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Okay, here's some question fors everyone. I like my reverb tank
turned up to the following settings: 6-6-6 (Satan's number!)
While the sound is fat-city, it's also muddy. I am compensating
by boosting the mid-range on my amp and using only the bridge
pickup on my Jazzmaster. I lose some volume on the reberb,
too, but this is no longer a problem now that I have the Twin
Reverb.
Question 1: will I be better off running less reverb on stage?
Question 2: Where do you set your reverb tank?
Question 3: I give up hum-cancelling when I switch to the bridge
pickup. Will 60-cycle hum present a problem in a live setting? Or
does it get buried with the other instruments?
Question 4: Recognizing that different setups result in different
settings and tones, I'd still like to hear what equipment y'all are
using, and your "standard settings," and what type of sound you
are after...I am taking my tone cues lately from the reformed
Atlantics. (i.e., Less reverb, some distortion on the fast numbers,
and slap-back echo via a pedal).
My perspective on Gavin's questions:
1. You just have to experiment with the tank, it's going to sound different in
different rooms. 6-6-6 is a good place to start.
2. I generally have to set the tank as far away from the drummer as possible to
avoid too much crashing. The Halibuts and Lave Rats hang their tanks on bungy
chords.
3. On the technical side, you're probably not getting a 60 cycle hum from your
pick-up. That's a low bass frequency. But I do know the noise you are getting
and yes, it's usually covered up by the band and it can be reduced depending on
where you stand.
4. I use Fender guitars and amps and start with the 6-6-6 setting on the Tank
and change the setting for tunes that need less reverb.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Gavin Ehringer
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 9:26 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Tone death...
Okay, here's some question fors everyone. I like my reverb tank
turned up to the following settings: 6-6-6 (Satan's number!)
While the sound is fat-city, it's also muddy. I am compensating
by boosting the mid-range on my amp and using only the bridge
pickup on my Jazzmaster. I lose some volume on the reberb,
too, but this is no longer a problem now that I have the Twin
Reverb.
Question 1: will I be better off running less reverb on stage?
Question 2: Where do you set your reverb tank?
Question 3: I give up hum-cancelling when I switch to the bridge
pickup. Will 60-cycle hum present a problem in a live setting? Or
does it get buried with the other instruments?
Question 4: Recognizing that different setups result in different
settings and tones, I'd still like to hear what equipment y'all are
using, and your "standard settings," and what type of sound you
are after...I am taking my tone cues lately from the reformed
Atlantics. (i.e., Less reverb, some distortion on the fast numbers,
and slap-back echo via a pedal).
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Before I respond to the questions, I have to wonder what settings you
use on your amp that your tank can possibly sound muddy? I don't
hardly edge my tone past 5 on my tank, and keep the bass on my
showman at seven.
> Question 1: will I be better off running less reverb on stage?
It depends on what volume you're playing at -- I've found that
the louder I play, the lower I put the "mixer" knob. But when my amp
is down around 3 (which it seldom is), I put the mix up to 10.
> Question 2: Where do you set your reverb tank?
For an average show, I have dwell at 4.5, mixer at 7, and tone
at 5.5.
> Question 3: I give up hum-cancelling when I switch to the bridge
> pickup. Will 60-cycle hum present a problem in a live setting? Or
> does it get buried with the other instruments?
Generally, any hum from the guitar will be masked by the
notes you're playing when you're actually going for it. Just turn
your volume down between songs.
> Question 4: Recognizing that different setups result in different
> settings and tones, I'd still like to hear what equipment y'all are
> using, and your "standard settings," and what type of sound you
> are after...I am taking my tone cues lately from the reformed
> Atlantics. (i.e., Less reverb, some distortion on the fast numbers,
> and slap-back echo via a pedal).
Right now "the Lava Rat sound" comes from this combination --
Usually a Japanese "Excellent" Mosrite (but switch in any guitar you
want,)a Danelectro Daddy-O overdrive for when I need a little
extra "kick", keeping the volume setting of the pedal around 7 or 8
and the drive no more than about two to achieve more boost than
distortion. Danelectro Dan-Echo digital delay, which I use sparingly
for long-repeat settings, and on a FEW songs, a slap-echo to fill out
some space, and a Dano Cool Cat Chorus, which I basically only use to
emulate an organ sound. I use the stock Vibrato (yeah, I know it's
really tremolo) on my Dual Showman, and put the volume around 5 or 6,
treble around 6, mid at 5, and bass at 7.
But then again, that's just my personal take on getting a good "surf
tone" that has a bit more modern, progressive sound at times.
Also, as Marty mentioned, I keep my tank suspended from a walker
using a bungee chord, which not only keeps the tank from making
excess noise, but also provides for hellaciously huge tank crashes
when I need it.
~Bill~
Wow! Bill, thanks for the in-depth reply.
Gavin
--- In , "Bill Bergstrom" <
swingin_cat@h...> wrote:
> Before I respond to the questions, I have to wonder what
settings you
> use on your amp that your tank can possibly sound muddy? I
don't
> hardly edge my tone past 5 on my tank, and keep the bass on
my
> showman at seven.
>
> > Question 1: will I be better off running less reverb on stage?
> It depends on what volume you're playing at -- I've found
that
> the louder I play, the lower I put the "mixer" knob. But when my
amp
> is down around 3 (which it seldom is), I put the mix up to 10.
>
> > Question 2: Where do you set your reverb tank?
> For an average show, I have dwell at 4.5, mixer at 7, and
tone
> at 5.5.
>
> > Question 3: I give up hum-cancelling when I switch to the
bridge
> > pickup. Will 60-cycle hum present a problem in a live
setting? Or
> > does it get buried with the other instruments?
> Generally, any hum from the guitar will be masked by the
> notes you're playing when you're actually going for it. Just turn
> your volume down between songs.
>
> > Question 4: Recognizing that different setups result in
different
> > settings and tones, I'd still like to hear what equipment y'all
are
> > using, and your "standard settings," and what type of sound
you
> > are after...I am taking my tone cues lately from the reformed
> > Atlantics. (i.e., Less reverb, some distortion on the fast
numbers,
> > and slap-back echo via a pedal).
> Right now "the Lava Rat sound" comes from this
combination --
> Usually a Japanese "Excellent" Mosrite (but switch in any
guitar you
> want,)a Danelectro Daddy-O overdrive for when I need a little
> extra "kick", keeping the volume setting of the pedal around 7
or 8
> and the drive no more than about two to achieve more boost
than
> distortion. Danelectro Dan-Echo digital delay, which I use
sparingly
> for long-repeat settings, and on a FEW songs, a slap-echo to
fill out
> some space, and a Dano Cool Cat Chorus, which I basically
only use to
> emulate an organ sound. I use the stock Vibrato (yeah, I know
it's
> really tremolo) on my Dual Showman, and put the volume
around 5 or 6,
> treble around 6, mid at 5, and bass at 7.
>
> But then again, that's just my personal take on getting a good
"surf
> tone" that has a bit more modern, progressive sound at times.
>
> Also, as Marty mentioned, I keep my tank suspended from a
walker
> using a bungee chord, which not only keeps the tank from
making
> excess noise, but also provides for hellaciously huge tank
crashes
> when I need it.
>
> ~Bill~
Gavin:
I utilize Fender RI reverb dialed on "Satan's Number"
(6-6-6)...
60 cycle hum is a problem sometimes, I use a in-line power
conditioner/surge protector... I am thinking of using a
"ground-loop" eliminator soon...
I have used the old "Blue Tube" preamp between the reverb
unit and the fender bassman head...for a litle more
"bite"...but lately I have been leaving the blue tube at
home.
that's it for my guitar setup...
now bass...well, that's another story...
dp
--- Gavin Ehringer <> wrote:
> Okay, here's some question fors everyone. I like my
> reverb tank
> turned up to the following settings: 6-6-6 (Satan's
> number!)
> While the sound is fat-city, it's also muddy. I am
> compensating
> by boosting the mid-range on my amp and using only the
> bridge
> pickup on my Jazzmaster. I lose some volume on the
> reberb,
> too, but this is no longer a problem now that I have the
> Twin
> Reverb.
>
> Question 1: will I be better off running less reverb on
> stage?
>
> Question 2: Where do you set your reverb tank?
>
> Question 3: I give up hum-cancelling when I switch to the
> bridge
> pickup. Will 60-cycle hum present a problem in a live
> setting? Or
> does it get buried with the other instruments?
>
> Question 4: Recognizing that different setups result in
> different
> settings and tones, I'd still like to hear what equipment
> y'all are
> using, and your "standard settings," and what type of
> sound you
> are after...I am taking my tone cues lately from the
> reformed
> Atlantics. (i.e., Less reverb, some distortion on the
> fast numbers,
> and slap-back echo via a pedal).
>
>
>
>
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To help with hum problems when using Fender Reverb tanks, first, no ground pin
on the tank! A guitar rig should have a total of one ground for the entire
system. They put ground pins on reissue tanks now for electrical codes required
by UL, etc., but you will never use a reverb tank without an amp so you don't
need another ground pin. Secondly, the reverb tank itself has single coil
pickups insind that are connected to the springs. When you have a noise problem,
try to move the Reverb Unit 45 degrees and check if you can eliminate the buzz.
It's the same as when move your guitar with single coils and the hum gets
quieter.
chillin in Glasgow - back to LA in the AM,
-dave
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Very interesting Dave,
So the two prong plug on my vintage reverb tank is fine? Everyone
has recommended me to have that changed for safty reasons. Should I
plug the tank into my Super Reverb or into a seperate wall socket?
Bill
--- In , dave wronski <stickmandw@y...>
wrote:
> To help with hum problems when using Fender Reverb tanks, first,
no ground pin on the tank! A guitar rig should have a total of one
ground for the entire system. They put ground pins on reissue tanks
now for electrical codes required by UL, etc., but you will never
use a reverb tank without an amp so you don't need another ground
pin. Secondly, the reverb tank itself has single coil pickups insind
that are connected to the springs. When you have a noise problem,
try to move the Reverb Unit 45 degrees and check if you can
eliminate the buzz. It's the same as when move your guitar with
single coils and the hum gets quieter.
> chillin in Glasgow - back to LA in the AM,
> -dave
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Because your reverb unit is "plugged in" to your amp w/ an instrument
cord, it is grounded by amp wall plug anyway...that is, unless you
live in my building which isn't properly grounded because it's old
(S.F.) I pick up every mexican radio station in CA on my reverb unit
and it has (3) plugs. I have yet to find an inexpensive solution to
this problem. Plus I'm in the haight within close proximity to Sutro
Towers...any ideas?
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> Very interesting Dave,
>
> So the two prong plug on my vintage reverb tank is fine? Everyone
> has recommended me to have that changed for safty reasons. Should
I
> plug the tank into my Super Reverb or into a seperate wall socket?
>
> Bill
>
> --- In , dave wronski
<stickmandw@y...>
> wrote:
> > To help with hum problems when using Fender Reverb tanks, first,
> no ground pin on the tank! A guitar rig should have a total of one
> ground for the entire system. They put ground pins on reissue tanks
> now for electrical codes required by UL, etc., but you will never
> use a reverb tank without an amp so you don't need another ground
> pin. Secondly, the reverb tank itself has single coil pickups
insind
> that are connected to the springs. When you have a noise problem,
> try to move the Reverb Unit 45 degrees and check if you can
> eliminate the buzz. It's the same as when move your guitar with
> single coils and the hum gets quieter.
> > chillin in Glasgow - back to LA in the AM,
> > -dave
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brian,
So you plug the power cord from your reverb tank straight into your
amp?
Bill
--- In , "Brian Schultz" <brians@m...>
wrote:
> Because your reverb unit is "plugged in" to your amp w/ an
instrument
> cord, it is grounded by amp wall plug anyway...that is, unless you
> live in my building which isn't properly grounded because it's old
> (S.F.) I pick up every mexican radio station in CA on my reverb
unit
> and it has (3) plugs. I have yet to find an inexpensive solution
to
> this problem. Plus I'm in the haight within close proximity to
Sutro
> Towers...any ideas?
>
> --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> > Very interesting Dave,
> >
> > So the two prong plug on my vintage reverb tank is fine?
Everyone
> > has recommended me to have that changed for safty reasons.
Should
> I
> > plug the tank into my Super Reverb or into a seperate wall
socket?
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > --- In , dave wronski
> <stickmandw@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > To help with hum problems when using Fender Reverb tanks,
first,
> > no ground pin on the tank! A guitar rig should have a total of
one
> > ground for the entire system. They put ground pins on reissue
tanks
> > now for electrical codes required by UL, etc., but you will
never
> > use a reverb tank without an amp so you don't need another
ground
> > pin. Secondly, the reverb tank itself has single coil pickups
> insind
> > that are connected to the springs. When you have a noise
problem,
> > try to move the Reverb Unit 45 degrees and check if you can
> > eliminate the buzz. It's the same as when move your guitar with
> > single coils and the hum gets quieter.
> > > chillin in Glasgow - back to LA in the AM,
> > > -dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill,
I never want to speak for Dave Wronski... :) , but I think what he
is saying is that if you have a ground plug on your tank AND on your
amp, you have the potential (pun intended) for a ground loop. This
could happen if you plug your amp into one outlet and your tank into
another, and the two outlets were not using the same physical ground
path.
I am not an electrician, nor do I play one on TV, so I won't comment
on the merits of removing the ground (third) plug from your tank.
But I think Dave is right, since you never use the tank by itself
(!) you will be grounded by virtue of your amp. If you have an old
Fender amp, like your Super, you could plug your tank into it (but
then again your amp probably has a 2 prong outlet) to keep
everything on the same path.
It looks like one would need to remove the ground plug on the tank.
But don't quote me on that, please consult an electrician to be
safe. Either that, or always plug your reverb unit into the same
outlet that you plug your amp into to get the same ground.
Another source of hum with the reissue reverb units is the
footswitch cable. Bruce from the Cocktail Preachers posted a
document in the file area which explains how to fix that.
(Unfortunately its a MS-WORD document, but I can convert it if there
is interest). Or simply disconnect the footswitch.
BN
Some follow-ups come to mind immediately:
> ...if you have a ground plug on your tank AND on your
> amp, you have the potential (pun intended) for a ground loop. This
> could happen if you plug your amp into one outlet and your tank
into
> another, and the two outlets were not using the same physical
ground
> path.
This scenario I described above should not normally happen. If it
does, the venue has crappy (and dangerous) wiring, and you may get
shocked if you grab your guitar strings and, say, a mic stand. All
of the outlets should (in a perfect world) have their grounds at the
same potential.
> I am not an electrician, nor do I play one on TV, so I won't
comment
> on the merits of removing the ground (third) plug from your tank.
> But I think Dave is right, since you never use the tank by itself
> (!) you will be grounded by virtue of your amp. If you have an old
> Fender amp, like your Super, you could plug your tank into it (but
> then again your amp probably has a 2 prong outlet) to keep
> everything on the same path.
>
All of this hinges on the fact that your Super does indeed have a 3
prong power cord. If it doesn't, get one!!!
(BTW, I saw Dick Dale get a zap when he grabbed the mic stand while
holding onto this guitar (touching the strings). He was using his
Showman amps WITH their original 2 prong cords!! His roadie had to
flip that 2 position ground switch on the back of the amp to fix
that problem. That switch becomes obsolete when you get a 3 prong
cord).
Again, all of this becomes a moot issue if you plug your 3 prong amp
AND your 3 prong reverb unit into the same outlet box. Hope that
helps.
BN
Yeah, It ain't no fun when you have sparks flying out of your mouth when you
speak in the microphone. Been there done that..................
Billy
>
> From: "Brian Neal" <>
> Date: 2004/07/26 Mon PM 08:30:00 EDT
> To:
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Tone death...
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brian,
My super has a a 3 prong cord, my reverb tank has the 2 prong.
--- In , "Brian Neal" <bneal@i...> wrote:
> Some follow-ups come to mind immediately:
>
> > ...if you have a ground plug on your tank AND on your
> > amp, you have the potential (pun intended) for a ground loop.
This
> > could happen if you plug your amp into one outlet and your tank
> into
> > another, and the two outlets were not using the same physical
> ground
> > path.
>
> This scenario I described above should not normally happen. If it
> does, the venue has crappy (and dangerous) wiring, and you may get
> shocked if you grab your guitar strings and, say, a mic stand. All
> of the outlets should (in a perfect world) have their grounds at
the
> same potential.
>
> > I am not an electrician, nor do I play one on TV, so I won't
> comment
> > on the merits of removing the ground (third) plug from your tank.
> > But I think Dave is right, since you never use the tank by itself
> > (!) you will be grounded by virtue of your amp. If you have an
old
> > Fender amp, like your Super, you could plug your tank into it
(but
> > then again your amp probably has a 2 prong outlet) to keep
> > everything on the same path.
> >
>
> All of this hinges on the fact that your Super does indeed have a 3
> prong power cord. If it doesn't, get one!!!
>
> (BTW, I saw Dick Dale get a zap when he grabbed the mic stand while
> holding onto this guitar (touching the strings). He was using his
> Showman amps WITH their original 2 prong cords!! His roadie had to
> flip that 2 position ground switch on the back of the amp to fix
> that problem. That switch becomes obsolete when you get a 3 prong
> cord).
>
> Again, all of this becomes a moot issue if you plug your 3 prong
amp
> AND your 3 prong reverb unit into the same outlet box. Hope that
> helps.
>
> BN
...or, it seems like you could use one of those three prong
to two prong adapter things...you can find them at True
Value Hardware or Radio Shack, I bet.
dp
--- Brian Neal <> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I never want to speak for Dave Wronski... :) , but I
> think what he
> is saying is that if you have a ground plug on your tank
> AND on your
> amp, you have the potential (pun intended) for a ground
> loop. This
> could happen if you plug your amp into one outlet and
> your tank into
> another, and the two outlets were not using the same
> physical ground
> path.
>
> I am not an electrician, nor do I play one on TV, so I
> won't comment
> on the merits of removing the ground (third) plug from
> your tank.
> But I think Dave is right, since you never use the tank
> by itself
> (!) you will be grounded by virtue of your amp. If you
> have an old
> Fender amp, like your Super, you could plug your tank
> into it (but
> then again your amp probably has a 2 prong outlet) to
> keep
> everything on the same path.
>
> It looks like one would need to remove the ground plug on
> the tank.
> But don't quote me on that, please consult an electrician
> to be
> safe. Either that, or always plug your reverb unit into
> the same
> outlet that you plug your amp into to get the same
> ground.
>
> Another source of hum with the reissue reverb units is
> the
> footswitch cable. Bruce from the Cocktail Preachers
> posted a
> document in the file area which explains how to fix that.
>
> (Unfortunately its a MS-WORD document, but I can convert
> it if there
> is interest). Or simply disconnect the footswitch.
>
> BN
>
>
>
>
>
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> --------------------~-->
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> Artists!
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>
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If you don't want to mess with changing the AC cord on
a vintage amp with a two prong plug, make it safe with
a wire attached under one of the metal straps on top
of a Fender amp, and an AC plug at the other end with
the wire connected to the GROUND pin ONLY!. Plug this
in along with the 2-prong POWER cord, and you will be
grounded.
If you use equipment with only a 2-prong AC cord,
figure out {before you get to the gig} which way to
plug it in
with the POLARITY SWITCH in a position you will not
change, that has the least amount of hum/shock
potential, then MARK the plug so you know which way to
plug it in for the future. I use a Sharpie pen to mark
the side that will be closest to the ground hole on
the wall outlet. All this is dependent upon the wiring
of the wall outlet to be the same as where you first
made the test. Get a yellow polarity/wiring tester
from Radio Shack so you can see if the
bar/dive/girlfriend's house is wired to code.
Remember, only one ground pin in a system
-Reverb-Echoplex-Amp. The amp is the obvious choice
for using a ground pin. Redundant {more than one}
ground pins causes hum.
What happened to DD when he touched that mic was the
polarizing capacitor in that Showman emptied itself
into his lip, and, or, hand. Heads should roll! Before
you apply a body part to a mic/guitar combination,
while not touching any metal parts of the guitar,
touch the guitar strings to the mic, and watch for
sparks. No sparks, no shock potential.
-dave
> All of this hinges on the fact that your Super does
> indeed have a 3
> prong power cord. If it doesn't, get one!!!
>
> (BTW, I saw Dick Dale get a zap when he grabbed the
> mic stand while
> holding onto this guitar (touching the strings). He
> was using his
> Showman amps WITH their original 2 prong cords!! His
> roadie had to
> flip that 2 position ground switch on the back of
> the amp to fix
> that problem. That switch becomes obsolete when you
> get a 3 prong
> cord).
>
>
>
>
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