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I've asked around about this and the general consensus is that if you
are using a soundman and a PA, your stage volume needs to be as low
as possible. What has been your experience with soundmen and stage
volume?
Scott
All sound men HATE loud stage volume. This is one of the main reasons
why I have gotten into using things like compression to get sustain at
low levels.
Les Fradkin
On Sunday, June 20, 2004, at 06:04 PM, scottgun00 wrote:
> I've asked around about this and the general consensus is that if you
> are using a soundman and a PA, your stage volume needs to be as low
> as possible. What has been your experience with soundmen and stage
> volume?
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
> .
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Ahh, the soundman request..."can you turn down?!" IMHO, guitar amps
need to be at a certain volume to get the character of the amp to
sound through. Most amps need to be at a "reasonable" (louder than
some soundmen like) volume to let their character shine through.
Here's some solutions I found helpful:
1. Aim the amp across the stage, rather than pointing at the
audience, that way there is less interference with the PA volume,
plus it acts as a great monitor for you.
2. Use a small amp that you can drive at max. Great tone without
the volume.
Mike/USK
--- In , "scottgun00" <scottw@q...>
wrote:
> I've asked around about this and the general consensus is that if
you
> are using a soundman and a PA, your stage volume needs to be as
low
> as possible. What has been your experience with soundmen and stage
> volume?
>
>
>
> Scott
Scott:
I believe that stage volume should match the drummers
volume level, at least.
Also, the volume of your stage monitors should be to your
liking...not the sound man's!
Overall, all the soundguy does is make sure there is no
heinous distortion or obviously unbalanced sound out
front...the stage should be the band's realm...
I don't know...but I think a slightly louder stage volume
tends to drive a band onwards to a better performance...if
a band sounds good to itself, I believe it shows in their
performance...
my two pennies...
dp
--- scottgun00 <> wrote:
> I've asked around about this and the general consensus is
> that if you
> are using a soundman and a PA, your stage volume needs to
> be as low
> as possible. What has been your experience with soundmen
> and stage
> volume?
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
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Scott:
I believe that stage volume should match the drummers
volume level, at least.
Also, the volume of your stage monitors should be to your
liking...not the sound man's!
Overall, all the soundguy does is make sure there is no
heinous distortion or obviously unbalanced sound out
front...the stage should be the band's realm...
I don't know...but I think a slightly louder stage volume
tends to drive a band onwards to a better performance...if
a band sounds good to itself, I believe it shows in their
performance...
my two pennies...
dp
--- scottgun00 <> wrote:
> I've asked around about this and the general consensus is
> that if you
> are using a soundman and a PA, your stage volume needs to
> be as low
> as possible. What has been your experience with soundmen
> and stage
> volume?
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
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I agree with DP, but monitors are the key for the band!
You need a trusty sound man to assure the sound is right on the mains and
then keep the volume on the monitors cranked to each players liking.
The important thing is that band members can hear eachother and you are not
getting feed back.
Splash, rick!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rick,
I am sorry if I made it sound like stage monitoring was
unimportant...
Stage monitors are TOTALLY important..
So important that you need to be ready to "stand your
ground" with a soundperson...but, don't forget to be
polite!
:) keep rockin'
dp
--- "Johnston, Rick" <>
wrote:
> I agree with DP, but monitors are the key for the band!
>
> You need a trusty sound man to assure the sound is right
> on the mains and
> then keep the volume on the monitors cranked to each
> players liking.
>
> The important thing is that band members can hear
> eachother and you are not
> getting feed back.
>
>
> Splash, rick!
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Not at all bro, I was just piggy backing on your point! I was at a gig
this weekend where the stage was so small that they couldn't get the guitars
or vocals high enough to be heard and they ended up playing at rediculas low
volume. Having the band all packed in to a corder with monitors up in their
face was causing horrible feed back and just killing the sound.
The sound guy was struggling so much with the frusterated musicians and
their monitors that even the mains weren't pushing out any volume. It was
kind of like hearing a Surf trio with rediculas low volume on the guitar,
totally defeating the purpose!
This was a Punk gig and there's a good reason they never did a Black Flag
unplugged CD! LOL
The war for stage volume wages on, but let the band have the final say or
may be do one of those sound check things??? smile
Cutting back atcha, Rick!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As someone who has both played and done sound, the sound man's job
is really to maintain a balance between instruments and vocals, and
even with an instrumental band, highlight solos and hook lines that
people need to hear to recognize a song. When vocal harmonies are
involved, it's an even harder job to get an acceptable blend, as all
singers do not project with the same volume. Ideally, all
instruments should be miked, and try to be balanced on stage so the
players can hear each other and key on what others are playing, and
the sound thru the mains that the audience hears should really be
the job of the person at the sound board....IMHO --- In, DP <noetical1@y...> wrote:
> Rick,
>
> I am sorry if I made it sound like stage monitoring was
> unimportant...
>
> Stage monitors are TOTALLY important..
>
> So important that you need to be ready to "stand your
> ground" with a soundperson...but, don't forget to be
> polite!
>
> :) keep rockin'
>
> dp
>
> --- "Johnston, Rick" <rick.johnston@u...>
> wrote:
> > I agree with DP, but monitors are the key for the band!
> >
> > You need a trusty sound man to assure the sound is right
> > on the mains and
> > then keep the volume on the monitors cranked to each
> > players liking.
> >
> > The important thing is that band members can hear
> > eachother and you are not
> > getting feed back.
> >
> >
> > Splash, rick!
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Music that listens to you.
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Los Straightjackets have in their contract rider, "No Monitors". Even when they
play 20,000+ venues with Tom Petty, etc., "No Monitors". They even ask to have
them removed from the stage so no one gets tempted. After you've been screwed
over a few times by "Sound Engineers" it's easy to see how they could go to
these lengths.
There is also a problem with "phase". If you your guitar amp speaker begins it's
first movement by moving towards the grill cloth, and the monitor speaker is
doing the same while pointing the opposite way, they will tend to cancel each
other out which makes everybody try to turn both up that causes more problems. I
have just installed a phase switch in my tour amp that can help correct the
problem.
-dave
"Johnston, Rick" <> wrote:I agree with DP, but
monitors are the key for the band!
You need a trusty sound man to assure the sound is right on the mains and
then keep the volume on the monitors cranked to each players liking.
The important thing is that band members can hear eachother and you are not
getting feed back.
Splash, rick!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
..
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No monitors sounds like a good way to go for an instro band. I like the Ventures
set up of the '60's. they had no monitors as well and the guitar bass and drums
all set up on one side of the drummer. I've tried it and it cuts down on the
problem of the guitars and bass not hearing each other.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: dave wronski
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 6:00 AM
Subject: RE: [SurfGuitar101] stage volume question
Los Straightjackets have in their contract rider, "No Monitors". Even when
they play 20,000+ venues with Tom Petty, etc., "No Monitors". They even ask to
have them removed from the stage so no one gets tempted. After you've been
screwed over a few times by "Sound Engineers" it's easy to see how they could go
to these lengths.
There is also a problem with "phase". If you your guitar amp speaker begins
it's first movement by moving towards the grill cloth, and the monitor speaker
is doing the same while pointing the opposite way, they will tend to cancel each
other out which makes everybody try to turn both up that causes more problems. I
have just installed a phase switch in my tour amp that can help correct the
problem.
-dave
"Johnston, Rick" <> wrote:I agree with DP,
but monitors are the key for the band!
You need a trusty sound man to assure the sound is right on the mains and
then keep the volume on the monitors cranked to each players liking.
The important thing is that band members can hear eachother and you are not
getting feed back.
Splash, rick!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
..
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We generally set up so we can hear each other's amps, and the kit.
No monitors needed here either. I find that the sound comin' outta
most monitors suck anyways (blown speakers)... but I haven't played
to 20 000 people either.
Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dave wronski
>
> Los Straightjackets have in their contract rider, "No Monitors".
> Even when they play 20,000+ venues with Tom Petty, etc., "No
> Monitors". They even ask to have them removed from the stage so
> no one gets tempted. After you've been screwed over a few times
> by "Sound Engineers" it's easy to see how they could go to these lengths.
I saw this happen at a LS gig. They were just setting up before their set
when the sound guy approached them. Both Danny and Eddie said they wanted no
monitors, and even asked the sound guy if they could get them off the stage.
The sound guy had a very puzzled look on his face but he agreed and he
removed the front monitors. After the first song Pete started making the
"slit your throat" hand sign and pointed to a monitor that was behind the
drummer. Danny then asked the sound guy to kill it from the stage.
They didn't seem to point their amps inward or anything, so I always
wondered if the 2 guitars could hear each other. The bass amp was right
behind the drummer, as he usually sets up towards the front of the stage
with Pete playing bass in back.
BN
I found this thread very interesting, particularly since my band is
coming together and I assumed we'd need the full powered
mixer, backline and monitors. I was heartened by Dave
Wronski's input and will be eager to try our stage setup in the
way he prescribed. I like the idea of a simplified system...after
all, the early surf bands had nothing but their amps in the
backline and maybe a microphone and p.a. to announce the
songs.
Question: can you get an acceptable volume and balance with
just the instruments and amps (i.e. an 85 watt Fender or two,
100 watt bass amp, and drums?) For an average club, how
much power do you need for a power mixer and speakers? Can
a band do away with a sound man?
Very curious.
Gavin
>
> BN
No monitors, never. In my former bands with vocals we only wanted
vocals on the monitor, nothing else.
as for hearing eachother: with a thought out set-up, you can hear
eachother. lead and bass half behind the kit. 2nd guitar next to the
bass. I sometimes have trouble hearing the 2nd guitar (playing lead)
but it's not really necessary, and the win is more then the loss.
volume: with 4x6L6 amps you have plenty, plenty volume, with the drum
low in the mix. We've played to 150 people in a 20 by 15 yards hall
and had to turn down. I've seen the Nebulas fill out a hall at least
twice as large without a PA, and they were earshredding loud.
(showman, twin and i guess bassman)
If you have to invest, get a small second amp for the lead and A/B it
so you get a bit of lead to the other side of the stage, helps
spreading the sound. I used to do this when we played with Hammond
organ cause the Leslie was uhh, rather dominating on one side of the
stage.
Eitherway, a soundsystem in the affordable pricerange usually does
more bad then good, takes the spine out of the overall sound + you
have to turn the amps down below acceptable sound quality. Leave
those for the wedding singers...
my 2 cents
wannes
--- In , "Gavin Ehringer"
<gavinehringer@e...> wrote:
> I found this thread very interesting, particularly since my band is
> coming together and I assumed we'd need the full powered
> mixer, backline and monitors. I was heartened by Dave
> Wronski's input and will be eager to try our stage setup in the
> way he prescribed. I like the idea of a simplified system...after
> all, the early surf bands had nothing but their amps in the
> backline and maybe a microphone and p.a. to announce the
> songs.
>
> Question: can you get an acceptable volume and balance with
> just the instruments and amps (i.e. an 85 watt Fender or two,
> 100 watt bass amp, and drums?) For an average club, how
> much power do you need for a power mixer and speakers? Can
> a band do away with a sound man?
>
>
> Very curious.
>
> Gavin
>
>
>
>
> >
> > BN
In the Halibuts, we'd always try to avoid using the sound man,
especially small/medium sized clubs. We'd ask for a talking mic and
nothing more, sometimes not even that. Never used the monitors. Joe
(sax) was even bringing his own small PA to handle his own sound.
Early on, he played out of a mic plugged into a Showman. Some sound
guys like the night off, others are a little offended and force
themselves on you. Not much you can do then.
Sounds like Pete's still handling sound guys the same way in Los
Straitjackets.
Rick
Halibuts/Deoras
--- In , "Gavin Ehringer"
<gavinehringer@e...> wrote:
> I found this thread very interesting, particularly since my band is
> coming together and I assumed we'd need the full powered
> mixer, backline and monitors. I was heartened by Dave
> Wronski's input and will be eager to try our stage setup in the
> way he prescribed. I like the idea of a simplified system...after
> all, the early surf bands had nothing but their amps in the
> backline and maybe a microphone and p.a. to announce the
> songs.
>
> Question: can you get an acceptable volume and balance with
> just the instruments and amps (i.e. an 85 watt Fender or two,
> 100 watt bass amp, and drums?) For an average club, how
> much power do you need for a power mixer and speakers? Can
> a band do away with a sound man?
>
>
> Very curious.
>
> Gavin
>
>
>
>
> >
> > BN
I see surf bands play all the time with no pa or monitors.
It's just drums, and guitars and bass. The key is mix. Everyone has
to be able to hear themselves, and others, compared to the Volume of
the drums. Too often I will see shows with PA where the sound is god
awful. Just way too much Bass and Bass drum. If you do play a gig
with PA, make sure the mix the crowd hears is what you want the band
to sound like. And make sure the monitors are playing what you need
to hear. Many people don't realize some mixing boards can send certian
instruments to different monitors. For example if you play guitar,
you could ask for just drums and sax in you monitor, and get the
Bass and Rhythm from their amps they use.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , "Gavin Ehringer"
<gavinehringer@e...> wrote:
> I found this thread very interesting, particularly since my band is
> coming together and I assumed we'd need the full powered
> mixer, backline and monitors. I was heartened by Dave
> Wronski's input and will be eager to try our stage setup in the
> way he prescribed. I like the idea of a simplified system...after
> all, the early surf bands had nothing but their amps in the
> backline and maybe a microphone and p.a. to announce the
> songs.
>
> Question: can you get an acceptable volume and balance with
> just the instruments and amps (i.e. an 85 watt Fender or two,
> 100 watt bass amp, and drums?) For an average club, how
> much power do you need for a power mixer and speakers? Can
> a band do away with a sound man?
>
>
> Very curious.
>
> Gavin
>
>
>
>
> >
> > BN
