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Yahoo Group Archives » Page 46 »

Outdoor gig

gcm19482002 - 04 May 2004 07:53:51

Underground Fire did our first gig this weekend at an outdoor Street
Fair. We set up right in the middle of the street with no bandshell,
stage, anything. We did not use a PA. I used a Fender Cyber Deluxe,
which is a 1x12 combo amp. In that venue, the depth and body
disappeared from my tone. It sounded high and thin. Is this typical
for a 1x12 cab? I have a Hot Rod Deluxe also, which has an external
speaker output. I'm thinking that for any future outdoor gigs, I'll
have to get another speaker cabinet and use that amp. What
configuration would be best (2x12, 4x12)? The other solution would
be to patch my amp through a PA to beef up the sound. Anybody with
experience in outdoor gigs have any input here? Thanks
Greg

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Jerry (whipeoutboy63) - 04 May 2004 09:17:01

Hi,
We did a few outdoor gigs in the past two years.
I always used a way too big 4x12 cab, but as you said a 1x12 in the
middle of a street may sound a bit thin.
Our rythem guitarist had the exact same problem a while back. Although
we did play on an open "trailer" his guitar lost depth and body too. (he
used a Marshall 8080 combo then, not a bad amp at all IMHO)
He now switched over to a Twin reverb (pro tube) and his tone stays rich
and full.
Perhaps using an extra cab might do the trick.
I plan on using a 2x12 cab in the future, since the 4x12 is a "bit" over
the edge (besides being way too heavy and big...)
When you use a PA. system it doesn't really matter if you use
1x12"/2x12"/4x12", the sound system tends to "pump up" your sound (If
they're doing it right that is....)
And the thing is that you can't really compare an outdoor gig to an
indoor gig. The sound is so different. I now try to ignore the overall
sound when playing outdoor with P.A. If the folks don't run away, the
sound should be o.k. ;-) If it sounds o.k. on stage, then it should
work...hopefuly.
As it was mentioned before, most P.A. guys tend to "overdo" the kick
bass, I don't like that either. Bass outdoor with PA is also a difficult
thing, too loud and too deep. Makes the guitars drown. Luckily Instro
Surf is without vocals, since on small PA's that seams to be the biggest
problem. A constant "frequency" fight between the vocals and the
Guitars, especially if the PA is a bit to weak for the venue....
Anyway if that's the case, you can't go wrong with instro surf. I also
think that the bands overall performance matters when playing outdoor,
especially if it's a "walk on by" or a "free of charge" venue. Like a
street festival. The Hawaii shirts might do the trick, as some "Jack
Rabbit's Slim" movements. (Go-Go girls tend to be better though) and
ofcourse a good selection of songs.
Just try to think of it as BIG fun, outdoor in the sun, people passing
by, holding there paces to enjoy your band, not thinking of how it may
sound, after all it's real "live" music.... In the end, when a few
people walk up to you after the gig, telling you they enjoyed it, that's
a victory (IMHO) and worth doing it again.
-Jerry S.
-----Original Message-----
From: gcm19482002 [mailto:]
Sent: dinsdag 4 mei 2004 14:54
To:
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Outdoor gig
Underground Fire did our first gig this weekend at an outdoor Street
Fair. We set up right in the middle of the street with no bandshell,
stage, anything. We did not use a PA. I used a Fender Cyber Deluxe,
which is a 1x12 combo amp. In that venue, the depth and body
disappeared from my tone. It sounded high and thin. Is this typical
for a 1x12 cab? I have a Hot Rod Deluxe also, which has an external
speaker output. I'm thinking that for any future outdoor gigs, I'll
have to get another speaker cabinet and use that amp. What
configuration would be best (2x12, 4x12)? The other solution would
be to patch my amp through a PA to beef up the sound. Anybody with
experience in outdoor gigs have any input here? Thanks
Greg
.
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Bill Moffat (brine_iac_x) - 04 May 2004 10:42:18

Greg,
Bill here, guitarist from the other side of the drum kit.
Was my tone thin also? I was afraid that I wasn't going to push
enough air, that is why I brought the 2 x 10 hartke cab for the
external speaker. The Gibson Lancer is only 30 watts (specially loud
watts I might add), and with one Weber speaker, I was a little
underpowered for outdoors.
As I walked away from the frontline of amps, I thought the tone
improved.
Fender Twins are the way to go.
- Bill

Top

Marty Tippens (mctippens) - 04 May 2004 10:53:40

A 2 x 12 will be fine. Make sure it's 8 ohms.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: gcm19482002
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:53 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Outdoor gig
Underground Fire did our first gig this weekend at an outdoor Street
Fair. We set up right in the middle of the street with no bandshell,
stage, anything. We did not use a PA. I used a Fender Cyber Deluxe,
which is a 1x12 combo amp. In that venue, the depth and body
disappeared from my tone. It sounded high and thin. Is this typical
for a 1x12 cab? I have a Hot Rod Deluxe also, which has an external
speaker output. I'm thinking that for any future outdoor gigs, I'll
have to get another speaker cabinet and use that amp. What
configuration would be best (2x12, 4x12)? The other solution would
be to patch my amp through a PA to beef up the sound. Anybody with
experience in outdoor gigs have any input here? Thanks
Greg
.
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gcm19482002 - 04 May 2004 17:04:54

Bill,
Your amp sounded good to me. I do believe the extra speaker cab was
the key. A single speaker just gets lost in an open-air
environment. The other problem was how we set up with the guitars at
opposite ends and not being able to hear the other. We have to
figure that one out to, as we probably will do more outdoor gigs.
Greg

Top

gcm19482002 - 04 May 2004 17:09:20

Thanks, Marty.

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Paul (thepyronauts) - 04 May 2004 19:05:46

Underground Fire. Cool name!
When playing outside we find the most important thing is being able
to hear eachother. We have played outside probably a hundred times,
so we feel your pain. Set up against a wall if you can, if you
can't, try to position your amps behind the drummer, so he can hear,
and keep everything as close together as possible. When ever we
play spread out, it sucks, but when we get a little friendly with
eachother, it's a whole new world.
Paul The Pyronaut
(the pyronauts)

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Ran Mosessco (kick_the_reverb) - 04 May 2004 21:03:09

Regarding hearing eachother during the gig:
For bands with 2 guitarists, here's a little trick I came up with in my last
band, The Astroglides.
It helps the guitarists hear eachother, but most of all, it helps the crowd
get the full musical information regardless of the location (right, left or
center of stage).
Each of us had a twin reverb which we just used as a head. We each had a
4x12 cabinet that we were able to split into two 2x12.
So - I took my amp's speaker out and plugged it into half of my cab, and
plugged my external speaker outlet into the other guitarists half a cab.
He did the same, so each one of our amps was playing through a 2x12 at each
side of the stage. Or, if you look at it differentely, on each side of the
satge there was a 4x12 cab that played both the guitars.
The moment we started using this, not only were we able to hear eachother
well, we could also turn down the volume a little bit, and we stopped
getting complaints how the people at the sides of the stage were only
hearing half of the music.
We also insisted that at most places they would not mic our guitars (if they
had a PA) as that wasn't needed.
Of course it doesn't need to be 4x12 cabs, just any cab with "stereo"
inputs, or just use extra cabs (but then you'll be lugging more gear).
Hope this helps,
Ran
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:05 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Outdoor gig
> Underground Fire. Cool name!
>
> When playing outside we find the most important thing is being able
> to hear eachother. We have played outside probably a hundred times,
> so we feel your pain. Set up against a wall if you can, if you
> can't, try to position your amps behind the drummer, so he can hear,
> and keep everything as close together as possible. When ever we
> play spread out, it sucks, but when we get a little friendly with
> eachother, it's a whole new world.
>
> Paul The Pyronaut
> (the pyronauts)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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gcm19482002 - 04 May 2004 21:26:19

Thanks, Ran and Paul, for some good advice on outdoor gigs. Ran, I
had considered each of the guitar players bringing an extra amp which
would be hooked to the line out of the main amp and positioned next
to the other's amp. It does mean lugging more equipment, which I'm
not too fond of, so I didn't attempt it. We're in the process of
acquiring a PA to help with this problem as well as getting a better
spread of the sound. Any thoughts on speakers we should get? 12's
are lighter but 15's can carry bass better. BTW, there was no
problem hearing our bassist on Sunday. I appreciate your comments.
Greg

Top

Marty Tippens (mctippens) - 04 May 2004 22:08:48

Another solution that does not require extra cabinets or big 4x12 stereo
cabinets is to set up the way the Ventures did in the '60's with guitar, rhythm
guitar and bass all on one side of the drummer. My Planktones have done this and
works great.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: gcm19482002
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:26 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Outdoor gig
Thanks, Ran and Paul, for some good advice on outdoor gigs. Ran, I
had considered each of the guitar players bringing an extra amp which
would be hooked to the line out of the main amp and positioned next
to the other's amp. It does mean lugging more equipment, which I'm
not too fond of, so I didn't attempt it. We're in the process of
acquiring a PA to help with this problem as well as getting a better
spread of the sound. Any thoughts on speakers we should get? 12's
are lighter but 15's can carry bass better. BTW, there was no
problem hearing our bassist on Sunday. I appreciate your comments.
Greg
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Ran Mosessco (kick_the_reverb) - 04 May 2004 22:11:27

Hmm,
PA is a whole 'nother ball game. Conisder these points:
1. I heard about this rule of thumb - the 10 to 1. If your backline
equipment cost you $4,000, for example, plan on a $40,000 PA to sound
right...
2. Once you start micing the guitars, you'll notice that you need to mic
everything else (which will explain the 10 to 1 rule).
3. If you do decide to get a PA (and how is that less equipment to lug
around?), 12" drivers are normally used in the lower cost systems. Usually
the better ones come with 15" drivers. I know there are a few good compact
systems, but I stopped getting updated on live-sound PA systems for more
than a year, so I can't give any suggestions.
I wouldn't bother with Mackie or other consumer level products that are
hyped by guitar stores.
I think that if you just need more guitar sound (and you have no trouble
with drums and bass), the cheaper solution would be the extra cabinets or
extra amps.
Don't forget that if you're planning to mic the guitars you need
microphones, stands, cables, mixer, pa amp, pa speakers, pa speaker stands,
pa speaker cables. You also need to know where to place the mics so it will
sound the best. More headache for you.
Oh - I forgot - when you mic the amps, you usually need to turn down so the
mic won't distort, which completely changes the stage mix. So now you need
monitors...
These are just some of the many aspects of doing live sound, I hope it will
help you make your decisions. I'm no expert, but I have some experience with
playing live, without PA, with cheap PA, and with expensive PA, and I would
hate for you to blow your money on equipment that you might not need at this
time.
Good luck,
Ran
----- Original Message -----
From: "gcm19482002" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:26 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Outdoor gig
> Thanks, Ran and Paul, for some good advice on outdoor gigs. Ran, I
> had considered each of the guitar players bringing an extra amp which
> would be hooked to the line out of the main amp and positioned next
> to the other's amp. It does mean lugging more equipment, which I'm
> not too fond of, so I didn't attempt it. We're in the process of
> acquiring a PA to help with this problem as well as getting a better
> spread of the sound. Any thoughts on speakers we should get? 12's
> are lighter but 15's can carry bass better. BTW, there was no
> problem hearing our bassist on Sunday. I appreciate your comments.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Top

reverbrob - 05 May 2004 00:49:49

When you're playing outdoors, unless you're miking the amps into a
PA, there's really no substitute for lots of watts driving a good
amount of speaker surface area. I think the basic Twin Reverb pretty
much defines it: 85 tube watts into a couple 12" speakers. Or
possibly a single 15" speaker. Anything less and you're probably
gonna have to push the amp so hard that it won't sound very happy for
surf. And I think it's true that tube watts pack a lot more punch
than the same number of watts out of a solid state amp.
The Hot Rod Deluxe might work if you add a lot of speaker area to
it. One slick way to get a nice 2x12 cabinet is to buy the
Carvin "Legacy" 2x12 extension speaker cabinet (but NOT their cheaper
one). For $329 the Legacy gives you two Celestion Vintage 30's in a
nice tolex-covered box. It's an 8-ohm cabinet. I've had one for a
couple years now and have used it for many, many gigs with Showman
and Bandmaster heads. Very happy with it. If the Hot Rod could
power its internal speaker plus two more twelves, it would grab onto
a whole lot more air and I'd expect a much bigger sound. Just a
thought.
Rob Woolsey
Detonators
--- In , "gcm19482002"
<gregory.mcsulla@v...> wrote:
> Underground Fire did our first gig this weekend at an outdoor
Street
> Fair. We set up right in the middle of the street with no
bandshell,
> stage, anything. We did not use a PA. I used a Fender Cyber
Deluxe,
> which is a 1x12 combo amp. In that venue, the depth and body
> disappeared from my tone. It sounded high and thin. Is this
typical
> for a 1x12 cab? I have a Hot Rod Deluxe also, which has an
external
> speaker output. I'm thinking that for any future outdoor gigs,
I'll
> have to get another speaker cabinet and use that amp. What
> configuration would be best (2x12, 4x12)? The other solution
would
> be to patch my amp through a PA to beef up the sound. Anybody with
> experience in outdoor gigs have any input here? Thanks
>
> Greg

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