Menu
It was very hard to get anything but big strings...Gibson Sonomatics
and Black Diamond and some Fenders.
Flatwound for the most part. It took years for the companies to "get"
that players wanted thinner strings for bending.
Les
On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 03:34 PM, loscobrassurf wrote:
> ok i get the picture.i have a fender cyclone 2 (mustang body,three
> jagwar pickups,strat trem,and short scale)i'll give it a try.thinking
> about it i do have a fulldrive 2. i use it with just a touch of drive
> and a clean amp it does fatten my sound up alot.we play about 25%
> surf and the rest rock instro so i do alot of bending.the problem
> with going to big strings (besides my tendons)is doing a new nut. all
> the modern guitars come with 9's . just a thought back in the day
> when surf ruled couldn't you only get big strings?
>
> miller
>
>
> --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Supertwang,
>>> I swapped strings to get lighter sets as well. That became
>> especially
>>> important as the 60's moved along and blusier styles took hold.
>>>
>>> Like I said in another post, my palm muting skill (which I
> learned
>> thru
>>> many years of messing about with pedal steel guitar) has served
> me
>> well
>>> in achieving very fast double picking speeds on lighter strings.
>> This
>>> was necessary to do both surf technique and bending on the same
>> guitar.
>>> I also use knuckle blocking for keeping strings under control at
>> those
>>> speeds.
>>
>> That's pretty good that you can do that Les. I agree, alot of tone
>> does come from your hands, but still I cannot imagine some surf
> songs
>> sounding the same on lighter strings. For example Dick
> Dale's "Night
>> Rider" that just sounds right being double picked on heavy strings
>> being forced through a reverb tank. Also alot of Eddie Bertrand
>> stuff. For example his solos on "Scratch" would sound different
> with
>> lighter strings. As much as you can say that tone comes from ones
>> hands there is something to be said for using heavy strings and
>> hitting them hard, exspecially in the surf genre. I've always
>> thought that the guitarists who I enjoy that use lighter strings
> have
>> a weaker sound than those I listen to who use heavier strings. I
>> love James Burton and his playing was ahead of its time, however,
> his
>> tone wasn't really all that great. But that's just an opinion I
>> guess.
>>
>> Bill Aqua
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
At 19:04 6/9/2004, you wrote:
>It was very hard to get anything but big strings...Gibson Sonomatics
>and Black Diamond and some Fenders.
>Flatwound for the most part. It took years for the companies to "get"
>that players wanted thinner strings for bending.
>
>Les
hmmm
now this is getting interesting. That´s a subject I´ve always been curious
about.
90
> Well, Eddie Bertrand plays with me on my new CD's so the scoop is
that
> he now plays with 010's. And he sounds the same (when he wants to)
as
> he ever did in the old days. Eddie and I have discussed this ad
> nauseum. Mostly, we're after new sonic territory which should be
> obvious to all who hear what we've done.
Les,
That's really cool your playing with Eddie. Could you tell us what
kind of gear he's using lately? Does he still use the Jaguar?
That's great that you are trying to navigate into some new sonic
territories. However, I've heard Eddie's newer version of "Mr.
Rebel" (the on that Phil Tiki posted for us all to hear) and I have
to say it pales in comparison to the original. I guess I'm a sucker
for that old surf tone. I think there are alot of places one can go
with that sound that haven't been explored yet. The Treblemakers are
a band that come to mind when I think of a newer band that sounds
sonically like the older bands.
I'm still going to have to disagree with you as far as how important
strings are to one's sound. I'd really like to hear Eddie playing
his old hits with the lighter strings, and I can only imagine what
James Burton would sound like trying to chicken pick on my Jaguar
strung with flatwound 13s(obviouly better than me). I do agree 90% of
our sound comes from our hands but strings play a pretty big part in
it. You sound like yourself on all the guitars you try because your
sound just might not be that "old surf sound." You said yourself yo
can't get the sound you want out of flatwound 13s.
Bill Aqua
www.freewebs.com/reluctantaquanauts
> "For example Dick Dale's "Night Rider" that just sounds right being
> double picked on heavy strings being forced through a reverb tank."
>
> You're right, Dick gets a very large tone on that tune. But that's
his
> sound. If I copied it, there would be little reason for the likes
of me
> in instro circles.
>
> " I've always thought that the guitarists who I enjoy that use
lighter
> strings have a weaker sound than those I listen to who use heavier
> strings."
>
> It depends on your specific taste. We gravitate toward defending
that
> which we admire. We perceive our perceptions. By taking Dick's
double
> picking and mixing it up with neo-classical riffing from Pagannini,
> Mozart, Bach and Yngwie, I've moved into my own turf (...err, surf)
> with what I'm doing. Blend that in with Ventures melodicism and a
dash
> of Jeff Beck and you've got what I'm doing. The shift and sacrifice
to
> accomodate all these things at once makes heavy strings for me a
> non-starter. For someone who likes the older trad style, heavy is
the
> way to go for nailing that sound. For my sound, quite the opposite.
>
> "I agree, alot of tone does come from your hands, but still I
cannot
> imagine some surf songs sounding the same on lighter strings."
>
> I sound the same no matter which guitar I use and generally,
regardless
> of type of string. This is because I have my own sound. As does
Dick
> who picked up MY guitar that night in Denver and sounded the same
on
> mine as he does on his.My setup was, arguably, less suitable for
his
> level of hand attack but that's because he needs that big string to
> acheive the sound HE'S after. (Of course, he broke a string
trying,
> but I forgave him for that! :-) I do prefer nickel wound because
they
> last and don't exaggerate finger noise. (Fender 150's to be exact.)
>
> Regards,
> Les
>
>
> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 03:02 PM, supertwangreverb wrote:
>
> >
> >> Dear Supertwang,
> >> I swapped strings to get lighter sets as well. That became
> > especially
> >> important as the 60's moved along and blusier styles took hold.
> >>
> >> Like I said in another post, my palm muting skill (which I
learned
> > thru
> >> many years of messing about with pedal steel guitar) has served
me
> > well
> >> in achieving very fast double picking speeds on lighter strings.
> > This
> >> was necessary to do both surf technique and bending on the same
> > guitar.
> >> I also use knuckle blocking for keeping strings under control at
> > those
> >> speeds.
> >
> > That's pretty good that you can do that Les. I agree, alot of
tone
> > does come from your hands, but still I cannot imagine some surf
songs
> > sounding the same on lighter strings. For example Dick
Dale's "Night
> > Rider" that just sounds right being double picked on heavy strings
> > being forced through a reverb tank. Also alot of Eddie Bertrand
> > stuff. For example his solos on "Scratch" would sound different
with
> > lighter strings. As much as you can say that tone comes from ones
> > hands there is something to be said for using heavy strings and
> > hitting them hard, exspecially in the surf genre. I've always
> > thought that the guitarists who I enjoy that use lighter strings
have
> > a weaker sound than those I listen to who use heavier strings. I
> > love James Burton and his playing was ahead of its time, however,
his
> > tone wasn't really all that great. But that's just an opinion I
> > guess.
> >
> > Bill Aqua
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know much from Ingwie but I do like the scalloped fretboard they put on
his signature strat. John McLaughlin used a scalloped fretboard as well. I
played that configuration on a Vox guitar in the mid '70's. It takes a minute to
get used to, but it keeps your fingers off the wood. Very much the opposite
idear from what Semi Mosely was doing with his fretless-wonder Ventures models.
I'd be afraid to put heavy strings on a scalloped fretboard so I haven't used
one for surf music. It certainly would make bends easier.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie Fradkin
To:
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] strings and strats
If you listen to my CD's, I'm double picking faster than Dick on some
of the tunes ("Surfin' The Classics, Part 1" for example), and I'm
doing that with a .042 on the bottom E.
Of course, I'm also "palm muting" to control "flap" so maybe that's why
I can do this the way I've described.
I think every guitarist evolves his / her own way of solving problems
and defining approaches. What works for A may be useless for B.
By way of example, I love Jeff Beck and rushed out to buy his 1st
signature Strat many years ago, you know, the one with the FAAAAT neck.
I couldn't for the life of me, figure out how he could play that. And
yet, that guitar sounded great for him. But not for me....
Yngwie Malmsteen plays with an .008 on top and that puzzles me as well
as regards certain licks he does.
But he's evidently adapted a individual technique to do it that way...
as I have to do things my way...as you have to do things your way.
Coming from bass, I can definitely see how light guitar strings could
feel like rubber bands to you.
Les
On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 12:29 PM, Richard wrote:
>
> I don't see how you can double pick that well with
> lighter strings. I started out on bass and didn't
> touch a guitar for almost two years. When I finally
> got curious about those little six string things I
> picked it up and thought it would be absolutely
> impossible to play strings that small. I immediately
> went to 11's to learn on, went to flat-wound 11's which
> I found easier to trem pick on, and am about to try 12
> rounds because I find the 11 rounds too slack now that
> I'm back to those. I'm not the world's greatest, but
> with the 11 rounds I'm unbearably sloppy. I just
> can't keep it under control, even with a lighter pick.
> I always assumed that the only way to really double
> pick that fast (like Dick, or faster) and get that big
> a sound was to have 13's or larger.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wonder if DD exaggerates when he says 18's. In the late 90's, he was braggin'
that he used 14's, then it was 16's. If he's sayin' 18's now, it's gone up
again. 13's with a nice low action is not bad.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie Fradkin
To:
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] strings and strats
Dear Marty,
I don't think Dick has ever mentioned it. But... 2 years ago, I just
happened top opening for him here in Denver at the Bluebird Theater and
I happened to pick up his guitar (which is strung for a righty although
as you know, he plays upside down as a lefty). In any case, I found
that guitar NOWHERE near as hard to play as I thought it would be. Now,
I realize that Dick had a "set" of 18-060's in his case (his roadie
proudly displayed them) but that guitar just didn't SEEM to be strung
anywhere near that heavy.
But I'd hate to break a myth... :-)
Les
On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 11:30 AM, Marty Tippens wrote:
> Has anyone heard if Dick Dale complains of tenditis? It would be
> interesting to know.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Leslie Fradkin
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 6:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] strings and strats
>
>
> Guys,
> I played flat wound 11's and 12's back in 1964 when I started out
> (on a
> Hagstrom I and a sonic blue 64 Fender Strat) and they were no picnic.
> Dick Dale's hype notwithstanding, you don't need such a big string to
> get a good sound. And you'll get tendonitis one day if you keep
> working
> with very heavy guages.
>
> Many factors go into making a "fat" sound and string guage is only
> one
> factor. Your amp, your pick attack, what guitar, etc. all play a role
> in defining what your sound is.
>
> Les
>
> On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:10 PM, loscobrassurf wrote:
>
>> you guys are blowing my mind twelves and thirteens dang. you don't
>> bend much do you.flat wounds? of course now i'm going to have to try
>> them there go my tendons.i use 10-46 ghs (got to support the home
>> state) as far as 90's strats i use a 95 amer standard custom color
>> auqua. i have never played another strat that sounds as fat or as
>> even as this one. the hi's are smooth the lows are clear. i have
>> always thought that if you took ten strats some would be good some
>> would be great some would be crap all the same year and model of
>> course. so if you get a crappy one keep looking.
>>
>> miller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>> Visit for archived
>> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Steven, from 50 Foot Combo in Belgium,
uses a Firebird.
-d
--- Leslie Fradkin <> wrote:
>
> A Gibson Firebird has a very different tension
> situation from a Fender
> since it has mini humbuckers that sonically resemble
> Fenders but a
> 243/4" Gibson scale. So any light guage will feel
> slinky on that puppy..
>
> I wonder if anyone uses a Firebird for surf?
>
> Les
>
> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Marty
> Tippens wrote:
>
> > I have always loved Johnny Winter's sound. He must
> be using 9's or
> > tuned-down 10's. The strings have a thinner
> twangier sound and he
> > bends the hell out of 'em. It's not a surf sound.
> > -Marty
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: reverbrob
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 10:46 PM
> > Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: strings and strats
> >
> >
> > Funny thing about string gauges. No matter what
> I try, I just can't
> > get a Strat to feel or sound right with anything
> below twelves (for
> > surf instro). Seems like a handful of mush even
> just going down to
> > elevens. BUT--- for general rock and roll and
> country, I think
> > snappy little tens and elevens on something like
> a Telecaster sound
> > WAY better--- anything heavier is too meaty and
> loses the twang.
> >
> > So it depends on the turf, I guess.
> >
> > Rob Woolsey
> > Detonators
> >
> > --- In ,
> "loscobrassurf"
> > <loscobrassurf@y...> wrote:
> >> you guys are blowing my mind twelves and
> thirteens dang. you don't
> >> bend much do you.flat wounds? of course now i'm
> going to have to
> > try
> >> them there go my tendons.
> >
> >
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I wrote this earlier:
> I remember reading on Dick Dale's own website that he was
> using "slightly skinnier" strings these days.
A couple of people have asked me about this. So I went and found the
quote from DD's site:
"He makes time to endorse some of his favorite products, including
Dean Markley strings, Dale's string sizes are 16p, 18p, 20p. 38w,
48w, 58w...they use to be 39w, 49w, 60w.....he says he's getting
lazy now."
So yeah, it's not like he's using 09's now, not that big of a change
after all....
BN
Supertwang,
"I'm still going to have to disagree with you as far as how important
> strings are to one's sound."
I do not disagree with you on how important strings are to one's sound.
I simply said that I can't use heavy strings to get MY sound. I don't
doubt that heavy strings contribute very much to the sound you prefer.
"That's really cool your playing with Eddie. Could you tell us what
> kind of gear he's using lately? Does he still use the Jaguar? "
On to Eddie's gear. He likes to play Strats with 010 guage and modified
pickups, usually EMG's. Pickup noise drives him crazy, as it does
distract from his tone. He, to my knowledge, no longer uses the Jaguar.
I'm not sure if he still owns it, because I've not seen it when I've
been over to his house. He has a lot of guitars, mostly, Fender Strats.
But he still owns the Showman rig from those days although he nows
likes to play with two Fender Quad Reverb Amps (4-12"'s in each). He
also plays thru rack gear, usually, some kind of tube preamp to warm up
the sound. I'll ask him what brand it is. He brought a lot of gear to
the Phil Dirt KFJC show that we did in June 1999. We needed a whole
SUV, just for his stuff! :-)
"That's great that you are trying to navigate into some new sonic
> territories. However, I've heard Eddie's newer version of "Mr.
> Rebel" (the on that Phil Tiki posted for us all to hear) and I have
> to say it pales in comparison to the original."
Your statement contradicts itself. Eddie & I both believe in uncharted
territory. That philosophy is one of the prime reasons he's doing this
project with me. We do his old hits live, BTW. We just update them a
little bit for modern ears. We performed "Mr. Rebel" and "Squadcar" at
the KFJC show. They were extremely well received and sounded great.
That's because we played them with passion and heart, which to us,
matters more than the gear we choose to use.
"I guess I'm a sucker
> for that old surf tone."
I love it as well.
"You sound like yourself on all the guitars you try because your
> sound just might not be that "old surf sound." "
You're absolutely right! I don't want to sound like the old surf bands.
That turf is best left to them IMHO.
My CD's prove your point. I just haven't done it with heavy strings. In
fact, if I had, I'd sound just like the old surf bands. Which, IMHO,
would be pointless.
Regards,
Les
On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 06:39 PM, supertwangreverb wrote:
>
>> Well, Eddie Bertrand plays with me on my new CD's so the scoop is
> that
>> he now plays with 010's. And he sounds the same (when he wants to)
> as
>> he ever did in the old days. Eddie and I have discussed this ad
>> nauseum. Mostly, we're after new sonic territory which should be
>> obvious to all who hear what we've done.
>
> Les,
> That's really cool your playing with Eddie. Could you tell us what
> kind of gear he's using lately? Does he still use the Jaguar?
> That's great that you are trying to navigate into some new sonic
> territories. However, I've heard Eddie's newer version of "Mr.
> Rebel" (the on that Phil Tiki posted for us all to hear) and I have
> to say it pales in comparison to the original. I guess I'm a sucker
> for that old surf tone. I think there are alot of places one can go
> with that sound that haven't been explored yet. The Treblemakers are
> a band that come to mind when I think of a newer band that sounds
> sonically like the older bands.
>
>
> I'm still going to have to disagree with you as far as how important
> strings are to one's sound. I'd really like to hear Eddie playing
> his old hits with the lighter strings, and I can only imagine what
> James Burton would sound like trying to chicken pick on my Jaguar
> strung with flatwound 13s(obviouly better than me). I do agree 90% of
> our sound comes from our hands but strings play a pretty big part in
> it. You sound like yourself on all the guitars you try because your
> sound just might not be that "old surf sound." You said yourself yo
> can't get the sound you want out of flatwound 13s.
>
> Bill Aqua
> www.freewebs.com/reluctantaquanauts
>
>
>
>
>
>> "For example Dick Dale's "Night Rider" that just sounds right being
>> double picked on heavy strings being forced through a reverb tank."
>>
>> You're right, Dick gets a very large tone on that tune. But that's
> his
>> sound. If I copied it, there would be little reason for the likes
> of me
>> in instro circles.
>>
>> " I've always thought that the guitarists who I enjoy that use
> lighter
>> strings have a weaker sound than those I listen to who use heavier
>> strings."
>>
>> It depends on your specific taste. We gravitate toward defending
> that
>> which we admire. We perceive our perceptions. By taking Dick's
> double
>> picking and mixing it up with neo-classical riffing from Pagannini,
>> Mozart, Bach and Yngwie, I've moved into my own turf (...err, surf)
>> with what I'm doing. Blend that in with Ventures melodicism and a
> dash
>> of Jeff Beck and you've got what I'm doing. The shift and sacrifice
> to
>> accomodate all these things at once makes heavy strings for me a
>> non-starter. For someone who likes the older trad style, heavy is
> the
>> way to go for nailing that sound. For my sound, quite the opposite.
>>
>> "I agree, alot of tone does come from your hands, but still I
> cannot
>> imagine some surf songs sounding the same on lighter strings."
>>
>> I sound the same no matter which guitar I use and generally,
> regardless
>> of type of string. This is because I have my own sound. As does
> Dick
>> who picked up MY guitar that night in Denver and sounded the same
> on
>> mine as he does on his.My setup was, arguably, less suitable for
> his
>> level of hand attack but that's because he needs that big string to
>> acheive the sound HE'S after. (Of course, he broke a string
> trying,
>> but I forgave him for that! :-) I do prefer nickel wound because
> they
>> last and don't exaggerate finger noise. (Fender 150's to be exact.)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Les
>>
>>
>> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 03:02 PM, supertwangreverb wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Supertwang,
>>>> I swapped strings to get lighter sets as well. That became
>>> especially
>>>> important as the 60's moved along and blusier styles took hold.
>>>>
>>>> Like I said in another post, my palm muting skill (which I
> learned
>>> thru
>>>> many years of messing about with pedal steel guitar) has served
> me
>>> well
>>>> in achieving very fast double picking speeds on lighter strings.
>>> This
>>>> was necessary to do both surf technique and bending on the same
>>> guitar.
>>>> I also use knuckle blocking for keeping strings under control at
>>> those
>>>> speeds.
>>>
>>> That's pretty good that you can do that Les. I agree, alot of
> tone
>>> does come from your hands, but still I cannot imagine some surf
> songs
>>> sounding the same on lighter strings. For example Dick
> Dale's "Night
>>> Rider" that just sounds right being double picked on heavy strings
>>> being forced through a reverb tank. Also alot of Eddie Bertrand
>>> stuff. For example his solos on "Scratch" would sound different
> with
>>> lighter strings. As much as you can say that tone comes from ones
>>> hands there is something to be said for using heavy strings and
>>> hitting them hard, exspecially in the surf genre. I've always
>>> thought that the guitarists who I enjoy that use lighter strings
> have
>>> a weaker sound than those I listen to who use heavier strings. I
>>> love James Burton and his playing was ahead of its time, however,
> his
>>> tone wasn't really all that great. But that's just an opinion I
>>> guess.
>>>
>>> Bill Aqua
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>> Visit for archived
>>> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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I have used Yngwie Strat models for surf. They work great for that
application. But they don't work with heavy strings. They require a
very light left hand touch. But the bending is wild, that's for sure.
Les
On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 09:15 PM, Marty Tippens wrote:
> I don't know much from Ingwie but I do like the scalloped fretboard
> they put on his signature strat. John McLaughlin used a scalloped
> fretboard as well. I played that configuration on a Vox guitar in the
> mid '70's. It takes a minute to get used to, but it keeps your fingers
> off the wood. Very much the opposite idear from what Semi Mosely was
> doing with his fretless-wonder Ventures models. I'd be afraid to put
> heavy strings on a scalloped fretboard so I haven't used one for surf
> music. It certainly would make bends easier.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Leslie Fradkin
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] strings and strats
>
>
> If you listen to my CD's, I'm double picking faster than Dick on some
> of the tunes ("Surfin' The Classics, Part 1" for example), and I'm
> doing that with a .042 on the bottom E.
> Of course, I'm also "palm muting" to control "flap" so maybe that's
> why
> I can do this the way I've described.
>
> I think every guitarist evolves his / her own way of solving problems
> and defining approaches. What works for A may be useless for B.
>
> By way of example, I love Jeff Beck and rushed out to buy his 1st
> signature Strat many years ago, you know, the one with the FAAAAT
> neck.
> I couldn't for the life of me, figure out how he could play that. And
> yet, that guitar sounded great for him. But not for me....
>
> Yngwie Malmsteen plays with an .008 on top and that puzzles me as
> well
> as regards certain licks he does.
> But he's evidently adapted a individual technique to do it that
> way...
> as I have to do things my way...as you have to do things your way.
>
> Coming from bass, I can definitely see how light guitar strings could
> feel like rubber bands to you.
>
>
> Les
>
> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 12:29 PM, Richard wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't see how you can double pick that well with
>> lighter strings. I started out on bass and didn't
>> touch a guitar for almost two years. When I finally
>> got curious about those little six string things I
>> picked it up and thought it would be absolutely
>> impossible to play strings that small. I immediately
>> went to 11's to learn on, went to flat-wound 11's which
>> I found easier to trem pick on, and am about to try 12
>> rounds because I find the 11 rounds too slack now that
>> I'm back to those. I'm not the world's greatest, but
>> with the 11 rounds I'm unbearably sloppy. I just
>> can't keep it under control, even with a lighter pick.
>> I always assumed that the only way to really double
>> pick that fast (like Dick, or faster) and get that big
>> a sound was to have 13's or larger.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
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I believe that DD has 013's on his Strat. That's what it FELT like to
me. 018, strikes me as hype.
Nice hype, but BS.
Les
On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 09:18 PM, Marty Tippens wrote:
> I wonder if DD exaggerates when he says 18's. In the late 90's, he was
> braggin' that he used 14's, then it was 16's. If he's sayin' 18's now,
> it's gone up again. 13's with a nice low action is not bad.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Leslie Fradkin
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] strings and strats
>
>
> Dear Marty,
> I don't think Dick has ever mentioned it. But... 2 years ago, I just
> happened top opening for him here in Denver at the Bluebird Theater
> and
> I happened to pick up his guitar (which is strung for a righty
> although
> as you know, he plays upside down as a lefty). In any case, I found
> that guitar NOWHERE near as hard to play as I thought it would be.
> Now,
> I realize that Dick had a "set" of 18-060's in his case (his roadie
> proudly displayed them) but that guitar just didn't SEEM to be strung
> anywhere near that heavy.
>
> But I'd hate to break a myth... :-)
>
> Les
>
> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 11:30 AM, Marty Tippens wrote:
>
>> Has anyone heard if Dick Dale complains of tenditis? It would be
>> interesting to know.
>> -Marty
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Leslie Fradkin
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 6:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] strings and strats
>>
>>
>> Guys,
>> I played flat wound 11's and 12's back in 1964 when I started out
>> (on a
>> Hagstrom I and a sonic blue 64 Fender Strat) and they were no
>> picnic.
>> Dick Dale's hype notwithstanding, you don't need such a big string
>> to
>> get a good sound. And you'll get tendonitis one day if you keep
>> working
>> with very heavy guages.
>>
>> Many factors go into making a "fat" sound and string guage is only
>> one
>> factor. Your amp, your pick attack, what guitar, etc. all play a
>> role
>> in defining what your sound is.
>>
>> Les
>>
>> On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 07:10 PM, loscobrassurf wrote:
>>
>>> you guys are blowing my mind twelves and thirteens dang. you don't
>>> bend much do you.flat wounds? of course now i'm going to have to try
>>> them there go my tendons.i use 10-46 ghs (got to support the home
>>> state) as far as 90's strats i use a 95 amer standard custom color
>>> auqua. i have never played another strat that sounds as fat or as
>>> even as this one. the hi's are smooth the lows are clear. i have
>>> always thought that if you took ten strats some would be good some
>>> would be great some would be crap all the same year and model of
>>> course. so if you get a crappy one keep looking.
>>>
>>> miller
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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I posted an MP3 ripped from the porn movie he did a few years ago. The
song was awful. Not only the crappy song, but the crappy over-processed
guitars and crappy electronic drums.
Since this the last thing I've heard from Mr. Bertrand, I was just
wondering if this his 'updated' sound?
Tell Eddie he needs to get back in the surf. We miss him.
And leave the drum machine on the beach...
Phil Tiki
__________________________
The Cocktail Preachers
On Sep 7, 2004, at 10:38 AM, Leslie Fradkin wrote:
>
> "That's great that you are trying to navigate into some new sonic
>> territories. However, I've heard Eddie's newer version of "Mr.
>> Rebel" (the on that Phil Tiki posted for us all to hear) and I have
>> to say it pales in comparison to the original."
>
> Your statement contradicts itself. Eddie & I both believe in uncharted
> territory. That philosophy is one of the prime reasons he's doing this
> project with me. We do his old hits live, BTW. We just update them a
> little bit for modern ears. We performed "Mr. Rebel" and "Squadcar" at
> the KFJC show. They were extremely well received and sounded great.
> That's because we played them with passion and heart, which to us,
> matters more than the gear we choose to use.
>
Eddie hates this incident, and regrets doing it. He was tricked by the
producer and although he insisted his name not be used, it was anyway.
We used a real drummer (Peter G.) on the stuff we did together and will
continue to use real drums.
And no, it's not his updated sound.
Les
On Tuesday, September 7, 2004, at 10:43 AM, Phil Kucer wrote:
> I posted an MP3 ripped from the porn movie he did a few years ago. The
> song was awful. Not only the crappy song, but the crappy over-processed
> guitars and crappy electronic drums.
>
> Since this the last thing I've heard from Mr. Bertrand, I was just
> wondering if this his 'updated' sound?
>
> Tell Eddie he needs to get back in the surf. We miss him.
>
>
> And leave the drum machine on the beach...
>
>
>
> Phil Tiki
> __________________________
> The Cocktail Preachers
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2004, at 10:38 AM, Leslie Fradkin wrote:
>
>>
>> "That's great that you are trying to navigate into some new sonic
>>> territories. However, I've heard Eddie's newer version of "Mr.
>>> Rebel" (the on that Phil Tiki posted for us all to hear) and I have
>>> to say it pales in comparison to the original."
>>
>> Your statement contradicts itself. Eddie & I both believe in uncharted
>> territory. That philosophy is one of the prime reasons he's doing this
>> project with me. We do his old hits live, BTW. We just update them a
>> little bit for modern ears. We performed "Mr. Rebel" and "Squadcar" at
>> the KFJC show. They were extremely well received and sounded great.
>> That's because we played them with passion and heart, which to us,
>> matters more than the gear we choose to use.
>>
>
>
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Les,
Thanks for the write up on his gear! I'd really like to see him play
someday.
Bill Aqua
--- In , Leslie Fradkin <lfradkin@e...>
wrote:
> Supertwang,
>
> "I'm still going to have to disagree with you as far as how
important
> > strings are to one's sound."
>
> I do not disagree with you on how important strings are to one's
sound.
> I simply said that I can't use heavy strings to get MY sound. I
don't
> doubt that heavy strings contribute very much to the sound you
prefer.
>
> "That's really cool your playing with Eddie. Could you tell us what
> > kind of gear he's using lately? Does he still use the Jaguar? "
>
> On to Eddie's gear. He likes to play Strats with 010 guage and
modified
> pickups, usually EMG's. Pickup noise drives him crazy, as it does
> distract from his tone. He, to my knowledge, no longer uses the
Jaguar.
> I'm not sure if he still owns it, because I've not seen it when
I've
> been over to his house. He has a lot of guitars, mostly, Fender
Strats.
> But he still owns the Showman rig from those days although he
nows
> likes to play with two Fender Quad Reverb Amps (4-12"'s in each).
He
> also plays thru rack gear, usually, some kind of tube preamp to
warm up
> the sound. I'll ask him what brand it is. He brought a lot of gear
to
> the Phil Dirt KFJC show that we did in June 1999. We needed a whole
> SUV, just for his stuff! :-)
>
> "That's great that you are trying to navigate into some new sonic
> > territories. However, I've heard Eddie's newer version of "Mr.
> > Rebel" (the on that Phil Tiki posted for us all to hear) and I
have
> > to say it pales in comparison to the original."
>
> Your statement contradicts itself. Eddie & I both believe in
uncharted
> territory. That philosophy is one of the prime reasons he's doing
this
> project with me. We do his old hits live, BTW. We just update them
a
> little bit for modern ears. We performed "Mr. Rebel" and "Squadcar"
at
> the KFJC show. They were extremely well received and sounded great.
> That's because we played them with passion and heart, which to us,
> matters more than the gear we choose to use.
>
> "I guess I'm a sucker
> > for that old surf tone."
>
> I love it as well.
>
> "You sound like yourself on all the guitars you try because your
> > sound just might not be that "old surf sound." "
>
> You're absolutely right! I don't want to sound like the old surf
bands.
> That turf is best left to them IMHO.
>
> My CD's prove your point. I just haven't done it with heavy
strings. In
> fact, if I had, I'd sound just like the old surf bands. Which,
IMHO,
> would be pointless.
>
>
> Regards,
> Les
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 06:39 PM, supertwangreverb wrote:
>
> >
> >> Well, Eddie Bertrand plays with me on my new CD's so the scoop is
> > that
> >> he now plays with 010's. And he sounds the same (when he wants
to)
> > as
> >> he ever did in the old days. Eddie and I have discussed this ad
> >> nauseum. Mostly, we're after new sonic territory which should be
> >> obvious to all who hear what we've done.
> >
> > Les,
> > That's really cool your playing with Eddie. Could you tell us
what
> > kind of gear he's using lately? Does he still use the Jaguar?
> > That's great that you are trying to navigate into some new sonic
> > territories. However, I've heard Eddie's newer version of "Mr.
> > Rebel" (the on that Phil Tiki posted for us all to hear) and I
have
> > to say it pales in comparison to the original. I guess I'm a
sucker
> > for that old surf tone. I think there are alot of places one can
go
> > with that sound that haven't been explored yet. The Treblemakers
are
> > a band that come to mind when I think of a newer band that sounds
> > sonically like the older bands.
> >
> >
> > I'm still going to have to disagree with you as far as how
important
> > strings are to one's sound. I'd really like to hear Eddie playing
> > his old hits with the lighter strings, and I can only imagine what
> > James Burton would sound like trying to chicken pick on my Jaguar
> > strung with flatwound 13s(obviouly better than me). I do agree
90% of
> > our sound comes from our hands but strings play a pretty big part
in
> > it. You sound like yourself on all the guitars you try because
your
> > sound just might not be that "old surf sound." You said yourself
yo
> > can't get the sound you want out of flatwound 13s.
> >
> > Bill Aqua
> > www.freewebs.com/reluctantaquanauts
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> "For example Dick Dale's "Night Rider" that just sounds right
being
> >> double picked on heavy strings being forced through a reverb
tank."
> >>
> >> You're right, Dick gets a very large tone on that tune. But
that's
> > his
> >> sound. If I copied it, there would be little reason for the likes
> > of me
> >> in instro circles.
> >>
> >> " I've always thought that the guitarists who I enjoy that use
> > lighter
> >> strings have a weaker sound than those I listen to who use
heavier
> >> strings."
> >>
> >> It depends on your specific taste. We gravitate toward defending
> > that
> >> which we admire. We perceive our perceptions. By taking Dick's
> > double
> >> picking and mixing it up with neo-classical riffing from
Pagannini,
> >> Mozart, Bach and Yngwie, I've moved into my own turf (...err,
surf)
> >> with what I'm doing. Blend that in with Ventures melodicism and a
> > dash
> >> of Jeff Beck and you've got what I'm doing. The shift and
sacrifice
> > to
> >> accomodate all these things at once makes heavy strings for me a
> >> non-starter. For someone who likes the older trad style, heavy is
> > the
> >> way to go for nailing that sound. For my sound, quite the
opposite.
> >>
> >> "I agree, alot of tone does come from your hands, but still I
> > cannot
> >> imagine some surf songs sounding the same on lighter strings."
> >>
> >> I sound the same no matter which guitar I use and generally,
> > regardless
> >> of type of string. This is because I have my own sound. As does
> > Dick
> >> who picked up MY guitar that night in Denver and sounded the same
> > on
> >> mine as he does on his.My setup was, arguably, less suitable for
> > his
> >> level of hand attack but that's because he needs that big string
to
> >> acheive the sound HE'S after. (Of course, he broke a string
> > trying,
> >> but I forgave him for that! :-) I do prefer nickel wound because
> > they
> >> last and don't exaggerate finger noise. (Fender 150's to be
exact.)
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Les
> >>
> >>
> >> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 03:02 PM, supertwangreverb
wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> Dear Supertwang,
> >>>> I swapped strings to get lighter sets as well. That became
> >>> especially
> >>>> important as the 60's moved along and blusier styles took hold.
> >>>>
> >>>> Like I said in another post, my palm muting skill (which I
> > learned
> >>> thru
> >>>> many years of messing about with pedal steel guitar) has served
> > me
> >>> well
> >>>> in achieving very fast double picking speeds on lighter
strings.
> >>> This
> >>>> was necessary to do both surf technique and bending on the same
> >>> guitar.
> >>>> I also use knuckle blocking for keeping strings under control
at
> >>> those
> >>>> speeds.
> >>>
> >>> That's pretty good that you can do that Les. I agree, alot of
> > tone
> >>> does come from your hands, but still I cannot imagine some surf
> > songs
> >>> sounding the same on lighter strings. For example Dick
> > Dale's "Night
> >>> Rider" that just sounds right being double picked on heavy
strings
> >>> being forced through a reverb tank. Also alot of Eddie Bertrand
> >>> stuff. For example his solos on "Scratch" would sound different
> > with
> >>> lighter strings. As much as you can say that tone comes from
ones
> >>> hands there is something to be said for using heavy strings and
> >>> hitting them hard, exspecially in the surf genre. I've always
> >>> thought that the guitarists who I enjoy that use lighter strings
> > have
> >>> a weaker sound than those I listen to who use heavier strings.
I
> >>> love James Burton and his playing was ahead of its time,
however,
> > his
> >>> tone wasn't really all that great. But that's just an opinion I
> >>> guess.
> >>>
> >>> Bill Aqua
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> .
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