude
toward music in general. He made me feel like I was
in my senior math class again and not learning how to
play guitar. I just guess it takes all kinds, but I
seriously doubt that I'll ever have another teacher
unless it's a peer or bandmate.
~R
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
